fredbob

Delighted for Hughton, think he's done an excellent job and is a likeable fella to boot. He's definintely starting to win me over, obviously this squad is much much better than everyone else and it's hard to discount that when you look at how we're doing this season but the thing that I like about him is that a couple of times this season we've gone through poor spells and he's managed use his skill as a manager to lift the players again. He's also made some pretty brave decisions for a rookie manager such as dropping Butt and he's also activiely showing that he's a learning as he goes by playing Guthrie in the centre, on top of all that he's made a few decent buys and shown that he has an eye for a player. I obviously have my concerns with the Premiership next season because its a completey different ball game with 7-8 teams who can quite easily spank you 5-0, but Im starting to think he definitely deserves a chance, it would be nice to see if we could nurture a good manager like we've started to nurture a few young players!

Fine, you're right. His interview with Gibson made him sound a complete selfish curnt. Where did I say that? Harper will start next season as a first choice premier league keeper. He's never been in that position in his whole career. So relegation has been good for him in the long term. I'm sure Shay Given isn't looking back thinking "why did i leave?" just yet. The point was he was talking about the club as a whole maybe benefiting from the clearout following our drop, not his own career. I'm sure he's chuffed that Shay upped sticks, that said though, going by parts of that interview I think he feels he genuinly has a battle on his hands to hold off Krul and Foster. /It was really good to hear him speak about Foster like that (and gave even more credence to that Norwich fan in the other thread), glad he seems to think the club will do it's best to hold onto him too. Not "the" point, "your" point. "My" point was we all bring our own circumstances with us when we look at a situation. Does Harper see us as better off? It would seem so. Does Given? Probably not. Does Hughton? Probably. Keegan? Probably not. Ashley/Llambias? Definitley. Me, having seen us promoted last time around and in the Champions league several times over before starting our slow descent? Not yet. My little cousin who went to his first match in 2007 and has never seen us win so many games in his life? I'm afraid so. It's very much a personal thing whether you're happier at Newcastle now than you have been in the past. You must have been hallucinating. It was twice. Thrice!

some people may not like it, but what is good enough for Chelsea, manU, Liverpool and their players indiscretions is good enough for Newcastle. Point about Craig Bellamy is also relevant. The team and the club sufferred. The point about principles is that they are not principles if you abandon them just because sticking to them would make your life more difficult/inconvenient. Yes the club may suffer if we got rid of AC, but we should decide whether the alleged behaviour is the sort of thing that we want to condone. If not, then we should get rid, even if we suffer. Which is fair enough if the rest of the football clubs adhered to the same principles, which they wont' and/or don't. As it stands if we get rid of Carrol then it serves absolutely no purpose whatsoever. None. We uphold a moral code that no one else will, no one learns, no message gets sent out. "Newcastle united won't take any of your shit, but most clubs who want you will..." Getting rid is a lose, lose and lose situation.

Got to keep him I'm afraid, in reality I think he should go, but unfortunately football doesnt really operate in the same way that society does whereby someone who does wrong gets punished and shunned for future employment etc. In reality 80% of the jobs out there are replaceable, theres always someone more willing and more skillful to take your place for free so the moral code is a lot easier to uphold, in football however players are considered assests, sacking aplayer serve no purpose whatsoever as the player will be happily snapped up by another club. In short the club doesnt benefit whatsoever by sacking him, but can benefit massively by keeping. Its a no brainer Im afriad. Unfortunately.

