Raconteur

It's very difficult to answer that question without being accused of being a revisionist. Anyone who says "I had reservations at the time for reasons x, y and z" is immediately assumed to be lying to make themselves look prophetic...

My memory might be failing me, but didn't Roeder go to the Amsterdam Tournament, where Martins (by all accounts) was impressive? Of course, correct me if I'm wrong...

Was actually thinking of those "two footed" claims as I watched the game - um... NO! He's very left-footed. I've said that I think he's down on confidence (or weighed down by expectation), and as his game gets on song then he will become more confident about using his right...

Quick, call Anal Oliver - the Sib is revealed to be only 25

Thought I'd sign on for the Martins appreciation society, having defended him more than once already... I felt today that his only real problem is composure - as was said in the match thread he seems to fluctuate between snatching at chances or taking too long to settle himself. There's a kind of nervous desperation about Martins, but it's a better state of mind than another nameless "striker" on our books

Lentini was a gun player too - but now he's a trivia question If memory serves Milan paid that fee the same season Roy Keane became the record British transfer for about a quarter of Lentini's fee...

Wow, I've ignored this thread for a while - glad to see some progress has been made on the debate! tongue.gif I don't think this point has been made often enough - it isn't a coincidence that he has looked a different player without Shearer beside him! Now, this argument, on the other hand, isn't so great, because it could also be applied to Shambles bluedead.gif Oh, and alpal was talking about why we didn't sell Luque in the summer - was the rumour that he rejected a move (either because of wages or didn't fancy the club making the offer) one of those summer-gossip-bollock stories? I'm pretty sure a story like that was posted here...?

I don't think you're giving the man enough credit - if there's one man who can make manure smell like perfume, it's our good friend Anal

DISCLAIMER: Yes, I'm an Aussie I can't believe there were people advocating Mido but don't want Big Dukes? This is a big target man with excellent technique, whose game is tailor made for a quick striker and scores some cracking goals himself... I know the criticisms - he's fat, prone to laziness, doesn't score enough... Trust me, I've seen him turn in some shocking shifts for Australia. But I said when we were looking at Angel earlier in the summer that Viduka would be a better option, and I stick with it. He's not going to take us into the top four, but as a "panic buy" we could do far worse (as long as we're not paying more than 3m)

Nope - BBC reports he's taking over after that game... http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/s/sunderland/5290778.stm

God no - see, I know that I don't know enough to be involved in this debate, I just had one tiny question relating to one particular statement... As you were, gents

I hesitate to get involved in this discussion, but didn't Sir Bobby make claims to that effect in his autobiography?

Not to mention Milner and O'Brien in a pinch...

Don't tar us all with the same brush

I've got a feeling you're talking about me here, so I thought I'd reproduce a few pertinent points - Sorry for the very long post, but I am not going to be considered a supporter of your views SLK

That's not a very good example really - as you said he'd just beaten two (three?) players and was a mere ten yards from goal when he took the shot, as almost every player would... Now, both you and I are splitting hairs, trying to get inside the heads of players. You're of the opinion that our players were too selfish to pass to Luque, I'm of the opinion they (especially Duff) were happy to pass to anyone except Luque because they don't trust him - and the fact is both could be true and neither can be proved Plus there's the small fact we both got up at 4.30am to watch our team fail to score despite 30+ attempts at goal - something which doubtless put us in a grumpy and uncharitable mood

We'll have to disagree on the bold bit... And I noticed that while you seized upon my "poor first touch" remark you ignored "poor positioning, poor effort off the ball and apparent disinterest"...?

What I saw was a team who simply didn't trust him enough to give him the ball - and with his poor positioning, poor effort off the ball, poor first touch and apparent disinterest, I can't really blame them... I raised the question of whether Duff was too hungry in the post-match thread, but upon further reflection it's easily understandable... Imagine you yourself are playing in a free role in a Sunday League, and the guy playing up front is someone you know is going to let the ball roll past him, or bounce of his shins, you'd stop passing it to him, right? And try to do it all yourself? You can't keep passing it to him in the hope he'll get it right sooner or later... As far as I could see Duff did seem a bit hungry at times, but he linked up with other players, just not Luque...

