merlin

Same here but I do believe a correlation can be made between what kind of character they are and their abilities/ideas or lack of. KK for example was an extrovert,a real charmer, a very positive forward thinking person and that's how his side played. Bobby was a bubbly positive person as well, full of adventure and excitable. Dalglish on the other hand was dour and that's how his sides played. Pardew is a bit false if you ask me, he's a working class bloke in an Armani suit with Hugo Boss glasses, a cosmopolitan wife and a dossier for every team and player. He has created an image for himself and speaks a good game, but when that image is exposed, well, he's just a working class bloke underneath it all. We play like his character. We are just a workmanlike team basically. I run my own business and whenever I employ someone I always look at their character first and what kind of person they are. We have one kid working for us, he's a lazy so and so but he's a very funny kid and very likeable, he makes others tick. Give me him over a harder working kid who has nowt about him. You can tell a lot about a manager from their character and just what kind of managers they are or will be. That's a very astute post HTT. Yes I agree, generally the more outgoing, flamboyant the manager, the more attractive football his team will play, and vice versa. See Howard Wilkinson, George Graham etc. I wrote an article for this site a few years back delving into the characters of all our managers dating back to Ozzie Ardiles all the way to Alan Shearer (who I couldn't fathom out) because I believed a correlation between their characters and abilities as managers or coaches could be made and I think I found it really could. KK and Sir Bobby are obvious examples of course but if you look at all of the managers in the Premier League, their respective sides will show several characteristics of their managers both good and bad and on many levels. Arsene Wenger doesn't strike me as le fun guy whatsoever. Neither does Fergie, but I think you'll find that players respect them because of their knowledge and proven success....

This is the nub of the whole problem. Its a lose-lose situation because if Pardew goes, we are very unlikely to get a better replacement and the selling situation you refer to very likely to happen, although even if Pardew stays, I reckon at least one of the better players will go in Jan....Ba leaving might improve the atmosphere around the dressing room, but I think people like Cabaye have made their mind up as to which way Ashley is taking the club and they are not prepared to hang around during their prime years...and who could blame them ? Future looks very moderate right now.

Reserve team football is a far cry from 1st team PL games. So why are Samiobi and Fergie getting picked ..?

Agree - the players probably have sussed him, but even worse is the suspicion that quite a few of them have sussed the board and its lack of ambition. Always thought Cabaye was miffed about the Debuchy deal breaking down and also, Pardew possibly told the players that more signings were coming last summer in order to stop them wanting to leave. Expect Ba to go in January and maybe one or two others as well. Chickens coming home to roost, not just for Pardew but also the board and their parsimonious transfer dealings...doesn't bear thinking about if we lost 2 quality players because you couldn't bank on them getting adequate replacements.

Has anyone noticed how many goals Inman either scores or creates for the Reserves, and yet he is never near getting into the first team squad ? Is it because he is in danger of playing football, or is there something we don't know...?

Its nothing like the Robson scenario - we had qualified for CL twice under SBR and weren't playing the awful football the side is dishing up now. Robson hung on a bit too long and Shepherd - as usual - messed the whole thing up. Robson had a long and glorious CV to his name when he joined NUFC....would you like to compare that to Mr A Pardew's, please...?

Cisse can hold the ball up. Playing up front on his own at Freiburg he was brilliant at it. I've never seen him play for Freiburg, but I simply don't believe that. He's absolutely terrible at it, even worse than Ba. Me neither but i would imagine when he played up front on his own at Freiberg he wasn't having balls fired at his head and instead was getting balls played through midfield and then down the side of centre backs for him to run on too. The was a moment in the 2nd half when cisse was called offside after making the right dash when he was behind the southhampton defense line and waited and waited (while he was dashing) for the ballot come from Simpson and when it came it was too late. The shake of the head and the smile of frustration he had on his face says it all. In short our biggest problem is not creating any good opportunities for our strikers to do something. We have no system or plan of attack to break down and unlock opponents defense. When harem and Cabaye are injured or off forum we are basically f**k. The lack of investment in senior players last summer is now bearing it's results and I blame Ashley for this. Agree that lack of investment to blame, but there is little evidence to suggest that we would play any differently with 1 or 2 new players.