I thought if you were commenting on the atmosphere at games and the sentiments towards Ashley then you'd be someone that was going to games. Talking to people in the pubs afterwards and that. Not a soopafan dig or owt, bu you've got no basis for asking question 6. Well,let me tell you this. Living on the other side of the world doesnt make me any less of a fan than those who have season tickets to SJP. That comment is just blatantly ridiculous. In fact, I probably get to see more NUFC games televised here than you do over in the UK. You might want to remember that there are many other fans on this forum who are in the same situation as me and probably wouldnt take your comments lightly. You might like to know that I have had a heavy involvement with NUFC matters for many years and have plenty of contacts through the club over those years. Most of your replies to my questions were quite interesting and whilst I agree with some and disagree with most, this is a forum of opinions for world wide supporters of the club and you should be wary of making comments regarding other fans opinions, even if they do live far away. With regard to question 6, I think the majority of posters on this forum will readily admit that protests against Ashley have diminished over time at games, whether they like it or not. Furthermore, I cannot think of a single fan whom isnt pleased, surprised and elated that after a difficult period, Newcastle United are currently top of the CCC. I would say that you are certainly in the minority. I never for one second suggested it made you any less of a fan. I'm just saying people in and around the stadium have a clearer picture of what the feeling is toward Ashley in and around the stadium. I don't see how that could be at all contentious. nothing to get defensive about. There's not been any 'protests' since the Hull game last seasonff. I don't agree that there's been any diminishment in the hatred of Ashley since the opening game against West Brom. Your last sentence is absurd. Yoiu could as easily say I cannot think of a single rape victim whom isnt pleased, surprised and elated that after being visciously raped, they are still alive. First of all, I dont think Ashley really cares anymore what the minority think, despite comments by Llanbiase recently. The team is performing and getting results and despite all the past problems, there is still 40 odd thousand turning up at SJP for every home game which is way way above his wildest expectations at the start of the season. This is going round in circles. It's not a minority Secondly, the comment regarding being happy with our current situation as a football club compared to a rape victim is non sensical. How the hell can you make such comparisons is beyond me. I know Bill Shankly once said that football is a matter of life and death but violation of a human body as a comparison to the demise of a football club is just plain idiotic. Do you write for the daily mail? Have a sense of humour man. I was highlighting how pathetically grateful you come across for the smallest of mercies with the most extreme analogy. I was joking about the holocaust with the lads at the match the other night too. I am basically a positive person and I dont like to dwell on the past. What is done is done and as someone else said previously on trhis thread, it is time to move on which appears to be what the club is trying to do, without over committing itself financially. To be unhappy to be top of the CCC at this present time after a couple of years of total mayhem is just plain daft. Again, pathetically grateful. You sound like a cuckolded husband thanking his wife for letting him smell her battered gash after she took on the local rugby team. I actually have read some comments from posters on this forum who would be happy to stay in the CCC because we are winning games, although I can say I dont agree with them. Too much negativity and hatred is blinding too many people on here and it is well and truly time to back the club, from top right through to the tea lady, if we are to get back to where we once were under SBR. It will take a few years but if we are financially healthy and have a committed youthful playing staff eager to impress, then I can see the club back up there with the likes of Everton, Villa and even Spurs. Where we were 3 years ago Where we were 3 years ago???????? 1..On the brink of financial meltdown under Shepherd!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 2. Having aging, overpaid, injury prone unmotivated superstars like Viduka, Owen, Luque, Boumsong, Dyer, Insomnia and Martins failing to produce week in, week out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 3..A succession of failed managers like Allardyce, Souness and Roeder in charge!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yeah, I would really love to be back in those days of being threatened with relegation year after year. 2005/2006 5 Tottenham Hotspur 7 Newcastle United 11 Everton 16 Aston Villa And before you say it, I tend to put the past behind me and look to the future. Being top of the CCC allows me to think the future is better than what is was. You obviously are up set at being top of the CCC? Maybe that could be because Ashley and Co. are proving you wrong? Maybe you live too much in the past? Maybe you wish you were a supporter of MiddlesBrough instead of NUFC and be happy to have failed to achieve a top 6 position in the CCC therefore failing to achieve an opportunity of immediate promotion back to the PL? Maybe you are just a pessimist? My username is descriptive of my general outlook mate. We've not finished this low down the league in 18 years man. Mmmmmmm that cherry you just picked was tasty. To quote Macca I can't see how it's cherry picking to reply where we were in relation to them in the seasons before Ashley arrived. Even in 06/07 we were only 2 spots off Villa. If he gets us back to those kinds of positions then he'll have got us back where we were before he arrived. Then he can start looking to improve things and I'll give him credit. Not until then though. The season before Ashley arrived Roeder had scraped 13th (to his credit i suppose) with one of the worst squads Ive seen in many many years, Babayaro, Carr, Moore, Taylor, Duff, Parker, Emre, Miler, Oba and Shola. Not to mention the likes of Huntington, Edgar, Gooch etc. Who was responsilbe for this?? Still not acknowledging that at the time, whislt Everton, Spurs and Villa hadnt a chieved a great deal, they were in a much better position financially to expand and invest which they have done and it shows. Had we carried on investing to keep up with them where eactly would we of been financially??

