fredbob
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Posts posted by fredbob
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Collocini, Bassong, Gutierrez. 3 quality players in 1 transfer window (and a coulpe of half decent ones), all for decent prices too, I've never seen it before at newcastle, not in 1 transfer window.
Do you think we should try to persuade Jiminez to come back too?
I'm even starting to regret hating Mike Ashley as much right now, but I guess it's all knee jerking from me
I would definitely add Guthrie to that list - he was off the boil today a little but ithink he's got a great future ahead of him, such a tidy little player who not afriad to play psitive as well.
Hopefully some fans will recognise this and ease off a little more.
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The mans done really really well for the club but i still wouldnt want him for any longer than the end of the season. Wouldnt mind giving hima role at the club, althoughi doubt he'd take it (and it'd purely be for sentimental reasons). Really think if Ashley wants to stay than he needs to make another ambitious appointment at the end of the season and give the fans more hope of sustained success for the future.
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What a great signing, more vindication for the scouting sytems, superb find by Wise and Vetere, long may it continue.
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Yet again, another solid display, really pleased with the way things are going at the moment, Think Kinnear has realised his strongest side and whilst his sub was a little late it was still a good one so credit to him for looking to take the game whilst others may have sen the dangers that spurs we creating a little too clearly.
Another solid display at the back, Bassong in particular was very good, Gutrie had aquite game today but was still solid, Butt played well today but special mention to Zog, i think for the first time in a long time he's enjoying playing the the club and further more he workedfor the team today, noticed a few times that he drifted"into the hole" whether that was his own doing of Kinnear is one thing but he found himself in good posiitons a few times, pleasing stuff. Maybe not as penetrative as he could of been with his runs but still good. Is obviously enjoying the company of Bassong and that can only be a good thing.
Up front we were ok, Viduka i thought was ok, regained possession quite well but was feeding off relative scraps for most of the game, Owen was quiet today.
This team is well capable of finishing in the top8, thats the first time in the past 4 years ive said that and actually felt thouroughly confident, we're finally becoming a difficult team to beat, not letting our heads drop like we have done in the past.
Credit where credits due
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The more i think about it, the crapper i think the offer actually is - not in terms of salary, but in terms with what it means to Owen. I realise his injury record has been terrible for us, but i put that mainly down to 2 freak accidents, to offer 3 years, with the option of a fourth providing he stays fit to a player of Owen's calibre is oretty insulting if you ask me.
If you think about it, the offer kind of leaves him with toomuch insecurity, not only is it essentially a 3 years contract, but he has to prove his fitness in that final year in order to "win" a fourth year, if he doesnt, he's left at 32 with no contract offer andnot much hope of furthering his career but not old enough to retire assuming he's still the class striker he is now.
I think the money will come second in priority agisnt the length.
Three years isn't short at all imo.
That's just about as long as he can expect to be an effective premiership player
Like Kinnear said, they're "tying him up for the rest of his career"
I think it is to be honest- i think Owen will be looking for 4 with an option of a 5th. He's going to want to be earning as much as possilbe for as long as possilbe, and taking a massive pay cut or retiring at 32 dont strike me as things that Owen would want to do.
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The more i think about it, the crapper i think the offer actually is - not in terms of salary, but in terms with what it means to Owen. I realise his injury record has been terrible for us, but i put that mainly down to 2 freak accidents, to offer 3 years, with the option of a fourth providing he stays fit to a player of Owen's calibre is oretty insulting if you ask me.
If you think about it, the offer kind of leaves him with toomuch insecurity, not only is it essentially a 3 years contract, but he has to prove his fitness in that final year in order to "win" a fourth year, if he doesnt, he's left at 32 with no contract offer andnot much hope of furthering his career but not old enough to retire assuming he's still the class striker he is now.
I think the money will come second in priority agisnt the length.
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Sharks are cunts
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He was obviously asked if he thought Joe was better than Capello and why shouldn't he say yes then?
I also have a feeling that the reason the question was asked in the first place had something to do with the fact Capello isn't making use of Owen, while Owen is obviously performing for Kinnear.
I don't think these quotes are anything to be overly worried or concerned about.
