durhamunigeordie

Would like to see him on the bench but there still may not be room. Assuming it is unchanged apart from Sammy then there is Elliot/Harper, Santon, Perch, Gosling, Lovenkrands, Best and Shola there. Would personally much rather have Haris on the bench than Lovenkrands, but Pardew seems to like him. As much as I liked Pete in the championship he is not at this stage in his career (and whether he was at any stage is debatable) a premier league player.

The bib game got too much for me during those photos. All that I can conclude is that Tiote is not in any of them!

Coincides nicely with this - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-15967392

Perhaps Agent Bruce might have a different sort of managerial role lined up to go into! Anyway, real shame, sad to see him go.

See that Leeds, Everton and us all play at home this weekend. Look forward to some great scenes.

 

Jesus wept! great scenes!!!!!!? what the fuck.

 

As for the tribute it's abit scouse to me. A minutes silence would of been right in my eyes, and hopefully he would be left to peace..

Calm down mate it's obvious what he meant.

Or at least she approves of the idea.

Just ordered my tribute mug. Some great photos of Gary out there.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/535/speedmug.jpg/

Hate wearing football shirts so going to sort myself a tribute mug out with some of the great photos that have been doing the rounds.

Found this offer if anyone else fancies doing the same:

http://promo.snapfish.co.uk/xmasmug11/xmasmug11/

Pretty sure I won't be able to hold it in. It was only because I was in a kitchen full of housemates that I didn't ball my eyes out when I watched that Bryn Laws video, had to leave the room briefly to compose myself. It sounds as if Saturday will be a fitting tribute to Gary.

But the point is, why is it fair to label a man with an illness based on nothing other than guesswork? Is it any less fair to say he did it because he was an alcoholic, or a drug addict, or a schizophrenic, or because he had cancer? They're all illnesses or circumstances that can drive people to suicide and would all be based on as much evidence as the diagnosis of depression by those who didn't know the man i.e. none whatsoever.

 

I wouldn't want to offend anyone, particularly people who have suffered due to mental illness, but the people I would want to be offended by any coverage least are the Speed family. If his wife is saying he wasn't depressed and yet every paper has an article in it saying that he must have been and you don't understand the illness to think otherwise, that is not fair at all.

That is a very valid point, however, we were having an discussion on an internet forum - a place in which the majority of discussions are based on speculation and conjecture. Many of posts were more of a general discussion on depression and some of its effects. Although there were of course references to the possibility that this COULD have affected Gary, I don't think anyone was 'labelling' him with having suffered depression. Even if they someone had categorically that he had depression, I would hope that it wouldn't be 'labelling' him as this word itself has negative connotations.

I know I have broken my own promise not to enter into a debate, however, it is a topic that I feel passionately about. I'm not trying to have a go at anyone with a differing opinion, merely articulating my own. I hope that it is not deemed disrespectful.

http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php/site/article/11852/

 

This article does a good job of saying what I was getting at earlier.

 

You might find that some people who have had close contact with mental health issues, or had to deal with the so-called "mental-health industry" would find that astonishingly biased article quite offensive.

 

I'm not interested in starting a blue with fellow Toon fans at this time, and I confess that I am removed from might well be hyperbolic coverage of this tragedy, but the way that person has attacked and ridiculed some perfectly valid issues is very distasteful.

 

You're right to say that Gary was never suspected of suffering, much less diagnosed with depression. And it's perfectly valid to bring up that his family and agent, his friends and colleagues all say that he wasn't. But if it was suicide, and if it was not the... salacious alternative that has been trotted about, then depression is the most likely alternative - infinitely more plausible than a homocide made to look like suicide.

 

Wullie, I don't have a beef with you. What I do have is a family history of mental illness and an insight into the so-called "industry" that is supposedly cashing in on this tragedy.

 

Gary Speed: great player, great manager, great man... great loss

Did a much better job of articulating what I wanted to say 

http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php/site/article/11852/

 

This article does a good job of saying what I was getting at earlier.