I thought if you were commenting on the atmosphere at games and the sentiments towards Ashley then you'd be someone that was going to games. Talking to people in the pubs afterwards and that. Not a soopafan dig or owt, bu you've got no basis for asking question 6. Well,let me tell you this. Living on the other side of the world doesnt make me any less of a fan than those who have season tickets to SJP. That comment is just blatantly ridiculous. In fact, I probably get to see more NUFC games televised here than you do over in the UK. You might want to remember that there are many other fans on this forum who are in the same situation as me and probably wouldnt take your comments lightly. You might like to know that I have had a heavy involvement with NUFC matters for many years and have plenty of contacts through the club over those years. Most of your replies to my questions were quite interesting and whilst I agree with some and disagree with most, this is a forum of opinions for world wide supporters of the club and you should be wary of making comments regarding other fans opinions, even if they do live far away. With regard to question 6, I think the majority of posters on this forum will readily admit that protests against Ashley have diminished over time at games, whether they like it or not. Furthermore, I cannot think of a single fan whom isnt pleased, surprised and elated that after a difficult period, Newcastle United are currently top of the CCC. I would say that you are certainly in the minority. I never for one second suggested it made you any less of a fan. I'm just saying people in and around the stadium have a clearer picture of what the feeling is toward Ashley in and around the stadium. I don't see how that could be at all contentious. nothing to get defensive about. There's not been any 'protests' since the Hull game last seasonff. I don't agree that there's been any diminishment in the hatred of Ashley since the opening game against West Brom. Your last sentence is absurd. Yoiu could as easily say I cannot think of a single rape victim whom isnt pleased, surprised and elated that after being visciously raped, they are still alive. First of all, I dont think Ashley really cares anymore what the minority think, despite comments by Llanbiase recently. The team is performing and getting results and despite all the past problems, there is still 40 odd thousand turning up at SJP for every home game which is way way above his wildest expectations at the start of the season. This is going round in circles. It's not a minority Secondly, the comment regarding being happy with our current situation as a football club compared to a rape victim is non sensical. How the hell can you make such comparisons is beyond me. I know Bill Shankly once said that football is a matter of life and death but violation of a human body as a comparison to the demise of a football club is just plain idiotic. Do you write for the daily mail? Have a sense of humour man. I was highlighting how pathetically grateful you come across for the smallest of mercies with the most extreme analogy. I was joking about the holocaust with the lads at the match the other night too. I am basically a positive person and I dont like to dwell on the past. What is done is done and as someone else said previously on trhis thread, it is time to move on which appears to be what the club is trying to do, without over committing itself financially. To be unhappy to be top of the CCC at this present time after a couple of years of total mayhem is just plain daft. Again, pathetically grateful. You sound like a cuckolded husband thanking his wife for letting him smell her battered gash after she took on the local rugby team. I actually have read some comments from posters on this forum who would be happy to stay in the CCC because we are winning games, although I can say I dont agree with them. Too much negativity and hatred is blinding too many people on here and it is well and truly time to back the club, from top right through to the tea lady, if we are to get back to where we once were under SBR. It will take a few years but if we are financially healthy and have a committed youthful playing staff eager to impress, then I can see the club back up there with the likes of Everton, Villa and even Spurs. Where we were 3 years ago Where we were 3 years ago???????? 1..On the brink of financial meltdown under Shepherd!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 2. Having aging, overpaid, injury prone unmotivated superstars like Viduka, Owen, Luque, Boumsong, Dyer, Insomnia and Martins failing to produce week in, week out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 3..A succession of failed managers like Allardyce, Souness and Roeder in charge!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yeah, I would really love to be back in those days of being threatened with relegation year after year. 2005/2006 5 Tottenham Hotspur 7 Newcastle United 11 Everton 16 Aston Villa And before you say it, I tend to put the past behind me and look to the future. Being top of the CCC allows me to think the future is better than what is was. You obviously are up set at being top of the CCC? Maybe that could be because Ashley and Co. are proving you wrong? Maybe you live too much in the past? Maybe you wish you were a supporter of MiddlesBrough instead of NUFC and be happy to have failed to achieve a top 6 position in the CCC therefore failing to achieve an opportunity of immediate promotion back to the PL? Maybe you are just a pessimist? My username is descriptive of my general outlook mate. We've not finished this low down the league in 18 years man. Mmmmmmm that cherry you just picked was tasty.

Id say it was more a case of those who are confusing our successes this season with a well run club and think Ashley has turned into Jack Walker because we bought a few bargain basement players in January, and those who want to see clear tangible evidence the club is heading in the right direction before they can forget about three years of half truths and abject mismanagement. You might think being top of this league is proof were heading in the right direction, but others think its a fluke and in the absence of any hard facts about what Ashleys plan was last summer youre in no position to say whats rational and what isnt. Ultimately time will settle this debate, and until its had its say perhaps you should get off your high horse. paragraph 1........what a few are saying is that without him we may not be here as the club was well on the way to being f***ed before he worked out his calculations on the back of a beermat somewhere. paeagraph 2..........if he should get off his high horse as time will settle this debate then maybe you ought to put your poisoned dagger away aswell. I dont have a poisoned dagger. I have point of view you dont like. so why should he get off his high horse because he has a pointof view you dont like. you are the one that said time would tell. Its not his POV on the fortunes of NUFC I dislike, but the misguided self regard that dismisses anyone who doesnt share it as irrational. Is that post supposed to be ironic? You might as well give yourself credit for it becasue Ive already called it. As for my beliefs that those who dont share my view are irrational, i say so becasue I see this argument as going one of 2 ways: i) yes the club is going in the right direction, some credit goes to Ashley, not much mind ii) no, the club is going in the wrong direction as it's down to Ashleys mismangment. They are both rational arguments, you have your beliefs and the justification of your beliefs, yet somehow a third category has appeared which is: iii) Yes the club is going in the right direction but Ashley gets no credit whatsoever. It's a viewpoint which to my view is slightly irrational and is equally as irrational as saying the club is going in the worng direction but Ashley is doing a good job.

I wonder how many pages we would have if the title was "Is the club going in the right direction?" Ultimately we either are or aren't.

I’d say it was more a case of those who are confusing our ‘successes’ this season with a well run club and think Ashley has turned into Jack Walker because we bought a few bargain basement players in January, and those who want to see clear tangible evidence the club is heading in the right direction before they can forget about three years of half truths and abject mismanagement. You might think being top of this league is proof we’re heading in the right direction, but others think it’s a fluke and in the absence of any hard facts about what Ashley’s plan was last summer you’re in no position to say what’s rational and what isn’t. Ultimately time will settle this debate, and until it’s had its say perhaps you should get off your high horse. Ouch! I wont count this season as a success. But I will acknowledge the good that has come out from this season, for example the lower dwage bill, the stability off the field, the decent performances, the performances of our players, the fact that we've kept some very good players when it would of been easier to sell them, the transfer window which seemed to be organised and applied a criteria which the club had been harping on about for a couple of years. You're right, time is the decider here but look at the state of your post, complete negativity throughout it, not one iota of credit, i'll give you a guess which group you belong in. And for what its worth I know a lot of what I have said is symptomtic of relegation and therefore not to Ashleys credit, but if you look a little bit closer you'll see a few things which are to his credit. If its alright with you I think I'll stay on my "high horse".

