fredbob

We very nearly got Modric, Woodgate & Aimar under Keegan, so I don't think transfer funds was the problem.

 

We didnt get them therefore it didnt happen.

 

That's just about it, aye. If we had so much money readily available and had our sights on top players like that, why did we end up not buying anyone instead of them? Woodgate/Coloccini excepted.

 

I gave Ashley the benefit of the doubt all summer on the back of those bids but f*** all happened.

 

Becasue the manager and board werent rowing in the same direction?

 

Are you actually arguing Ashleys intention of spending off the back of a few players turning us down?

 

Intentions mean f*** all when the actions don't back them up.

 

What? What more action could the club of taken with Modric and Woodgate in particular?

 

These intentions alone give me the evidence i need to have some faith in Ashley. If Keegan was still here and we signed who we signed, id be pissed.

 

You know exactly what happened with Modric and how hard we tried to get him? I thought that was your thing, not having an opinion until you know all the facts. You may be happy to believe that we tried as hard as we could to get Modric, yet he went to Spurs for a lower transfer fee and lower wages, but it doesn't quite ring true to me.

 

 

A bid was made and accepted for both players, wouldnt that constitue 'action?' Mort said we offered more, who knows, all i know is that they acted. Who knows the intracies of the Spurs deal? If i remember correctly, Modric said something along the lines of not knowing where he was going.

 

Our scouting system also goes beyond the major teams of the major leagues in recent years, as well as a focusing on players who will reach their peakrather than ones who are about to go over it.

 

 

Can you show me evidence that Jiminez looked beyond Spain apart from one player?

 

What about Martins, Jenas, Viana and Milner?

 

 

Cacapa, Rozenhal, Smith, Guthrie, Faye, Beye, Basong, Kadar, Baheng, Tozer?

Not to mention all the other players we were linked with.

Also the players you mentioned bar Martins come from an era that isnt in contention.

 

If you don't keep a handle on the finances then there won't be a club 

 

We paid through the nose for players over the last few season - didn't get the return that was expected. Spunking away cash on more players who may or may not do the job would be a huge gamble. It makes far more sense to play it smart.

 

He wants to make money... not sure how you can say he doesn't have ambition. The real money is in european qualification. Money from the competitions, TV, and increased merchandise sales worldwide are surely attractive to a man who only cares about money, eh?

 

The difference now with our transfer policy is that we seem to be able to bring in more from sales than we have in the past.  Getting in the region of £7 million for Dyer and £12 million for Milner isn't the way we've worked in the past, we've bought high and sold low.

 

I'm convinced that if we'd sold those two for what they were worth rather than what we received then people would be happier.  That’s a comment in general and not aimed at anybody in particular.

 

Our scouting system also goes beyond the major teams of the major leagues in recent years, as well as a focusing on players who will reach their peakrather than ones who are about to go over it.

We very nearly got Modric, Woodgate & Aimar under Keegan, so I don't think transfer funds was the problem.

 

We didnt get them therefore it didnt happen.

 

That's just about it, aye. If we had so much money readily available and had our sights on top players like that, why did we end up not buying anyone instead of them? Woodgate/Coloccini excepted.

 

I gave Ashley the benefit of the doubt all summer on the back of those bids but f*** all happened.

 

Becasue the manager and board werent rowing in the same direction?

 

Are you actually arguing Ashleys intention of spending off the back of a few players turning us down?

 

Intentions mean f*** all when the actions don't back them up.

What? What more action could the club of taken with Modric and Woodgate in particular?

These intentions alone give me the evidence i need to have some faith in Ashley. If Keegan was still here and we signed who we signed, id be pissed.

that reminds me - wasnt Keegan intimating that he'd be happy with 3-4 players? We did end up with 6.

 

It went up and down in every press conference.

 

 

Fair point!

that reminds me - wasnt Keegan intimating that he'd be happy with 3-4 players? We did end up with 6.

We very nearly got Modric, Woodgate & Aimar under Keegan, so I don't think transfer funds was the problem.

 

We didnt get them therefore it didnt happen.

 

That's just about it, aye. If we had so much money readily available and had our sights on top players like that, why did we end up not buying anyone instead of them? Woodgate/Coloccini excepted.

 

I gave Ashley the benefit of the doubt all summer on the back of those bids but f*** all happened.

Becasue the manager and board werent rowing in the same direction?

Are you actually arguing Ashleys intention of spending off the back of a few players turning us down?

We very nearly got Modric, Woodgate & Aimar under Keegan, so I don't think transfer funds was the problem.

