Andy

It was the standard Murphy performance really, mostly cack and frustrating on the ball, but one of our only goal threats.

True to an extent, but also, not helped by his own lack of energy and application. He didn't struggle with Burn at fullback against Benfica and USG for example and seemed to raise his game massively, so it isn't the only issue at play here. A few people in the match thread said it looks like he's saving himself for the big Champions League shop window matches, and that's unfortunately hard to look beyond given how bad he's been by comparison in the league.

You're right but it would be a surprise if the thread wasn't active today mind, this was easily our worst performance under Howe and also his own worst performance with the subs/tactical mess he made as the game went on, almost every decision was bizarre. This wasn't just another loss that people are jumping on, there was legitimate cause for criticism and discussion today.

Our entire system is struggling due to Burn being at LB as it did a couple of years back before Tino slotted in there. Either the entire defensive line drops back to accommodate for his lack of pace, or Botman has to keep coming across to cover for him. People will take this as criticism of Burn as they did back then, but it's not, it's just damning on the recruitment that our only other backup left back is our first choice right back.

He has but surely at some point you have to start looking to the future. Botman and Thiaw have to remain the first choice partnership for me. If it's Burn and Thiaw fair enough but what I don't want to see is Burn shoehorned in by going to 3 centre halves for example. Didn't think Botman was particularly bad today apart from the OG, which actually came from Burn's error at fullback.

How he handles Dan Burn when everyone is fit is going to be the decisive one for me. He's escaped having to make that decision so far for the most part.

All of our wingers in particular have the exact same thought, which is to immediately turn and try to run beyond the opposition full back as soon as we have possession either in midfield or with our own full backs. This is a huge factor in why we struggle to control the game, as often the only out-ball we have is either over the top/an incisive pass down the touchline (most of which just find their way back to the opposition), or through the centre where we immediately get pressed.

This is a problem that I'd like to see Howe solve, we really struggle as soon as we lose our energy and physicality since we have no ability to control a game, especially when we go ahead. We'll never grow as a club and compete at the highest level consistently if we can't solve the problem of playing multiple fixtures in a week, it isn't sustainable to think we can just qualify for the CL every other season and build like that, while basically throwing the league campaign while we're there.

Or maybe the performance was just awful, even worse than every other sub-par away performance this season, and it's cause for concern and worthy of debate? Just because there is more discussion after a defeat, doesn't mean people want Howe out. It's obvious there will be more to say in this scenario.

While the general point you're making is fair, there are obviously going to be more bones to chew through after an abject performance like that compared to a routine win, especially when he clearly had an off-day himself with his changes.

That Brentford away performance looked like how we played in the cup final compared to today.

Difficult to judge Barnes as he was subbed on when we were already catastrophic, he should've replaced Gordon at half time. Ramsey isn't the answer for me, I have no idea what he brings to the table at all, but he also replaced the wrong man, it should've been Joelinton off. I don't think the people clamouring for subs were asking for the changes that we saw.

Good chance that after tomorrow night there'll be less points between us and 19th than between us and the mackems. Quite a sobering thought. This match needs to be a serious wake up call, if we don't improve massively we'll end up looking over our shoulder this season. This was the worst performance of the season by far, but the signs of this have been there in previous games.

And if so is he available on a free?

He was for the first goal.

You can still get a feel for what kind of player he is though, and he was also largely the same for Villa after a promising debut season.

Ramsey neglecting the forward pass to Barnes in favour of a three yard pass to Tonali, then falling over after being blown on. Not impressed by him at all.

Ramsey looks a bit of a nothing player to me so far. Can't see what he offers other than "is tidy".

Based on previous subs, I'm guessing Elanga on for Pope.

Wish they'd just given that goal so I could switch it off in a rage.

I've been dismissive of this kind of comment in previous seasons when we've been off form, but we do look like a midtable side at the moment. The lack of goal threat is concerning enough, but what's more worrying is the complete lack of attacking patterns. It's hard to see what we're trying to achieve when we go forward.

That's exactly what it looks like. He's playing at half mast today at best.

Too many players are playing like they have their eye on Wednesday night. Bruno, Joelinton and Gordon in particular are just jogging around and playing with absolutely no energy or intent whatsoever.

Why did Burn push out there when AWB was clearly overlapping? Bizarre decision.

Frustrating that we're suddenly playing higher up the pitch and getting our foot on the ball again. The constant dropping off when we're winning is massively frustrating.