wacko

Personally, I don't see the problem with a player giving the finger (or similar) to fans who've been giving him massive stick all game. My personal favourite is Adebowale Ogungbure, who, after 90 minutes of hardcore East German racist abuse from the fans, gave them his finest Hitler 'tache and Nazi salute. It was not well received. Well played, sir.

Me, too. Very well articulated.

Yeah. UEFA went mental when the FA cow-towed to the EPL and sent the fourth-placed team ahead of the title holder. They had assumed that any national association would of course send the reigning champions (top spot in UEFA's list of qualifying teams is always for the title-holders). They scrambled to get us back in it and immediately changed the rules to say the title holder gets a CL place regardless. Of course, it didn't go so well for us after that.

Parky didn't qualify for Europe, either.

If only he weren't such a little shit

Rotten news re Lucas Also, there's finally an article with some actual information about the Suarez-Evra case, including from people who know what they're talking about. In particular, the FA are considering adding a fourth man to the panel with the specialist knowledge to judge the case reasonably, which I'm obviously very pleased about. And this: Consequently, I no longer think the "mate" argument will hold up. He may well be in for it, and not unjustly. At any rate, I really hope the FA do hire an actual expert and base their judgement his/her opinion. If that is what they do, I think it will come down to what context can be determined: "Do you need a white stick there, mate?" vs "Are you fucking blind, you stupid little n*****??" I don't know either way, but if he does cop a hefty ban, I guess he's got no real grounds for complaint if he used a word that can be "very offensive"...

You're right. Rafa should have concentrated all his resources on the league. 3rd or 4th spot is way better than winning the CL.

You know, I was totally wrong. Silence is much better than a minute's applause.

Quite likely.

His wife of 15 years said he wasn't depressed. Why won't anyone believe her? She's not qualified (to put the dampers on a good story).

Where did you hear that? Twitter. But it won't be clear how bad the injury is till he has a scan tomorrow.

It's absolutely despicable what the press get up to in the UK. The red tops long ago forgot the distinction between what is in the public interest and what interests the public. On top of that, you have a press "watchdog" that, just like the ratings agencies that essentially colluded in causing the financial crisis, is beholden to the people it's supposed to be monitoring for funds. And it would be utterly remiss to ignore the role of the British public in the whole affair. Nobody gave a flying fuck about tapping phones when it was celebrities and politicians (people who'd put themselves out there, and were therefore fair game). It was only when it came out that they'd been hacking into the phones of murder victims, dead servicemen and their families that there was any noticeable outrage. Until that came out, it would have been suicidal for any politician or police force to go up against the tabloids (which is why the police initially buried most of the evidence that came out during the royal phone-tapping scandal a few years back).

Truth will out. That's not to say we will understand why, but at some point we will probably know why.

I was listening to 606 all day Sunday. It was truly heart-wrenching. Fans from all over the country, regardless of team calling in to voice their praise for him. A Liverpool fan talking about what a pleasure it had been to drive around an Everton player; a Leeds fan who'd briefly spoken to Gary a year or so beforehand, but Gary had remembered his name and went back inside and got him some spare players' tickets for him and his six-year-old lad; and on and on. Story after story from all manner of fans and people in general talking about what a wonderful, wonderful man he was. Heart-breaking. That just means that there were no apparent indications of anything other than suicide. The reasons for his suicide are still TBD. I think we're all as shocked as each other.

Silence shows that you respect, revere or honour the person. As much as that is true of Speed, applause, chanting and singing show love. Silence was appropriate for the Queen Mum; Speed deserves 120dB.

Terrible tragedy. Not only was Speedo the consummate professional and a universally-respected footballer, but he was also the epitome of a decent human being. A tragic loss for all the people whose lives he touched, of which there are literally millions.

You have to wonder how much of it is sheer good luck and how much is down to the long hard look the DFB took at itself after the humiliation of Euro 2000. It's an astonishing generation of players.

