fredbob

Do you know the full facts of what happened or just certain snippets? Care to oblige? Found out the day before Keegan got appointed that he was taking the job and was promised £40 million at the very least to spend. Also the same person said that Keegan can't stand the site of Wise as he bypassed him time and time again with regards to the buying and selling of players. I'm not the only one on here who was told this by the same person. Do you know anything about the list that Keegan handed in? Becasue in my eyes thats where i pinpoint the major major issue and breakdown. I see keegan looking at players who werent fitting in with the clubs policy. If my hunch is correct as an owner i wouldnt have a clue how to go about it. Im not sure id be keen on letting my manager have so much money if i knew from the off he wasnt going to buy the right type of players for the club. ah the mythical list. i wonder what ammount of truth there is to that. mythical? Im pretty sure keegan openely talked about swapping lists with Wise and having to have to look up some of the players. but what do we know about which actual players were on either list. thats why i asked about it. thought you were using it as one of those rhetorical thingies "rhetocial thingies" is that a technical term?! look i spelled rhetorical wright touche. the fun bit is i didn't even realise. had to check because of your reply. and they have the audacity to question the british education system....bastards.

Do you know the full facts of what happened or just certain snippets? Care to oblige? Found out the day before Keegan got appointed that he was taking the job and was promised £40 million at the very least to spend. Also the same person said that Keegan can't stand the site of Wise as he bypassed him time and time again with regards to the buying and selling of players. I'm not the only one on here who was told this by the same person. Do you know anything about the list that Keegan handed in? Becasue in my eyes thats where i pinpoint the major major issue and breakdown. I see keegan looking at players who werent fitting in with the clubs policy. If my hunch is correct as an owner i wouldnt have a clue how to go about it. Im not sure id be keen on letting my manager have so much money if i knew from the off he wasnt going to buy the right type of players for the club. ah the mythical list. i wonder what ammount of truth there is to that. mythical? Im pretty sure keegan openely talked about swapping lists with Wise and having to have to look up some of the players. but what do we know about which actual players were on either list. thats why i asked about it. thought you were using it as one of those rhetorical thingies "rhetocial thingies" is that a technical term?! look i spelled rhetorical wright touche.

Do you know the full facts of what happened or just certain snippets? Care to oblige? Found out the day before Keegan got appointed that he was taking the job and was promised £40 million at the very least to spend. Also the same person said that Keegan can't stand the site of Wise as he bypassed him time and time again with regards to the buying and selling of players. I'm not the only one on here who was told this by the same person. Do you know anything about the list that Keegan handed in? Becasue in my eyes thats where i pinpoint the major major issue and breakdown. I see keegan looking at players who werent fitting in with the clubs policy. If my hunch is correct as an owner i wouldnt have a clue how to go about it. Im not sure id be keen on letting my manager have so much money if i knew from the off he wasnt going to buy the right type of players for the club. ah the mythical list. i wonder what ammount of truth there is to that. mythical? Im pretty sure keegan openely talked about swapping lists with Wise and having to have to look up some of the players. but what do we know about which actual players were on either list. thats why i asked about it. thought you were using it as one of those rhetorical thingies "rhetocial thingies" is that a technical term?!

To be fair, im talking specifically abiout the type of players they purchased ie younger, lower wages, residual value etc not neccessarily who signed them. Its why i asked about the list becasue i was interested to see who Keegan was after and if it contradicted this policy. Its where i see the major sticking point.

Do you know the full facts of what happened or just certain snippets? Care to oblige? Found out the day before Keegan got appointed that he was taking the job and was promised £40 million at the very least to spend. Also the same person said that Keegan can't stand the site of Wise as he bypassed him time and time again with regards to the buying and selling of players. I'm not the only one on here who was told this by the same person. Do you know anything about the list that Keegan handed in? Becasue in my eyes thats where i pinpoint the major major issue and breakdown. I see keegan looking at players who werent fitting in with the clubs policy. If my hunch is correct as an owner i wouldnt have a clue how to go about it. Im not sure id be keen on letting my manager have so much money if i knew from the off he wasnt going to buy the right type of players for the club. ah the mythical list. i wonder what ammount of truth there is to that. mythical? Im pretty sure keegan openely talked about swapping lists with Wise and having to have to look up some of the players. but what do we know about which actual players were on either list. thats why i asked about it.

