Happy Face

i apologise You're spot on. just my perception. Probably clouded by Wullie's insistence that things have never been this bad in 15 years It's much easier to cope with the manager if the players are bollocks. Having to be in a position where players with real talent and pedigree look absolute toss and we can't accommodate Hatem Ben Arfa because he doesn't graft enough is unbelievably depressing. I've never been more frustrated as a Newcastle fan because I can see how close it is, that doesn't necessarily mean things are at their worst. Arguing over Pardew is one thing. I'm not daft enough to get into the debate of whether we should "accomodate" Ben Arfa rather than actually ask him to try and win the ball back when we're in the shit.

It's all bollocks cos I wasn't in work after the Everton game so I missed that defeat off of my spreadsheet. Think it's time to hang up my t distribution table.

i apologise You're spot on. just my perception. Probably clouded by Wullie's insistence that things have never been this bad in 15 years

http://i43.tinypic.com/4iepaf.jpg I've had a look at our stats up to Cardiff and found the most positive one, just for you. It's our 5 game points-per-game average going back to the start of last season. We've hit a 2 point average for the first time in all that time. It's not the winning it's the playing nice that counts though.

Might have been. I'm afraid i was very .... very drunk http://www.lily.fi/sites/lily/files/user/3591/2012/04/4983426_std.jpg

Having attended games at the end of Allardyce's tenure he was deeply unpopular. The atmosphere in the 0-3 defeat by Liverpool was truly toxic towards Allardyce. Fans were vitriolic with him during that game and he was barracked from all corners of the ground. Pardew's had that for 10 months man Longer than Allardyce's entire stint. I'm on about in the ground. Not cyberspace. Aye, in the stands. I was there. http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/newcastle-1-2-reading-alan-pardew-1546825#ixzz2h2VEwoJp You yourself made the point that people were singing 'Pardew's Black and White Army' in a point that you were making about how the support for Pardew is still there in the stadium... There was none of that under Allardyce. I was at the Stoke cup game before Allardyce got the sack and he was applauded off the field. There are pockets of staunch support no matter what. Their unpopularity is probably about even tbf, it's just been allowed to go on much longer under Pardew so there's been more embarrassing home defeats that have weakened his position and longer for his poll numbers to go down. The difference then was that our billionaire owner hadn't made any appointments. Many were excited to see someone competent let loose with tens of millions Our optimism has been beaten down now, so we mutely accept the least awful option we have.

You don't think he deserves all the abuse he got for that game? Course he did. I gave him plenty myself.

Is there? Yes there is. How in any fevered imagination could that be construed as a defense of Pardew?

Having attended games at the end of Allardyce's tenure he was deeply unpopular. The atmosphere in the 0-3 defeat by Liverpool was truly toxic towards Allardyce. Fans were vitriolic with him during that game and he was barracked from all corners of the ground. Pardew's had that for 10 months man Longer than Allardyce's entire stint. I'm on about in the ground. Not cyberspace. Aye, in the stands. I was there. http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/newcastle-1-2-reading-alan-pardew-1546825#ixzz2h2VEwoJp You yourself made the point that people were singing 'Pardew's Black and White Army' in a point that you were making about how the support for Pardew is still there in the stadium... There was none of that under Allardyce. I was at the Stoke cup game before Allardyce got the sack and he was applauded off the field. There are pockets of staunch support no matter what. Their unpopularity is probably about even tbf, it's just been allowed to go on much longer under Pardew so there's been more embarrassing home defeats that have weakened his position and longer for his poll numbers to go down.

Having attended games at the end of Allardyce's tenure he was deeply unpopular. The atmosphere in the 0-3 defeat by Liverpool was truly toxic towards Allardyce. Fans were vitriolic with him during that game and he was barracked from all corners of the ground. Pardew's had that for 10 months man Longer than Allardyce's entire stint. I'm on about in the ground. Not cyberspace. Aye, in the stands. I was there. http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/newcastle-1-2-reading-alan-pardew-1546825#ixzz2h2VEwoJp Pardew is more unpopular in cyberspace too by the way... http://www.newcastle-online.org/nufcforum/index.php/topic,48146.msg1119974.html#msg1119974 Two weeks before the sack it was 50-50. See if you can get half the posters on here to support Pardew.

