Happy Face

A bloke unfairly having a go at our players last night has nothing to do with Pardew being fairly pulled apart. I don't think it's fair to say Pardew is still plugging away at the same Plan a he was trying at christmas, that his vision is hoofball, that the first 10 games last year were unacceptable, or 10 or so after the new year, or that advancing to Europa QF should not impact on the league performance or that he should necessarily succeed despite whatever injury troubles he's had, or that we're regularly embarrassed at home etc. It's comments like that which I have responded to.

To be honest I think somebody who defends something he doesn't seem to like is odd. Now to your questions, I don't think he has many redeemable features, he's handled Cabaye and Coloccini wanting away quite well but I would expect most managers to have handled both the same way. As for learning, he probably has but he's just as likely to repeat mistakes as he's done so many times. That was what was especially disappointing in the Hull game. Just about everything I've praised about us improving since January was thrown out of the window as we fell apart completely. I was glad to see him at least say he was as angry about it as i was, it suggests he'll keep pushing us to play on the ground with real support for Cisse (or whichever striker plays up top.)

I've noticed a few claiming that they don't defend him, while defending him. Are you saying Pardew doesn't have one redeemable feature? He's learned nothing? Corrected no mistakes? You expose yourself as an unthinking dimwit if so. There was a bloke sat behind me last night, spent the whole game laying into our players, calling them maggots, bellends, pricks and cocks. Marveaux and Sammy got it in the neck most. He was droning on and on constantly about our lack of width. I am no fan of Sammy or Marveaux, but I would defy anyone to argue that this man was not a f***ing c***, unable to judge a performance as it plays out in front of him. To appreciate the good and criticise the bad. Strike a balance. What has that bloke got to do with ANYTHING? There's a difference between striking a balance and levelling the playing field. If I looked hard enough, I'd be able to find some redeeming qualities in some of the worst managers in the PL history, there are always ways to look at things in order to make people seem better. It's like getting 'punctual' in your report card, it means nothing. It's just there, taking up unnecessary space, making things look balanced in quantity and not quality. As far as I can see, that's exactly what you're doing. Putting a positive spin on things that to the majority are viewed as either negative, or a given. You could say that that's the product of a pessimistic outlook, but I would argue that a lot of people, myself included have gone through the same way of thinking as you for varying periods of time, until they've come to the conclusion that, actually, it was all evidence upon evidence of Pardew being shit. Going back to your way of thinking now, when I've already drawn a patient and defined conclusion that Pardew isn't good enough makes no sense. I wasn't striking a balance when I thought those things, I was entirely kidding myself that things would get better, when all of the signs pointed towards them getting worse, and all of the outcomes proved that they had. That bloke was criticising the Sammy based on his preconceived notions of shitness based on previous performances (and those of his brother) not on what was actually a top quality performance. He wasn't giving him the benefit of the doubt. No point giving him the benefit of the doubt cos he's been shit whenever he's played before. I'd call that unfair. It's not about looking hard enough for something to spin positively. There are tens of thousands of words written on here about what he does wrong. What's the harm in saying "well actually...." when there's an opposite view to be given.

That's about right tbf. If people slag him off for something I don't see, then I'm likely to question that criticism. I think it's important to be fair if you're going to criticise someone. The 13 game run with 2 wins last season was where our season went to shit. I think saying our season was utter shit from start to finish lacks nuance and fails to highlight the pure unadulterated shit of that period in comparison to the adequate form of the 25 games either side of it. Pardew's remit as I see it is to get the results that he should considering the players available to him. So if we get beat off Man City I'm not going to lose too much sleep over it, but when we lose to teams like Hull then I am going to feel something's wrong. You can argue that Ashley hasn't backed him, but he's still got a better squad of players available to him than all the rest bar the top 6/7 clubs. So the criticism he gets here is usually justified IMO. I criticised him in this thread after the Hull game too. Deservedly.

I've noticed a few claiming that they don't defend him, while defending him. Are you saying Pardew doesn't have one redeemable feature? He's learned nothing? Corrected no mistakes? You expose yourself as an unthinking dimwit if so. There was a bloke sat behind me last night, spent the whole game laying into our players, calling them maggots, bellends, pricks and cocks. Marveaux and Sammy got it in the neck most. He was droning on and on constantly about our lack of width. I am no fan of Sammy or Marveaux, but I would defy anyone to argue that this man was not a fucking cunt, unable to judge a performance as it plays out in front of him. To appreciate the good and criticise the bad. Strike a balance.