If you actually go through this thread you have 2 basic sides, people vehementely against Ashley who have no interest in giving Ashley any credit whatsoever or even acknowledging anyhting creditable he's done and people who are trying to point out the more balanced view that Ashley has actually done some good which is obviously offset with the bad he's done. There is absolutely no one saying Ashley has done a brilliant job yet the majority of those against him are admament he's done nothing whatsoever that is credit worthy. One of those groups seems far less rational than the other. Dont Chelsea owe £600m to Roman? Not sure exactly but dont the bin dippers owe similar to external creditors? The performaces of the respective teams are irrelavant when you actually look at the dynamics of the debt, that is what many people are trying to point out when they talk about Ashley and the loan he's given to the club.

So it's his fault when it goes wrong and someone else is responsible when it goes right? It was nowt to do with the previous Board when the team was doing well in the PL but it was their fault when things took a turn for the worse, or even when things didn't get better than 3rd. Surely you remember that? Why should it be any different for Ashley? In any case, the facts show quite clearly he's taken the club backwards since he took over and that's his fault no matter how you want to ignore it. The strong position we find ourselves in currently is nothing to do with Ashley, it is in spite of Ashley. All Ashley sanctioned in the summer was the sale or release of a number of players, the only players who came in were either loan signings or free signings. I'm talking here about Danny Simpson (loan), Peter Lovenkrands (Free), Zurab Khizanishvili (Loan) and Marlon Harewood (Loan). He also failed to bring in an established manager. Basically, Ashley didn't do anything permanent to improve the position of the team/club until January came around. He made the decision to do something in January only because : 1. The manager and the playing/coaching staff had performed very well despite being handicapped by Ashley and his undermining of the football club. This saw the club top of the Championship, so a return to the higher revenue of the PL suddenly looked to be possible. 2. Ashley had once again failed to offload the club so he was left with either speculating in an attempt to recover PL money, or flounder due to a thin squad. The small squad was thanks to Ashley and he didn't give a damn about that until he failed to sell the club, he'd have handed that crap situation over to someone else. The man's a plank. Simple as that. It's about time people stopped trying to defend the indefensible because it's laughable. Ok, I guess part of this is applicable to my question so I'll take this. A couple of points I'd add to this is that the he he also allowed the manager to keep players rather than peddling them like he could could of done, also the release of some players is a very good thing, its eased the pressure off the clubs wage bill alot, something which was imperative to our progess. I persoannly would say that Ashley allowing Hughton to keep a strong nucleus of squad who could easily of been peddeled have directly lead us to be in the strong position we find ourselves in, we also find ourselves in a decent position financially which is also to Ashleys credit. Having said I do agree about the manager situation and also his inactivity during time of sale. Overall, Id say he is leading us in the right direction, whther he meant it or not. Having to peddle players to get them off the wage bill was a situation of his own making. That doesn't mean I'm not glad to see the back of some of these wasters, just that this isn't an argument in favour of Ashley given the situation was caused by him in the first place. The same comment applies to the idea of the club being in a good position financially. Ashley should have taken the correct decision(s) that would have seen the club retain PL status and then got rid of those under-performers and sick-notes (most of us know who) from a position of still being in the PL. That would have qualified as "decent work" though still a long way to go. The position we are in now really is in spite of him, he doesn't know what he's doing, which I think you possibly acknowledge from your ending comment above. It wasnt his own making at all. The wage bill need leaning out irrepspective of what division we were in. If you belive that Ashley could of got rid of many of those players whilst in the Prem then thats your opinion and pretty much the lynchpin to your entire argument, in my opinion we'd of found it very difficult to shift players who were picking up top wedge with mimimum effort whilst getting to play in front of 50k, no player had any incentive to leave bar Owen. As I say, I'll credit him partially for cutting the wage bill without compromising our performance in the season, I'll credit him for keeping a strong nucleus of squad and I'll also credit him for addressing problems in our squad at January, I'll also credit him for spending money very sensibily. I wouldnt exactly say he didnt know what he was doing but what I will say is that the cutting of the wage bill (which i think is the single most important thing for the future of this club) isnt all his doing and is rather a sympton of relegation. Either way we are definitely going in the right direction. You either fail to appreciate or acknowledge that every player in the squad was for sale at the end of last season. We were left with the players which other clubs didn't want, either because they were deemed unproven or not good enough, and/or on far too much money that no other club was prepared to match. It certainly wasn't down to Ashley choosing to keep the nucleus of a decent squad. You've pulled that out your arse. Hughton has already said he was given permission to keep the likes of Coloccini and Guttierez as well as Steven Taylor who has a decent rep and was linked with Everton. That's 2 Aregentinian internationals heading for the world cup who you are saying no club in the world wanted.Yeh I think I will chose to "ignore "that little bit. It's prett strartling that quite a few people are dogmaticallly determined to ensure certain people get no credit whatsoever. I'm well aware of the shit things he's brought to the club but I'm also aware of the good he's done as well.