What I found interesting was what he had to say about £30 million players and Newcastle not being a bottomless pit. Wonder if that was a bit of insight (or maybe even a slight dig?) concerning the previous managers targets.
"I'd like to do what we did last time and surprise people," Keegan added. "It would be nice to break a world record. Why rule it out. I'd like to bring players here that amaze people and we stop just talking about being a big club - but, with our actions, we show that we are.
''Sometimes people limit themselves by saying, 'we can't do that'. You say 'why not?' and they don't give you an answer. If we can get this club going in the right direction we have the owner who will find us the money for these players. You start by building up trust with the people who provide the finance that you can find these players at the right price. It's easy to get players to a club once it's flying in the right direction."
Combine those quotes with the ones after the Chelseas defeat and it kind of unravels a little bit more, piece by piece. Maybe keegan did go in thinking the above quotes, handed in his list accordingly and came out the meeting thinking the 'Chelsea quotes' becasue he'd been told that that sort of money wasnt available. Its the only scenario that makes any sense.
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Owen out of Toon fears
By SHAUN CUSTIS and STEVE HAWKES
MIKE ASHLEY has admitted there is nothing he can do to stop Michael Owen quitting Newcastle.
And the Toon owner hinted Owen could join Manchester City.
Ashley said: “We’d love Michael Owen to stay. Newcastle want him to stay but we have to look at what we can spend when other clubs like Man City do not.
“The guy at City is about 1,000 times wealthier than me. I haven’t got his kind of money.
“If Man City want Owen, there’s nothing I can do about it.”
Ashley, who still wants to sell Newcastle, formally offered the striker a new three-year deal worth £80,000 a week.
But Owen has shown no inclination to sign it and is expected to leave on a free when his contract runs out in the summer.
Toon boss Joe Kinnear has publicly stated Owen, 29, will not be sold in next month’s transfer window even though Newcastle could make money from a fee.
Kinnear believes, with Newcastle threatened by relegation, the club would be mad to let their best player leave for a few million and risk £50m by dropping out of the Premier League.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/article2049180.ece
Blatantly inviting offers from the likes of Man City.
But still the sun shines out of this man's arse to some
Have to say (and it pains me to say this
) but i think i agree with HTT here, seems like a bit of PR exercise knowing that Man City are interested in him. -
Is it unhealthy for him to stay and score a load of goals for the club?
I'll bite. The object of the exercise is for the team to win matches, not for one player to score a lot of goals. How valuable Owen's contribution is to the team as a whole has been debated over and over, and I didn't want to get into that again. Personally I think we can thrive without him and the whole pantomime is bad for the club, but I concede I'm in the minority there.
Do you think we'd score more goals if we allowed without Owen in the team?
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Tom, I see where you're coming from about the countdown and christmas poem highlighting 'something serious', but you have to realise that the most important thing in communications/PR is not just getting the message across, but how you get the message across.
You must realise that a billionaire businessman is supremely unlikely to engage in discussion with a group that resorts to such measures.
It seems we've reached the point where nothing more can be said, if Ashley selling is the objective you want, so NUSC should use this opportunity to show themselves as balanced, reasoned and pursuing some other issues.
Speaking with an NUSC hat on, I can say that when we contacted Mike Ashley, when we're asking to speak to him, we don't realistically think that he is going to be in touch with us. However, the offer is there. The ball is in his court so to speak.
Personally, I agree with you on the points you raise. As I said yesterday, we are currently working on things away from the Mike Ashley issue. Again, personally, as much as it was the catalyst, and as much as it is an important issue, I want NUSC to be more much more than that, and I know plenty others in NUSC feel the same.
In setting up NUSC, not everything has gone to plan, and yes, mistakes have probably been made, but I think in setting something like this up, that's going to be inevitable. Sometimes we are going to have to look over things we've done or said and revise our judgements or decisions. The thing is we don't mind criticism from members or potential members. If people are saying "I'm not joining NUSC because or x or y reason", then that allows us to look at the reason(s) and discuss the matter. That's something that IS happening.
The mistakes were completely avoidable though and as I assume that there are some highly intelligent people involved in the group I'm surprised that they were allowed to happen.