Having attended games at the end of Allardyce's tenure he was deeply unpopular. The atmosphere in the 0-3 defeat by Liverpool was truly toxic towards Allardyce. Fans were vitriolic with him during that game and he was barracked from all corners of the ground. Pardew's had that for 10 months man Longer than Allardyce's entire stint. I'm on about in the ground. Not cyberspace. Aye, in the stands. I was there. http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/newcastle-1-2-reading-alan-pardew-1546825#ixzz2h2VEwoJp

Having attended games at the end of Allardyce's tenure he was deeply unpopular. The atmosphere in the 0-3 defeat by Liverpool was truly toxic towards Allardyce. Fans were vitriolic with him during that game and he was barracked from all corners of the ground. Pardew's had that for 10 months man Longer than Allardyce's entire stint. Give over has he. You forgot the Reading Home game in January? THAT was vitriol.

Interesting point that actually, but wouldn't it depend on the new guy starting really well? Otherwise we would just say "he's unproven, unknown cheap appointment, same as usual from Ashley". Probably the very best the "Pardew Out" folk can hope for though.

Is there a back four among the leagues best 7 clubs you would not swap with? I'd prefer to have the ones we've got being coached correctly before I'd go rushing out to swap anyone. Whey the ones at the Manchester and Liverpool clubs and Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea aren't going to be getting shite coaching. I reckon coached properly that our back 4 should be happy with being the 8th best defense in the league. In terms of goals conceded, they were the 9th best when we finished 5th. Last year 16th though. Was Danny Simpson that good?

Is there a back four among the leagues best 7 clubs you would not swap with?

Having attended games at the end of Allardyce's tenure he was deeply unpopular. The atmosphere in the 0-3 defeat by Liverpool was truly toxic towards Allardyce. Fans were vitriolic with him during that game and he was barracked from all corners of the ground. Pardew's had that for 10 months man Longer than Allardyce's entire stint.

The chance for a positive change at the club is very intriguing, because it's one that Ashley has rarely given himself the opportunity for previously. Allardyce was not a popular man, but he was nowhere near as unpopular as Pardew seems to be. His sacking was welcome to most, but not being openly demanded by large proportions of the support. Ashley took the edge off when he did sack Big Sam though though when he went after Harry Redknapp (or Redknapp took the edge off, going public on his rejection). The subsequent arrival of Keegan was as close as Ashley has got to exciting the fans with an appointment. There were those of us that saw what he can do at this club last time around and never doubted he was our best chance of building something again, given the support from above which everyone who knows anything about Keegan knows he demands. There were some Newcastle fans that bought into the media fueled view that "the return of the messiah" was a hiding to nothing, that Keegan had been tactically short when he was last in maagement and was doomed to failure because he hadn't been in the game for a few years, it certainly wasn't a universal welcome. Despite the enemies in the press Keegan had found while in charge of England, and the uncertainty it bred, Newcastle fans could all see the seeds of a more positive outlook in the few games he had, before Ashley screwed up. Keegan went and Kinnear came in. Whoever got the job was going to be less popular than Fergie's replacement, but Kinnear was a slap in the face and left the club on a downward spiral. His near death experience in the new year came as blessed relief, but Ashley dilly dallied on a replacement. Shearer eventually got the job on a temporary basis only, with just a few games left to save us. Very few Newcastle fans were convinced bringing in an inexperienced young fella that had played with half the squad was a good move, short or long term. And when we went down and Shearer wasn't given the long term role, few were lamenting his departure more than relegation itself. The promotion from within of Hughton was underwhelming, but generally accepted. He did a job in the championship and was very popular by the time he got sacked. Another example of Ashley taking a club on the up and seemingly want to push it back down. Pardew's appointment was derided by everyone watching. His achievents in 11/12 convinced no-one paying close attention to the football on display, but was gladly accepted as possibly attractuing a better calibre of manager, unfortunately it saw Pardew rewarded with an 8 year contract that gave the football world a laugh and is perceived to have bitten us on the bum now that he is struggling. It didn't really because we know the contract is only tight enough for suitors chasing Pardew, not for the club choosing to jettison him. But we are left with a rare opportunity in the ownership of Mike Ashley, one where he can sack the manager and not have the manager coming in on the back foot. Anyone Ashley appointed should benefit from an overwhelmingly positive reaction from the stands. There are doubtless dozens of young up and coming managers around the world that would be made welcome, or if Ashley showed the ambition to go and get a proven manager with years of experience the entire club would be lifted. The eternal optimism I have still keeps me hoping Pardew can put a run together. That optimism, i know in my heart, is about as misplaced as any optimism that Ashley can correct the litany of mistakes above and bring in a man to unite us all on a charge up the table. The more likely appointment would be Kinnearesque, if not Kinnear himself. ...but if Ashley ever had the opportunity to make a popular decision, it could follow the upcoming games against Liverpool, Sunderland, Man City, Chelsea and Spurs.