Do you know the full facts of what happened or just certain snippets? Care to oblige? Found out the day before Keegan got appointed that he was taking the job and was promised £40 million at the very least to spend. Also the same person said that Keegan can't stand the site of Wise as he bypassed him time and time again with regards to the buying and selling of players. I'm not the only one on here who was told this by the same person. Do you know anything about the list that Keegan handed in? Becasue in my eyes thats where i pinpoint the major major issue and breakdown. I see keegan looking at players who werent fitting in with the clubs policy. If my hunch is correct as an owner i wouldnt have a clue how to go about it. Im not sure id be keen on letting my manager have so much money if i knew from the off he wasnt going to buy the right type of players for the club. It should be the manager's decision as to what player is right for the club. What qualifies Dennis Wise over Kevin Keegan with regards to what player is right for this club? It should be the owners right to ensure that any policy he implements is adhered to, no? Im not backing wise over keegan im backing the sytem/structure and policy over Keegan. For what its worth - i do agree that the manager should choose who he manages but not at the expense of a fundamental club policy.

Do you know the full facts of what happened or just certain snippets? Care to oblige? Found out the day before Keegan got appointed that he was taking the job and was promised £40 million at the very least to spend. Also the same person said that Keegan can't stand the site of Wise as he bypassed him time and time again with regards to the buying and selling of players. I'm not the only one on here who was told this by the same person. Do you know anything about the list that Keegan handed in? Becasue in my eyes thats where i pinpoint the major major issue and breakdown. I see keegan looking at players who werent fitting in with the clubs policy. If my hunch is correct as an owner i wouldnt have a clue how to go about it. Im not sure id be keen on letting my manager have so much money if i knew from the off he wasnt going to buy the right type of players for the club. ah the mythical list. i wonder what ammount of truth there is to that. mythical? Im pretty sure keegan openely talked about swapping lists with Wise and having to have to look up some of the players.

Do you know the full facts of what happened or just certain snippets? Care to oblige? Found out the day before Keegan got appointed that he was taking the job and was promised £40 million at the very least to spend. Also the same person said that Keegan can't stand the site of Wise as he bypassed him time and time again with regards to the buying and selling of players. I'm not the only one on here who was told this by the same person. Do you know anything about the list that Keegan handed in? Becasue in my eyes thats where i pinpoint the major major issue and breakdown. I see keegan looking at players who werent fitting in with the clubs policy. If my hunch is correct as an owner i wouldnt have a clue how to go about it. Im not sure id be keen on letting my manager have so much money if i knew from the off he wasnt going to buy the right type of players for the club.

Do you know the full facts of what happened or just certain snippets? Care to oblige?

Hold on, thats not the reason Keegan said he left. I take it you know something i dont care to share some facts?? (Serious question bytheway) Keegan resigned because he wasn't allowed to manage. All of which including the players being brought in were part of. Oh ok, so no insider facts then? So if he only had partial say on who came and went - at which point did it make his job untentable? The last day of the window? Somethings rotten in the state of Denmark - its definitely not as straightforward as you'd like to make out.

