fredbob

So you know that he had no intention of spending? Serious question bytheway becasue I've heard alot of of people stating Ashley's intentions and his real agenda but none seem keen to share any "inside information" that they know i dont, with me., or with anyone for that matter. Does anyone know how what was going on with KEegan affected his transfer plans? How many players did Keegan turn etc etc...? Im seriously keen on knowing becasue it seems to me that ALOT of people are basing DEFINITIVe opinions on the absolute bare minimum. As for the squad being shit - i dont get it, was it shit when we were drawing at old trafford? We have a good squad - we need a good manager to put things back on track. We are short of numbers and NO ONE outside the club knows the reason for this - but for some reason, seemingly logical and articultaed people are losing their minds over this.

I need a bit more too. Being undermined and not fully supported gives me that. Then add in the smear campaign and it doesn't look good for Ashley and co. What baffles me is the depths people will sink to in order to paint KK as the baddy in all this while totaly forgiving Ashley or ignoring their part in all this, like Tron implying KK can't be trusted with money, revisions of history and character assinations of a man who yes does have his faults, who yes did walk away at a bad time for the club but a man who deserves the benefit of the doubt surely if we are talking about no-one knowing what really happened over the likes of Ashley and dennis f***ing wise, given you know, what he's done for the club in the past and if that doesn't satisfy you, at least what he was doing for the team before he walked which was a damned sight more positive than we've been used to since Sir Bobby. What solid facts have you heard about the situation? (Serious question bytheway). I still dont know any real information. You sound like you're basing your opinion upon information i dont have, what is it?

Around the NE I speak to a lot of supporters who I think will subscribe to the popular press view that Ashley and Wise are the axis of evil and should be hounded out but I'm surprised how many are sympathetic to Ashley and think he would have meant progress. Most of these people are long time fans, getting on (mainly 40+) and attend matches. The degree of hostility seems to be much higher in the press and among the small NUSC mob than it is at street level, notwithstanding the staged for TV protests by charvers (most of whom never enter SJP) in the wake of Keegans walkout. I'd be interested to know who these people are. I dont; think too many of a sub 20,000 [which is what I would class as long term fans] will genuinely feel that Ashley was on course to emulate the most eureopean qualifications bar 4 other clubs, when they have experience of the utter s**** that passed for most of the previous 30 years. In short, thats a load of crap. Look mate just sick to your repeated insane rants about Freddie & Co and let me relate what I hear when I talk to fellow NUFC supporters I know. FFS now you think you know what my mates are saying better than I do !! Please notice that what I said was that most of the people I speak to (aged 40+) said Ashley's way would have meant PROGRESS, not INSTANT success which you seem to think is the only yardstick by which to judge anyone in comparison to Freddie's "glory days". If you still can't believe that take a look at the results of the poll above. At present 83% disagree with NUSC - which is a single agenda pressure group i.e. "Ashley and the "cockney" mafia out". Therefore by implication most of the 83% disagree with that stance. Geddit ? You really have to raise your level of debating above your belief that everyone who disagrees with you is speaking "a load of crap". In fact from what I've read on here the opposite is closer to the truth. in fact, in my experience, most people who are over 40, would not have thought Ashley was "making progress" because they had seen s*** owners showing no ambition before. That is the point of what I said. The conclusion being that they were not at all "long term supporters". I think a poll on a message board is pretty irrelevant to be honest. The decrease in match attendances, apathy and demonstrations is far more representative. As for a "load of crap", I remember you and others telling me - and a few others - we were talking crap when we told you that Ashley was an amateur and taking the club nowhere. So did you actually see nothing in the Ashley era which gave you any positive thoughts? This isnt intended to be a new board old board slag fest but this is what i saw that was positive for the club (irrespective of any potential agenda) - the fact that as a club we no longer owe mass debts to 3rd parties who charge vast amounts of interest. (Stadium paid off?) - A modern structure (something I see as positive - you wont, thats fair enough) - Investment and focus on the youth side - a transfer policy designed to restricted over-spending and paying over the odds without compromising on quality - attempting to make a reconnection with the community (although i'll admit with whats happened recently this may sound laughable) - providing a cloak of secrecy around the club and cutting out the poisonous media who have been detri mental to the club. - I did see signs that the club were looking to invest with the Woodgate bids and the Modric bids - teniuos becasue of the end results but non the less a good sign in my book. - They made a positive appointment, it may of turned sour but the bottom line is that they did look to make an ambitious appointment. - Getting rid of deadwood at the club. I wouldnt even began to say that everything was perfect and brilliant becasue its hasnt been - mistakes have been made but i did see enough to suggest that they were looking to do good by the club. Is there nothing here that you can acknowledge as being good for the club?

