fredbob

How exactly? The players are still there. 45k still turn up and cheer on the team. The world is still turning. Supporters are fickle if the team starts to do well. A quality new manager, some good results, and all is forgiven.Easy to do with the great squad we now have, and with the super setup in place, any manager would be mad not to come surely? But no, apparently a few banners make his position untenable. A couple of protests and some strongly worded emails have driven him out. The reason the stubborn, hard nosed businessman is selling the club is because he's upset. It has nothing to do with the fact he's been trying to offload the club for months, no siree, nothing at all. So why not give him the chance to do so? Why protest and set up supporters group with the sole intention of ousting him? Put it simply - had the fans been more passive and less voiciferous, do you think he still would of sold? Do you think his family deserve to hear the sort of vile diatribe that will no doubt be aimed at him irrespective of where he sits? A lookalike got attacked, purely for the reason he was mistaken as Ashley, irrespective of how good his security is do you not think that that may of been a factor when deciding to sell?

It's been niggling away at me for a few weeks but how do you know that Keegan didn't turn down every player they suggested and that's why we're short on numbers? I'm not sticking up for Jimenez or otherwise, but no-one really knows the truth do they, apart from KK, Jimenez, Wise and Llambias? He may well have turned some players down, but he even said in his statement after he left that no manager should have players forced upon them so he probably got fed up of players he'd never heard of turning up training. Sorry to dredge this up again, but if they had let KK bring in his own players we would have had a bigger, probably more balanced squad than we have now, not only that, but we'd still have a manager. I'm delighted Jiminez has gone because he was part of a failed recruitment regime, Wise should have been sacked on September 2nd too. Really can't wait to see the back of him. Don't we have to take it as fact that Keegan did not have any say in transfers therefore if the triangle of evil identified the player then the only reason he isn't here is due to personal terms not being met? Or are we now allowed to speculate that Keegan turned players down and therefore by definition had an input to the transfer activity? I'm confused.com Thought id bring this post back up becasue it "accidently" got ignored..... answers on a postcard please, im intrrigued.

Aw! Did the nasty man say bad things about Uncle Freddie? Poor baby! Here's a new dummy. See how long you can keep this one inside the pram. Is Freddy NE5's uncle? I know theres some link between the 2 somewhere.... He's clearly talking about Keegan there like. One track minds some people indeed I was. Pretty amazing that anybody didn't realise. New heights of dumbness.......... I think Ozzie Mandiarse needs serious help to be honest. How old is he ? So whats your relation to Shepherd out of interest? Im genuinely interested , no worries if you dont want to say. oh dear. Honestly ne5, it was a genuine question, if you dont want to answer it then thats fine. Judging by this one man onslaught, i take it you're back from the pub?! yep, I've been to the pub. And ? You have asked me this before BTW, and sorry to say, the answer is the same as the last time. Why do you think that anybody who says anything positive about the old board is their guardian angels or something ? Honestly fredbob, I'm staggered you are still going down this route, after recent events Sorry, something Ozzie said reminded me about your relation with Shepherd, i was just curious, no agenda behind it, i just remmeber not getting an answer out of you last time. I genuinely no longer have an issue with you defending the old board, hence the reason i no longer have long drawn out debates with you anymore- well less frequented anyway. I actually probably feel the same about the current board as you do about the old board - crazy isnt it? Im open to people criticising my viewpoint but i want to see one more season from the current lot before i let the vocal majority speak for me and force them out. I wouldn't take any notice of what Ozzie says like, I don't anyway. Do you think the new owner will seel this season then, or rather he didn't ? Well, if i understand your question rightly then i think yes he will sell, i think the fans have made his position unteneable, but as a secondary point, yes i would like to see one more season. Id like to of seen who he's of appointed and id of liked to of seen the club definitively, once and for all row in the same direction and see what happens. For me, there hasnt been enough solid evidence to categorically say that his plan has been a failure, and so far Im yet to hear any proper evidence from someone who does view the system as a complete failure. Its all supposition, conjecture and assumptions. Thats not a coincidence. If theres another break down in the system within that season ill of seen enough to suggest that yes - this isnt right for newcastle its time to move on - but so far this all seems too premature and ill thought out.

