Lotus

Doubt he'll cost £1M because other teams will be willing to pay more.

Funny how things change, I was one of the few banging on about how he hadn't replaced Dyer and Solano properly yet was shot down by plenty on here.

 

You have said that he bought Smith to replace Dyer, if I'm not mistaken. I think - or hope - this isn't the case, as Smith is not a midfield player.

 

I think he has been brought primarily to replace Ameobi in the long run.

 

The worrying thing is that it would appear the club said that after buying Smith, there was no money to replace Solano and Dyer.

We will never challenge the top 4 clubs with such a mentality.

 

However, as i said, if this was Allardyces decision, then I would be worried by his poor judgement.

 

Maybe none of the players he wanted were available.

 

I can accept that.

 

However, when we brought in those last minute players last year ie Sibierski and Rossi, I disagreed with people who labelled them "panic signings". I think the same thing was necessary, these things happen in football. A couple of short term signings and/or a loan signing should have been made while he waited, thats what football is about, building and improving. You can always get better players when they become available, and moving the replaced players on.

 

Setting standards is one thing, but just one player with pace to play wide right, was an absolute necessity. Far better than nobody, or someone out of position, which is what he's been doing.

 

 

Think he expected more from Milner and Geremi.

Do you think that SA has decided he has the offensive players your talking of in Viduka, Smith, Emre and Barton? 3 out of 4 are his signings. I have an impression he thinks he has the players to hold the ball up and the midfielders to put in the quality passes while being able to get stuck in.

 

I hope he doesn't think this, if he does, he won't last long.

 

Funnily enough i don't think the defence has been improved much either tbh.

However, i hope we buy a RW in January if nothing else.

 

to be quite honest, the whole sodding thing and recent performances have just pissed me off.

 

 

Me too, right f**king moody after the optimism i had after SA'a appointment.

But i look at Portsmouth and Blackburn who doing well and i realise Redknapp and Hughes have a had a couple of years to development a pretty decent team. Here's hoping.

Funny how things change, I was one of the few banging on about how he hadn't replaced Dyer and Solano properly yet was shot down by plenty on here.

 

You have said that he bought Smith to replace Dyer, if I'm not mistaken. I think - or hope - this isn't the case, as Smith is not a midfield player.

 

I think he has been brought primarily to replace Ameobi in the long run.

 

The worrying thing is that it would appear the club said that after buying Smith, there was no money to replace Solano and Dyer.

We will never challenge the top 4 clubs with such a mentality.

 

However, as i said, if this was Allardyces decision, then I would be worried by his poor judgement.

 

 

 

 

Maybe none of the players he wanted were available.

Do you think that SA has decided he has the offensive players your talking of in Viduka, Smith, Emre and Barton? 3 out of 4 are his signings. I have an impression he thinks he has the players to hold the ball up and the midfielders to put in the quality passes while being able to get stuck in.

 

I hope he doesn't think this, if he does, he won't last long.

 

 

Funnily enough i don't think the defence has been improved much either tbh.

However, i hope we buy a RW in January if nothing else.

Do you think that SA has decided he has the offensive players your talking of in Viduka, Smith, Emre and Barton? 3 out of 4 are his signings. I have an impression he thinks he has the players to hold the ball up and the midfielders to put in the quality passes while being able to get stuck in.

I thought we were supposed to be a better team with Smith up front as he can hold the ball up which would put less pressure on our defence?

 

:lol:

 

You can't blame him for 'not holding the ball up' today. He didn't have the ball.

 

He had a crap game, because he did nothing and made no effort to do anything (ie, come deep, retrieve the ball, make runs into the box) - but in terms of holding up, he had nowt to hold up. We drifted in and out of long ball but i don't think a pass was ever once targeted at his head or feet with his back to goal. The long balls (usually from Enrique) were normally diagonal, to Milner or Barton or whoever.

 

is the correct answer.

 

We lack creativity and pace in midfield, the new defenders have not made much difference at all, just as I said. [.....waiting to be accused of point scoring ........ ].

 

Also, Taylor and Rozenhal are our 2 best centre backs, which I also said a while ago.

 

 

Do you think we've bought good defenders this summer?

 

As a matter of fact, generally, yes. Care to explain how they haven't made such a big difference ?

 

Also - as Shepherd and Hall are entirely to blame for all our misfortunes over the past decade ie only qualifying regularly for europe more than everyone bar 4 teams, how come we are still only in mid table - and still need at least 2 new forwards with pace - now they have gone ?