Is it honestly the case that not one member stood up and questioned the tone and content of the early 'dialogue'? And if they did speak up were they ignored?
It's a cliche but first impressions do count and the first (and second and third....) impression of NUSC was one of almost a vigilante group with a single myopic agenda to remove the 'Cockney Mafia' from the club without consideration of their impacts on the club.
Now this may sound daft, but if there is a faction within NUSC who want to build a true supporters club then the best thing they could do is to form a splinter group and distance themselves from anyone who has spoken out under the NUSC banner so far
(oh and choose a name which does not imply that their views are representative of all Toon fans - which like it or not Newcastle United Supporters Club does)
Preach, brother, Preach!
Amen to that.
Bit in bold especially.
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Huh? What are they offering to do to help him?
They'll stop coming out with stupid statements, poems, and countdowns. How generous.
I bet they don't.
The theory goes that if you place 1000 monkey's in a room with typewriters, they'll eventually write enough words to form a shakespeare play...looks like the NUSC have some evolution to do.
Have the 1,000 monkeys paid £10 each to be in the room.
Nope, these monkeys are intelligent.
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Huh? What are they offering to do to help him?
They'll stop coming out with stupid statements, poems, and countdowns. How generous.
I bet they don't.
The theory goes that if you place 1000 monkey's in a room with typewriters, they'll eventually write enough words to form a shakespeare play...looks like the NUSC have some evolution to do.
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The club are only offering him this deal to save face as they know fine well he does not want to be here further than the current deal has him tied to the club, so when he does leave they can say to the fans "we tried" and Owen will foot the blame.
This kind of deal should have been offered the moment KK wanted him tied down, a time when Owen was willing to commit to more years.
This is a cynical attempt to look ambitious.
The evil genius.
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We could have had him.
Then sold him on for this rediculous amount. It certainly fits into the new approach by the club.
Eh?
Titus Bramble Released ... £4.5m loss
Craig Moore Released ... £0
Oguchi Onyewu Released ... £0
Olivier Bernard Released ... £0
Pavel Srnicek Released ... £0
Antoine Sibierski Released ... £200k loss
Scott Parker £7,000,000 ... £1m profit
Alan O’Brien Released ... £0
Kieron Dyer £7,000,000 £1m profit
Paul Huntington £250,000 ... £250k profit
Albert Luque Undisclosed Fee ... ?
Nolberto Solano Free ... £1.5m loss
Stephen Carr Released ... £2m loss
Peter Ramage Released ... £0
James Troisi Released ... £0
Lamine Diatta Released ... £0
David Rozehnal £2.9m ... £0
Belozoglu Emre £3.5m ... £0
Abdoulaye Faye £2.25m ... £0
James Milner £12m ... £7m profit
So of all the player that have left the club we've made summat like £2m-ish.
Sign them up with re-sale value, then sell them on for a profit. Much like what Spurs have done. That's what I feel the club are trying to do.
I can only think of 4, maybe 5 clubs in the entire world whose players dont have a price. Having said that i think you might be right about the Spurs thing, the only thing is that i dont think we'd be a club looking to sell but would sell for the right deal.
Which players did Spurs sell willingly? Robbie Keane for £20m to Liverpool? That was daylight robbery, I'll bet most Liverpool fans would rather have the money back. Berbatov refused to stay, he wasn't sold through choice or to make a profit. I don't see anything devious or miserly in those deals which is what you are implying, in fact Spurs have spent big on top players like Bentley and Modric which is hardly penny-pinching behaviour.
Im not implying anything. Although i do think that Spurs model is to buy players who can develop to make a profit - which they can reinvest, sort of self sufficient method of getting good players. Reinvestemtn program.
What do you think Spurs thinking was when they sold both their main strikers[/b - a guarantueed 50-60 goals a season? Surely you dont think they thought it would be an easy propostition to replace them [i]both[/i] in one window?
I think Spurs were thinking that both Keane and Berbatov wanted to go, and that they would receive 50 million pounds in return. To me they wanted to replace both, but they f***** around too long with the Berbatov transfer leaving them a few hours to et a striker.
So which part of that is ambitious exactly? Berbatov was a definite goner but there didnt seem to be any effort to keep there other 'star' striker. imagine if Nufc did the exact same thing this january Window.
