Dr Venkman

Nah, I've come to terms with the fact I'm not going to change anyone's opinion. I am coming close to leaving the forum though, but I don't know where I'd get my football chat from. Don't do that! You'll never change the opinions of people who are blindly ignorant. People should be able to accept other people's points of view without being abusive towards others (which some tools in here can't seem to achieve*), but don't leave on their sake otherwise they think they win. I joined yesterday? Already seem to disagree with many, despise a few, but importantly; agree with some. *Joey Barton in a top-hat, smiley Asian man, kingkerrookiedingdong ...right

Nah, I've come to terms with the fact I'm not going to change anyone's opinion. I am coming close to leaving the forum though, but I don't know where I'd get my football chat from. Champion. You've obviously backed yourself into a corner with your earlier views, so will continue to be contrary for the sake of it. Inochi, I don't personally think that Ian W's views are that far wrong (or at least a good chunk of them), although he does sometimes blindly stick to them no matter what, but I'm sure that is just to counteract the over-the-top reactions in the other direction. All in all, I'm of the opinion that both Barton and Ashley / Llambias are to blame. Barton for acting like a complete tool, and MA/DL for doing what they did. On the Pardew point, I'm still unsure of what he has actually done wrong in the eyes of supporters really, and whether he is simply "guilty by association". I'm sure he wouldn't have wanted to lose Barton, Nolan, Carroll etc specifically and I believe he doesn't have a say. His job is to pick the team and the odd incoming player, and if I judge him on that, I can't see how he's done such a bad job as some on here would make out. if i coud just answer on the pardew point. he's willingly been a part of an operation to cut costs and any semblance of ambition from the club. personally i'd quite like to see us have a go at being as successful as we can, and i dont think top 6 is out of the question. we wont ever try and achieve anything like that under ashley, pardew knows it and took the job on those terms. for that he's as much a money grabbing scumbag as any player you'd care to mention imo. You're not wrong, except that I do believe he would prefer to have lowered the costs without losing these specific players (i.e. got rid of the likes of Smith). I brought it up on here last night, but it's pretty clear he took the job knowing that he'd have to lower operating costs, but so will any future manager under Ashley, so what's the point in judging him on that? Every other manager we would get would be working under the same conditions. It just seems like you (not specifically you, but some people) may as well just get behind him and support him on the football side of things... which he's actually been pretty good at so far. Which is why it was quite mis-leading to say every penny of the 35m will be re-invested in the squad. from the mouth piece of the club owners that admitted to mis-leading fans, it's no surprise. 'no manager reveals the exact truth about what's going on'. certainly not, but only a few club owners are so rotten they end up in court because of it.

Nah, I've come to terms with the fact I'm not going to change anyone's opinion. I am coming close to leaving the forum though, but I don't know where I'd get my football chat from. Champion. You've obviously backed yourself into a corner with your earlier views, so will continue to be contrary for the sake of it. Inochi, I don't personally think that Ian W's views are that far wrong (or at least a good chunk of them), although he does sometimes blindly stick to them no matter what, but I'm sure that is just to counteract the over-the-top reactions in the other direction. All in all, I'm of the opinion that both Barton and Ashley / Llambias are to blame. Barton for acting like a complete tool, and MA/DL for doing what they did. On the Pardew point, I'm still unsure of what he has actually done wrong in the eyes of supporters really, and whether he is simply "guilty by association". I'm sure he wouldn't have wanted to lose Barton, Nolan, Carroll etc specifically and I believe he doesn't have a say. His job is to pick the team and the odd incoming player, and if I judge him on that, I can't see how he's done such a bad job as some on here would make out. if i coud just answer on the pardew point. he's willingly been a part of an operation to cut costs and any semblance of ambition from the club. personally i'd quite like to see us have a go at being as successful as we can, and i dont think top 6 is out of the question. we wont ever try and achieve anything like that under ashley, pardew knows it and took the job on those terms. for that he's as much a money grabbing scumbag as any player you'd care to mention imo. You're not wrong, except that I do believe he would prefer to have lowered the costs without losing these specific players (i.e. got rid of the likes of Smith). I brought it up on here last night, but it's pretty clear he took the job knowing that he'd have to lower operating costs, but so will any future manager under Ashley, so what's the point in judging him on that? Every other manager we would get would be working under the same conditions. It just seems like you (not specifically you, but some people) may as well just get behind him and support him on the football side of things... which he's actually been pretty good at so far. first of all i completely support him on the football side of things, just like i supported souness and allardyce. i think he's an utter, utter idiot for making Taylor 1st choice instead of Williamson but that doesnt mean i dont want him to do well. whether he prefers to lower the costs by removing smith or tiote is irrelevant really isnt it, he has no say, and he knows it. i'd even go so far as to state he's here specifically to have no say, his role is 'dont question anything, say what we tell you, pick the team'. in that ashley and derek have made life significantly easier for themselves. i judge him on taking the job on lowering operating costs because it's counter productive for the club, ashley's gambling on our league performance for long term profit and advertising space. that's not the way the club should be run and pardew is a massive part of it, just as any other manager would be if they'd taken the job.