 

 

The problems are clearly across the pitch, we don't always offer much of a threat which is always going to be difficult. The opposition don't give you enough respect.

However, we've conceded some goals this season (and, of course yesterday) that were due to poor defending. We gave them 3 goals, that's asking a lot for any attacking players to make up don't you think? 

I thought we were supposed to be a better team with Smith up front as he can hold the ball up which would put less pressure on our defence?

 

:lol:

 

You can't blame him for 'not holding the ball up' today. He didn't have the ball.

 

He had a crap game, because he did nothing and made no effort to do anything (ie, come deep, retrieve the ball, make runs into the box) - but in terms of holding up, he had nowt to hold up. We drifted in and out of long ball but i don't think a pass was ever once targeted at his head or feet with his back to goal. The long balls (usually from Enrique) were normally diagonal, to Milner or Barton or whoever.

 

is the correct answer.

 

We lack creativity and pace in midfield, the new defenders have not made much difference at all, just as I said. [.....waiting to be accused of point scoring ........ ].

 

Also, Taylor and Rozenhal are our 2 best centre backs, which I also said a while ago.

 

 

Do you think we've bought good defenders this summer?

Quick question:

Would those people who would like to see Allardyce replaced be happy with Redknapp coming in?

The teams decent performance under Roeder was due to the lift you normally get around a football club when the manager changes. We even had a decent run under Souness for the first 10 games or so. The team (inc. manager) should've been judged on what they achieved for a full season and the full transfer window. That is what SA has to improve upon. The 'better than 7th' thing is not being honest with the circumstances imo.

Think we should play Roz at the back, we'll need a bit of pace against this lot.

Michael Essien

No mention of CM in the OP though....

Micah Richards?

........................Given

Beye..........Roz.............Cacapa........Enrique

Milner........Geremi...........Emre..........Zog

...................Smith..........Owen

The thing is, just about any system is a compromise unless you have a managerial giant such as AW or SAF. And most circumstamces cannot be scripted, so clubs need to adapt quickly to the unexpected. In real life as opposed to football, it happens all the time; systems cannot be rigid, they have to adapted to the skills and aptitudes of the people available. It's not uncommon to find businesses similar on the outside, but with very different operating systems and corporate cultures.

 

So, most clubs have to compromise. Levy at Spurs took his advice from Alan Sugar who told him that he (Sugar), knew little about football and that he (Levy) would be the same and should have an experienced football person as his right hand man. That's where the DoF role at Spurs grew from, though it might be said that Venables was a DoF when he was known as CEO in the early 80s and Doug Livermore and Ray Clemence were in charge.

 

I'm a bit surprised at the hostility among football followers towards the DoF system. It's not surprising that managers and therefore pundits and "experts" themselves are opposed to it though. We're all used to naive and ignorant Club Chairmen, and unless we're living on the moon, none of us will be ignorant of some of the excesses of all-powerful managers at clubs from the top of the game to the bottom. How many of the managers you've encountered albeit at a distance, really inspire you with their clarity of thought, man-management skills, tactical insight, honesty and so on? How many of them have been great coaches but stretched beyond their abilities when asked to manage? Ignorant chairmen and unsophisticated managers is the basic combination that most clubs have used since the game began. I was going to say wide-boy managers but it would be unfair, but plenty of them have in the past been wide-boy types. And yes unsophisticated is an unfair generalisation where some are concerned, but....

 

Which leads back to Spurs. Who on earth, in terms of big-name managers would have joined them 3 years ago? No-one. OK Santini did, but putting Jol in as 1st team coach with a more limited remit than a traditional manager, working within a DoF system, makes sense to me. Jol's no slouch as a coach, but by the same token, he's had his fair share of detractors and doubters; and the criticisms made of him have been analytical and precise - not knee-jerk criticisms. The people that put him there decided he needed to be replaced, so they sought out a replacement. That's their job. I don't feel sorry for Jol - he's been paid off handsomely and now Spurs have a man with a better track-record. Jol was probably the best they could have expected at the time and now they've improved on him... Time will tell on that one.

 

Anyway that's enough. I'm a Spurs fan and a guest here so I won't go on except to say that of course the founders of Spurs were inspired by a Northumbrian, and I've just had a fantastic week's holiday with my kids visiting places like Alnwick and Amble, and loved every minute of it, just as I used to as a kid.

 

Adios and if you have to finish above us then I hope we're fifth again.