Should have no bother turning over one or two of Liverpool, Chelsea and Spurs in the coming weeks then? To be fair to Pardew, his 2 wins against top 6 opposition last season, and the year before that, is more than we've managed since 06/07. We only managed 1 win in 07/08, 08/09 and 10/11 and were in the championship in 09/10. Think it's always tough, but he's been better at turning over top opposition than our other recent managers. He's failed to get as many draws as we've managed previously like.

Well this is just pure assumption though. Common sense seems to suggest that flying round the world, having less time to prepare, and playing extra games would make for a tougher season. It's not an excuse for how badly we did, but I don't understand why people spend so long denying that the effect exists. Our best players didn't play, though. Flying all around the world? You mean a three hour flight instead of a three hour bus ride? Having less time to prepare? Same applies to teams that have domestic cup runs. A Premier league team not knocked out of the domestic cups will have played 4 cup games by christmas. All the other clubs in the league will have played at least one as well though, most will have played two or three. So you're looking at an extra 1 to 3 games over your opponents in the league. The 3 clubs in the Europa will play 8 extra games over the other 13 clubs not involved in Europe before christmas. If it's accepted that the league cup will have an impact, then it follows that the European competitions will have a worse impact.

I'd have put us in the Spurs/Liverpool bracket back then. Our european finish wasn't an anomaly and we spent what would be expected of a champions league club.

Absolutely, correlation is not necessarilly causation. There are a multitude of factors on how a season goes for a club. However, I think clubs tend to make the same sorts of mistakes, either not investing at all or spending too high on mercenary players or keeping a manager on for too long based on the finish he achieved the season prior. that sort of thing.

i don't think the effects of a European campain are as immediate as losing on a Sunday following a game on Thursday. Has anyone actually compared the proportion of points clubs win in the game following a euro fixture compared with their overall season average, to see if there is a drop off that obvious, rather than this sort of anecdotal "Swansea lost but Wigan won" sort of gubbins? ? I looked at the effect on overall seasons since the Europa began and the the trend is for a worse performance, but it is almost insignificant when when you remove Newcastle from the data. Average positions lost - 1.6 Average positions lost without NUFC skew - 0.8 Average points lost - 2.25 Average points lost without NUFC skew - 0.27 I also wondered what happened when you remove teams like Man City, Spurs and Liverpool who have the set-up to cope with a europa league campaign. What's the trend for the likes of Stoke Fulham, Villa and Everton with/without NUFC? Average positions lost - 3.4 Average positions lost without NUFC skew - 2.2 Average points lost - 6.4 Average points lost without NUFC skew - 3.5 Cleary there is a more pronounced drop in performance levels among the teams that can't afford the investment to maintain standards during a Euro campaign, but Newcastle have been by far the worst contributor to that trend.

Aye, we didn't win any away games against newly promoted clubs last year. Let's not knock progress.

aaah yes, i did say that, and you're right to pull me up on it tbf...i don't think we'll finish above them but yeah we might not be a million miles away from them, it's not beyond the realms of possibility anyway as stated you can have your bet if you factor the points swing for europe against swansea Aye, ok then. Tenner says we'll finish 5 points or more ahead of Swansea @ 4/1. Gerrin Southampton

Turned off at, "I've tried to set the team up offensively all year" How can you think otherwise? He blatantly has. We've scored 2 for 5 games running as someone accurately mentioned in the match thread. There's plenty to criticise Pardew for accurately, without making shit up.