bealios

You're most likely a WUM but i shall humour you. Could we have some names please ? Are you implying that Keegan is the best manager there is? I would guess not, so I'm assuming that you're implying that he's the best available to us. If so then how do you know that? None of us know who'd be available to us, not even the club at this stage I'd expect, so all that the people who are wanting Keegan back are doing is pre-empting the result of that process, why? The answer can only be that they're letting their sentiment towards Keegan make them unwilling to consider anyone else. That's not a good idea in my view and it's been one of the major factors in NUFC being in it's present state of turmoil. Shepherd allowed sentiment to influence his decisions and ended up buying players we couldn't afford, bringing in both players and managers based upon reputation rather than benefit to the team, trying for instant success rather than building something on solid foundations for the future, and that left the club in a perilous financial state when it didn't work. Ashley let sentiment influence his decisions and bought the club without finding out the true financial position of the club and then make the same mistake as Shepherd by appointing a manager to appease the fans when he wasn't in a position to give that manager what he wanted without considering the consequences of not doing so. Far too often crucial decisions have been made based upon sentiment rather than rational thought at this club and look where it's left us. Now is the time for that to end. So basically what I want is for there to actually be a process to deciding the next manager and I want that process to result in us employing the best manager available to us at that time. At this point no-one can know who that is, we don't even know our options, let alone who amongst those options is going to be the best for the club. So, anyone who is certain about it at this stage is making a bit mistake and I only hope that whoever it is that will end up being responsible for making that decision doesn't think they know the answer already. For the record, if after that process has run its course the decision is made that either Alan Shearer or Kevin Keegan is the best man for the job then fine, I'll be happy with that. I have to say that I doubt that either of them is the best available to us, but as with everyone else that's an opinion made without even knowing who the candidates are, let alone being qualified to decide between them. I also doubt that Keegan's even a candidate as I don't think he'd want to come back here after all this. Basically what I'm saying is that I want a professionally run club from now on and you don't have a professionally run club if you make decisions as important as who the manager should be by saying: "This bloke's the only man for the job" without even considering who's available. Although I agree with much of this, I think that if you look at the last 20 years or so, the only manager that NUFC have appointed who was the sensible considered choice and which wasn't based upon local bias or hero worship was probably Kenny Dalglish. It doesn't always work out. Our most successful managers in the modern era have been emotional appointments - Keegan and Robson. Although I accept Robson was a world class manager at the time, I think Shepherds decision to go for him was less for that and more for the local connection.

If Moat gets the club it will be also acquired almost entirely with debt to be honest - certainly more than the £70m or so that we had before Ashley got involved.

True, although "dealt with" doesn't necessarily mean cleared. There's a common misconception that debt is a bad thing - its not - gearing/borrowing is how businesses become successful. Certainly hasn't done Man Utd any harm. Trick is to get good terms so that the interest payments are comfortably met, and run the business properly so that you are not incurring further borrowing to meet the interest payments i.e. £40m overdraft facilities.

It's true that he invested his own cash, and let's face it not many other people including Kevin Keegan have done that, but it's the deceit I can't stomach. If he was just up front and stuck to the line that the club was strapped for cash I could support that, but the bullshit and lies spun by his team have been unforgiveable. If it was just incompetence you could at least feel some sympathy. You're right of course, but football is a dirty corrupt game - anything with that amount of money in it attracts the worst types of parasites. For all we know every club may need to keep the top agents sweet - it wasn't long ago that we lost out on Luca Modric even though he was perfectly happy to come to NUFC - I know in that case it was the selling club's owner who favoured the move to Tottenham, but you can see how in the real world these sort of deals might be the sort of things that need to be done all of the time - there must be a ton of reserves at a number of clubs in the Premier League where the reason for signing the isn't completely apparent. But if they ultimately end up with you getting a top player over another club, then maybe it is worth it. In the past NUFC used to pip clubs like Everton and Tottenham to most players, but we did it by paying £20K a week more, which over a 5 year contract is a hell of a lot more than £1m. Not defending the deal that was done, the important thing is that the final decision on these matters is made by the manager.

I know this sounds a bit daft now, but I think there is a reasonable chance that in 5 years time people will look back at the Ashley era and not have as much hatred for the man that they do now. When you take the emotion away from it, you are essentially dealing with a bloke who has invested more of his own cash in NUFC than any other person in the history of the club. He was also responsible for the appointment of Kevin Keegan and Alan Shearer. And he liked a few beers in the away end. If someone told us 5 years ago that we would end up with such an owner, but he would become perhaps the most criticised owner in the clubs history, we would have thought them a bit mental. I don't have any ill feelings towards Ashley, I just think its a shame that he couldn't get some proper advice and make it work. I saw him on Wednesday night and he just looked like a broken man, but couldn't help admiring the fact that he still comes to the games, he could quite easily think fuck it and not bother at all.

Would that be the kind of thing Keegan himself should attend? If he's there you should kick kiss his head in. Edited for fairness. Ever willing to please, I will do both.