I thought it was funny people in the match thread saying "Oooh, he's cup tied now, he must be staying" Bollocks to that - what club playing in Europe would want him on tonight's showing DISCLAIMER: hyberbole...

Gee Knightrider, I'd hate for it to be Hitzfeld My money is on Curbishley myself...

You sure can write, sir

Can we stop this Bellamy jizzfest too? Or is it being naughty to suggest that? Personally, I think this Bellamy wank-a-thon is part of the "Hate Souness" mentality we all have. The lad played well for us, but there's no need to put him on a pedestal just because he "stood up to" Souness. Just because Souness was a cunt doesn't make Bellamy a saint!!! It's 2006/07 - he's a Liverpool player and a loathsome toad who bitches, sooks and moans on a level no one else comes close to - why isn't he a hate figure for Christ's sake?!?

<b>Where will we finish?</b> 6th-8th <b>Will Roeder still be our manager in January?</b> Certainly, no fear <b>Which of our younger/fringe players (if any) will make a name for himself this season and why?</b> I'm hoping Huntington comes back from loan and steps up... I can't see Pattison or O' Brien getting enough chances to shine <b>Will Dyer play more than 5 games for us this season?</b> Yes, and hopefully he can contribute to the cause for a change too! <b>Will Shola score more goals than he did last season?</b> Please God yes, because if he doesn't we're screwed <b>Will we get to see the real Albert Luque or will he continue to disappoint?</b> I can't see him getting the chance to shine - most likely shipped out in January <b>Who will be the star of our defence ('keeper included)?</b> Given of course, Babayaro to win a few over with improved performances <b>And midfield?</b> Duff - quality <b>And up front?</b> Martins? <b> How many new players will we sign before the close of this transfer window?</b> One or two - Martins and maybe Bridge. I think Gravesen is a dead deal <b>And how many will leave?</b> Boumsong shipped out unlamented <b>How many times will "Shearer-Shearer" be chanted this season?</b> Too many times... Though once would be too often <b>Who will flop for us this season?</b> I've got this fear the Zog will have a case of the second season blues, and I can see Nobby fading badly <b>Who will outshine all others?</b> Duff and Given <b>Will Owen make an appearance before the season is over?</b> Same as last year, maybe a game or two at the end for morale purposes <b>Will an attendance drop below the 50,000 mark for a league game for the first time since SJP was rebuilt?</b> Hmmm... couldn't say for certain. I surely hope not <b>Will we go the season without any off-field dramas/headlines of the name through mud variety?</b> mackems.gif More chance of Shola winning the European Golden Boot and an England call up! <b>Will we win something this year?</b> Would be a foolish man that tipped us, but you never can tell in the cups... If we're lucky <b>How far in all the cups, then?</b> UEFA - 3rd round, League Cup - straight out, FA Cup 5th round <b>Nicky Butt - will he win you over?</b> I'll go with the "Roeder: clean slate" line (as I wasn't in cardiff ) <b>Will we miss Shearer this season?</b> His goalscoring or his presence in the changeroom? Nay to the former, aye to the latter <b>Are you excited about the new season?</b> Of course - if you're not excited at the start of the season why bother? Just because we're not I'd like us to be is no reason to go into the new season all gloom and doom!

That's what it comes down to really - we're not in a good way, especially if we don't sign a striker, but there is some real crap below us... And as for thinking we are "too good to go down", well, even our present squad would have to be decimated by injuries AND in poor form for us to come third last in a league containing the likes of Reading, Sheffield United, Watford, Charlton, Fulham, Wigan, Villa, Citeh and Everton... In my opinion, of course...

Champions: Chelsea 2nd 3rd 4th: Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs Where will we finish: 6th Relegation: Watford, Fulham, Reading Top scorer: Shevchenko