KaKa

36 minutes ago, macphisto said:

This is the biggest myth in football, it virtually does guarantee success; just look at the Premier League, FA Cup and Champions League most seasons. Even when you have a poor manager, no strategy and are considered to be having a very poor season like Man U, being in 6th place  is still successful in comparison to nearly every other club. I'd also argue that it wouldn't take Man U for example much to make them into a competitive team again. 

 

Closer to home, the most successful team we had in living memory as Newcastle fans is when we spent a lot of money under Keegan. 

 

Yes, you can get someone like Leicester winning the League with minimum spend or Everton spending  a lot and being in trouble but they are both very much exceptions to the rule. Spending money is by far the surest way to win something in football and is indeed becoming almost the only way to do it, certainly on a consistent basis. In my time, I've seen Leeds, Arsenal and possibly Spurs touted as models to follow in regards to buying young players to develop and it never materialised. You could even say the same about Newcastle and the team under Robson.

 

I'm not arguing against smart recruitment, which is why I mentioned Rob Lee, but you also have to spend big at times. Also, a strange perspective on signing a Haaland-type player, looking at what he would bring commercially rather than what he would contribute to the team. They would only be commercially successful if they were successful on the pitch. 

 

It's great where Arsenal, Wolves and West Ham are in the league but that is not the stated ambitions of our owners "to be the best at football and challenge for trophies." 

 

Internally within the club I'd like to think they'd be looking to compete with West Ham and Wolves next season if we make some good signings in the summer, bouncing around between 6th to 10th place. To do that will still involve a decent expenditure in the summer time.

 

If we do finish between 6th and 10th and want to seriously challenge those above us after the summer of 2023 then it would be unavoidable that we'll have to spend big money.

 

I don't know why so many people have such a problem wanting to spend a lot of money. No one cared when we did it under Keegan which for 99% of fans who lived through those times is by far the best time supporting the club.

Spending big does not guarantee success at all. Having the right manager, good recruitment and spending in the right areas is what is needed. Money needs to be spent, but it needs to be done correctly more importantly, and not just spending big. Look at the state of the current Everton team for goodness sake. They have spent incredible amounts irresponsibly and are in a complete mess for it.

Your initial post was talking about players in the £100 million bracket ... I mean are you serious? If you think we can't compete unless we're buying players in that bracket, that is ridiculous IMO.

1 minute ago, Holmesy said:

Intelligent scouting is the key. Bruno cost around £30m - a Brazilian international CM for relative peanuts. Trippier cost us around £12m

If players of that calibre are available for that sort of money, you don't need to spend £100m+ per player to compete. When we get to the point where we need to boost commercial revenue by signing big names, we might need to cough up big for a Haaland-type but I think we can break into the top 6 with a relatively modest spend (and by relatively modest i'm talking £100-150m). Breaking into the top 4 might take a bit more but then look at Arsenal - their squad isn't amazing and they sit in 4th spot. Most of their star players have come through their youth ranks. Wolves have also built a quality squad through good scouting and great links in Portugal, and not buying other club's ready-made stars.  

 

 

Exactly!

1 hour ago, macphisto said:

Interesting article in the Athletic about what players would go for now. Shearer is estimated to be worth £222 million and Les Ferdinand is £67 million. Personally think it would be nearer £170 million for Shearer and £100 million for Ferdinand.

 

Main reason for bringing this up is that it highlights how much we'll have to spend to compete again. Yes, you can try to find your modern day equivalents of Rob Lee but we will have to start spending big sooner rather than later if we are to meet the stated ambitions of the owners. That's why I think talk of a £50 million budget is laughable.

 

 

 

Spending big doesn't guarantee anything.

6 minutes ago, Scoot said:

 

So what is it?

It's all over the last few pages man.

The main issue is his work rate defensively in the current pressing setup, not how much stuff doesn't come off. I think all that would be far more palatable if he was more committed to the work the team does when they don't have the ball. It looks particularly bad when he's just lost it and then stays down sat on the pitch moaning at the ref while the team is then having to defend without him.

29 minutes ago, Scoot said:

People have to remember he's one of those players that treads a fine line between being brilliant and a match winner or not having a very good game. People have to accept because of the way he plays, it's not always going to come off.