Hold on, thats not the reason Keegan said he left. I take it you know something i dont care to share some facts?? (Serious question bytheway)

Exactly ,new regime and we start over and would he stay if his sidekicks went we will probably never know but its a pity we always have to start from scratch every time there are changes up above and thats us atm and stability is what we need in the years to come . Stability is definitely what we need. Shame they never thought about that with their actions towards their 'Golden Egg' if you will. Or perhaps if we'd all showed a little bit more patience...we'd maybe have had precisely the stability this club is crying out for. Just seems whenever there's any small sign of hope we all collectively manage to f*** it all up for ourselves. If you think stability is what we're going to get from here on in, I'd love to know what makes you so sure. Did I ever actually say we were going to get stability? A little more patience? I don't ever recall anyone demanding instant success and most were happy with the way things were going until it all kicked off. No. But do you not see the irony in pining for stability and having campaigned to oust the cockney mafia? No. OK then.

How exactly? The players are still there. 45k still turn up and cheer on the team. The world is still turning. Supporters are fickle if the team starts to do well. A quality new manager, some good results, and all is forgiven.Easy to do with the great squad we now have, and with the super setup in place, any manager would be mad not to come surely? But no, apparently a few banners make his position untenable. A couple of protests and some strongly worded emails have driven him out. The reason the stubborn, hard nosed businessman is selling the club is because he's upset. It has nothing to do with the fact he's been trying to offload the club for months, no siree, nothing at all. So why not give him the chance to do so? Why protest and set up supporters group with the sole intention of ousting him? Put it simply - had the fans been more passive and less voiciferous, do you think he still would of sold? Do you think his family deserve to hear the sort of vile diatribe that will no doubt be aimed at him irrespective of where he sits? A lookalike got attacked, purely for the reason he was mistaken as Ashley, irrespective of how good his security is do you not think that that may of been a factor when deciding to sell? Yes. Not quite so publicly perhaps, but yes. Then why sell now when its possibly least valuable to him? Why not sell at end of the season with the possiblity that the club is on the up? Why not keep Keegan at the helm with the club doing well and sell at more of a profit there? Doesnt make perfect sense. It will be less and less as attractive a prospect to buy as the season goes on if results stay the same. I guess Ashley wants to sell ASAP as he agrees more with me about the quality of the squad than with you. At the end of the season there's a distinct possibility that the club will be in the Championship. Selling now (at a price he wants) or later is all about the risk he's willing to take on that happening. It's obviously not as easy as he thought it would be to keep a club in the premiership with little to no outlay on the squad. You're assuming Ashley didn't try and would have been able to persuade Keegan to stay on. Who knows. Even with Keegan in charge, at best we'd only have achieved an out of Europe mid table finish with players like Owen out the door at the end of the season. I don't see how that makes us significantly more attractive a proposition than now tbh. Thats one gigantic if. It basicaly boils down to the belief that you think Ashley thinks we will get relegated this season and nothing else. How can i argue agaisnt that? 3 games into the season we were on 4 points and looking good - now all of a sudden we're distinct relegation candidates becasue our squad isnt great. Sorry - dont buy it im afraid. Why were we looking good again? Was it perhaps the manager who got those bunch of misfits last season to actually start playing football. I think it was. Could be mistaken mind. Whats your point? You cant look good if you have a crap squad, therefore its not as bad as squad as people would have you believe. Which is my point. Im sad that Keegan has gone - i honestly was loving the outlook of this club when he was in charge - you'll have to tak e my word for it becasue i realise im coming across as anti keegan, but i dont think what he did in his short time is unrepeatable. Im pretty confident that another manager could come in and do a good job as well.

I hope you're right, but I don't think it's as big an "if" as you'd like to make out. I don't think Ashley thinks we definitely will get relegated, but I'm pretty sure, like me, he thinks it's a not too unrealistic a prospect. It's a bigger risk than he thought when he bought the club, one he's not willing to take, and he's been looking to get out since last season. I'm basing my assessment of the risk of relegation on how the core of the current squad did last season (with a relatively low injury affected season), and the fact that I don't think we've improved on that squad very much if we've improved at all, rather than basing it on one game against an injury hit Man Utd side (not trying to belittle the result, but it's not an insignificant point - we were overrun until Carrick went off), and an unconvincing home win against Bolton. Fair enough, i just dont see us having one of the 3 weakest squads in the league. i also think the quality of the first team HAS improved and as Keegan proved a good manager could make it work.