You're right it is a good piece well written, however, I don't think anyone on here has 'assumed' he was suffering depression. I certainly haven't and if it sounds like I have then I apologise, but on a forum where there is a discussion of the possibilities going on I don't see anything wrong with what I or anyone else put.  This isn't really the place to continue this debate so I will leave it that and apologise if anyone took any offence to what I wrote.

All the players wearing the number 11 on their shorts would also be a fitting tribute. Think it has been done before.

I hate Man U fans. With the exception of those who follow them away - now there is a set of proper football fans. Almost feel a bit sorry for them because the rest of the plastics give them a bad name.

I think that diagnosing a man with suicidal depression without being in possession of a single fact in the case beyond the fact that he's dead is no less disrespectful than speculating about anything else that may have caused his death.

 

Maybe he was depressed. But maybe he wasn't. Maybe he was the victim of a tragic fluke accident, maybe he was murdered like alpal suggested. Some of these things are more likely than others but the only person with enough information to make that decision will be the coroner.

 

Gary Speed was an individual, a great one, and deserves more than a catch-all diagnosis based on other people's experiences. His wife and children don't seem to think he was suffering from depression and they might be wrong but their views also deserve more than dismissal from amateur internet psychologists.

Think you are wrong there mate. No one is trying to say for certain that is what happened, they are simply trying to give out some information to the many people who have stated or alluded to the fact that they don't necessarily fully understand depression.

Some great posts Thomas. I have wanted to say something for a couple of days so I will try to articulate my opinion below. This is a difficult subject to cover - I will endeavour to word my post as carefully as possible, however, if I accidentally make it sound like I am talking down to people or am belittling mental health I apologise in advance - that is not how it is meant to read. 

The greatest problem is that mental health has such a stigma attached to it that the majority of people do not understand it, nor do they have the information available to allow them to. Like you said Thomas, that is not their fault - it is merely reflective of society. Luckily things are starting to change and one day it will be a less taboo subject.

I myself have been very close to others suffering from depression. At this stage of course we are merely speculating, but it does appear to be a very viable option. The notion that just because Gary was laughing, joking and making plans for the future on Saturday means he could not have been depressed needs to be addressed. As people have posted above, if someone doesn't want you to know about their depression then you wont know. People have the ability to put on an 'act' so that they seem fine to others and sometimes they can even in a sense overcompensate so that they give the appearance of being very happy.

The conspiracy theories have started to go around because many feel that there has to be an explanation to what has happened. The reality, if indeed this is a case of depression, is much much darker and this may be why people are speculating it is something else. Depression in many cases isn't logical and it doesn't necessarily have to be triggered by something major - it can often be a combination of little events or even nothing in particular that the person can put their finger on.

Personally, a part of me hopes that some other explanation is found. This is simply for the reason that it would be very sad, and therefore unimaginably heartbreaking for his family, to think that Gary had been having to deal with such feelings, potentially for a lengthy period of time. It is tragic that he felt that this was the only option left for him and I hope that wherever he is now he is much more peaceful.

The coverage of this event has been a real eye opener for me. I don't think I've ever been quite so moved by the passing of someone who I don't know. I was upset when Bobby died but this is a whole new level. I have been on the verge of tears a couple of times watching and listening to people pay their respects to Gary and watching then Bryn Laws video yesterday really got to me. I never had the privilege to meet the man himself, but I think my everlasting memory of the man will be the header he scored in the UEFA cup quarter final at home to PSV right in front of me.

RIP Gary

Just listened to it. Some lovely stories on their - clearly a man held in the highest regard both within and outside of football. Have liked Savage more and more in the last couple of years, not nice to see/hear him so clearly devastated - on a couple of occasions he refers to Gary in the present tense and then has to correct himself. Fletcher goes as well in that last minute and only just manages to get his last sentence out. Really moving stuff - credit to them both for being so defiant in paying tribute to the man despite the immediacy of the event.

Personally would prefer a minutes silence on saturday. For me it is more poignant, however, I accept that both are used to pay respects and will gladly participate in which ever one the club decides to opt for. No reason why we cannot have both, even if it is an 'official' minutes silence, followed by a period of crowd led applause and a rendition of 'one gary speed' etc.