yeah ian shouldnt go anywhere, he can actually string a sentence together

Nah, I've come to terms with the fact I'm not going to change anyone's opinion. I am coming close to leaving the forum though, but I don't know where I'd get my football chat from. Champion. You've obviously backed yourself into a corner with your earlier views, so will continue to be contrary for the sake of it. Inochi, I don't personally think that Ian W's views are that far wrong (or at least a good chunk of them), although he does sometimes blindly stick to them no matter what, but I'm sure that is just to counteract the over-the-top reactions in the other direction. All in all, I'm of the opinion that both Barton and Ashley / Llambias are to blame. Barton for acting like a complete tool, and MA/DL for doing what they did. On the Pardew point, I'm still unsure of what he has actually done wrong in the eyes of supporters really, and whether he is simply "guilty by association". I'm sure he wouldn't have wanted to lose Barton, Nolan, Carroll etc specifically and I believe he doesn't have a say. His job is to pick the team and the odd incoming player, and if I judge him on that, I can't see how he's done such a bad job as some on here would make out. if i coud just answer on the pardew point. he's willingly been a part of an operation to cut costs and any semblance of ambition from the club. personally i'd quite like to see us have a go at being as successful as we can, and i dont think top 6 is out of the question. we wont ever try and achieve anything like that under ashley, pardew knows it and took the job on those terms. for that he's as much a money grabbing scumbag as any player you'd care to mention imo.

agreed, i'd say we're under-prepared for the season. which one's more important? (i know the window's still open but if we're talking purely in terms of the benefit of these deals)

You're arguing a point which is 2 years out of date. We were relegated and had to cut costs and that's behind us now. Yes, we still have the debt but that debt is supposed to be an interest free loan from the owner who we are told has no intention of taking any money out of the club, which is a lie anyway as he already has taken money out. We're now in a situation where we have cut our costs and have started on a recovery and we need to invest to sustain the recovery, not cut costs. This is the most reasonable argument on that side. The question is where should the balance be. The problem, and where football is different to other businesses, is that it's very difficult to equate investment with return. In manufacturing, I know if I invest enough to make 100 more things, I get a certain profit on those things. Football has no such guarantees. Do you agree that it looks like Ashley does not really care where we finish, as long as its not the bottom 3? That it looks likely the club is not being ran with progression on the field on mind, instead to keep things ticking over with PL status and reducing the wage bill until a buyer comes in? I think he would like to achieve whatever success he can within the limits he has now decided on. So yes, he only wants success if he can do it quite cheaply. Whether it has anything to do with selling I'm not sure, I just think he has decided he wants to limit the amount he has to subsidise us by. I think it's unlikely he will find a buyer in the near future - if he does 20 or 30 million here or there won't make any difference to them anyway. So yes, sadly finance does come before footballing progress with him, I can't deny that. And we're not going to get success on the cheap (sensible investment perhaps!), so the club is just standing still as long as he's there. He's an irrisposible owner, just as one is if they let the club go bust too. Well, when I say "cheap" I mean acquiring the kind of players we already have. Often for below their market value. I think progress is possible under Ashley, though less likely than if he would spend more. Say we have an usually good season and finish in the top 8, it would only take another couple of decent players to establish us at that level. Yes we are relying on some luck, but there's a lot of that in football if you can't build a Man City-style team. he wont do it though, he wont capitalise on a good season despite his lack of investment and planning, just like he wont capitalise on getting 'silly money' for a player we could do with right now. his attitude to finishing 8th would be, how much did that cost us? right, can we do it for 75%?

it'll be injuries that'll fuck us this year, along with Ba and Tiote gone for 6 weeks in the new year we'll take about 2 points

eurgh, what are you on about? Bobby clearly had the best interests of the club at heart, in every respect.

Ben Arfa, cabaye, Ba, Marveaux? DUH! Most of them unproven in the PL! Ba has onyl played 12 games, ffs. And if they joined on the promise of the club pushing on and showing ambition, what do you think will happen next year when hopefully we've managed to stay clear of relegation (which is looking likely)? They will be off quicker than s*** off a shovel. Side point but every player in the entire league was 'unproven in the PL' as some point. Think people place too much on this. There's always an excuse. Their always injured and so they aren't good signings! They're unporven in the league! They're Frencch bottlers! They don't have enough passion! Boring. There's plenty examples of players moving about within the league and not being successful at their new clubs, which is what I think people overlook. As a high profile example look at Torres. Exactly. Here's another thing that gets me. Players being written off, because they haven't set the world alight from the outset. See our very own Coloccini and Enrique. It's all related. Jump on any Liverpool forum and they're all clamouring for Aquilani to stay now, as he's been exceptional in pre-season. It was unreal to me how quickly he was written off by their fans and the media when he first arrived. No surprise to hear that idiot McKay playing the "Barton has the grit and guts those predominantly foreign teams don't have" card. People buy into this stuff. surely you can see how nufc fans that have been paying attention would be a little bit wary of anything that represents a gamble?