To be fair that's not really the issue being brought up with him in the main.

12 minutes ago, TRon said:

Pogba's a fantastic player for the right club but I think those who said he's more suited to the continent are right. It's not that he can't handle the pace of the PL, I just don't think he can be arsed. He always looks so much better playing for France. I love watching him play, but I don't think he's a NUFC player, his head always seems to be turning wherever he is. Plus he looks much less effective with a bald head.

18 minutes ago, Chris_R said:

I find it genuinely risible and ridiculous that anyone would even contemplate wanting our most skillful and most creative player out of the team. It's just laughable. 

That's because you're not actually paying attention to what anyone is saying, but instead just getting overly emotional about a player you like being criticized for things he clearly needs to improve on.

It's not like anyone on here is saying anything new either. This has been ASM's issue his whole career. It's the reason why he was sold from Nice, despite arguably being their most talented player at the time. However, Vieira is a complete no nonsense manager, and didn't appreciate ASM's lateness for training and efforts on the pitch. 

With the likes of Mike Ashley and Bruce here, and therefore with limited funds and a basic tactical approach, then ASM worked a treat and was absolutely vital for us. Now with the takeover and the direction Howe is going in, probably not so much, and it's all up to ASM really, because going forward there will be money to bring in other skilful and creative players that can do the work the manager requires for his setup, as that is no longer going to be a problem.

39 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

See:

 

Ah, missed that. Fair enough

11 minutes ago, LRD said:

How in the world is that Chronicle site so bad?

I refuse to go on there, despite occasionally wanting to check out some of their stuff 

I mean ... is it that they just don't know that at this point it's probably costing them a ton of traffic? So weird.

16 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Central Midfielders shouldn’t be judged by goals and assists. 
 

 

Im not living or dying by Pogba. I think mentality is #1 but will let the football people decide on that.  
 

 

I think we need to be aggressive in the transfer market. It’s a rich, difficult league. I look at West Ham, £30m £120k on Zouma. Good business.  Dan Burn is an excellent character but there’s a quality gap to Zouma. They’re going to finish 7-8th.  
 

You can fill a squad with Matt Targett’s for 15m-30m 80k per week and finish 11th.  

Don't think anyone has mentioned goals and assists in relation to Pogba. He just hasn't been very good in general, and is constantly in and out of the Man U team because of it.

There's a huge range of players out there. Not going for the likes of Pogba, doesn't mean we are going to be filling the team with players at the level of Burn and Targett.

I think we'll get really good players in that are far more consistent and also on the way up rather than on the downturn like Pogba seems to be.

21 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

My question with transfers is - is he good enough and has the right attitude to help get us into the Champions League? If yes, get them in. 
 

If his wages are 350-400k on a year deal that’s £70m. That’s maybe £10m more than Bruno G over 3 years.  

I'm really glad we don't seem to be going with that sort of approach.

Pogba has been terribly inconsistent for years now, with lots of different managers, and in teams with players much better than ours currently are.

With that current Man United team he's struggling to get them in the Champions League, and so no idea why you think he'd do that at Newcastle.

He'd also be paid a fortune too, which would be such a waste because he just wouldn't justify the outlay.

Think it would be a horrid move. I see him joining PSG and all their other highly paid players so they can have an easy time in Ligue 1 without having to over exert themselves much, and then get knocked out of the Champions League every year.

17 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

there’s a lot of talented players available for free that I think we should heavily consider. Pogba is an easy yes.  
 

Tolisso too. Obviously Modric. 
 

A lot of big clubs have limited financed and are also investing heavily on free transfers. 
 

 

Pogba is an easy yes?

No he isn't, not at all. Actually, he is an easy no.

1 minute ago, Bompeter said:

Has he not played every game under Howe in which he was fit? 

 

"Urgh" <- are you twelve? 

A completely nonsensical reply as expected

53 minutes ago, STM said:

He doesn't work hard off the ball, he clearly dislikes that side of the game, he also takes the huff on the pitch, which is annoying. Those are my only two criticisms of him.

 

He's still one of our best players, he still has a big future for us but he's not immune from criticism.

