fredbob

So it wasn't great to watch? It wasnt aesthetically brilliant, no. Not a thing of beauty? Nope not in my opinion. "brilliant" being the operative word here, mind. i wouldnt describe Nayims goal as a thing of beauty, nor Pedro Mendez strike against Man U as a thing of beauty, i wouldnt even describe Ronaldihno gaols against england as a thing of beauty, I'd put bentleys goal in with those. Lampards goal agaisnt Hull was much better. Do you play football regularly? Not a trick question, just interested to know, as I'd argue - from my experience of playing the game - that what Bentley did was more difficult than what Lampard did. The ball was rolling towards Lampard (always easier to make a good connection that way) and was begging for him to attempt what he did. I also thought the keeper might have had a better stab at getting to it. Fair play to Lampard though, it was still a great goal. I do actually yes, thats why i said "technically brilliant, aesthetically not brilliant" But in my opinion Lampards was better, easy on the eye, delicate and precise with his wrong foot. Bentley had an element of hit and hope about it and it swerved like fuck in the air. Not the best looking goal.

aye, Lampard's goal last night was better, fantastic finish Left peg as well. best player so far this season for me like Aye, he'd done well, Boswinga's been quality as well. 2 standout players for me this season so far. Geovanni In fact Robihnos been brilliant as well. Lampard pips it for me though.

What happens if Ashley becomes the only available option bar none? Then what?

aye, Lampard's goal last night was better, fantastic finish Left peg as well. best player so far this season for me like Aye, he'd done well, Boswinga's been quality as well. 2 standout players for me this season so far.

aye, Lampard's goal last night was better, fantastic finish Left peg as well.

So it wasn't great to watch? It wasnt aesthetically brilliant, no. Not a thing of beauty? Nope not in my opinion. "brilliant" being the operative word here, mind. i wouldnt describe Nayims goal as a thing of beauty, nor Pedro Mendez strike against Man U as a thing of beauty, i wouldnt even describe Ronaldihno gaols against england as a thing of beauty, I'd put bentleys goal in with those. Lampards goal agaisnt Hull was much better.

So it wasn't great to watch? It wasnt aesthetically brilliant, no.

Technically brilliant, aesthetically not.

Allardyce's record: W: 7 ... D: 5 ... L: 10 And it was more to do with the way we lost those matches/didn't win the ones that we drew. I was for Big Sam at the time but it was pretty clear he had it all wrong, really. I could og into the merits of Allardyce but thats not my point, its how we as fans refuse to accpet our actions even when they contradict themselves. Its how these contradictions have affected our club and its how this divine right to success has put us in the hole we're in now by forcing the hand of Shepherd with the sacking of SBR. No one wants to admit it, but theres always uproar when anyone writes negatively about us becasue they dont understadn the Geordies, well i say the Geordies dont even understand themselves.

I'd agree with the OP after 50 years of waiting, when a modicum of success comes we as nufc fans feel we have a divine right to maintain it.... Nufc fans refuse to take any accountabilty for there actions. I can think of 3 times where they have acted without any real solid reason and have directly forced the direction of the club. SBR, Allardyce and KK/Ashley farce. Each time the best reason i hear is "this would of happened, he would of done this....etc" suddnely we have 52k fans with 20/20 foresight. Id also go as far as saying that some of the stereotypes attached to nufc fans are true, an example of this would be the "nufc fans would rather lose 4-3 than win 1-0", of the course the statement is actually rubbish but the sentiment is definitely true. We played the victims card - "no one understands us, after all these years of starved success all we want to do is win" "we dont care how we win etc". Well when the one man who tries to implement this winning is everything mentality into the team (sacrificng style), he gets lambasted for poor tactics, shitty football, doesnt know what he's doing etc etc. Gets the sack after 20 odd games, even though we were in 11th place. Then when Keegan tells us that "football for us is like southerners going to the theatre all we want is to be entertained" all of a sudden it strikes a chord with the geordie faithfu, "he understand our way of life and the area, he understands us" Now is it me or is that a massive contradiction?? No one has the brass to admit it, i know this'll get mocked and i imagine that this will stick with me for a long while but its just another example of when NUFC fans refuse to accpet accountability and chose to ignore the consequences of there actions and for me its tested my patience becasue the majority of the times ive been in the minority when these things have occured. NB: Im not debating the merits of keeping Allardyce but the clear contradiction that occured. Id be interested to hear peoples views on this contradiction. Rant over.

Im not exactly sure thats a defnite improvement. Seems like for like to me at best.