So it's his fault when it goes wrong and someone else is responsible when it goes right? It was nowt to do with the previous Board when the team was doing well in the PL but it was their fault when things took a turn for the worse, or even when things didn't get better than 3rd. Surely you remember that? Why should it be any different for Ashley? In any case, the facts show quite clearly he's taken the club backwards since he took over and that's his fault no matter how you want to ignore it. The strong position we find ourselves in currently is nothing to do with Ashley, it is in spite of Ashley. All Ashley sanctioned in the summer was the sale or release of a number of players, the only players who came in were either loan signings or free signings. I'm talking here about Danny Simpson (loan), Peter Lovenkrands (Free), Zurab Khizanishvili (Loan) and Marlon Harewood (Loan). He also failed to bring in an established manager. Basically, Ashley didn't do anything permanent to improve the position of the team/club until January came around. He made the decision to do something in January only because : 1. The manager and the playing/coaching staff had performed very well despite being handicapped by Ashley and his undermining of the football club. This saw the club top of the Championship, so a return to the higher revenue of the PL suddenly looked to be possible. 2. Ashley had once again failed to offload the club so he was left with either speculating in an attempt to recover PL money, or flounder due to a thin squad. The small squad was thanks to Ashley and he didn't give a damn about that until he failed to sell the club, he'd have handed that crap situation over to someone else. The man's a plank. Simple as that. It's about time people stopped trying to defend the indefensible because it's laughable. Ok, I guess part of this is applicable to my question so I'll take this. A couple of points I'd add to this is that the he he also allowed the manager to keep players rather than peddling them like he could could of done, also the release of some players is a very good thing, its eased the pressure off the clubs wage bill alot, something which was imperative to our progess. I persoannly would say that Ashley allowing Hughton to keep a strong nucleus of squad who could easily of been peddeled have directly lead us to be in the strong position we find ourselves in, we also find ourselves in a decent position financially which is also to Ashleys credit. Having said I do agree about the manager situation and also his inactivity during time of sale. Overall, Id say he is leading us in the right direction, whther he meant it or not. Having to peddle players to get them off the wage bill was a situation of his own making. That doesn't mean I'm not glad to see the back of some of these wasters, just that this isn't an argument in favour of Ashley given the situation was caused by him in the first place. The same comment applies to the idea of the club being in a good position financially. Ashley should have taken the correct decision(s) that would have seen the club retain PL status and then got rid of those under-performers and sick-notes (most of us know who) from a position of still being in the PL. That would have qualified as "decent work" though still a long way to go. The position we are in now really is in spite of him, he doesn't know what he's doing, which I think you possibly acknowledge from your ending comment above. It wasnt his own making at all. The wage bill need leaning out irrepspective of what division we were in. If you belive that Ashley could of got rid of many of those players whilst in the Prem then thats your opinion and pretty much the lynchpin to your entire argument, in my opinion we'd of found it very difficult to shift players who were picking up top wedge with mimimum effort whilst getting to play in front of 50k, no player had any incentive to leave bar Owen. As I say, I'll credit him partially for cutting the wage bill without compromising our performance in the season, I'll credit him for keeping a strong nucleus of squad and I'll also credit him for addressing problems in our squad at January, I'll also credit him for spending money very sensibily. I wouldnt exactly say he didnt know what he was doing but what I will say is that the cutting of the wage bill (which i think is the single most important thing for the future of this club) isnt all his doing and is rather a sympton of relegation. Either way we are definitely going in the right direction.

So it's his fault when it goes wrong and someone else is responsible when it goes right? It was nowt to do with the previous Board when the team was doing well in the PL but it was their fault when things took a turn for the worse, or even when things didn't get better than 3rd. Surely you remember that? Why should it be any different for Ashley? In any case, the facts show quite clearly he's taken the club backwards since he took over and that's his fault no matter how you want to ignore it. The strong position we find ourselves in currently is nothing to do with Ashley, it is in spite of Ashley. All Ashley sanctioned in the summer was the sale or release of a number of players, the only players who came in were either loan signings or free signings. I'm talking here about Danny Simpson (loan), Peter Lovenkrands (Free), Zurab Khizanishvili (Loan) and Marlon Harewood (Loan). He also failed to bring in an established manager. Basically, Ashley didn't do anything permanent to improve the position of the team/club until January came around. He made the decision to do something in January only because : 1. The manager and the playing/coaching staff had performed very well despite being handicapped by Ashley and his undermining of the football club. This saw the club top of the Championship, so a return to the higher revenue of the PL suddenly looked to be possible. 2. Ashley had once again failed to offload the club so he was left with either speculating in an attempt to recover PL money, or flounder due to a thin squad. The small squad was thanks to Ashley and he didn't give a damn about that until he failed to sell the club, he'd have handed that crap situation over to someone else. The man's a plank. Simple as that. It's about time people stopped trying to defend the indefensible because it's laughable. Ok, I guess part of this is applicable to my question so I'll take this. A couple of points I'd add to this is that the he he also allowed the manager to keep players rather than peddling them like he could could of done, also the release of some players is a very good thing, its eased the pressure off the clubs wage bill alot, something which was imperative to our progess. I persoannly would say that Ashley allowing Hughton to keep a strong nucleus of squad who could easily of been peddeled have directly lead us to be in the strong position we find ourselves in, we also find ourselves in a decent position financially which is also to Ashleys credit. Having said I do agree about the manager situation and also his inactivity during time of sale. Overall, Id say he is leading us in the right direction, whther he meant it or not.