Its a fair point but when was the last time we had such a seemingly successful window? In the sense that so far we havent signed any duds for extortionate prices? The number of players we have sgined is a massive concern but do you not even entertain the possiblity that with the right team (inc. manager) rowing all in the same direction, then maybe, just maybe we might get it right? Or do you beleive that we were never destined to buy alot of players? To me, its a question of how much the keegan/wise thing had affected our recruitment efforts with both seemingly rowing in oppoisite directions.

Aw! Did the nasty man say bad things about Uncle Freddie? Poor baby! Here's a new dummy. See how long you can keep this one inside the pram. Is Freddy NE5's uncle? I know theres some link between the 2 somewhere.... He's clearly talking about Keegan there like. One track minds some people indeed I was. Pretty amazing that anybody didn't realise. New heights of dumbness.......... I think Ozzie Mandiarse needs serious help to be honest. How old is he ? So whats your relation to Shepherd out of interest? Im genuinely interested , no worries if you dont want to say. oh dear. Honestly ne5, it was a genuine question, if you dont want to answer it then thats fine. Judging by this one man onslaught, i take it you're back from the pub?! yep, I've been to the pub. And ? You have asked me this before BTW, and sorry to say, the answer is the same as the last time. Why do you think that anybody who says anything positive about the old board is their guardian angels or something ? Honestly fredbob, I'm staggered you are still going down this route, after recent events Sorry, something Ozzie said reminded me about your relation with Shepherd, i was just curious, no agenda behind it, i just remmeber not getting an answer out of you last time. I genuinely no longer have an issue with you defending the old board, hence the reason i no longer have long drawn out debates with you anymore- well less frequented anyway. I actually probably feel the same about the current board as you do about the old board - crazy isnt it? Im open to people criticising my viewpoint but i want to see one more season from the current lot before i let the vocal majority speak for me and force them out.

Aw! Did the nasty man say bad things about Uncle Freddie? Poor baby! Here's a new dummy. See how long you can keep this one inside the pram. Is Freddy NE5's uncle? I know theres some link between the 2 somewhere.... He's clearly talking about Keegan there like. One track minds some people indeed I was. Pretty amazing that anybody didn't realise. New heights of dumbness.......... I think Ozzie Mandiarse needs serious help to be honest. How old is he ? So whats your relation to Shepherd out of interest? Im genuinely interested , no worries if you dont want to say. oh dear. Honestly ne5, it was a genuine question, if you dont want to answer it then thats fine. Judging by this one man onslaught, i take it you're back from the pub?!

Aw! Did the nasty man say bad things about Uncle Freddie? Poor baby! Here's a new dummy. See how long you can keep this one inside the pram. Is Freddy NE5's uncle? I know theres some link between the 2 somewhere.... He's clearly talking about Keegan there like. One track minds some people indeed I was. Pretty amazing that anybody didn't realise. New heights of dumbness.......... I think Ozzie Mandiarse needs serious help to be honest. How old is he ? So whats your relation to Shepherd out of interest? Im genuinely interested , no worries if you dont want to say.

Aw! Did the nasty man say bad things about Uncle Freddie? Poor baby! Here's a new dummy. See how long you can keep this one inside the pram. Is Freddy NE5's uncle? I know theres some link between the 2 somewhere.... He's clearly talking about Keegan there like. One track minds some people To be fair - it was a legitimate question. NE5 clearly has links with the old board and Shepherd in particular, I'm just curious.

Very ironic.

Aw! Did the nasty man say bad things about Uncle Freddie? Poor baby! Here's a new dummy. See how long you can keep this one inside the pram. Is Freddy NE5's uncle? I know theres some link between the 2 somewhere....