I heard that he had full say as well - im not denying that. What im saying is that if Keegan in actual fact had no say on the recruitments then why didnt he walk earlier? There cant of been a wierd mix of having full say on certain players but not on others, thats a ludicrous suggestion. There can be for the first team and the kids I feel. Pretty undebatable argument that is. Im not sure how that works. How are you not sure? Im not sure how keegan would let that happen and be happy with it (Jonas perhaps being an example of what you're saying) and then being unhappy with it further down the line and using it as a primary reason for walking. Theres a contradiction in his priciples there.

I heard that he had full say as well - im not denying that. What im saying is that if Keegan in actual fact had no say on the recruitments then why didnt he walk earlier? There cant of been a wierd mix of having full say on certain players but not on others, thats a ludicrous suggestion. There can be for the first team and the kids I feel. Pretty undebatable argument that is. Im not sure how that works.

I heard that he had full say as well - im not denying that. What im saying is that if Keegan in actual fact had no say on the recruitments then why didnt he walk earlier? There cant of been a wierd mix of having full say on certain players but not on others, thats a ludicrous suggestion.

I was actually looking for the post regarding the club meeting fans representatives, as I'd been thinking how that had been short-lived and now instead of meeting with fans to hear their points of view and concerns they have a lynch mob masquerading as an official supporters club. How the f*** does all matters relating to the first team not include making the final decision on what first team players to sign though? Wise can assist as much as he likes with recruiting the players but the manager should have been selecting the players to recruit IMO. So you mean to so Keegan had no say whatsoever on player recruitment? He either did or he didnt, theres no grey area in this becasue Keegans principles are so strong, right? Er no I don't mean that, the fact that I didn't say that should have tipped you off. I'm saying that being responsible for all matters relating to the first team means having full control over everything that relates to the first team, including deciding on which first team players to sign. How can you be held responsible for something you don't have full control over? Make up your mind. He either had full say from the off or he didnt. Which is it? Becasue we know the minute Keegans undemined he'll walk becasue his principles are so strong, right?

Ok - so change the word owners with managers.

How exactly? The players are still there. 45k still turn up and cheer on the team. The world is still turning. Supporters are fickle if the team starts to do well. A quality new manager, some good results, and all is forgiven.Easy to do with the great squad we now have, and with the super setup in place, any manager would be mad not to come surely? But no, apparently a few banners make his position untenable. A couple of protests and some strongly worded emails have driven him out. The reason the stubborn, hard nosed businessman is selling the club is because he's upset. It has nothing to do with the fact he's been trying to offload the club for months, no siree, nothing at all. So why not give him the chance to do so? Why protest and set up supporters group with the sole intention of ousting him? Put it simply - had the fans been more passive and less voiciferous, do you think he still would of sold? Do you think his family deserve to hear the sort of vile diatribe that will no doubt be aimed at him irrespective of where he sits? A lookalike got attacked, purely for the reason he was mistaken as Ashley, irrespective of how good his security is do you not think that that may of been a factor when deciding to sell? Yes. Not quite so publicly perhaps, but yes. Then why sell now when its possibly least valuable to him? Why not sell at end of the season with the possiblity that the club is on the up? Why not keep Keegan at the helm with the club doing well and sell at more of a profit there? Doesnt make perfect sense. It will be less and less as attractive a prospect to buy as the season goes on if results stay the same. I guess Ashley wants to sell ASAP as he agrees more with me about the quality of the squad than with you. At the end of the season there's a distinct possibility that the club will be in the Championship. Selling now (at a price he wants) or later is all about the risk he's willing to take on that happening. It's obviously not as easy as he thought it would be to keep a club in the premiership with little to no outlay on the squad. You're assuming Ashley didn't try and would have been able to persuade Keegan to stay on. Who knows. Even with Keegan in charge, at best we'd only have achieved an out of Europe mid table finish with players like Owen out the door at the end of the season. I don't see how that makes us significantly more attractive a proposition than now tbh. Thats one gigantic if. It basicaly boils down to the belief that you think Ashley thinks we will get relegated this season and nothing else. How can i argue agaisnt that? 3 games into the season we were on 4 points and looking good - now all of a sudden we're distinct relegation candidates becasue our squad isnt great. Sorry - dont buy it im afraid.