 

 

 

Good post, it'll be wasted on here though.

 

People need to realise football is much bigger than the first team and to transform this club it'll take more than one man to do everything, do people honestly think fat Sam will sort our youth system out so we can attract other clubs youngsters like the other big clubs do? When was the last time a young British lad left another clubs set up for ours?

 

Johnnypd also makes a good post when he talks about Milne and how we would have been better off keeping him on and getting him to help run the other side of the club, we didn't though and sacked everyone, destroying all of Sir Bobby's good work and then had to go to the trouble of getting another manager in to build it up again, he didn't work out so they were all sacked and Roeder was expected to completely change the club, when he took charge the club had one scout on it's books, for a so called big club that's f****** shocking.

 

Look at the jobs both Ramos and Allardyce have taken on this season and fat Sam has a lot more work ahead of him out of the two, Ramos will walk into Spurs and only have to worry about the first team squad, their youth team (that has been buying some top youngsters) scouts etc have all been taken care of by Comolli, Allardyce on the other hand will have to come here and transform the lot himself while trying to coach the first team squad and focus on picking up 3 points every week, it's too big of a job for one man and he won't get the 8 years he had at Bolton to get it right either.

Very logical, probably why you haven't had any replies..... maybe BSA has plans to employ various people to take over those aspects of the job anyway.

 

Mine is carved from solid ivory.

 

With gold lettering.

 

That's not your PC, it's the piano.

:-)

Ashley and Mort have done a brilliant job with the club up to now - SJH was convinced about Ashley, and so far, he has proved to be right ; as some of you know, I know Sir John and am certain that until he had health problems in the mid-late 90s, he was doing a fine job as Chairman...

I was never a fan of the Shepherd Board, and I believe NUFC fans have been really lucky to have Ashley & Mort on board. Yes, they will want a profit in the end, but I do believe they have the best interests of the Club(and fans) at heart, and I believe Mike Ashley just wants to enjoy his money - he certainly seems to be doing that, and I just hope we can win something soon because I reckon he would be a dyed-in-the-wool Black & White after sampling what that would mean to the Club & fans - if we did, just watch the sort of investment Sam would get then...!!!

To date, both owner & Chairman have done everything we could have asked - one has paid off a huge debt and the other has run the club in an exemplary manner.

 

I'm really pleased with what they have done - a very big 'Thank you' is in order.

 

Really ?

 

Can you answer something for me, and I'm sure quite a few people may also be interested [but may ignore the reply if it doesn't suit them].

 

Why did Sir John Hall - as major shareholder along with his son - allow, agree or maybe even choose - the appointment of Souness ?

 

I would also like to say that you would have a lot to do to convince me that the Halls simply wouldn't have sold to anyone who offered the going rate ie your comment that "he was convinced by Ashley" ?

 

 

 

 

 

Once SJH stepped away from being stand-in Chairman in 98(after the NOTW debacle), he stopped having any direct day-to-day involvement with the club ; I am not going to go into detail(it is very personal and I believe Sir John & his wife wish to draw a veil over the whole affair)as I wish to respect SJH's privacy, but  I was given to understand that he DID wish to continue as Chairman AFTER the Wembley defeat with Dalglish - unfortunately, events prevented this from happening ; I will not enlarge any further on that matter...

He then stepped away from direct involvement, with one exception - that was to 'encourage' the Board to get moving & appoint Bobby Robson just over a year later. He did NOT use his shareholding to do that.

 

He had no involvement, so far as I am aware, in the appointment of Souness or Roeder.That was down to Shepherd & the other Board members.

 

As for the sale of his holding, he had wanted out for a while, but he did NOT sell until he had had a long discussion with Mike Ashley - if he had only been interested in getting the dosh, he would have left all that to the Lawyers etc - he definitely was of the opinion that MA was genuine about wanting the club for reasons other than a fast buck.

 

You are entitled to your opinion about whether he sold for the 'right' reasons or not - I cannot prove or disprove it either way, but you should currently be happy about the way Ashley & Mort are running the club as compared to the previous regime - are you

 

I will be happy if Ashley backs the managers and shows the ambition that Sir John [and his son and Shepherd] showed, which I've stated many many times. This appears to fall on deaf ears, yours too, if the above post is anything to go by.