That's about right tbf. If people slag him off for something I don't see, then I'm likely to question that criticism. I think it's important to be fair if you're going to criticise someone. The 13 game run with 2 wins last season was where our season went to shit. I think saying our season was utter shit from start to finish lacks nuance and fails to highlight the pure unadulterated shit of that period in comparison to the adequate form of the 25 games either side of it.

Why do you spend so much time defending him if the bit in bold is true? Don't reply because of targets the club set him because that's bollocks. Any target set for him by the club is simply that and has nothing to do with what we as fans want. I have only defended what I see as the good things he's done. It's not black and white. It would be childish to say "I don't like Pardew so I can't appreciate anything he does". He isn't pure evil. He's a mediocre manager and will make many mistakes. When he takes action to correct it, then it should be applauded. If you criticise EVERYTHING then you have no critical faculties worthy of the name. I am more inclined to defend than criticise though, as a supporter of the club. I recognise Ashley will do as little as he possibly can to make the job easier, and is incapable of appointing a manager worthy of the club, so I don't see any good for the club coming from negativity. I'm also inclined to defend players and manager the lower we go, because that's when supporters help their club the most. Rather than piling on and adding fuel to the fire. Ring the wagons I say.

It implies the general view of "I don't need stats to tell me how we've played". Which is absolutely true.

it's everything to do with stats, as stated points and stats disguised awful performances for a long time...some people, even amidst the winning, were able to see the likely direction things would take, others chose to focus solely on numbers and think everything was fine last season - it seemed to come as a shock to them when things got as bad as they did numbers tell us this season is going OK at the moment, and i suppose it is, performances tell us there's as much to be worried about as there is to be happy about oh and as regards meeting his target of 10th, he managed it for 25% of the season then basically...good stats So now league position is a "meaningless stat" the same as long balls hit and shots from outside the box? See this thread i started over on TT... http://www.toontastic.net/board/topic/31769-whos-had-the-easiest-start/ That was October 2011. It was clear to me our position was not representative of the quality of our football. We'd had an incredibly easy start and were remarkably injury free. In the face of much opposition I argued that pardew's brand of football was not going to sustain us. But as the season went on and on and we maintained that position you had to accept that irrespective of performances, we were consistently winning points enough to stay up there. The league is not a meaningless stat. It's the measure of how we compare with other teams. As bad as you think you are, the league will tell you if other teams are worse. It was no shock to me that we dropped down the league. What was a shock was the outrage it caused amongst people had been watching us play all that time. I am no Pardew fan. I wasn't then. Perhaps my consistently low expectations, irrespective of league position is what stops me going apoplectic when we drop to 16th. Targets are set to stretch us. If they say they want top 8, top half would be fine. If they say top half, just below would be fine. In reality, we all know that the ONLY expectation is that we survive. The entire club, transfer policy, executive & management structure is set up for it. There is no ambition to push on and claim a few extra places for relatively little reward, compared to the TV money.

It's nothing to do with stats. 10 games in we were mid table. Had only lost to Man U and Chelsea. Had otherwise got maximum points from our home games except Villa, being a disappointing draw. ..and hadn't otherwise lost on the road. Taking points at Liverpool, Everton (top 6), Sunderland (derby) and Reading (where you'd hope for more). On the whole that constitutes a good start.

He only lost the games that were difficult. It was hardly a piece of piss start on the whole either. Playing 6 out of the 8 teams that topped the table and only 3 of the eventual bottom 9?

W4 D1 L1 Liverpool Mackems Man City Chelsea Tottenham .. is a harsh run that could do for him. 5 points would be a good return. Given that we're not judging him on the Man City game surely it's not fair to judge against any other good sides either? Just the sh*t and average ones. Everyone pretty much accepted our season started after the Man City game. He wasn't going to be sacked off that result or anything. I said he has 8 games after it that will tell us if we're relegation bait or not. A decent haul against West Ham, Fulham, Villa, Hull, Everton & Cardiff would suggest we're not going to be struggling in relegation places all season. Which would be enough to keep Pardew in his job. For better or worse. However, with that draw in the league cup we now have 5 games following that are all REALLY difficult. Whatever has happened in the 8 preceding games, if he were to lose 5 on the bounce, there would be hell on, irrespective of the opponents, and the #Pardewout might get their wish.