Aston Villa and Spurs had a similar "vision" at the start of the Premiership and it set them back 15 years. Unless you've been on Mars for the last 6 months you may realise we live in very different financial times to those of the last 15 years. Ashley's intention was not to stop spending, just to stop spending stupidly. Net spend under his tenure would suggest differently. I think his assumed tenure was a lot longer than one year. Therefore to judge him (or anyone) else on the one year since taking over a sinking ship would be unfair in the extreme. But there again what do the angry mob care about fairness ? you know what mate. This whole thread is ridiculous, from the title and the suggestion you are making , right down to the posters who - including yourself - continue demeaning the one man who has shown this club how to behave like a top football club, and drove everybody on in the process when he was given the power and freedom to do it. It was obvious ages ago that profit was the main motivation for them running this football club, and like true non-footballing people, they didn't understand how to go about doing it. They thought that 52000 fans would come and watch the club, come what may, [like a lot of others to be honest, that didn't see the club in the 70's and 80's], and probably wouldn't be told either [same again]. I don't suppose you and a few others will EVER admit to the success of the last board and the fact that they understood that they had to compete - much to your discredit - which in terms of "ticked boxes" is the biggest of all, and the reason why personally I will continue to point this out until someone else comes in and also understands. Because for me, no board will have a hope of matching them until they do. Saving the "sinking ship", when you are getting 52000 crowds, doesn't need too much to get it back on the right course again, and I will point out - again - that only 2 years ago they were in the UEFA Cup and finished 7th in the league, and currently most of the clubs top players, including the captain and his striking partner in particular, were also signed under the old board, not the current one. A league position that was only achieved twice in over 3 decades prior to the last board walking into the club. THAT is perspective. The sharp crash in the last year, should really not make it necessary any more for people like me to keep pointing it out. Ashley, best chairman/owner ? What a f***ing joke. We might still get worse again, and thats the frightening thing, but that also means another regime inferior to the Halls and Shepherd. Don't hold your breath if this does happen too. But Keegan has exposed them for the amateurs that they are. They've only been here for just over a year. They've messed up severely in that time but I still think that makes it a lot harsher to compare the previous regime with this one as they had much longer - and greater resources - to do both positive and negative things for the club. Well, they MAY not get it. And that is because, they didn't know what they are doing, and whats more, had an opportunity to admit it, but they didn't. Why dont you start a thread asking people there views on the old board? Maybe you'll actually see how wrong you are in your assumptions that everyone thinks the old board were evi and shit, they dont.

Impossible to argue with. When you use emotional language like 'it took a good man with Newcastle United in his heart to expose the sham', seriously, what can I say. You have a very sure view of Ashley, that he is clearly 'lying, conniving, manipulating and wholly untrustworthy', but for me there is very little about his intentions or the events that led to where we find ourselves that is particularly clear and straightforward. Oh, and I think most of the defending of the guy is only in reaction to some of the over the top attacks, not in any sense of loyalty to the er... fat cockney b******. It's true that it isn't clear what his intentions have been and people can put all sorts of interpretations on the various things he's done: - investing nothing in the first team squad for two consecutive transfer windows - sacking Allardyce (and paying him off with several million in the process) - the clumsy handling of the courtship of Redknapp that followed the sacking of Allardyce - appointing Keegan - appointing Wise, Jimenez. Llambias etc, - focusing on bringing young players in - the rumours about attempts to sell off first team squad members are just that, rumours. But Milner was sold for a very good price and from what KK was saying at the time it looks as though he thought that money was there for him to reinvest as he saw fit. So either KK was playing some sort of devious end game or he was duped I think. - backing Wise and praising him for his efforts in the Summer transfer window. I've not yet met a fan who wasn't seriously underwhelmed by our business in the window, maybe someone on here has got something to say on that? So is Ashley schizophrenic or what? My view is that he started out with good intentions but has found himself involved in a business in which he is way out of his depth. And by out of his depth I mean his abilties to run a sustainable business as well as his financial resources. The fact that he did no due diligence before he shelled out £130m says it all for me. He hadn't got a clue what he was buying. He is gifted at making money for himself though and will do so again when he sells on - but what a mess he has created. Finally, a post which actually has something to it. All of what you've said is fair enough, but theres always alternative lists which paint different pictures- theres also not enough in either list which gives anyone enough evidence to force him to leave. There are 2 major points for the anti Ashley brigade one is the keegan episode but he was replaceable and we still dont know what occured here, theres also the major and unilaterally agreed notion that enough wasnt invested in the squad, even though the squad HAS improved in quality there isnt enough depth. But the issue here is that it cant be said that categorically that Ashley was tigth with the purse strings or that he had no intention of investing becasue we dont know - it also can be said that we dont know how much of the keegan/wise saga actually effected our transfer plans. Can anyone point me to some solid evidence that Ashley had no intention of spending money, can anyone say that had we not got an extortionate bid for Milner we would of sold him? I can always point out that there is tedious evidnece that money was there - Woodgate, Modric, Colo etc, but obviously nothing solid becasue we didnt sign them in the end. If Ashley had these evil masterplans - there would be absolutely no reason to sign Colo for a club record, none whatsoever, he could of gone the bassong route...