So with £13m who people buy to replace Martins who would be a definite improvement (on paper at least)? The best i can come up with is Roque Santa Cruz, Daniel Sturrige looks decent,Zaki, maybe John Carew... P

I would have respected Sir Bobby a lot more if he'd told Fat Fred to f*** off and that he wouldn't accept players bought and sold behind his back. Look where his 'love of the club' got him. Humiliatingly sacked. 2 things with this - at the end of the day he did right by the club and we know what a bad decision it was to sack him so his stubborness was justified. The other more interesting point is how Shepherds role has been renedered less significant....its exactly the same thing that has happened here, maybe even worse but the outcry is 20 times worse and i cant fathom why. The timing of the sacking was wrong, yes. But he should have went during the summer of 2004. Totally agreed. At a time we knew Robson was on his way the next year anyway, and at a time where we were on a par with Liverpool, still not a million miles behind Chelsea, but way ahead of Spurs, Liverpool sacked Houllier and got Benitez, Chelsea sacked Ranieri and got Mourinho, while Spurs appointed Santini, but more importantly, got Martin Jol in too. We clung on to Robson when we should have been doing the same thing, sacked him at a stupid time, and then got Souness. That is all completely hindsight, the sacking was at least one season too early. Robson himself said that summer he was leaving the next year. Did you not see what happened under Ferguson when he did the same? And like I mentioned, all our main rivals at that time were getting new managers who were going to be there on long-term contracts, we should have been doing the same. i didnt realise that, however that STILL isnt good enough reason to sack a manager. You need a good solid reason to sack a manager and i still havent heard one yet. the best i can think of was that there were definitely disciplinary problems - SBr denies them, maybe that was one fatal flaw but it would be touch and go as to whether id sack him for it, espeically when he has such a superb record thourhgout Europe.

I would have respected Sir Bobby a lot more if he'd told Fat Fred to f*** off and that he wouldn't accept players bought and sold behind his back. Look where his 'love of the club' got him. Humiliatingly sacked. 2 things with this - at the end of the day he did right by the club and we know what a bad decision it was to sack him so his stubborness was justified. The other more interesting point is how Shepherds role has been renedered less significant....its exactly the same thing that has happened here, maybe even worse but the outcry is 20 times worse and i cant fathom why. The timing of the sacking was wrong, yes. But he should have went during the summer of 2004. He of all people dserved one more season, the evidence that the team was in decline was there, no doubt but no way near enough to build a case for his sacking. At the end of the day he finished 5th and had a semi final finish in the UEFA Cup, we'd of been favourites for the cup the next season and we'd also of been a fair bet for a top4 finish. Why did he deserve one more season though? He was retiring at the end of that season anyway. We should have replaced him (sacking is a harsh word) then, let a manager come in to a decent squad, and work towards something long-term. Becasue of what he had acheived for us, Houllier got time even though they witnessed simlair situation to us. i didnt realise he was retiring, if thats the case than thats even more damning, we couldnt wait one season for the good of the club? Allowed him to structure the future of the club....use his experince. in our next appoitnment etc.

I would have respected Sir Bobby a lot more if he'd told Fat Fred to f*** off and that he wouldn't accept players bought and sold behind his back. Look where his 'love of the club' got him. Humiliatingly sacked. 2 things with this - at the end of the day he did right by the club and we know what a bad decision it was to sack him so his stubborness was justified. The other more interesting point is how Shepherds role has been renedered less significant....its exactly the same thing that has happened here, maybe even worse but the outcry is 20 times worse and i cant fathom why. The timing of the sacking was wrong, yes. But he should have went during the summer of 2004. He of all people dserved one more season, the evidence that the team was in decline was there, no doubt but no way near enough to build a case for his sacking. At the end of the day he finished 5th and had a semi final finish in the UEFA Cup, we'd of been favourites for the cup the next season and we'd also of been a fair bet for a top4 finish. I don't think we'd have finished top four that season mind, I know hindsight is all well and good, but that last full season under SBR, despite everything he done for us, some of it was absolutely woeful. And that's not me being ungrateful due to everything that's happened since. But some of the football, especially away from home was truly woeful. Well thats something i couldnt predict, it certainly is something id want to base my decsion to sack SBR on anyway. Yep, your right about the crap we saw, but we STILL finished 5th adn a semi, Id hazard a guess and say that most of the top managers out there have had a smelly season, Fergie, Wenger, Houllier etc....would be far too premature to sack them off that basis though. Its also worth mentioning that he didnt get a decent oppurtunity to strengthen his squad for 2 summers and also did lose many games but drew too many.