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Don't think Big Sam will be selling him to us now
If he rates him, then to be honest, we're probably better off without.
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We could have had him.
Then sold him on for this rediculous amount. It certainly fits into the new approach by the club.
Eh?
Titus Bramble Released ... £4.5m loss
Craig Moore Released ... £0
Oguchi Onyewu Released ... £0
Olivier Bernard Released ... £0
Pavel Srnicek Released ... £0
Antoine Sibierski Released ... £200k loss
Scott Parker £7,000,000 ... £1m profit
Alan O’Brien Released ... £0
Kieron Dyer £7,000,000 £1m profit
Paul Huntington £250,000 ... £250k profit
Albert Luque Undisclosed Fee ... ?
Nolberto Solano Free ... £1.5m loss
Stephen Carr Released ... £2m loss
Peter Ramage Released ... £0
James Troisi Released ... £0
Lamine Diatta Released ... £0
David Rozehnal £2.9m ... £0
Belozoglu Emre £3.5m ... £0
Abdoulaye Faye £2.25m ... £0
James Milner £12m ... £7m profit
So of all the player that have left the club we've made summat like £2m-ish.
Sign them up with re-sale value, then sell them on for a profit. Much like what Spurs have done. That's what I feel the club are trying to do.
I can only think of 4, maybe 5 clubs in the entire world whose players dont have a price. Having said that i think you might be right about the Spurs thing, the only thing is that i dont think we'd be a club looking to sell but would sell for the right deal.
Which players did Spurs sell willingly? Robbie Keane for £20m to Liverpool? That was daylight robbery, I'll bet most Liverpool fans would rather have the money back. Berbatov refused to stay, he wasn't sold through choice or to make a profit. I don't see anything devious or miserly in those deals which is what you are implying, in fact Spurs have spent big on top players like Bentley and Modric which is hardly penny-pinching behaviour.
Im not implying anything. Although i do think that Spurs model is to buy players who can develop to make a profit - which they can reinvest, sort of self sufficient method of getting good players. Reinvestemtn program.
What do you think Spurs thinking was when they sold both their main strikers - a guarantueed 50-60 goals a season? Surely you dont think they thought it would be an easy propostition to replace them both in one window?
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We could have had him.
Then sold him on for this rediculous amount. It certainly fits into the new approach by the club.
Eh?
Titus Bramble Released ... £4.5m loss
Craig Moore Released ... £0
Oguchi Onyewu Released ... £0
Olivier Bernard Released ... £0
Pavel Srnicek Released ... £0
Antoine Sibierski Released ... £200k loss
Scott Parker £7,000,000 ... £1m profit
Alan O’Brien Released ... £0
Kieron Dyer £7,000,000 £1m profit
Paul Huntington £250,000 ... £250k profit
Albert Luque Undisclosed Fee ... ?
Nolberto Solano Free ... £1.5m loss
Stephen Carr Released ... £2m loss
Peter Ramage Released ... £0
James Troisi Released ... £0
Lamine Diatta Released ... £0
David Rozehnal £2.9m ... £0
Belozoglu Emre £3.5m ... £0
Abdoulaye Faye £2.25m ... £0
James Milner £12m ... £7m profit
So of all the player that have left the club we've made summat like £2m-ish.
Sign them up with re-sale value, then sell them on for a profit. Much like what Spurs have done. That's what I feel the club are trying to do.
I can only think of 4, maybe 5 clubs in the entire world whose players dont have a price. Having said that i think you might be right about the Spurs thing, the only thing is that i dont think we'd be a club looking to sell but would sell for the right deal.
I've got nothing against going for young players whose value can go up of course, but the ambition is to keep them and not sell them on.
Agreed. Unless a player wants to go id be wary of selling them, unless of course the deal IS ridiculous.
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There is a flipside to all this, of course its a generous offer in our eyes but can anyone think of a time where a player has signed a reduced-pay contract extension?
In a game where people get salary increases for turning down advances from rival clubs and salary increases for international call ups i dont think this offer will sit well with Owen, i can see this being rejected to be honest.
Then again, how many players have been given a £100+k contract at 25, and then still offered £90k aged 29?