OK, if you're going to present your beliefs as fact, provide proof. OK I should have put the IMO in front of that. The guy's a hard nosed business man and to be honest I'm not critical of the stance at all, I would be looking for exactly the same thing if I were in his position. It's like when you sell an item you are looking for the best deal you can get, speed does matter unless you have a pressing need for money and to the best of my knowledge I don't think Ashley is, you don't care if the item goes to a good home, you just want whats best for you. If he;s such a hard nosed businessman surely theres a good reason why he's selling at possibly the worst time for him and the club AND for potential investors? I'm not sure it is such a bad time, the club is an attractive proposition, he's looking to make 50 Mill profit apparently. Again he's not going to sell unless he gets the right price (for Role model, IMO), so if someone doesn't stump up the cash, he'll not sell simple as that. Recession really hasn't hit the PL teams yet, if the falling attendances continue and have a knock on effect with TV revenue, then yes there will be recession, Ashley could well see this as the Top of the market right now. You make it sound like he's choosing the best time to sell, when in fact the militia fans are doing the forcing. Had they not protested so much - do yout hink he would of sold? If not - any imtimation thats he's being manipulative hard nosed etc is moot. Back onto the non point though - how investable do you think a club is when its fans foce the last owner out - with no manager at the helm club in dissaray and no transfer window in sight for another 3 months to rectify some potential problems - all whilst close to bottom of the league.

OK, if you're going to present your beliefs as fact, provide proof. OK I should have put the IMO in front of that. The guy's a hard nosed business man and to be honest I'm not critical of the stance at all, I would be looking for exactly the same thing if I were in his position. It's like when you sell an item you are looking for the best deal you can get, speed does matter unless you have a pressing need for money and to the best of my knowledge I don't think Ashley is, you don't care if the item goes to a good home, you just want whats best for you. If he;s such a hard nosed businessman surely theres a good reason why he's selling at possibly the worst time for him and the club AND for potential investors? Because he knows he's not wanted and is practically being forced out? Not what i'd call hard nosed, and if he's not being hard nosed then what is he being?

Impossible to argue with. When you use emotional language like 'it took a good man with Newcastle United in his heart to expose the sham', seriously, what can I say. You have a very sure view of Ashley, that he is clearly 'lying, conniving, manipulating and wholly untrustworthy', but for me there is very little about his intentions or the events that led to where we find ourselves that is particularly clear and straightforward. Oh, and I think most of the defending of the guy is only in reaction to some of the over the top attacks, not in any sense of loyalty to the er... fat cockney b******. Impossible to argue with - mainly becasue i agree with it. Ill ask for a 15th time, whats the whole story in the Ashley vs Keegan saga? Some facts would be nice.

OK, if you're going to present your beliefs as fact, provide proof. OK I should have put the IMO in front of that. The guy's a hard nosed business man and to be honest I'm not critical of the stance at all, I would be looking for exactly the same thing if I were in his position. It's like when you sell an item you are looking for the best deal you can get, speed does matter unless you have a pressing need for money and to the best of my knowledge I don't think Ashley is, you don't care if the item goes to a good home, you just want whats best for you. If he;s such a hard nosed businessman surely theres a good reason why he's selling at possibly the worst time for him and the club AND for potential investors?

Which bits of it dont resonate with you? Most of it. The parts that other people have mentioned above. These show a basic lack of understanding of the club. He's been reading Louise Taylor's articles. So is there anything thats negative in that article that you'd agree with? If so, why?

Which bits of it dont resonate with you?

You think you've got it bad - I'm the only person here who actually doesnt know what happened at the club regarding Keegan, the people who know everything about Ashley's intention and what happneded at the club wont tell me what happened either...

Stone cold hard facts = Keegan was and is the Messiah, and can do no wrong. Ashley is Hitler's illegitimate son. Thought so. Would anyone from the supporters club like to oblige?

The irony is thats exactly the sort of image we should be portraying publicly, as this is what investors want to see. If you want an investor he has to see some sort of return. Gullible, spend-happy supporters who love to bend over and take it from behind is the ideal profile for an investor. A militant, incoherent supporter base is exactly the opposite of what they are looking for. Does anyone still think there is no connection with the turmoil/protests and poisonous atmosphere at the club and the lack of willing buyers? Precisely. If the NUSC had a single brain cell between them, the first thing they should of done is to play down the militant nature of the group, taken a far more diplomatic approach. All this group has done so far is vindicate what the press have been writing about us for years - and with the majority of the city behind what the NUSC stand for, they'd be right. The NUSC had a valuable and rare oppurtunity to represent the fans on a national (maybe even international) scale and present them as down to earth, realistic people who are deeply passionate about their club and want whats best for the club. Its not the picture i can see though.