 

I got called arrogant for suggesting that we might outgrow him the other day. My point was that if we have ambitions to challenge for league titles, we can't have ANYONE who doesn't work for the team. ASM wouldn't get a game for any of the current top four or Spurs because none of their managers would accept him only giving 90% when tracking back or pressing ball.

 

He wants to be a ballon d'or winner, well he needs to have the correct attitude of one on the pitch.

 

I love watching him play and he has the ability to do whatever he wants.

He wouldn't get away with it at even the likes of West Ham, Southampton or Palace. I don't understand why this is so difficult for people to grasp.

Howe wants us to play with more of a high press, which is very different from what we did under Bruce. And so it's just not looking like a great fit at all.

But hey ... some stats and charts show he dribbles a lot and creates chances so nothing else at all matters. Just throw him out there and let him do what he wants regardless of what the manager is trying to do with the rest of the team. 

Urgh.

5 minutes ago, Pata said:

Little over month ago he had the best game of his NUFC career against Everton, under Eddie Howe. One of the best performances I can remember from a NUFC player. Now people want to get rid of him in the summer because he's lazy, useless, ineffective and can't play under Howe.

 

Fucking ridiculous, no wonder there are people calling us fickle and deluded.

People are watching his performances and giving reasonable break downs on what the issues of his style of play are, and why more often than not it hurts the team. One amazing performance does not make all his other issues acceptable.

51 minutes ago, neesy111 said:

 

I genuinely cannot believe how bad this guy's general play is man. My goodness.

Perhaps from a pressing and defensive point of view he is more adept than Gayle, but anything to do with actually going forward he is miles off. He's really shocking.

Not even mad at the guy because it's not his fault he was brought here, but my word is he poor.

Just now, Mr Raspberry Jam said:

There is some absolutely batshit mental takes on here tonight man. Christ of the night. 

Just a matter of time man. We'll see.

Just now, Robster said:

Aye but Southampton had only lost once at home until we turned up. Probably not many saw that as an opportunity. Results are often unpredictable at this stage of the season. We'll pick up more points along the way.

Yeah, you're probably right. Fingers crossed.

2 minutes ago, STM said:

It's becoming more and more apparent that ASM is unlikely to have a long term future at NUFC or indeed the career he wants if he can't play for the team. That means working for the team, playing passes at the right time and not sulking when things don't go his way.

 

We aren't good enough to lose him yet but the situation will be different in 12 months time.

That spell with him out of the team and the run we went on was very telling to a lot of people who were convinced he was our only chance at getting results.

There was much more of a balance to our play going forward, even though it wasn't always perfect, and it made us a lot more organised defensively too.

If we stay up we'll have so many options to improve this team and I just don't see why we'd persist with him really.

Ironically them going down to ten men made things worse for us as they started sitting deep.

We have absolutely zero creativity higher up the pitch as far as incisive passing goes.

Bruno definitely has the ability in spades, but he was being used in that deeper position today, and I just don't think it benefits us enough if we go with that approach with the way the team is currently constructed.

He's quick enough to literally just knock it past most full backs and out pace them, but he never does ... it's so bloody weird.

Waited till he was just about to be subbed before finally running at a defender, and he showed how effective he could have been at that all game.

At this point I'm totally sick of him tbh. Can't wait for the day our position in the prem is confirmed for next year, and we can start moving some of these folks on.

4 minutes ago, Robster said:

That's the spirit.

Unfortunately he's not wrong though.

Can't be wasting opportunities like what we had tonight. It was so terrible.

This guy should not be starting ahead of Gayle that's for certain.

Just now, WarrenBartonCentrePartin said:

Everton were down to 10 and sitting deep. For all his speed, he's not going to go past three or four players in front of him without someone getting a foot in.

 

I said it after Chelsea, but he's not really suited to be an impact sub. If he's coming on 10 minutes into the second half, it's not as bad but if you're looking to win or get back into a game around the 75-minute mark, the opposition are going to be set up very differently than they were at kick off.

And yet instead of moving the ball and trying to find pockets of space he just runs into them all anyway and loses the ball. He is so one dimensional.

Start him from the off if he's going to be used or keep him out.

Always seems way off the pace when he comes on. Like he hasn't warmed up. 

Thought he was mostly ineffective and for the most part got tackled or pushed off the ball.