It's because he doesn't really know what the hell he's doing, man. What on earth was the point in appointing Shearer, ffs? Is he really that deluded? It was a good decision when he didn't offer him the job permanently but I'd have been happier again had he gone out and appointed an experienced manager. Nowt against Hughton, who is doing a decent job under difficult circumstances. It does look like Ashley is getting better, but that's not saying much on previous performance. He needs someone like me to help him out. Here's something.... Mike, I already have a career job that I'll have to give up, but I love the club so I'll do it. I'll sign a 9 year employment contract with Newcastle United for £60k pa to help you out with your PR. Annual increases in line with inflation and a car will do it. You'll easily get that back from the increased attendance revenue just by me preventing Derek putting his foot in it every time he opens his mouth. hang on htl, wasn't the appointment very reminiscent of appointing another of our ex faves into the managers seat without any experience when fighting a relegation battle. Speak for yourself. I don't have any favourites, I grew out of that by about age 12, the club is all that is important. If the club is all that is important to you then I'm not sure how you can come to the conclusion that immediate success on the field is anyway near as important as survival off it?! You think I'm after IMMEDIATE success when I've been supporting this club since 1968? Mate, if you're going to reply at least think past the knee-jerk dig before you do it. I haven't demanded immediate success, or even just success, that's the game of those who wanted rid of the previous Board. You know, the people who weren't happy with 3 x top 5 finishes and with signing 3 players in 2003. They are the one's who were demanding success. I'm critical of Ashley and co because their decisions led directly to the club being relegated, therefore placing into jeopardy the very existence of the football club. Not being relegated from the PL last season is very much tied to the survival of the club but it happened, in reality there is a direct relationship between what happens on the field of play and what happens off it. However, my position on Ashley is obviously nothing to do with calls for immediate success. I guess you must mistakenly believe my annoyance that Ashley brought about relegation is somehow a call from me for immediate success. After saying that, I believe immediate promotion is definitely tied to the future of the club. You may disagree if you like. So going back to the title of the thread, why exactly do you think we are going in the wrong direction? I mean in your eyes the club is getting progessively worse and worse and has a very bleak future. Right? Here's some advice. Stick to what I did actually say. I know what you said, I'm just trying to draw out your views on the club's by asking a very relevant question, care to oblige? Genuinely interested to know if you have anything positive to say about the club in its current state. I addressed this earlier when I said the playing and coaching staff have been doing a great job this season despite Ashley. It's somewhere in the thread. That's not what the thread is about. Try again.

It's because he doesn't really know what the hell he's doing, man. What on earth was the point in appointing Shearer, ffs? Is he really that deluded? It was a good decision when he didn't offer him the job permanently but I'd have been happier again had he gone out and appointed an experienced manager. Nowt against Hughton, who is doing a decent job under difficult circumstances. It does look like Ashley is getting better, but that's not saying much on previous performance. He needs someone like me to help him out. Here's something.... Mike, I already have a career job that I'll have to give up, but I love the club so I'll do it. I'll sign a 9 year employment contract with Newcastle United for £60k pa to help you out with your PR. Annual increases in line with inflation and a car will do it. You'll easily get that back from the increased attendance revenue just by me preventing Derek putting his foot in it every time he opens his mouth. hang on htl, wasn't the appointment very reminiscent of appointing another of our ex faves into the managers seat without any experience when fighting a relegation battle. Speak for yourself. I don't have any favourites, I grew out of that by about age 12, the club is all that is important. If the club is all that is important to you then I'm not sure how you can come to the conclusion that immediate success on the field is anyway near as important as survival off it?! You think I'm after IMMEDIATE success when I've been supporting this club since 1968? Mate, if you're going to reply at least think past the knee-jerk dig before you do it. I haven't demanded immediate success, or even just success, that's the game of those who wanted rid of the previous Board. You know, the people who weren't happy with 3 x top 5 finishes and with signing 3 players in 2003. They are the one's who were demanding success. I'm critical of Ashley and co because their decisions led directly to the club being relegated, therefore placing into jeopardy the very existence of the football club. Not being relegated from the PL last season is very much tied to the survival of the club but it happened, in reality there is a direct relationship between what happens on the field of play and what happens off it. However, my position on Ashley is obviously nothing to do with calls for immediate success. I guess you must mistakenly believe my annoyance that Ashley brought about relegation is somehow a call from me for immediate success. After saying that, I believe immediate promotion is definitely tied to the future of the club. You may disagree if you like. So going back to the title of the thread, why exactly do you think we are going in the wrong direction? I mean in your eyes the club is getting progessively worse and worse and has a very bleak future. Right? Here's some advice. Stick to what I did actually say. I know what you said, I'm just trying to draw out your views on the club's by asking a very relevant question, care to oblige? Genuinely interested to know if you have anything positive to say about the club in its current state.

