mrmojorisin75

what the fuck are you talking about? if intelligence was a factor we'd have more of the players you mention, the fact it's down to instinct is explained by the fact there are so few great players same in any sport, natural ability is what counts...some players can improve with training more than other some don't improve at all

have you played football? you're actually agreeing with what i'm saying just disagreeing over semantics...explain to me how "reading" the game is intelligence not instinct, if someone can't read a game you can't teach it...there are countless people who have great technical football skills but go nowhere 'cause they can't play the game...if it could be taught then everyone would be at it, therefore intelligence is not the correct term scholes etc... just have an awareness of what's around them, the better the awareness the better the player in all positions my original post, if you read it, was about use of the term football intelligence...too easily used for me, means fuck all

You don't think it means anything? fundamentally yeah, football moves too fast for intelligence to be a factor if you ask me - there's simply a level of natural reaction to a situation, an ability to see what's around you faster than the opposition or your peers that is not intelligence, it's instinct Rubbish, tbh. aye? rush and lineker, two of the best goalscorers in the 1980's were considered poachers, instinctive goalscorers, not intelligent players...were they or were they not? zindane was considered an intelligent player, when i watched him i always thought of how much he improvised in situations rather than planned, so to speak...that's instinct not intelligence lets call it "nouse" then eh ? aye, go on then

You don't think it means anything? fundamentally yeah, football moves too fast for intelligence to be a factor if you ask me - there's simply a level of natural reaction to a situation, an ability to see what's around you faster than the opposition or your peers that is not intelligence, it's instinct Rubbish, tbh. aye? rush and lineker, two of the best goalscorers in the 1980's were considered poachers, instinctive goalscorers, not intelligent players...were they or were they not? zindane was considered an intelligent player, when i watched him i always thought of how much he improvised in situations rather than planned, so to speak...that's instinct not intelligence

You don't think it means anything? fundamentally yeah, football moves too fast for intelligence to be a factor if you ask me - there's simply a level of natural reaction to a situation, an ability to see what's around you faster than the opposition or your peers that is not intelligence, it's instinct What about making timed runs? Thinking up imaginative free-kick routines on the spot? Picking the right pass? Leading/controlling a backline as a centre-half? Commanding your defence as a goalkeeper? Instructing your team-mates to make them a better unit? Being positionally sound (no matter where you play on the pitch)? Or adjusting to immediate changes made by the opposition on a set-play, or something of that nature, and effectively nullifying the threat? None of this can be called "intelligence", then? you can teach a monkey to....blah blah blah all instinct/reaction, some have better reactions than others, that's why we have different levels of ability some players will be more receptive to training than others, those are the ones who improve - we tend to sign the other ones lets not kid ourselves, we're talking here about considering say beardsley intelligent vs martins who many consider not..."intelligent" in that sense simply means that player has a different natural ability to the other, namely he's confortable on the ball and has the knack to see/make a defence splitting pass etc...doesn't mean he's more or less intelligent to me arguably the only real intelligent footballers are the makeleles/hargraves of this world who make up for their lack of natutal ability through application and training

You don't think it means anything? fundamentally yeah, football moves too fast for intelligence to be a factor if you ask me - there's simply a level of natural reaction to a situation, an ability to see what's around you faster than the opposition or your peers that is not intelligence, it's instinct

do you have any evidence, whatsoever, that these kids will care? they might be as much a set of pricks as the ones we're playing now...'cause they're young doesn't mean they have integrity - perhaps the opposite in many cases

are you for real, honestly?? Yes, so you're telling me if we run out with 11 individuals in front fo 52,000 miserable c***s like we have been doing recently we are going to stay in the league? Please tell me, are you for real, honestly? aye, the current group of millionaire mercenary c***s we've got dirtying (or not if they can't be arsed) the shirts each week really just need someone to tell them we need to be "united" eh? you can unite 11 turds, they still amount to dogshit

"football intelligence", another term bandied about at will by all and sundry like it means something and can be applied to footballers across the board hilarious

suppose it'd be a bit dodgy to point out that in a few months it might be us, relegation contenders in the championship building every hope we have on playing the "big boys"

are you for real, honestly??

Aaaaaaaaaand you win the mystery prize for being able to see what's right in front of everyones eyes!

We dont have many players willing to shoot never mind have a dig from far out but just because he & Oba are willing doesnt make them good at it. i don't think martins is, i think zog is, and i think he's very good at it...the others ARE hard to judge 'cause they never try, agreed repeat (til fade); he's dropped off this season probably due to the fact he has to run 75 yards and take on 6 players from left back in order to be able to get a shot on goal

Like his goal against Boro iirc. His shooting is getting worse & his freekick taking atm is joke. until this season it was one of the things that struck me most about the lad...hard, direct on target shooting to say he's one of the worst at the club is a travesty regardless of picking individual examples from one of the most difficult seasons in a 21 year olds life