Sky News must think it is settled today as there are vans and equipment camped outside my office (not too far from the arbitration)

I'm not worrying too much about this game at all. I'm pretty certain that given our generally weak squad, going out last night in 90 mins was the best result possible for our promotion chances - only Guthrie's red card spoiled it. It also can't help the kids' motivation if the manager makes it clear to the press before the game that we really don't want to be in this cup this year.

it won't come out of ashleys pocket you can count on that Yes it will, if its over a certain amount that has already been factored into the price. do you not think the price/terms may change depending on the outcome ? When the club went on the market none of the bidders were given full info about the Keegan claim i.e. no contracts, legal documents etc. - they were given a summary prepared by NUFC's own lawyers, less than a page. They put a likely value on the claim. If it comes in over and above that it potentially has an impact on price - although there are other ways it can be factored in.

it won't come out of ashleys pocket you can count on that Yes it will, if its over a certain amount that has already been factored into the price.

I wouldn't worry too much about affording it, it will be factored into the sale price for the club if it is more than expected - effectively it comes out of Ashley's pocket in the long run.

Gutted, just walked back in the door from holiday and the Sky + recording didn't work. Sounds like we didn't play brilliantly, but still took 3 points from one of the supposedly top teams in this league. Anyone know if the highlights are on at any point later?

Good post. A token protest will suffice, such as some boos (I'm sure boo boo and his hanger-on mates are experts at this) when he takes his seats is good enough, after that it's time to support the team properly. There needs to be an atmosphere to lift the players, not one to send them into some kind of shell and had the initiative to Reading. if there is to be any chanting against him i just hope hope its after the final whistle after support has been given to the team. however should we go a goal down i doubt many would be able to contain themselves (it's been a sign of the last few years that the crowd trying to get the team going after conceding has all but disappeared). in a perverse way i'd like to hear the crowd in a raucous "theres only one mike ashley" type thing and get him with humour as even he'd realise we were taking the piss. That would be hilarious. Doubt it would happen though, and it would probably start a riot in the stands.

Exactly, the criteria seems to be 1. Absolutely desperate for employment. 2. Out of football for a number of years. 3. Won't ask for any cash and will rely on loan signings. 4. Says nice things about the chairman/owner on request. O'Leary may not be as bad as some of the other managers who are on Ashley's list....

Despite apparently being a bit of a cunt, if he is interested in the job he is the most qualified/experienced manager we can get at the moment. I don't care if our manager is a knob, if we're winning games. Most people on here thought Sir Alex was a knob until recently, knobness or cuntness should not be used to assess potential managers. Ideally I'd like to give Shearer a proper stab at the job, but if it has to be O'Leary then I'll still get behind him - I shudder at the thought of who else Ashley could bring out of football's Room 101 of managers. Dave Bassett? John Gregory? Dr Josef Venglos? Bryan Robson? Graeme Sou... sorry, can't bring myself to say it. Imagine how sorry we would feel if O'Leary turns down the job due to initial fan reaction, and Ashley pays us back by giving Souness the job!

Howaythelad, your signature is great - it has just hammered home how crap the Souness era was and how damaging that shitty period was

Not sure if this has been posted before, but just had this fowarded to me from YouTube. Sat and watched it at work and funnily enough made me actually feel better about the new season. Even with all of the shit we had to go through, we were still only 1 point away from safety. Had a lot of bad luck towards the end. Even started getting a bit emotional at the bit were Sir Bobby is watching on. Just wish this current state of affairs could be sorted out so we can get back to supporting the team, get rid of all of the negative crap, keep out of the press for a bit and get ourselves promoted. Although probably not a popular view, I would even prefer Ashley to come out and say he was keeping the club and would modestly fund it in the short term, appoint Shearer and leave him to it. <Snip>

Another important point: - one of the main reasons for entering administration is that it gives a company a bit of breathing space, since during the administration none of your creditors can generally take any legal action against you, landlords can't kick you out etc. Given that Ashley is the main and perhaps only major creditor, then this is just going to make repayment of this loan even harder, and outside of his control.

Putting a club into administration involves appointing an independent third party insolvency practitioner who's role it so maximise return to creditors. Even if that is only Ashley, it would involve selling the club as a going concern i.e. a functioning football club. This would make more money than just selling our stadium and the players, which are really the only assets, by themselves, particularly since the terms of the stadium lease will restrict it to use for the purposes of Newcastle United Football Club - its worthless unless the whole club is sold. From a purely financial point of view, Ashley as the only creditor would lose out by a massive amount if he took the administration route rather than just selling to any party at a cut price. The only real difference to what he is doing now is that rather than being fully in control of what is being sold, an independant accountant is in control of what is being sold, rather than Ashley. Administration tends to be used when you want to get a functioning business out of the other side, with the creditors taking a certain (usually very low) percentage of the loans that they are owed. You usually lose what you have put in, in terms of shares. So if they put the club in administration, an accountant would be looking to sell the clubs assets to a new vehicle as a going concern (like Leeds), and the creditors (Ashley) would get a low % of his £100m "loan". He would get nothing for the share investment, after all of the fees were taken into account. Put it this way, if Ashley said "I'll sell the club for £60m and only expect £20m of the loan back if you get promoted within the next 3 years", then he would still be a lot better off than administration. That's why I think its unlikely, since anyone would snap his hands off for that deal, particularly what we have been told about the offers at around £100m, however they were structured. So its fairly unlikely that he would opt for administration where there is a chance of getting even a part of the price he paid for the shares. I suspect the difficulty we are having at the moment is that any bidders are putting in place bids which are very low AND involve writing off the whole loan. When Leeds was sold, there were a load of third party creditors, and the rationale for going into administration meant they didn't have to be paid in full.