It's because he doesn't really know what the hell he's doing, man. What on earth was the point in appointing Shearer, ffs? Is he really that deluded? It was a good decision when he didn't offer him the job permanently but I'd have been happier again had he gone out and appointed an experienced manager. Nowt against Hughton, who is doing a decent job under difficult circumstances. It does look like Ashley is getting better, but that's not saying much on previous performance. He needs someone like me to help him out. Here's something.... Mike, I already have a career job that I'll have to give up, but I love the club so I'll do it. I'll sign a 9 year employment contract with Newcastle United for £60k pa to help you out with your PR. Annual increases in line with inflation and a car will do it. You'll easily get that back from the increased attendance revenue just by me preventing Derek putting his foot in it every time he opens his mouth. hang on htl, wasn't the appointment very reminiscent of appointing another of our ex faves into the managers seat without any experience when fighting a relegation battle. Speak for yourself. I don't have any favourites, I grew out of that by about age 12, the club is all that is important. If the club is all that is important to you then I'm not sure how you can come to the conclusion that immediate success on the field is anyway near as important as survival off it?! You think I'm after IMMEDIATE success when I've been supporting this club since 1968? Mate, if you're going to reply at least think past the knee-jerk dig before you do it. I haven't demanded immediate success, or even just success, that's the game of those who wanted rid of the previous Board. You know, the people who weren't happy with 3 x top 5 finishes and with signing 3 players in 2003. They are the one's who were demanding success. I'm critical of Ashley and co because their decisions led directly to the club being relegated, therefore placing into jeopardy the very existence of the football club. Not being relegated from the PL last season is very much tied to the survival of the club but it happened, in reality there is a direct relationship between what happens on the field of play and what happens off it. However, my position on Ashley is obviously nothing to do with calls for immediate success. I guess you must mistakenly believe my annoyance that Ashley brought about relegation is somehow a call from me for immediate success. After saying that, I believe immediate promotion is definitely tied to the future of the club. You may disagree if you like. So going back to the title of the thread, why exactly do you think we are going in the wrong direction? I mean in your eyes the club is getting progessively worse and worse and has a very bleak future. Right?

It's because he doesn't really know what the hell he's doing, man. What on earth was the point in appointing Shearer, ffs? Is he really that deluded? It was a good decision when he didn't offer him the job permanently but I'd have been happier again had he gone out and appointed an experienced manager. Nowt against Hughton, who is doing a decent job under difficult circumstances. It does look like Ashley is getting better, but that's not saying much on previous performance. He needs someone like me to help him out. Here's something.... Mike, I already have a career job that I'll have to give up, but I love the club so I'll do it. I'll sign a 9 year employment contract with Newcastle United for £60k pa to help you out with your PR. Annual increases in line with inflation and a car will do it. You'll easily get that back from the increased attendance revenue just by me preventing Derek putting his foot in it every time he opens his mouth. hang on htl, wasn't the appointment very reminiscent of appointing another of our ex faves into the managers seat without any experience when fighting a relegation battle. Speak for yourself. I don't have any favourites, I grew out of that by about age 12, the club is all that is important. If the club is all that is important to you then I'm not sure how you can come to the conclusion that immediate success on the field is anyway near as important as survival off it?!

Do you also fancy the £104m wage bill that comes with having the large number of promising youngsters on your books it takes to be able to find enough who can make the step up to the first team? To be fair I'd quite fancy the £235m turnover to go with it as well.

Lowering expectations isnt neccasarily a bad a thing, lowering ambition is. Having high expectations has been a big downfall for us as a club, an example being when we sacked SBR for finishing 5th, 5 years after saving us from relegation. It arguably paved the way for what was to come, no stability, no stable manager, influx of many players and countless pennies wasted. NUFC fans have been typecast for many years about there overly high expectations. Expectaitions should rise with progress, not vica versa. Robson had taken the team as far as he could take it, we were going backwards when he left but the club had ambitions to go forward. That was to do with the great job done by Robson along with the support of the Board of the day. Liverpool did the same when they sacked Hoolia. Chelsea have done the same in recent times. The reason it went wrong isn't because expectations of anybody were too high, it went wrong because the wrong man was appointed to take the place of Robson. Showing ambition like this is a good thing. Ashley can't even appoint and keep a recognised, proven manager of any stature at all. By the way, what you're describing above is expectations in the strict meaning of the word. What we have as Newcastle supporters is hope. Ashley has crushed it and he's crushed it by lowering the ambition of the club. To argue anything else in the face of the evidence is futile. See, I'm of the opinion that Robson had one more season left, we played terribly that season and were still in with a shout of CL footbball not 3(?) games away from the end of the season. Ive said this before and I understadn why its a contentious point but it stands in my opinon. Agreed, think that the board did support him well but did also let him down at some crucial times. I dont rememebr Houlliers tenure exactly but I'm sure he had longer, he didnt have to turn the club around as much as SBR did he didnt have them playing good football at times and he wasnt made a victim for his season(s) outisde the CL, one season was all i would of given SBR, at least enough time to get his removal properly planned, relegation was never going to be an issue with him in charge, not like it was with Souness. Chelsea have done the same but at the same time they can afford to do such things, I doubt they could had Roman not been the owner. Agreed about Ashley horrific appointments, but in my opinion that includes all of them. I think these decision have cost us our premiership status and there is no excuse for that. It may of crushed your hope but I honestly think theres good to come from this, be it a club becoing a more healtheir proposition for prospective buyers or even being healthy enough for Ashley to put his hand in his pocket (ultimate optimism) and take advantage of our healhty finances whilst other clubs struggle. I look back to clubs like Villa and Spurs and see similiarities between them and us when their chairman were tight and "unambitious", this frugality now had paid off and i think we may be in a similar situation. EDIT. Ignoring all the crap in that post, the main point I was trying to make was that expectaitions (in the strictest sense) was far too high and it cost us in the long run albeit thorugh the set of events that followed, hence why i think building expcations gradually will be a good thing for the club.