Ashley's 'structured' plan as you put it was designed to raise the sell-on value of the club, nothing more. Clubs with debt are less attractive options, even more so in a credit crunch. Clubs without debt are very attractive options, even more so in a credit crunch. He will find this out very soon despite the on-field mess as he gets himself a healthy profit for his initial investment. That has been his intention all along. I'm not surprised you see it another way though, given your absurd claims in the opening post. More like KK blew a hole in your hopes that Ashley was the real deal, that's what this is all about. You don't want to admit he isn't and never was the real deal. Instead you'd rather denigrate a man who has done far more for this club than the man you laughingly claim as the best ever chairman or owner we've ever had. Look on the bright side HTT, as he's made the club a more attractive package by clearing the debt, at least there's a better chance of the club getting sold which is after all what everyone wants right? Ashley's 'structured' plan as you put it was designed to raise the sell-on value of the club, nothing more. Clubs with debt are less attractive options, even more so in a credit crunch. Clubs without debt are very attractive options, even more so in a credit crunch. He will find this out very soon despite the on-field mess as he gets himself a healthy profit for his initial investment. That has been his intention all along. I'm not surprised you see it another way though, given your absurd claims in the opening post. More like KK blew a hole in your hopes that Ashley was the real deal, that's what this is all about. You don't want to admit he isn't and never was the real deal. Instead you'd rather denigrate a man who has done far more for this club than the man you laughingly claim as the best ever chairman or owner we've ever had. Look on the bright side HTT, as he's made the club a more attractive package by clearing the debt, at least there's a better chance of the club getting sold which is after all what everyone wants right? Clearing the debt has since been tempered by the loss of a manager, massive fan unrest and a team on the pitch requiring major investment come January so it isn't that attractive an option to would be suitors. Although I suspect the lack of manager, fan unrest and damaged goods on the pitch will not prevent a sale or a huge profit for Ashley. It could prevent more suited or matched owner/s coming in though and indeed put any new owner/s back. Selling a club on the up in terms of the actual football is much easier to continue and grow than one that isn't running on a full bill of health. Whoever comes in will have to arrest, stabilise and then grow rather than going straight for growth. Where fans are concerned and the actual club that could mean more trial and errors in terms of managerial appointments and the transfer market and a few more wasted years of mediocrity. There will be no Abramovic type owner. As for the question of what everyone wants. Regardless of the answer it has been forced on us. Do I want my club to exchange hands once again? To go through the whole charade of appointing another new manager, giving that manager money and seeing what's what? Least of all accept a new mob all over again? No, not really. But what choice do we have? I don't want Ashley here because I can't trust him to do right by the club and with it fans. He has also lost all credibility in my eyes. I can't support that. Where does Keegans actions fit into all of this? Do you actually know how much Keegan was involved in the 'downfall' of the club? Or are you assuming thats its all been Ashley and his evil management structure? How many facts do you know regarding the keegan departure which have lead you to lose complete confidence in him? Seriuous question that, becasue as of yet i still havent heard all sides of the story and still dont know what actually went on? I mean, how do you think the club would of progressed if it was allowed to a la West Ham? Surely you recoginse that whats happened at West Ham is 10 times better and healthier than what is happening here.

Errrm, does anyone at the NUSC actually know any stone cold hard facts that they'd like to share with me about Keegans departure? Because a month down the line, i still know jack, what do they know that i dont, and what is it about what they know that gives them enough leverage to act in this sort of militant manner?

Well, i guess ill break the mould and say i kind of agree with most of that statement. If anything, the actions of the NUSC have vindicated that article to a certain degree.

To be honest it didnt sit right with me all summer when these stories kept appearing. People at work would pass some comment to me and I just used to brush it all of as s***-stirring rubbish from the Newcastle-hating press. With everything that has gone on, its made me re-evaluate it all and I just think there was something in the stories all along. Didnt he spurn an approach from ADUG and possibly even DIC? I just think he wanted to sell some shares in the club, lighten the burden on himself, i also think that if he wanted to sell, he could of definitely picked a better time, a much better time.