I'd say in terms of productivity they offer pretty much the same. If i was a defender though, id be a bit more scared of Martins than i would of Cisse. I'd say Cisse brings a more aggressive and in your face style than Martins does. Would agree with that, however Martins always try to take his man and that scares the shit out of defenders especially with his pace.

I would have respected Sir Bobby a lot more if he'd told Fat Fred to f*** off and that he wouldn't accept players bought and sold behind his back. Look where his 'love of the club' got him. Humiliatingly sacked. 2 things with this - at the end of the day he did right by the club and we know what a bad decision it was to sack him so his stubborness was justified. The other more interesting point is how Shepherds role has been renedered less significant....its exactly the same thing that has happened here, maybe even worse but the outcry is 20 times worse and i cant fathom why. The timing of the sacking was wrong, yes. But he should have went during the summer of 2004. Totally agreed. At a time we knew Robson was on his way the next year anyway, and at a time where we were on a par with Liverpool, still not a million miles behind Chelsea, but way ahead of Spurs, Liverpool sacked Houllier and got Benitez, Chelsea sacked Ranieri and got Mourinho, while Spurs appointed Santini, but more importantly, got Martin Jol in too. We clung on to Robson when we should have been doing the same thing, sacked him at a stupid time, and then got Souness. That is all completely hindsight, the sacking was at least one season too early.

I'd say in terms of productivity they offer pretty much the same. If i was a defender though, id be a bit more scared of Martins than i would of Cisse.

I would have respected Sir Bobby a lot more if he'd told Fat Fred to f*** off and that he wouldn't accept players bought and sold behind his back. Look where his 'love of the club' got him. Humiliatingly sacked. 2 things with this - at the end of the day he did right by the club and we know what a bad decision it was to sack him so his stubborness was justified. The other more interesting point is how Shepherds role has been renedered less significant....its exactly the same thing that has happened here, maybe even worse but the outcry is 20 times worse and i cant fathom why. The timing of the sacking was wrong, yes. But he should have went during the summer of 2004. He of all people dserved one more season, the evidence that the team was in decline was there, no doubt but no way near enough to build a case for his sacking. At the end of the day he finished 5th and had a semi final finish in the UEFA Cup, we'd of been favourites for the cup the next season and we'd also of been a fair bet for a top4 finish.

I would have respected Sir Bobby a lot more if he'd told Fat Fred to f*** off and that he wouldn't accept players bought and sold behind his back. Look where his 'love of the club' got him. Humiliatingly sacked. 2 things with this - at the end of the day he did right by the club and we know what a bad decision it was to sack him so his stubborness was justified. The other more interesting point is how Shepherds role has been renedered less significant....its exactly the same thing that has happened here, maybe even worse but the outcry is 20 times worse and i cant fathom why.

What stats are you using, lad? I'm not slagging off Martins (who may have been a bit off-pace, esp in 2nd half, but I usually like to give players a couple matches back before I complain too much about that sort of thing). Owen's record for NUFC is 1 in 2. Martins' is about 1 in 3 -- which is still quite good, imo. Owen has scored 23 goals in something like 45 matches for NUFC. The problem with that stat being the 45 matches in three seasons...but that's still a better than Oba's 22 (I think) in approx. 70. Definitely a better ratio for Owen. That said, it's rather unfair to say Oba's not quality because he's not Michael Owen. Not many players are. Owen's quality is unquestionable (how many strikers score 1 in 2 in the Premiership over 10 seasons?). It's unfair to Oba to constantly compare him to Owen. Try looking at Oba on his own merits, not someone else's. A 1 in 3 striker is quite valuable, especially one who can be well-utilized to get the best out of a 1 in 2 striker (see the 4-3-3 from last season). Is a 1 in 3 striker worth £10m though? In my eyes undoubtedly, does anyone knowhow many assists he has and does anyone know how many importants roles he's played in other peoples goals? Obviouly not but i think he's easily worth about 25-30 goals a season, assuming we're flying as a team. Something we've not seen consitenlty in a season since 2003/4....