would have to second this - however id like to point out that Xisco said it was Keegan that convinced him to come when he spoke to him and was 'gutted' when he left which suggests he was part of "sale".

Aye, as a mechanism for supplying instant success it has proved sadly deficient. As a mechanism for supplying almost instant relegation though, it's proving worryingly efficient. that i suppose we'll have to wait and see (and hope not). i still feel we were closer to relegation under allardyce than we are now. For largely the same reason - lack of investment in the squad. (Though I never wanted Allardyce and think he would never have succeeded). how many more times does the nail have to be hit squarely on the head here exactly...how many times do you need telling that giving a s*** manager loads of money still takes you backwards. how many times do you need to be told that its impossible to appoint a winning manager every time, and good managers - if you find one - will piss off to clubs that back them if they are with clubs that don't. But crap managers like all but one of those Shepherd appointed usually piss off to be unemployed. but, you supported Allardyce and Souness didn't you ? So thats 3 assuming you supported Bobby Robson. That means you agreed with Shepherd 3 times. I bet you supported Dalglish and Gullit too didn't you Wouldnt that suggest that he was actually behind Shepherd and therefore didnt have a personal agenda against him? Like most of us we supported Shepherd decisions because we had no choice - doesnt mean we believed them to be great managerial appointments. I didnt want Allardyce at the club - i wanted Sven but i supported Shephereds decision to appoint him.

Not really boycoutt innit. relegation innit. complete shambles innit. again and again, innit. Precisely. Its so obvious that we're gonna get relegated now the messiah has left - the only action is to force the owner out, that'll guarentutee us safety.

I was actually looking for the post regarding the club meeting fans representatives, as I'd been thinking how that had been short-lived and now instead of meeting with fans to hear their points of view and concerns they have a lynch mob masquerading as an official supporters club. How the f*** does all matters relating to the first team not include making the final decision on what first team players to sign though? Wise can assist as much as he likes with recruiting the players but the manager should have been selecting the players to recruit IMO. So you mean to so Keegan had no say whatsoever on player recruitment? He either did or he didnt, theres no grey area in this becasue Keegans principles are so strong, right?

How exactly? The players are still there. 45k still turn up and cheer on the team. The world is still turning. Supporters are fickle if the team starts to do well. A quality new manager, some good results, and all is forgiven.Easy to do with the great squad we now have, and with the super setup in place, any manager would be mad not to come surely? But no, apparently a few banners make his position untenable. A couple of protests and some strongly worded emails have driven him out. The reason the stubborn, hard nosed businessman is selling the club is because he's upset. It has nothing to do with the fact he's been trying to offload the club for months, no siree, nothing at all. So why not give him the chance to do so? Why protest and set up supporters group with the sole intention of ousting him? Put it simply - had the fans been more passive and less voiciferous, do you think he still would of sold? Do you think his family deserve to hear the sort of vile diatribe that will no doubt be aimed at him irrespective of where he sits? A lookalike got attacked, purely for the reason he was mistaken as Ashley, irrespective of how good his security is do you not think that that may of been a factor when deciding to sell? Yes. Not quite so publicly perhaps, but yes. Then why sell now when its possibly least valuable to him? Why not sell at end of the season with the possiblity that the club is on the up? Why not keep Keegan at the helm with the club doing well and sell at more of a profit there? Doesnt make perfect sense.