I'm in the minority hoping that Barton will stay. We haven't seen him have a long run in the team, and when he has had a half decent run we have looked a better team. On the pitch, he doesn't give away half the fouls players like Smith and Nolan do, or at least it seems that way. I can't help but feel that Shearer handled the Liverpool sending off badly, and acted without thinking properly. When you look at it, Barton's tackle was no worse than Nolans against Everton, or Guthrie's against Hull. He needs to learn to handle players differently - all top managers know that. I'm not saying talent wise that Barton is anywhere near, but do you think Ferguson dressed Cantona down in front of his team mates after the Palace kung fu kick? We will never know what went on exactly, but I'm sure there was a way to punish Barton without finishing his career at Newcastle there on in. Even if Shearer had made his mind up that he didn't want him, effectively ending his career with NUFC so publically simply reduces the transfer fee you might achieve from him. If you at least pretend you want to keep him, you might get a better deal from the likes of Birmingham.

Potentially yes I think, it will be a loss on the share purchase and share sale

ALL of this - plus the nepotism, constant dealings with the likes of McKay etc AND the way he started the club's downfall by failing to either back SBR or bring in a new manager in the summer of 2003(because he didn't want money spent at that time) - is the reason that, after almost half a century, I will be finished with Newcastle United if it falls under his influence again. Whatever happened in past years, we always had hope that something better may be around the corner, but there is no way I would feel like that with him in charge - if NUFC has to depend on FS taking over to survive, then the club isn't worth a light in my view. Will never enter SJP again if this happens - the club will be a total laughing stock and deservedly-so. I've got to give respect to someone who has followed NUFC for 50 years, but isn't this an overreaction? I remember spending my early years supporting NUFC in the 80's (after Keegan had left) and early 90's thinking that we were nothing more than a club who would forever be in the lower reach of Division 1 or in Division 2. There were times under Ardiles when I thought I would never see NUFC competing with the top clubs again. I never felt like that under FS. Completely the opposite - even as the buffoon stumbled from one chaotic gaff to another, I always thought that we were in a blip, and we were one appointment away from challenging again. I had seen it with the Daglish/Gullit blip, followed by great times under Robson. Souness/Roeder/Allardyce was supposed to be just another blip. My view of FS is that he gambled irresponsibly with the club's finances trying to put as back where we were in the Robson days. The nepotism, use of McKay and other and public gaffs, and taking a healthy profit from the club would have been overlooked by most if he had managed to get it right with one of his appointments post Robson. But he didn't, and paid the price by being shafted by the Halls and being forced out. I'm not saying I'm overjoyed that he might be back. However what is more likely: 1. That he is sitting on a golf course in Spain with £50m in the bank and decides that in his 60's he would quite like to go and try and go through the abuse and pressure of going back to NUFC where he knows that he is generally hated, just to try and make a few extra £m. 2. His ego is such that he wanted to be the person remembered for bringing some silverware to NUFC, and sees this as a chance he thought he had missed? I'm going for 2. And whatever his faults, I would be veryhappy if he achieves his goal.

To be fair, apart from his second stint here he has left every club he has managed firmly established in a league one division higher than when he joined them. Southampton would kill for that. Fuck me, I know we would!

What a load of crap! If he transferred the land assets and then put the football club in liquidation then the liquidators would challenge all of those land asset transfers as undervalued transactions, and they could be clawed back. There would be no point. The land assets would need to be be purchased for market value, so that the creditors of the remaining football club were not fucked over. That's the law I'm afraid. Also, I'm not sure that the bit about not "owning" the land is correct. I believe they have a long lease from the Council of the land and everything on it. Having a long lease is a form of ownership - if you own your own flat you will most likely have it on a long lease. So they do "own" the land, but only in the same way that you might own a flat i.e. the freeholders will own it again in 100 years. Although I haven't seen the lease, I expect that the freeholders have restrictions in it which prevent the use for anything other than a football club or ancillary purposes.

Agree with the sentiment, but in actual fact I seem to remember Bracewell was injured for much of the first part of the season, and Sellars and Lee came in about halfway through. We put together that record breaking start without any of them (or Andy Cole). I use this point when anyone criticises Keegan as a manager as requiring money. In that promotion season, the only players he added to the first team to get the 11 league game unbeaten run were Venison and Beresford. This is probably a lesson in itself - you can't underestimate the value of proper full back to the rest of the team. Playing players out of position there just leads to disaster....