Shocked. RIP Gary

Read what I put  - I don't want him there either, in fact I don't want him in the side at all, but given it seems unlikely that Pards will drop him at the moment - what I asked if is people would put up with it for one game if it meant Santon came in and eventually Raylor got left out.

One scenario - would people mind seeing Raylor at right mid for one game, with Obertan moving to the left and Santon at left back if it meant the start of the phasing out of Raylor from the starting lineup?

Of course the obvious thing to do would bring in Sammy for Jonas on the left, but Raylor would be left very exposed if this was the case.

The ideal scenario for me would be Santon and Sammy in for Jonas and Raylor.

I'm treading carefully as you two are clearly both fired up, but I really wouldn't get worked up about it. I would be very surprised if there aren't more tickets available for a number of reasons:

a) It went straight to 0 points not the usual 25

b) There were 2 available per person rather than the usual 1

c) Bolton struggle to sell their other three stands, there is no way they have started selling tickets in the upper tier of the away end yet. Correct me if I am wrong but I don't think they ever have anyone in there even if the away team only brings a small allocation.

Apologies if I turn out to be wrong, however, i'd be fairly confident that some more will become available - the club is probably just getting them in batches. You know how piss poor that online site has been this season.

True - Shearer could just have meant midfield, in which case he would be right with Tiote out, Guthrie doubtful and Gosling not having started a premier league game for 18 months or so.

Such a shame if Colo really is injured - lets just hope it's nothing serious and he's back next week. We never seem to get the rub of the green injury wise, Tiote not making it for us and Rooney being back for them was always going to happen. Colo being out would just be the icing on the cake.

No doubt fans of other teams would all say the same about themselves, but we do seem to be unlucky. Tiote was supposed to be touch and go for the Stoke game for a while and now, nearly 4 weeks later, he's still not back.

Good to see a sellout. Will be interesting to see if the Man U game sells out or not. It seems like we have an AA category this year as the Man U tickets are about a tenner more expensive than the comparable Chelsea ones were.

Really hoping Tiote is back, however, it doesn't look good. Will settle for him being back for the Chelsea game.

Shame though as I genuinely believe Tiote and Cabaye are as good a midfield pairing as anything Man U can put out.

 

His positioning and body shape were wrong for the second - something you could maybe forgive a player for, baring in mind he is arguably a midfielder and he was on his wrong side i.e. Left Back. It's probably happened a few times this season in less dangerous positions, with lower quality opposition who haven't done the ultimate damage...although that's not something I could say was 100% correct, I reckon it probably is. You're not wrong in your criticism, I just hope people don't think this justifies him being kicked out the team.

 

As for the first, any player that close to their own goal makes themselves as large as possible, and as hard to beat as possible. An opposition player wont be looking at the defender thinking "His arms are out let's get the penalty." They'll be thinking "f***ing hell, where do I put this" or "I'll just smack it." I don't think Raylor did a great lot wrong here, and I'm not saying you are, but a number on here are just waiting for people like Raylor to fail. If the same happened with a more liked player (possibly Saylor) or a younger player (Santon) then not as many would complain, in my opinion.

 

I think our back four have been outstanding, as has Tim Krul this season, and the stats reflect that. I could be wrong but I don't seem to remember Krul having too many saves to make at the weekend, despite Shiteh's domination. That's pays testament to our full team, but more specifically our back 5.

 

Raylor is more than a squad player at the moment, he's a key player for me, as are the other 4 in the back 5. Their performances have alone have laid the foundation for the midfield and strike force to do their thing. That's not to say anyone else has under-performed, just that this has been the bigegst factor in our success to date. The best defence in the league despite the fact we have played Shiteh, Spuds and Arsenal, not to mention tough away trips to Stoke, Wolves and the scum, says it all really.

 

I agree with most of what you say and the sentiment behind it, however, Ryan Taylor is certainly not a key player in this NUFC side, nor will he ever will be. He wasn't even a 'key player' in the Championship.