Happy face claimed "When we were in the top half, before the awful pre Christmas run? If you won't accept top half standard then he's got no hope." Is it not acceptable that people should educate him? He seems a pretty well educated bloke, to be honest. I'm sure he's well aware of our results and performances from last season, but he may have seen them in a slightly less negative light. I don't know, he'll manage, I think. Top half is the target the club have set Pardew. http://www.statto.com/football/img/progress/ACBAOEALNn For 10 games he was doing what he'd been tasked with, in terms of results. Only losing to Chelsea and Man U. Then it went to shit for 13 games I thought we played canny shit football as we finished 5th. But in no hate filled anti-pardew mind could it ever be construed as worthy of the sack.

W4 D1 L1 Liverpool Mackems Man City Chelsea Tottenham .. is a harsh run that could do for him. 5 points would be a good return. I judged him after the first 10 games last season like he requested. He doesn't get a second bite of the cherry as far as I'm concerned When we were in the top half, before the awful pre Christmas run? If you won't accept top half standard then he's got no hope.

W4 D1 L1 Liverpool Mackems Man City Chelsea Tottenham .. is a harsh run that could do for him. 5 points would be a good return.

Am I missing something? Swansea made 7 changes from the league team in their first League cup game last year... http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19340378 How is this such a let down? I haven't seen the exact wording. Have the club said we'll play a team of kids from start to end?

Weird thing to do with no cameras pointing that way....and no live tv coverage.

Or the creation of better opportunities.

http://i44.tinypic.com/2dawvmb.jpg This graph is the trend in shot accuracy (shots on target/total shots) at NUFC over the last 24 games based on a 5 game average. So the average accuracy for this season (5 games) is marked by the Hull marker at the end, which is 23%. This graph shows the change since the transfer window closed in January.

Luke moore is a comedian though tbf. Pardew has danced victory jigs in Wenger's face, he'd hardly argue that Wenger should get out of football. When we drew with them at home? No, when he beat them at West Ham.

Then he shouldn't start any of those players who took it too lightly against Leeds. Ben Arfa, Cisse and Debuchy should all be benched, we have more than enough quality to win at home against a struggling championship side. Pull "The Di Canio"? It's okay to "rest" players without being an arse about it like Di Canio. If Pardew feels some of them didn't give enough then it's as good a reason as any to leave them out and let them ponder on it. With Ben Arfa and Cisse I'm inclined to agree. With Debuchy I'm inclined to think he needs as much experience of English football as he can get.

Luke moore is a comedian though tbf. Pardew has danced victory jigs in Wenger's face, he'd hardly argue that Wenger should get out of football.

Then he shouldn't start any of those players who took it too lightly against Leeds. Ben Arfa, Cisse and Debuchy should all be benched, we have more than enough quality to win at home against a struggling championship side. Pull "The Di Canio"?

That's the only bit that came as news to me. It's still very unclear though. Doesn't sound like the £111m loan will now become a £129m loan which would have been the preferred approach for fans. There's no clue as to how long the £18m repayment will be deferred for. Has he used it for the January spending this year and want it back in full next year? Will he be taking £6m a year for 3 years instead of all in one fell swoop? These are the only important questions to me because as long as we're paying him back, the cost of relegation is still inhibiting our spending power. Ashley's mistakes from 08/09 are still costing the club in terms of forward momentum 5 years down the line.

It is to me mate. I don't post on here for your benefit. I'm bored at work. Likewise, no one posts specifically for your benefit, which is what you're looking for. I think everyone's just fascinated by you because you're a walking contradiction. Why is it a contradiction to prefer the status quo of a mediocre manager at my mediocre club being run by a complete fucktard and his simpleton pisshead of a mate? There is no contradiction in being absolutely certain that the chairman who appointed Kinnear, Wise, Vetere, Llambias, Pardew and Kinnear again; the man who could not work with Keegan or Hughton or Shearer or Redknapp; there's no contradiction in being certain he couldn't appoint and work with a talented manager if his life depended on it. Giving him the opportunity to fuck up again while we aren't in any danger, while we're starting to play some decent football, while there's remarkably little animosity between players, manager, DOF and board considering, that seems suicidal to me. It's quite simple for me, I think we've got probably a squad that is value wise a top 8 finish every time. I think we've got some very good players there that if organised into an effective unit could play attractive and effective football. Pardew's lack of ability to instill shape or method frustrates the hell out of me. I think you could give any 3rd division coach those players and they'd get similar results. Win some, lose some depending on individuals pulling a few goals from nowhere. Pardew isn't good enough for this football club, he should be at crystal palace. None of that contradicts anything I said either.