We didnt get them therefore it didnt happen.

What is there to see?

 

Of course he can change his mind. The point is considering the severity of the two situations I find it much more unlikely than Keegan getting a job when he didn't see himself being offered one. In my opinion Ashley has burnt his bridges. Keegan did nothing of the sort.

 

Are you winding me up?

 

Sorry i dont see the difference between someone ruling out a job and changing there mind about selling the club. I dont see the contentious issue that you do.

 

 

WUM.

Haha, seriously i dont. Specifically speaking Ashley only has a responsibltty to himself, he, by right can do whatever the f*** he wants to do with his personal asset. I see you've given an example about Alastair Darling and im afriad thats where your "logic" falls down. Darling has a repsonsiblity (by law and consititution) to the public and a public servant, Ashley doesnt so his decision to sell the club or not bears no relevance to the fans whatsoever - specifically speaking.

The point in hand is that fact that everyone changes there mind - seemed pretty clear from Onuts post.

Good try though Dave.

What is there to see?

 

Of course he can change his mind. The point is considering the severity of the two situations I find it much more unlikely than Keegan getting a job when he didn't see himself being offered one. In my opinion Ashley has burnt his bridges. Keegan did nothing of the sort.

 

Are you winding me up?

Sorry i dont see the difference between someone ruling out a job and changing there mind about selling the club. I dont see the contentious issue that you do.

Bit of a difference between someone saying they're not expecting a job offer and someone burning their bridges like Ashley has.

 

Why?

 

'I don't think it will happen.'

'I am no longer prepared to subsidise Newcastle United.'

 

You think those sentiments are comparable?

 

Wasnt ONut point that people change there mind?

 

And my point was that when you're discussing issues of such differing importance there's no comparison whatsoever.

Nope, still dont see it, so Ashley cant change his mind?

Bit of a difference between someone saying they're not expecting a job offer and someone burning their bridges like Ashley has.

 

Why?

 

'I don't think it will happen.'

'I am no longer prepared to subsidise Newcastle United.'

 

You think those sentiments are comparable?

Wasnt ONut point that people change there mind?

Bit of a difference between someone saying they're not expecting a job offer and someone burning their bridges like Ashley has.

Why?

Maybe he's not desperate to sell like people are assuming.

 

That's fine, but then he should get on with running the club properly and make quality signings in January that will match his ambitions of bringing CL football to Newcastle. That was his aim at the start of the season after all.

Ok.

Maybe he's not desperate to sell like people are assuming.

Like I said in the NUSC thread, I would like to know what price Ashley is willing to sell at. Obviously no one is prepared to pay £280-300million suggested by Keith Harris, but seeing that Ashley himself has only paid around £240m there was surely some leeway for lowering the price to encourage a sale?

 

Is he desperate to sell or not? If he intends to keep the club he has to invest in it properly otherwise he risks doing irreperable damage and there will be hell on if he's seen to be milking the club while it limps along on the cheap. I think we need some clarification as to Ashley's intentions.

 

i dont believe the £244m figure for a second, ashley has came out with contrary statements about the debt since he arrived, saying its gone and then saying it remains, and has manipulated figures to make himself look better. i would not be suprised if ashley is using things like transfer fees or even player wages and amortisation or liabilities as a 'debt' he, ie the club, has paid off.

 

our debt was something like £52m before Ashley came in, all but around £5m of that being stadium debt which ashley had to pay anyway and can be considered part of the purchase cost. other than that there was a £17m overdraft. since harris says that debt remains, let's be charitable to ashley and presume it is the non-stadium debt and that ashley paid off the rest, meaning an outlay of around £200m on his part to buy the club and clear most the debts. so how does he get £244m? well, funnily enough our cumulative transfer fees since Ashley came in are £44m! meaning we get the magic £244m figure. how coincidental...

 

:lol:

 

The evil genius.

 

just a hypothesis.

 

i suppose you believed him when he said the club didnt owe a penny to anyone or when mort said the club was close to collapse, too.

I actually thought that he was referring to 3rd parties external to football when he talked about debt repayment. Im sure Mort harped on about interest etc when he was talking about Ashleys "investment".

I also believed alot of what Keegan said.

I give up, this is all drivel.

Like I said in the NUSC thread, I would like to know what price Ashley is willing to sell at. Obviously no one is prepared to pay £280-300million suggested by Keith Harris, but seeing that Ashley himself has only paid around £240m there was surely some leeway for lowering the price to encourage a sale?