Interesting comment about Ba. I tend to agree, i think Cisse holds it up and looks to find a team mate better than Ba does and despite his goals I think we need to get away fro playing the 2 of them up top and actually have the balls to pick one of them, and at the minute i'd pick Cisse. Ba is looking more and more as if he is part of the problem - he is next to useless at holding up the ball, esp for a big man and his control is often suspect in tight situations. If we could get a decent target man I would replace him because this clause in his contract will always be held over the club's head.

Absolutely. It's been collectively s****; all players and manager are getting it wrong at the moment. It's a recipe for defeat. No - its a recipe for relegation.

They weren't brilliant - they passed the ball to each other instead of to the opposition, ran off the ball to create space and wanted it more than we did...they also looked organized. We made them look like Real Madrid instead of a newly-promoted side just finding their feet...we could and should have lost 5 - 0, they hit the woodwork 3 times. We are a shambles of a team, and if we lose at Stoke on Weds, the alarm bells will be clanging very loudly indeed. This sort of shambles can't go on - if it does, we'll be looking for a new manager by Christmas.

S Not quite, I probably an a moron though because I've been putting myself through so much crap following football for more decades that a 25 year old has lived through. Snap - more than 2 more...!

If the results don't pick up he will go. This! Only a question of time if we don't improve, obvious like. Agree - New Year most likely if we are struggling at Christmas.

Yes, but he wouldn't have moved for us....too esconced in the South and doesn't need the aggro...

Bringing in an 'attacking coach' only works is the manager wants to develop that side of the game - if he's uncomfortable with pass and move football, as Pardew seems to be(evidenced by the time spent on defence in training), a new coach will be superfluous. The manager determines the style of play.

Agree with quite a lot of this, Minhosa - a good post - don't know why you got stick about the Colo thing, he's over 30 and we will really struggle if he gets any long term injuries. Maybe they think Goode is the long term replacement but he has just gone to Bradford and unless he really does well there, he won't be getting a chance in the first team any time soon. Martinez is also a good punt, but I have doubts whether he would join us after refusing Liverpool, or that Whelan would let him...he would also be given lots of bad vibes from Whelan about Ashley. Jol would be my choice but I can't see him leaving a fairly comfortable post in London to head North...replacing Pardew is going to be difficult and almost impossible if we want a proven manager due to the constraints they have to work under because we DO need quality players in crucial positions. Your comment about Ba and Cisse will, I reckon, solve itself because I expect Ba to go in Jan, which means we will need a very decent target man... Agree with the RB AND the winger but we all know that these positions are going to be a problem until summer... To sum up, there is so much wrong that it is going to take major surgery to put it right ; I am convinced we will never play a good passing game under Pardew and his methods may work for short periods but are eventually found out and not a basis for long term success. It wouldn't actually surprise me if we DID win at Southampton but any such result will paper over the cracks...for a while. We are never going to be a Top 4 club under Ashley - will be a big ask under any owner now unless a rich Arab buys the club - because we will always be short on the playing side. That said, we have the support base, a good number of decent players and, with the right coaching/management, are capable of being Top 6 and a regular challenger for cups. Our fans at least deserve to see entertaining(and, at SJP at least) winning football...most of them would be happy with the scenario I have described but we are a LONG way from that now. Even during last season's winning run, we rarely played decent football and had a fair amount of luck - that only lasts so long. My biggest fear is that Ashley will either let this drag on too long or that he will genuinely not know what to do about it because he has painted himself into a corner with Pardew's 8 year contract and his own past actions. There is unlikely to be any action soon - they will rely on some luck turning things their way but Christmas will be the crucial time. If we are in the bottom 4 by then, I expect something will be done,but I haven't a clue what..! Even if we pull out of the current problems, I expect them to return in due course.....