Two of the worst strikers of long range shot at the club tbf but at least they are willing to shoot while others look for a pass. They will score the odd blockbuster due to the number long range hit & hopes they do. Total and utter rubbish and you know it.. They're no Pedro Mendes' of course, but I would be interested who you think would be more effective from outside of the box in our squad. I can only think of Emre and maybe Milner who aren't bad, nowhere near the majority of our squad as you claim.. They are poor at long range shots the fact they are in a small elite group willing to take on long range shots should not hide the fact. i'd love to show you a video of zogs shooting pre this season, invariably his shots were low, hard and on target his shooting his dipped with his confidence at being shat on week in week out while damien wanders about wondering what to do with his 70k

the role of beardsley was always overplayed for me,lee and sellars being just as important.(infact sellars the more important for cole for the first season up) Liverpool at home in particular. You know what I mean though Madras, Pedro was a dream for any striker to have as their partner, so unselfish, read the game superbly, everyone of his partners throughout his career have all said exactly the same. agree to a point i just think the pedro role is overplayed a bit. the football of the latter part of that season was the best i've seen in my time.the season we nearly won the championship was very good but it didn't have the buzz and movement of that first season up. i personally believe we need to start the search for a beardsley type player, it would rejuvenate the team to go far in the PL now you either need a top top class central midfield or a top top class striker - we can't really attract either, lets be honest, so it would be better to go for a very good supporting/unselfish striker who doesn't make as many headlines as opposed to another owen

owen point and the one about the way we've set up are good, as for intelligence don't confuse it with instinct where martins is concerned martins has many strengths but appreciation and knowledge of the game around him are not included

johnny, this what i'm saying some things you can't teach some things you can...we should have adapted our game to suit martins a long time ago, i.e. the type of forward passes we play and the areas into which we play them etc... i actually thought allradyce would have enough nouse to do that but he apparently thought a left footed striker would make a good right winger train martins day in day out how to use his pace effectively and coach the rest of the team to play to that strength we'd be laughing, we've done neither and NO-ONE is laughing are they?

what is the answer long term? torres? tevez? rooney? seems to me these days the increasing idea is that football can only be bought, coaching and tactics appear to have little place (apologies everton and villa etc..) in martins we have a player who is limited (lets do away with the extremes eh?) yet at the same time devastating...you talk about building teams around people, we've got one...shame he's not michael owen if oba had had a modicum of coaching to draw out his strengths the last 18 months and our "coaches" knew how to get the best of him we'd not be in the position we are now easiest thing in the world to blame players without thinking; kelvin koogan, fat sam allardyce, glib roeder et al have a lot to answer for as so called professionals...when oba starts scoring at his next club we'll all wonder what went wrong for parallels see andy cole pre man u, couldn't play for shit but he was taught where to be and how to score - 41 goals one season tells it's own story, a limited yet effective player

A fundamental error that he quickly accepted he had made. I don't expect that you'll ever stop referencing it from now on though, probably applying it to everyone and anyone who dares to criticise the previous board. not the sort of error that people who know owt about the club would make, I suspect it was all just through eagerness to slate FS for something, or anything, which is the point. I've said the previous board made mistakes, they must have done, otherwise we would have won the European Cup. My point is that replacing them would be very difficult and so far the actions - or non action of Ashley and Mort, in particular the very definite feeling that they have operated a "sell to buy" policy is a very dangerous one and one that any board with ambition would not pursue, especially at the lower spending levels that we have operated at since they came. I think instead of claiming that I have a go at anyone who dares to criticise the board, people would be better off taking a more objective look at the current one, and look a bit more carefully at the facts I back up my comments with, which most definitely show that they in fact did a lot better than a lot of people claim. I suspect more than a few people may be realising this by now but just won't admit it. Edit. I have no intention of bringing this up with SJ again, now he has acknowledged his error, because you can't get fairer than that. Any fair minded person couldn't criticize the current board for their spending on players since they took over the club. I wouldn't have trusted Allardyce, a manager they inherited, to spend a large lump of my cash either. The time to judge the current board will be at the end of the summer transfer spending frenzy when their true intentions for the club will be known. Always assuming we stay up of course. NE5, you use the word a lot in your posts, could you quantify what you consider "ambition" in football, particularly with reference to NUFC what is ambition to you, i'm honestly interested Ambition ? Competing at the level we should be competing at. Buying the quality of players we should be buying. Setting high standards and seriously trying our best to win the trophies. Don't mistake this for saying we should always be breaking transfer records, Rob Lee and Barry Venison were 2 of the best pound for pound buys we've made in recent years, but we should be prepared to do it, just like the other top clubs do. And if it means outbidding the likes of Liverpool then so be it, after all we should be aiming to beat these clubs, we wil never be better than them if we don't have players that they want themselves. Included speculating in there. I don't accept a club like Newcastle should operate a "sell to buy" policy. Our fanbase is our guarantee, if a player comes along that we can't turn down then get him and make the sale later to accomodate him, not the other way round. i wholeheartedly agree with the "make it happen" approach to transfers...money talks and bullshit walks, i don't understand the newfound "we can't sign anyone" theory, it's bollocks, money makes it happen my fundamental problem with what you say is what you (and others) potentially consider ambition for NUFC now, in 2008... turn back the clock to how fast our ambition changed positively in the early '90's...seems to me nobody can accept the change to our diminished ambition now we have one hope for progress; the youth system that the board are talking about is implemented and comes to fruition over time, that's it...there's nothing else - the failure of the last board, to me, was to fail to identify they couldn't compete simply through finance and as admirable as their efforts may have been they were doomed to failure the fact is the established 4 will take a great deal of opposing and so far as i can see only villa show the potential to do it as they recognise their "limitations"..spurs will collapse under the weight of their own finances and expectation as we did money will have to play it's part as you point out but it's not the be all and end all of ambition

you realise we're playing liverpool right?

ooooooooooooooooooooooh...close to the bone dude! True though well, yeah...

ooooooooooooooooooooooh...close to the bone dude!

charlie couldn't be left out again could he? could he? i mean to what possible end?

as big a critic of the 2008 keegan as i am this is a game that's made for him, we'll win and i wouldn't be surprised if we buried them big tme