Apologies for the obesession but this group has really got under my skin, not aimed at you specifically - more shotgun. Of course they provide a voice for Newcastle fans as they are called Newcastle United Supporters Club & there membership will be made up of Newcastle fans. I am not bothered if you aim it at me or not as I not in NUSC. Im a fan of Newcastle United - does that not mean they represent my view? Yes, yes it does, thats my point and thats the point that you dont seem to want to accept. Fair enough though, each to their own.

fyp No you haven't, you have edited to suit you opinon & make you look dashingly witty. Thank you. p.s - yeh you're so right those statements are perfectly fine and not idiotic in the slightest

now - terry/lampard past - wise

Past has to be Henry - for me he's possibly the greatest premiership player ever. Though I hated him for his smugness and completely faked modesty when celebrated an amazing goal. Also a moody bastard. Loved him for being a rarity in the game - a striker who could take teams apart on his own, not many strikers who can/could influence a game as much as him. Only other one i can think of off the top of my head in recent times is Ronaldo, which says a lot. Present - Fagregas/Rooney. Love the artistry in Fabregas - excellent player who finds it hard to get tackled, superb passer of the ball heartbeat of the arsenal side. Rooney has a strange mix of flair and grit which you dont see often in British players. One of the few players in the world who were born to play the game.

On his day, he's fantastic to watch. Recently against Croatia and Blackburn he was amazing. Too bad his day is once every couple of months. Well obviously I'm not going to agree with that. Over the last couple of years, we've not always seen him at his best, because he's not been not been played at his best role. The price of versatility is that you get asked to fit in around the needs of the team. Let's also remember the lad is still 22. He's still about six years off his peak. The performance I remember is when he was still a teenager, and he'd just moved to Man U. It was his first game back at Everton, and he had death threats, abuse every time he touched the ball - a lot of pressure on a young lad. He played a brilliant game with a cool head, and not a hint of nerves or undue aggression. Balls of steel. A player who could yet win us a World Cup. Age doesn't come into it at all. The best we've seen of Rooney was at Euro 2004 at only 18, when he actually looked like a world class player. 4 years later and he still hasn't been able to reproduce that kind of form. Not forgetting the world's best player is only 21 and light years ahead of Rooney. To be fair - Rooney at 18 was a raw natural talent who was prodigal. At 22 he's actually the better team player. Less exciting to watch but a hell of a lot more useful for the team. Although having said that id take 2004 over present Rooney.

fyp http://www.newcastle-united-supporters-club.co.uk/statement-1909.php Apologies for the obesession but this group has really got under my skin, not aimed at you specifically - more shotgun.

Statements are "riling" people because there put together with a notepad and a fucking crayon. NUSC could of done some decent PR for the club and the fans and put to bed some "myths" about nufc fans, but instead they do nothing but intensify the belief that we're all delusional...

I am pissed off at people thinking that NUSC represents them it, strangely it represents Newcastle United Supporters Club. Are you in the club? I am guessing no here, so it doesn't represent you. As 'the voice of Newcastle United Supporters' of course I feel they represent me. I have no choice in the f***ing matter. They are the go to boys for the national media. Nice to see you missed Club off It is like saying the British National Party represent everyone who is a British National. That is a stinker of a comparison. Try Labour governemnt representing those who vote labour, then you'd be closer to home.