Will Owen see it that way though? Do you think he'll consider himself lucky to get that offer in what he (and others) will consider the peak of his career?
To be fair to Owen he's a world class striker and not a player you can honestly ategorically doesnt warrant a £100k wage in the first place, it'd be a massive thing for him to be takng a pay cut whilst players like Lampard and Terry are getting a pay rise AND longer contracts offers at older ages. How do you think that will bode for him?
People get salary increases because other clubs will pay them that amount, Owen started on a wage far more then anyone else were willing to or even could pay. He's a world class striker IMO that would be worth £100,000 a week if he wasn't injury prone he's not stupid so he'll realise that has to be taken into account. Remember, we're not just talking anout £90,000 a week, more then anyone else will pay IMO, we're talking about a 4 year contract which means he'll still be on £90,000 when he's 33. For a player with such major injury problems that's an incredible deal. If he doesn't see it that way then I hope we don't offer him a penny more.
I think theres a of a prestige issue here more than a monetary one. Lampard is a prime example of that. The injury record is a moot point ot be honest Mark Viduka being a prime example of that as well.
Its not a moot point at all, had Viduka not been such a cripple we'd have had a much harder time signing him given his quality at the time. Both prestige and money come into it, but Owen's not going to accept a much lower wage from the likes of Everton, Spuds, Villa or Wigan for prestige reasons
The top 4 won't want him either. Man City might be his only option, simply because they could offer him the same deal or better. Will they?, probably not IMO.I never said he would, all im saying it that there'd be an element of "shame" for the 'great' Michael Owen to have to take a pay cut from the likes of 'measley' Nufc, whilst his international colleagues are doing the exact opposite. How will his pride take that?
Having a shocking injury record is a moot point how may injury prone players do you see get a pay cut becasue of their fitness record?
I came name plenty of footballers with worse injury records who havent had there pay affected, id also like to point out that Owen was injury prone before he was signed by Madrid, and the reason he hasnt played much for us is basically becasue of a freak accident or 2, not injurys in the conventional sense.
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We could have had him.
Then sold him on for this rediculous amount. It certainly fits into the new approach by the club.
Eh?
Titus Bramble Released ... £4.5m loss
Craig Moore Released ... £0
Oguchi Onyewu Released ... £0
Olivier Bernard Released ... £0
Pavel Srnicek Released ... £0
Antoine Sibierski Released ... £200k loss
Scott Parker £7,000,000 ... £1m profit
Alan O’Brien Released ... £0
Kieron Dyer £7,000,000 £1m profit
Paul Huntington £250,000 ... £250k profit
Albert Luque Undisclosed Fee ... ?
Nolberto Solano Free ... £1.5m loss
Stephen Carr Released ... £2m loss
Peter Ramage Released ... £0
James Troisi Released ... £0
Lamine Diatta Released ... £0
David Rozehnal £2.9m ... £0
Belozoglu Emre £3.5m ... £0
Abdoulaye Faye £2.25m ... £0
James Milner £12m ... £7m profit
So of all the player that have left the club we've made summat like £2m-ish.
Sign them up with re-sale value, then sell them on for a profit. Much like what Spurs have done. That's what I feel the club are trying to do.
I can only think of 4, maybe 5 clubs in the entire world whose players dont have a price. Having said that i think you might be right about the Spurs thing, the only thing is that i dont think we'd be a club looking to sell but would sell for the right deal.
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We could have had him.
If we kept Sam Allardyce yes.
And stumped up the reported 90k he was demanding....
Wasn't he only demanding that simply because we had no manager?
Is that right? Cant say i remember it too well to be honest.
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We could have had him.
Then sold him on for this rediculous amount. It certainly fits into the new approach by the club.
:lol: -
We could have had him.
If we kept Sam Allardyce yes.
And stumped up the reported 90k he was demanding....
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Blackburn are quite a physical side. Think he could work well with them.
Kinnear Out
in Football
Posted
Personally i dont think Kinnear has the most skill as a manager to build a future for the club, we've seen before with Roeder that achieving good league positions still isnt a great indicator of how good a manager will be for us.
EDIT: Why am i talking about this? Just beat Spurs, well done Joe. Credit where credits due.