The answer to your whole argument is found in the last line of the page you linked - to use "niggardly" is perfectly reasonable when used correctly, but you'd be fucking stupid to use that word rather than miserly or stingy. Indeed, if you're smart enough to have the word in your vocabulary then you're smart enough to know not to use it. By the same token, all your sea-lawyer shenanigans are just that because, even though there is truth to then connotations and usage of "negrito", there are dozens of other Uruguayan-Spanish words that could be used rather than one that could (would) be taken the wrong way by a black man. I agree. That's exactly how I see it. My contention is that the severest reasonable punishment for that is a slap on the wrist and a don't-do-it-again. Well, I am a foreigner in a strange land, and this kind of crap happens all the time. Not long since, my best mate had a *massive* barney with her husband, Marcel, after she'd been on the phone to her mum in Russia. They were talking about a visit to Russia, and it turns out "Marcel's coming" in Russian sounds and awful lot like "Marcel's an idiot" to a paranoid German. I repeatedly offended my ex's granny because a word I thought meant "great" means "wants to fuck" to anyone over 60; during a game of cards, a former colleague asked someone if they were good at wanking instead of shuffling; and I know a Dutchman who, when asked what he'd like for dinner, asked for "something that's been fucked".

Of course it has some weight, but not much: he doesn't actually speak Spanish. It's not about what's okay to say to friends and strangers, it's about the validity of judging things you don't actually understand. If you want to know if some Spanish is racist, you don't ask a Frenchman and a bunch of Brits. It's unfortunate that Evra was offended, and the FA could not entirely unreasonably forbid variations of the Spanish "negro" as racist going forward, but unless some experts on Spanish are saying it is racist, it isn't, regardless of how many non-Spanish speakers think it is.

It's no leap at all. But being absolutely believable is not the same as being almost certainly true, and that's an important distinction for a disciplinary body handing out punishments. The problem with the ambiguity of the word is that it has apparently only existed since English people started thinking about it. It does not seem to be ambiguous to Uruguayans because none of them are saying, "Yup, it's also derogatory." Until they are, then by finding Suarez guilty of greasy-dicked racism, the FA would be retroactively defining a foreign word. Which I personally find ridiculous.

I CAN'T HELP MYSELF

I'm absolutely certain that Suarez is a massive wind-up merchant and utter cunt on the pitch, and it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to learn that his comments were meant in the worst possible way. It's just that it's unclear enough that handing down a stiff punishment on that basis would be deeply unjust. But that's terribly shaky ground to be basing a ruling upon. The absolute essence of the matter is that what Evra (claims he) heard is not what Suarez (claims he) said, even though both agree on which word was used. And how can an English body be qualified to fairly and reasonably judge a Frenchman's interpretation of a South American Spanish word? Thats the way UK law is though in cases of discrimination etc I understand that it may slightly favour (for want of a better word) the victim, but here we have a victim who is kind of "clueless". Evra speaks French and Italian, so he'll sure understand a shitload of Spanish, including "negrito", but I doubt he'd be aware that it means "mate" or "darling" in some South American countries. That is to say, would he have perceived the word as racist if he were Uruguayan (or had lived in Uruguay) himself? Would Suarez have known this and said "negrito" knowing Evra would hear "little black man" (or worse)? The only sort of parallel I can think of, drunk as I am, is if I'd called a black person "niggardly", and he were unaware of the word or its etymology (i.e. it has nothing to do with the N-word) and had taken offense. It's more than ill-advised, but would, I think, be very unreasonable to punish. The sooner the better. This thread is doing my head in, and I CAN'T HELP MYSELF

Then you haven't understood what point I've been trying to make, or you simply don't understand the fact (yes, it's a fact) that your English sensibilities are not appropriate for judging Spanish. By all means, form an opinion for yourself, but it is not an appropriate basis for handing out punishments. Why do you think the police are charging Terry but not Suarez? Seriously, why do you think that is when Suarez has confirmed he said exactly what Evra accused him of saying? Is that not a confession? I'd love to hear your answer.

I'm afraid I don't know the details, to be honest. I've seen the video, and I think it's fairly unequivocal what he says. What I don't know is where he's standing in relation to other players, or whether Ferdinand (or anyone else for that matter) heard him (although I'm not sure that matters). Have any of the other players said anything? Are there any other videos? In common with the Suarez incident, I wouldn't put it past either of the players to have done it on purpose (though I honestly didn't think Terry would be stupid enough to shout something like that across the pitch). But Terry can't play the lost-in-translation card like Suarez. Unless there are seriously mitigating circumstances, he's got to cop for some significant punishment. You can't be shouting "fucking black cunt" across a football pitch in the EPL and get away with it. If the situations are as I have described (Suarez called Evra "negrito", Terry called Ferdinand a "fucking black cunt"), I'd say throw the book at Terry and a slap on the wrist for Suarez, plus the promise to throw the whole fucking library at him if he ever says it again. You can only rule based on the established facts of the case, and what Terry said is as unequivocal as what Suarez said is nuanced (from an English speaker's perspective).