Or how about... Would we be better off today if Ashley accepted that Keegan needs to be in charge of buying and selling? After all, he was the manager and in light of the failure to sufficiently strengthen the squad, I do believe putting the selling and buying of players into the hands of others has been a catastophic mistake in terms of the first-team, never mind the impact it has had on losing the manager. I say that because even if we did accept KK's resignation and Ashley got in a new manager, that new manager would still be working with an understrength squad which on top of the fall-out from KK going (even if we did accept it, people would still be upset - fans and players), would make any new manager's job doubly hard from the get go, therefore increasing the prospect of failing. To answer your question my own opinion would be no, not really. No manager worth their salt would touch us knowing the previous manager was undermined and not fully supported. Forget names like Zico and Deschamps - they were just rumours and there is no guarantee even names like that would succeed anyway given how tough a job this is even in normal circumstances. Accepting KK's resignation may have allowed Ashley to bring in someone new to replace KK but I don't believe for one minute that someone would be a quality appointment or the right man for the job. Furthermore that appointment would still have been constrained by the failing system which is the key and critical weakness of the whole club under Ashley. A new manager would have papered the cracks that is all. While I'm not happy it has come to this I'd rather know that the manager was being undermined than let it go on behind the scenes in secret not knowing, because that kind of thing will blow up at some point. If it wasn't KK or today, it would have been with another manager another day. It unfolding now in the way it has brought out the truth which is that Ashley and co are not the right people for Newcastle United and I'm grateful for that (small mercies and all that) if not exactly over the moon about it all. If Ashley was the right owner for this club the question I have posed at the top of this post would have been resolved or wouldn't have been an issue. KK would still be our manager and we'd be progressing rather than stuck in this self created mangled mess we are in now. We as fans can only accept what our hearts tell us, our job is to lend our myriad of emotions to the club we follow which the game of football suck from us like blood and would die if we didn't turn up with our hearts on our sleeves. It is too much and wrong to ask fans to be cold hearted and business like which accepting KK resigning and allowing Ashley and co total immunity from any blame, criticism or whatever, would be. It isn't our fault things have turned out like they have, we responded like we are meant to or rather the way we are built to as emotional beings. You can't criticise fans for, well, being fans surely? What did people expect from fans when this all blew up? To go "OK then, bye Kev - on with your duties Mike"? If we were cold hearted and businesslike we wouldn't be fans. It is the fault of Ashley and co this whole mess and they have responded to it very badly indeed. Regardless of the scenario you create, the outcome always points to Newcastle United in turmoil. We are now placed in a position where we can only hope for the best because this must be the most uncertain time in the club's history. I don't know about you but what is around the corner scares the f*** out of me, especially the way football as a whole is going never mind just our club. If only we could rewind back to the day we reappointed KK and give him what all managers need, full control and support. If that happened this whole discussion wouldn't be an issue and we'd most probably be higher up the table looking to a healthy future. That is the true question that needs asked and answered and not the one you posed Chez. Considering that so much of what you've put is 'conjecture stated as fact' I'll do the same. If i was the owner why should I give a manager £40m of my money to buy whoever he wants even it it contravenes the way i want the money spending? Do i not have a say on how it gets spent? Do you not think thats how Ashley might see it?

Or the gaping holes in the squad. Or not backing the manager's judgement. Or lying to the fans. See, you almost say it like this is the first and only time ever that this has happened. You're also not acknowledging Keegans role in us not signing players...or his porkie pies.

I don't think there really is that much difference, that's a very good point. I think FS did interfere with transfers, although to what degree we don't really know. Same as now then? Yeah, I've never argued otherwise. Sorry, that wasnt a dig at you, just a general point. Im yet to see a decent reason for there actions and the precedent would suggest that they actually have no valid reason to do what they've done or at least that they're about 5-6 years too late in there actions.

To be fair - we arent out the woods yet. Ashley may still have the debt payment as loan from him....

I don't think there really is that much difference, that's a very good point. I think FS did interfere with transfers, although to what degree we don't really know. Same as now then?

Isnt there a difference between agreeing and supporting?

I think the current climate could be very good for us as the clubs who borrow to buy players might be in a bit of s***. Might be good for us - but not for the prospective buyers who have a 17 Oct deadline, supposing Ashley is strict with it. Kinnear as manager - very little investment come Jan...not the rosiet picture.

Gambled, yes. That doesn't mean that they have harmed it, only time will tell. They havent harmed our future providing we find a suitable owner. Which in this current ecomonic climate is looking more and more difficult.

so have the actions of the nusc gambled with our future?

Massively off topic but its jst something ive been wondering - can anyone tell me the difference between DOF (Wise/Vetere/Jiminez) and an old school chairman like FS? What have this lot done that is so bad that Shepherd himself hasnt done in the past?

Not unless we get an owner who wants a toy, and there arent that many about. With West Ham alledegly going for £100m how attractive are we as an acquisition for an owner who wants a fashoin accessory. What if the new owners dont re-appoint Keegan? Then that's their decision at the end of the day. As long as they back whomever they appoint that's the main thing. And supposing we have an equally 'unproductive' window come Jan or the summer for reasons unknown are they to be forced out as well?

Yes, the only way this situation could be improved is unless we get an owner who wants a toy, and there arent that many about. With West Ham alledegly going for £100m how attractive are we as an acquisition for an owner who wants a fashoin accessory. What if the new owners dont re-appoint Keegan?

Did you type that with a straight face?