 

I accept he stepped away from day to day involvement, this is fairly obvious, but I simply cannot believe that someone holding a mega million value in a business, left the single biggest and most important decision to someone else with a smaller shareholding. I'm sorry, but it simply doesn't wash. The part of your post I have highlighted I can accept, if true, which proves what myself and a few others ie Chez Given have been trying to tell quite a few others for a while now. But I still don't expect certain people to take such statements on board anyway.

 

As you can see, I am praising Sir John for what I think he did excellently, so there is certainly no axe to grind or no agenda here, simply putting across the facts as I see them and applying common sense. And I also don't believe for a moment that he would not have sold to the hedge fund, or anyone else if they had paid the price required.

 

I admire you for defending Sir John, but if I had such a big stake in a company like that, I wouldn't leave such decisions to other people.

 

As for the one reply so far other than mine, as I said, macca888 has spouted rubbish for years.

 

 

Is it possible that he left the decisions to protect his 'intersts' to Doug Hall? It might be hard to have any input (of value) on managerial appointments if you don't keep up with current affairs in football.

This isn't an opinion of mine, just trying to understand Merlins comments on SJH's lack of involvement.

Can see a good case for starting Smith upfront tbh. Better in the air, more physical and defends well from the front, all needed in away games. Who he is paired with is another debate but at least you know what your getting with Owen.

Think Kompany from HSV would make a very good DM. I believe he is originally a CB but is so comfortable with the ball i think he could play DM. Big too.

Him and Menez  if i'm daydreaming.

Not sure it would be ideal to start both Owen and Viduka as i'm not sure either of them will last 90 minutes. Without Smith or Ameobi on the bench i think it would be sensible to start Martins and let Viduka/Owen play 45-60 mins before being subbed for the other one.

Same goes for Emre/Barton.

CB is more interesting, Berbatov isn't bad in the air which will put pressure on Cacapa and Roz, if we put Taylor/Faye in there instead of Roz we lose pace at the back and distribution. T or F might give away silly fouls as well.

Milner/Geremi debate isn't so pressing imo. Their left side is likely to be Lee and LB who's right footed iirc and Bale atLW who isn't quick. Either of our 2 could be comfortable against them i reckon.

Is Viduka injured then?

Menez from Monaco might be worth a look.  Wide man with flair , 20 yrs old. Played with Zoggy for France U21's i think. I'm sure he played against us for Sochaux.

When does his contract run out?  Is it the summer after, because if it is that will be about his value with 12 months left on it, clause or not.

 

My thoughts exactly.

 

Even if we do qualify for Europe and this clause isn't triggered, £6m plus a huge saving on wages would be a tempting offer for a player who wants to leave and will do so for nothing in 12 months. Liverpool accepted 8m in the same situation, and he's an older player with more injury questions around him now, meaning 6m is probably very realistic.

Agreed.

problem is the same as last season.

 

Our ball retention is below par, our attacking options are not varied enough, and consequently we are conceding the initiative to our opponents. Buying better defenders was never going to cure these faults, never in a million years. Defending begins from the front, and in these areas we are poor. He has bought some good defenders but if the players in front of them cannot shield them, even the best defenders find it difficult.

 

I started a whole thread on this, and said it all last season.

 

There was quite a lot of people who disagreed with me, one of them was that bulgarian bloke, wherever he is now. Another was geejon, gayjon etc

 

I wanted Allardyce for the job, but if he can't see this, I find it worrying.

 

 

Unbalanced view imo. If by saying better defenders won't help you defend then one could say better strikers won't help you score.

Defending is a team strategy but if a team gets in and around your box the better the quality of defenders you have the better chance you have of limiting your opponents options.

This is so obvious i don't actually think it was the point you wanted to make.

I agree about ball retention and i would guess that's why he bought Viduka.

I would also agree that defending from the front is very important and i suppose that was in his thinking when he bought Smith.

Incidentally, Italian strikers aren't renown for their defending from the front or being strong enough to hold the ball up, their defensive units however are often very effective.

You can't really appreciate the relationship until you read the whole interview in context.

 

http://www.itv-football.co.uk/story/0,19239,6145_2790866,00.html

Well, theres no more in that link than the OP wrt to 'The Owen Link' imo.

Dr Spec's view is biased which is completely reasonable, i still completely respect him as a poster.

The press want a story and one can be formed out of this, the quotes on their own though aren't inflammatory.

I think the club should have an effective press office where all interviews are supervised and approved before release though. All employees of the club should have to adhere to a code whereby they can't give quotes/interviews to the press without the clubs knowledge imo.