Lowering expectations isnt neccasarily a bad a thing, lowering ambition is. Having high expectations has been a big downfall for us as a club, an example being when we sacked SBR for finishing 5th, 5 years after saving us from relegation. It arguably paved the way for what was to come, no stability, no stable manager, influx of many players and countless pennies wasted. NUFC fans have been typecast for many years about there overly high expectations. Expectaitions should rise with progress, not vica versa.

Dim. Two big clubs doing well but potentailly being brought down by financial irresponsibilty, ring a bell?! Doubt it becasue you're dim. The rot started long ago, Ashley isn't excusable for mistakes he's made leading to our releagation but this "Militia" mentality you've got is pretty tiresome at times. Not really addressing the big picture here which is that we will be in a hell of a better position should we go up than we would be had we stayed up last year. (Note that isnt me crediting Ashley with this little snippet, just pointing it out). Cue non sensical retort. Or not. How are we in a better position going up than if we'd have stayed up last year? I think the only thing you can give the current regime credit for is cutting the wage bill down. And many would suggest it might have been better to have stayed in the Prem and done that. See, my opinion is that we would of found it difficult to shift players had we stayed up. If we had stayed up, alot of the players would have had no incentive to leave; they were playing premiership football in front of 50k every week and picking up top top wages with no effort. Dont get me wrong, there is no way in a million years Im giving Ashley credit for getting us relegated but I honestly think that it will have its benefits for us in the long run.

Always rated him, but I think he's benefitting so much from having someone else on the other wing, means he isnt being doubled up on at all times which is giving him more space and more freedom. Delighted for him.

Dim. Two big clubs doing well but potentailly being brought down by financial irresponsibilty, ring a bell?! Doubt it becasue you're dim. The rot started long ago, Ashley isn't excusable for mistakes he's made leading to our releagation but this "Militia" mentality you've got is pretty tiresome at times. Not really addressing the big picture here which is that we will be in a hell of a better position should we go up than we would be had we stayed up last year. (Note that isnt me crediting Ashley with this little snippet, just pointing it out). Cue non sensical retort. Or not.

It goes to show just how much Ashley has managed to lower expectations. I would rather get relegated trying to play football than spend next season and the season after scraping around for bore draws and for enough points to stay up with a Sam hoof it approach. Fucking hell thats not what Newcastle are about You would rather we became a 'yo-yo' club, than stay in the Premiership by any means possible? I don't want to see Newcastle stay in the Premiership by any means possible for example I dont want us to become a Stoke or a Bolton Wanderers. I want us to try and play good football and see what happens and if we get relegated then so be it. Oh, so you're the guy who would rather lose 3-4 than win 1-0? Come on, lets not try and imply that this is some myth about Newcastle Fans, 2 half years ago we heard all the "win at all costs. dont care how we play" when Allardyce was put in charge, same fans were lapping it up when Keegan told us watching Newcaslte is like "southerners watching theatre they're there to be entertained".

You mean that after an unsuccessful push you can actually reign in costs and then rebuild leading to a relatively successful team WITHOUT getting relegated or going into administration? Well I never. I'm sure I read that once you got into a position of having a debt of around £70m and a high wages to turnover ratio it was almost unavoidable that debts would continue to increase and wages would "spiral out of control" ending up inevitably in administration unless you fortunately get a generous benefactor to take you over and "turn round the finances" by getting the club relegated and continuing to run the business at a massive loss year after year. If only Ashley could have taken us over in '99 or 2000, maybe he could have brought in someone like Vinny Jones to buy the players for Robson and saved us from the pain of the following years... No surprise that the inevitable suspects have derailed yet another thread into the same tired old Shepherd bashing. Assuming that your are of the belief that Ashley should of spent spent spent his way out of trouble, do you think that that is the same course of action that West Ham and Pompey should take to avoid the trouble they are in? Or is the fact that we fill our stadium regulary make our situations completely different in all ways possible? Your assumption is wrong, I'm not sure how you arrived at it from a post where I was talking about reigning in costs and rebuilding, but this thread is about INCOME so I wont derail it further by going into spend. I agree, I to dont want to derail the thread but Im just interested to know how you would of reigned in costs yet progressed on the field with the level of debt and wages to turnover ratio that we had? When SBR and Shepherd did it they didnt have the likes of Owen, Duff, Smith, Viduka or Butt to get rid of, I think the situations are alot different to how they are now and therefore a neglible comparison, which I'm assuming is the comparison you were trying to make. Like I say, I was just wondering, not really going to get deep into this, just a query.