So it hasn't been coinfirmed, thanks. No it hasn't been "coin"firmed if you are talking legal jargon. I'm not sure what coinfirmed even means unless you are writing with a New Jersey accent. hang your head in shame

not everyone

Most clubs don't have a loose cannon like Joey Barton in their team, surrounded in controversy all-year-round. Most clubs don't have 4 others openly backing up the so called loose cannon and years of evidence of a club run by idiots

Cheers. it's a good post, its been blindingly obvious for years and was absolutely rubber stamped when hughton was fucked off and pardew brought in. the only way to affect things is to stop as much revenue as possible and hope he cuts his losses, but the risks are many. horrible, horrible situation. made all the worse by supporters of nufc still trying to tell us all that he's not taking the piss and not only in it for the eventual profit and advertising space.

Ceased to broadcast a while ago! Well fucking Men and Motors then!!! UK Conquest!

He's not average. Of course he is. He has no pace, lacks stamina and doesn't score many goals. He's a decent set piece taker and has good passing skills but in general he's a very limited player. He was performing well in a side that was at times perfect for him. so was kevin nolan, shame we cashed in on the guy that made these two look good.

Fair's probably not the best term for it. If he wanted to go there he could just as easily have handed in a transfer request rather than opening a twitter account to spread s**** and lower the fee for the club that's tapping him up. Care to explain why, if he was so desperate to go as is claimed, there was any need for the Twitter bollocks (or a transfer request), when the club were trying to sell him anyway? I've asked this about 10 times in this thread and still not had a decent answer. If we were so eager to sell, why we letting him go for free? to get him off the wage bill? just as golfmag predicted?

Fair's probably not the best term for it. If he wanted to go there he could just as easily have handed in a transfer request rather than opening a twitter account to spread shite and lower the fee for the club that's tapping him up. and if we wanted to keep him we could've given him a fair contract this summer. we dont want to keep him because we dont want to pay what he's worth as a footballer, again. At the moment it looks like no one else wants to pay him what he's worth either unless they get him on a free. If he's all that you would have thought these mega clubs would have stumped up the odd million or so it would have took to buy him rather than resort to getting him to play up and reduce the fee to nowt. Tron, why do you always need your mind made up for you on a player depending on which club they sign for? I can make up my own mind and Barton wide right is absolute quality. By your logic, all our players are automatically shit by virtue of playing for us. My view on Barton is the same as it's always been. He's a decent player for a mid table premier team. I'd be happy for him to be here in the right circumstances but I don't think he needs a contract for life to stay here. He wasn't so great in central midfield and if we lose him out wide we have an option to bring in someone with a bit more pace. These players aren't superstars, they are decent at best. The real issue is whether we will actually replace them, and that's where I have my doubts. so we have an option to bring in someone better if we lose him, but you doubt we will? in that case is it a good idea to make him available for free?

you what? because we want the club to hang onto it's best players for f***s sake I think we should hang on to Barton too, in an ideal world he and the board would have come to an agreement that suited both, that didnt happen, Barton has not handled himself well IMO. People seem to think he's been treated badly, yet nobody has come out in defence of Smith, surely if Barton is being treated badly then so is Smith. The crux of a lot of peoples arguments in this thread is that the club have acted badly towards Barton, I'm guilty of that too as the club could have acted way better than they have but like many others I've been willing to forget the fact that Smith has been treated in the same way, all because he's been shit for us. i couldnt give a flying fuck about joey barton or his emo smiths twitter posts. i care about nufc acquiring and keeping hold of good players rather than cheap ones above all else. Smith's been treated exactly as he should have been, as a shit past it footballer who's not worth anything. Barton's been treated the same way, why?

Fair's probably not the best term for it. If he wanted to go there he could just as easily have handed in a transfer request rather than opening a twitter account to spread shite and lower the fee for the club that's tapping him up. and if we wanted to keep him we could've given him a fair contract this summer. we dont want to keep him because we dont want to pay what he's worth as a footballer, again. At the moment it looks like no one else wants to pay him what he's worth either unless they get him on a free. If he's all that you would have thought these mega clubs would have stumped up the odd million or so it would have took to buy him rather than resort to getting him to play up and reduce the fee to nowt. first of all players have a different worth to each club, we need him more than arsenal do for example, so no-one bidding for him doesnt necessarily mean he's not 'all that'. i dont know about you but i dont need arsene wenger or harry redknapp to tell me he was a very important player for us last season. we'll soon see who is or isnt interested in him anyway. we could have paid him what he's worth without paying a fee for him either you know. as it stands it's another high earner off the books without a passing thought for how it will affect the team.

ours do. why? what's the link?

Fair's probably not the best term for it. If he wanted to go there he could just as easily have handed in a transfer request rather than opening a twitter account to spread shite and lower the fee for the club that's tapping him up. and if we wanted to keep him we could've given him a fair contract this summer. we dont want to keep him because we dont want to pay what he's worth as a footballer, again.

you what? because we want the club to hang onto it's best players for fucks sake

why? Can't pass, can't take corners, can't take free-kicks. Gobs off all day long on Twitter, and disputes the managers decisions. Previously convicted of behaviour such as stabbing cigars in teammates eyes & punching people on the training ground. Why would you? because i think he's a very good footballer

why?