 

Is he desperate to sell or not? If he intends to keep the club he has to invest in it properly otherwise he risks doing irreperable damage and there will be hell on if he's seen to be milking the club while it limps along on the cheap. I think we need some clarification as to Ashley's intentions.

 

i dont believe the £244m figure for a second, ashley has came out with contrary statements about the debt since he arrived, saying its gone and then saying it remains, and has manipulated figures to make himself look better. i would not be suprised if ashley is using things like transfer fees or even player wages and amortisation or liabilities as a 'debt' he, ie the club, has paid off.

 

our debt was something like £52m before Ashley came in, all but around £5m of that being stadium debt which ashley had to pay anyway and can be considered part of the purchase cost. other than that there was a £17m overdraft. since harris says that debt remains, let's be charitable to ashley and presume it is the non-stadium debt and that ashley paid off the rest, meaning an outlay of around £200m on his part to buy the club and clear most the debts. so how does he get £244m? well, funnily enough our cumulative transfer fees since Ashley came in are £44m! meaning we get the magic £244m figure. how coincidental...

:lol:

The evil genius.

Ashley should man up and take a financial loss like everyone else atm.

 

 

I realise we both have our opposing views regarding the situation but i'm sorry that is just plain ridiculous.

 

alternatively he could admit that the long dramatic whine about selling up was bollocks and he had no intention of letting go at a price the market dictated.

 

if he truly wanted out for the sake of his family, and was just a 'fan' all along, i'm sure he wouldn't mind taking a small hit or only getting his money back. but it was bullshit, the man can't be trusted. he's as hard nosed as they come - as your response implies - and won't sell until he feels can make a bit of cash, his intention all along.

 

btw this is presuming we arent selling up this season. if he sells up before the window i'll at least give him credit for that, but i cant see it happening with the kinnear announcements.

Or he could admit that the market isnt right and that the baggage surrounding the club is making it a difficult asset to sell, that his selling price is perfectly reasonable and with this being the case is willing to carry on with his original plans and back his manager, starting from this January.

Anyone can play this game.

Seems to be the usual rubbish though.

People are losing their mindsover this, i genuinely cant believe how much s*** is being spewed about this issue.

(No doubt all ill get as a reply is a sarcastic comment about how we'll be lucky if he backs his manager, completely missing the point)

Ashley should man up and take a financial loss like everyone else atm.

I realise we both have our opposing views regarding the situation but i'm sorry that is just plain ridiculous.

Yet again people are assuming the price is sky-high. Maybe the offers were ridiculously low...

 

We don't know. 

Do you think £250 was fair?

 

I'd give him £250 for it like.

Hilarious.

 

Do you think the £250m asking price was fair.

Where have you plucked that figure from?

Yet again people are assuming the price is sky-high. Maybe the offers were ridiculously low...

 

We don't know.

 

who's fault is that?

 

Ashley : " Role up, role up, we've got a lovely north east club here, yours for just £299m, warra bargain, only on offer, come and get your frills, tears and joys for the bargain price of under £300m, once in a lifetime oppurtunty ladies and gents"

 

Ashley has been quick enough to tell us how much he's put into the club. He doesn't need to give an exact figure at which he would be happy to sell, if he would just come out and say he isn't prepared to sell the club at a loss I would understand.

He did, something like this not being a firesale, could be wrong.

Yet again people are assuming the price is sky-high. Maybe the offers were ridiculously low...

 

We don't know. 

 

who's fault is that?

Ashley : " Role up, role up, we've got a lovely north east club here, yours for just £299m, warra bargain, only on offer, come and get your frills, tears and joys for the bargain price of under £300m, once in a lifetime oppurtunty ladies and gents"

How soon we forget about boycotting, how small minded are we that we cant see that our actions HAVE lead us to the situation we're in now? Do you know if the NUSC has put off any potential buyers?

 

The only thinging stopping the sale isn't the fans - its the price combined with the economic climate.

 

The very idea that a potential investor even knows NUSC exists is laughable.

 

 

 

 

 

You dont think a club thats being boycotted where the fans no nothing may put off potential investors? Especially when the owner may feel he's done little wrong?

 

Yeh you're right the idea is laughable, Im sure the potential buyers are completely unaware of any boycott at the club. Best keep that quiet.

 

Again, would investors go through due diligence and make offers if they had concerns about the fans?

 

 

Fair point, although we did have 7/8 interested parties from the start....im playng devils advocate here. It wasnt even my major point.

The only clubs i see being in for Owen are Villa, Man City and Spurs. Will he lower his earnings with Spurs and Villa and will he be Hughes first choice striker at Man City.

I see circumstances that OWen will stay.