Last season wasn't brilliant, our league position was and a few games were but it was also poor at times, especially early in the season. I never understand why APs record before he came to SJP is so readily ignored. He managed four years at Reading, three at West Ham, two at Charlton and then one in div 3 with Southampton. His career had been in obvious decline for years. I can't think of any manager with a career trajectory like that who suddenly turned into a quality top flight manager. There's always exceptions to the rules but I don't think our performances last season were good enough to turn a blind eye to his less than inspiring CV. See my answer to Mick's comment as above...!

What have you seen to make you think he can turn things around? It can't be his CV because he's never turned a major slump around in his entire career. Mick, you should know by now that we possess some of the most blindly optimistic fans in the world.... We also possess a board who have been very capable in reducing their expectations ....

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/computer-close-hulk.gif I still think he has bought himself time with last seasons finish of 5th. Not sure if our football will improve, or depends on what your definition of football is. We wont go down, we'll bobble aout picking up points and will be safe... IF he carries on like this and we are dropping more home points then I think the sword will fall, as much as Pardew is their man, they are a pair of ruthless buggers. He's just been given an 8 year deal. The club want stability and I'm absolutely certain that unless there's a genuine threat of relegation he'll remain in post and rightly so. Chopping and changing managers has never been conducive to good results, particularly at NUFC. The worst thing Pardew could've done was finish fifth last season. People seem to have forgotten we were a Championship side three years ago. ...and we were a Premiership side, qualifying for Europe and finishing in the Top 5 several times for 16 years before that... People keep forgetting that, too.....

If that is the case then it's still down to the manager because it happens so often that he should do something about it. Haven't we had quotes from Stone only this week about us hitting it long? Anybody reading some posts on here would think a manager has no responsibilities because you can find an excuse for everything. He’s the manager, he’s responsible for choosing incoming signings and he’s gone out of his way to tell us that he plays a part in this. It’s tough if that’s not the case because he’s tied himself into our transfer activity through the claims that he’s made on the subject. He’s responsible for coaching the players on a daily basis, the same players who hoof the ball as if it was a bomb ready to go off. He decides to concentrate on defence for 4 out of 5 days so is it any wonder that we aren’t very good at playing the ball and opening up the opposition when we rarely practice it? He’s responsible for picking the team, the same team that has looked like a middle to lower league side. The same team that changes twice a week when we play in Europe so it’s no wonder we’re disjointed if we practice for part of the week with one team for one game then another team for another game a couple of days later. Pardew is responsible for team morale, it’s up to him to get his players performing to the best of their ability, if he can’t then he’s not doing his job. He chooses the tactics, it his responsibility to pick the best players available to play against the opposition using the most likely tactics to get the most from each game, it’s not working yet he still goes with the same s*** time after time. He could have changed things around against Swansea because of Cisse not being available, it was the easy option but he didn’t make the most of it even though it had been recognised that we were being outnumbered in midfield. Something has been said to him even though he thinks our two can outnumber 3, how does that work? Why does it become a surprise that 3 people can walk the ball around 2? Pardew is responsible for our substitutions and more often than not he leaves me scratching my head. 2 out of 3 changes on Saturday made no sense at all and he's lost the plot if he thinks taking one player off needs another 3 players to move to allow that 1 player to come on. Pardew is the manager of the football club, he is responsible for managing the team and should be held to account when we are playing poorly and/or losing games. We’ve got some very good players who are proven quality and have been used to winning, I refuse to believe that what we see now is the limit of the ability of the players that Pardew has at his disposal. If people want to happily go along with thinking that what we have now is good enough, or as good as it can get with our current squad then that's up to them. Personally, I think we're well below par and the reason for that is fairly easy to see. It's coaching, tactics and players being unable to play a style of football which is both alien to them and shambolic. I doubt for one minute that any professional footballer would want to play the way we play on a regular basis. As a fan, I don’t want to have to see it. The players are not blameless in all this but I don't see them as the major problem. A really good post Mick - sums up my feelings about the whole thing entirely. The lack of movement and obvious lack of thought being put into our game is down to coaching methods and the style dictated by the manager. When KK took over in 1992, it was clear, even from the first match against Bristol City, that the players were more motivated and trying to play a pass and move game. The improvement didn't really become obvious until the following season when we started to take teams apart and won 11 games off the belt playing really good football. Nobody could say KK spent a fortune in his first season or two - we spent comparatively little after getting promotion, with Kelly being sold and Beardsley coming back being the major moves before the season started and we eventually finished 3rd. This is history, but it IS relevant - the manager dictates the style of play and he has to live or die by the results. We over-achieved last season, but we do have at least 7 players who are top half PL quality at least so should be playing the type of football which gets the best out of them. The kick and rush stuff is also bad for our younger players as it instills bad habits into them, The ball should NEVER be given away as cheaply or as often as we do it and this is a direct result of playing the percentage game that Pardew seems to be wanting the side to play. We have had injuries and suspensions, but all teams have those and some of our suspensions are a result of rash tackles which look suspiciously like frustration to me... This can't go on, but its anyone's guess how it will all end....probably badly if history is any guide.