keegan likewise. This topic's about Mike Ashley btw. By all means continue with your digs at Keegan though if you want. ashley is in the s*** partly because keegan is untrustworthy. very relevant, especially when some people want keegan back. I trust Kevin Keegan a darn sight more than I ever will Mike Ashley. keegan took us to second in the league. ashley took us to second bottom of the league. where do people prefer to be.? how does that make any sense? try reading it again, some people were trying to turn this thread into ashley/ keegan thread, again,... i simply point out where each of these blokes has been able to get us to, so take your pick, 2nd...2nd bottom. 13 years ago though. pointless comparison in so many ways. At the end of the day it's who you feel would do right by the club. I feel that is obviously Keegan due to his history with us, whereas Ashley to me has proven the exact opposite. Others feel different which is their opinion at the end of the day. But how has he done right by the club by walking out at possilby the worst time? Theres nothing thats happened to him that hasnt happened to SBr but he didnt walk out - now thats the true measure of love for a club, he worked round it. here we go again,.... if it took keegan walking to force the issue with Ashley, then this is the best thing for the club,....bring it to a head, the alternative in my eyes, would have been a slow long drawn out slide with little or no investment. or on the other hand,..ashley was only ever in it for a quick profit, and keegan has again helped moved things along. Good on ya Kev, good thing your not one to just sit around and pick up your wages,. good on you , that your a man of principle. Tad over the top, but each to their own i suppose.

Apart from scoring a few goals. Few being the key word. We can't rely on him up front at the best of times never mind now. Honestly some of his play was embarrassing last night, I wouldn't mind but he's like that 2 games in 3, like I said he does very little other than score the odd goal which just isn't enough really. That pass where it went out of play, that control where it come off his shin, the dilly dallying, the constant misreading of Shola's knockdowns, that moment where he pointed for Shola to play it which he did, only for him to seemingly forget where he pointed to, going the other way instead. Thick as pig s*** that lad up stairs on that pitch. He scores goals though - and has proven in the past what a vital player he is for us (twice), late end of last season where his pace were perfect for changing the complexions of a game in an instant and when his goals saved us from relegation under Roeder. Lets not forget that, and lets not forget how when he did play in a team that knocked the ball about he did well. He needs the ball to his feet, not lumped to him from the defence. As for that little bit you described at the end, i actually thought it was no ones fault, if anything it was intelligent forward play from Martins where he made his run but checked it late to fool the defender - unfortunately Shola didnt read it. Martins didnt point at all. He's by no mean the complete package, and i dont think he ever will, but he's definitely a vital player for us in this paceless team. The ball was played to his feet a lot in the first half, but it didn't stick and the few times he was through he crossed the ball out of play or it went for a goal-kick after coming off his shin. He did point as well. There was no need to try and fool the defender either as he has the pace to get to Shola's ball, with the defender already flat on his feet. Not that he tried to fool the defender like, you're just excusing him. He offers us f*** all outside of the odd goal. His control, decision making, awareness and all-round game is abysmal for a £10m player who has been here a few years now and should have at least improved a little. If we can get our money back for him we should snap their hand off, although due to our small squad we'd need to get someone in first obviously. I can't remember many times in the past when one of our players has had such an abysmal game in terms of decision making, first touch, control, awareness and general hold-up play. Last night was s shocker for him no doubt - you definitely dont know what your gonna get some of his play WAS woeful but i still think "sayin he's done fuck all here since he's joined" is a bit much in my opinion. We'll have to agree to disagree about pointing, i definitely didnt see it, i wont question your credibilty as an authorative source of info though. . Im also not sure why theres no need to fool the defender? Surely trying to make space for yourselfis generally deemed intelligent play, Rooney does it all the time, even though he has the pace to outrun many defenders. In fact i think i'll stop here, your just talking bollocks mate, how you can say he offers very little other than the"odd goal" is beyond me. What did Owen offer before Keegan changed his role?

keegan likewise. This topic's about Mike Ashley btw. By all means continue with your digs at Keegan though if you want. ashley is in the s*** partly because keegan is untrustworthy. very relevant, especially when some people want keegan back. I trust Kevin Keegan a darn sight more than I ever will Mike Ashley. keegan took us to second in the league. ashley took us to second bottom of the league. where do people prefer to be.? how does that make any sense? try reading it again, some people were trying to turn this thread into ashley/ keegan thread, again,... i simply point out where each of these blokes has been able to get us to, so take your pick, 2nd...2nd bottom. 13 years ago though. pointless comparison in so many ways. At the end of the day it's who you feel would do right by the club. I feel that is obviously Keegan due to his history with us, whereas Ashley to me has proven the exact opposite. Others feel different which is their opinion at the end of the day. But how has he done right by the club by walking out at possilby the worst time? Theres nothing thats happened to him that hasnt happened to SBr but he didnt walk out - now thats the true measure of love for a club, he worked round it.

What should he have done? Im not sure what else he could of done.