Until the side is mathematically safe by gathering enough points, you can never rule relegation out. I haven't voted on this and won't until we reach January.....ask the question again after the window closes....

We haven't got the pace or wide players of quality to play this type of game - you need fast forwards who will frighten defenders into staying back in order to play this type of game successfully. The tactics being used are useless for the players we have. cisse and ba are no slouches and ben arfa is pretty good out wide (even though i don't think it gets the best out of him) Cisse and Ba are OK for pace, but that is all - OK. They are not especially fast off the mark and Ba tends to get goal-side of players well rather than beating defenders for pace. HBA is quick but often crowded out by heavy marking or forced to make a hurried pass because he is not getting support from team mates who don't move into space.

We haven't got the pace or wide players of quality to play this type of game - you need fast forwards who will frighten defenders into staying back in order to play this type of game successfully. The tactics being used are useless for the players we have.

This is what they used to do back in the days when Westwood, McKeag and Co were running the club and things have reverted back to that after a brief interlude under Sir John and KK when most aspects of the club were being run correctly. Obviously SBR was a great manager, but past his best and we had Fat Fred making a mess of it off the field. Things won't change while Ashley is in charge and after nearly 50 years supporting the club, I doubt whether a large percentage of fans will ever stay away unless relegation and a firesale of players occurs.

It's mad that grown adults put so much into a game and get so little out of it most of the time. I’m probably one of the few that have seen the club win a trophy in my lifetime and that is pathetic when you look at some of the clubs who have won trophies. I genuinely feel sorry for the people who have never had the chance to experience what it’s like and we’re unlikely to see that change for a while. I’ve brought my kids up to support Newcastle and I sometimes feel that by doing so I’ve ensured that they’re in for a life which consists of misery every week or two. Yes, spot on Mick - hard to see where the prospect of silverware is ever going to come from and many clubs with lesser support have done so in the years since we did. Sobering thought is that my son is now 13 years older than I was when we lifted the Fairs Cup in 69......he was also introduced to NUFC by me - talk about the sins of the fathers being visited on the son...! As long as we have the current regime and management it is hard to see this changing and I think many fans have secretly accepted this as the status quo....

He'd be a great match for the players we have. Unfortunately, there's no chance of this happening. The thing is you don't know how certain players would react. Take Ben Arfa for example, he may dislike someone like Martinez if he came in. That doesn't matter a toss - as long as Martinez, or anyone else, gets the team AS A WHOLE playing well, he can upset who he likes...club is bigger than 1 player...