Jayson

Just as Hughton was clearly a w*** manager whos opinion is void as his time as caretaker manager we did awfully. That turned out to be accurate.

Hardly spot on, hes a wanker being a wanker. Wont bother getting into a shearer as manager debate

Good post Johnny. Our best hope is that Ashley does actually have some ambition for our club & simply couldnt turn down such a huge offer. Not sure thats to likely, but its our best hope if we're to get anywhere atall.

Ofcourse it was important to him, big offer was on the table and he got swayed by it. Potentially the same offer wouldnt be on the table in the summer at newc or elsewhere, maybe his form wouldnt have held up as well. His injury etc This was a good chance for him. I just think he was worth it & that the club should have seen that. Liverpool did.

As said good interview from him. Seems quite upfront about things, actually makes you want to trust him.

Considering the investment in training him up from a kid? Considering sticking by him when he got into trouble? Considering he got the No.9 shirt? Considering he is injured? Considering we arent in the Champs league and only just got promited? Yes, that is greedy To a point yeah, hes no Angel & definately used the situation for his own benefit. Might have been worth meeting him half way still though.

So was Carroll bigger than club then? And if they had given in to Carroll it is tantamount to giving every player in the squad an invitation to rush in and demand to renegotiate their contract. Just for the young players that establish themselves as key players for the team and a top player in the division. Could Ashly have done everything to keep Carrol? Yes. He could have paid him 200k a week, purchased him 15 houses in the bahamas, and a years supply of strippers, but that isnt the point is it? Its a management nightmare if you give in. Carrol isnt that special that he can demand an increase after a few months. Holy crap that is so presumptous. He had ample time to negotiate a 5 year contract. It's all about priorities, most Newcastle fans would say Carroll was worth more than 30,000 a week (in a footballing context, yes I know it is astronomical for most people) and most football fans in general would probably think that was quite a low basic wage for an England international with bags of potential. I'm sure Carroll would rather play for Newcastle than Liverpool and if Liverpool were offering 80,000 would he have accepted 60,000-70,000 at NUFC? Yes he was happy to sign a contract a few months ago but things change. Looks like he was using other club's interest to leverage a new deal. Would Ben Arfa, Nolan and Barton be knocking on Fat Ash's door demanding to upgrade their own deals? Possibly, we then need to work out who is worth the money and who is not. Those who we deem not worth the added investment can look elsewhere if a club is willing to pay them. I'll say one thing though, I know Carroll was worth the investment to this club but Fat Ash was not interested and we have now lost a real gem. Exactly, feel the same.

Tottenham just recently gave Bale a pay increase only 6 months after agreeing a 4 year contract, due to his performances in the champions league. This is without any bids even coming in for him or offers being put on the table. Yet for Carroll to think we might want to negotiate his contract, following him scoring or assisting in 10 of the 11 games he played since signing it & two bids upwards of 25m coming in + a huge pay increase etc means hes greedy/disloyal etc?

Interesting that is. According to a few on here thats completely ridiculous

Just listening to Pardew on SSN He does specifically say Ashley promised all of it will be reinvested back into the squad not club. He then says again itll go back into the team.

We dont need to be man city to negotiate with this specific player. Id hope that if we had enough players being massively valued by other clubs that were worth negotiating with that our club would be doing pretty well by that point anyway. Otherwise, it would ofcourse make sense not to negotiate with them & take the money as we did with Carroll

You havent answered my last post to you mate. You should find it quite easy, dunno why you're still having a go otherwise There's only so many ways I can say that re-negotiating a contract a few months into his current contract is bad business. No matter how much his 'valuation' has sky rocketed. Well you havent actually explained how itd be bad business in this situation. And as i said before Tottenham did this with Bale just recently.

You havent answered my last post to you mate. You should find it quite easy, dunno why you're still having a go otherwise

I already answered to that, obviously you make the decision based on what you view the players potential to be. If you expect him to keep improving ofcourse you negotiate his contract. If Carroll wasnt a young lad who had improved ridiculously in the last few months then i wouldnt necessarily be arguing that we should have listened to him atall.

If they wanted to build a team to win things & keep their best players & had the means to do so then they should react to what other clubs are willing to offer the lad if they want to keep him ofcourse. Otherwise they would lose him, as realistically they likely will at some point. Its very simple, if you dont negotiate you'll lose your best players as the player will nearly always go for the money if its being offered & they are being much more highly valued elsewhere. It's not so easy to anticipate a bid of 36 million, who was expecting that? For Carroll to come in on the last day of the transfer window and ask for a dramatic wage increase puts a heap of pressure on the club because going by your theory, they would have to agree right there and then to increase his wages by 40-50k or whatever it is, or ultimately lose him to the highest bidder. Spurs had just bid 25m also. Someone said Carroll signed his contract just 7 games into the season. If thats true he then went on to either score or assist in 10 of the following 11 games. No one was expecting that & obviously that changed everyones view of his potential. Ofcourse we should have negotiated based off of that, for the same reason clubs started offering stupid amounts of money for him based off of that. I dont see how that doesnt make complete sense

If they wanted to build a team to win things & keep their best players & had the means to do so then they should react to what other clubs are willing to offer the lad if they want to keep him ofcourse. Otherwise they would lose him, as realistically they likely will at some point. Its very simple, if you dont negotiate you'll lose your best players as the player will nearly always go for the money if its being offered & they are being much more highly valued elsewhere. How much would you be willing to give Carroll? However much Liverpool offered. Like, if Man Utd came in and offered him £200k a week to move, we should give him £210k, yeah? Makes sense, it's his market worth, init. Think you're winding yourself up mate by making assumptions about my argument that you've jumped into half way. Ive said we should have negotiated Carrolls contract, i doubt we needed to match what pool were offering to keep him here. It just needed to be closer to matching his current valuation in the market. Even if thats only 15m or 20m, 30k a week as a wage does not match that value. How do you disagree?

If they wanted to build a team to win things & keep their best players & had the means to do so then they should react to what other clubs are willing to offer the lad if they want to keep him ofcourse. Otherwise they would lose him, as realistically they likely will at some point. Its very simple, if you dont negotiate you'll lose your best players as the player will nearly always go for the money if its being offered & they are being much more highly valued elsewhere.

This. Jayson's whole argument is based on 'well, Liverpool were stupid enough to pay that much'. So that means we should keep up? I'm glad you don't run our club, as you'd be a step above Shepherd in throwing money at problems and people. Two seperate clubs offer near 30 mill for the same lad. The best managers in the league have praised him & his potential. My argument is that we should have negotiated his wage. That if that meant other players would then come knocking if their price went up ridiculously, that we would then have to look at that situation seperately and decide whether they were worth it. If they were, id expect us to negotiate their wage also

Because ? He wasnt being valued at 35m two months ago Are you kidding me? Say Barton signed a new contract a month ago aproximately, and a club like Man City came in and bid $20 million for him, that would justify him coming knocking for a new and improved contract. It doesnt mean s*** if they are suddenly valued higher. You just signed a new contract, now honour the thing. No. Because Carroll is an 'exceptional' case. There'd be no precedent set by giving in to Carroll's demands or anything, like. The precedent set would be that we alter a players wages based on his valuation. If his valuation rockets ridiculously, then we alter his wages to match that of a player of that worth as we want to keep him. It makes complete sense. As was pointed out, Tottenham did this with Bale just recently after his performances in the champs league. what about when the valuation drops ? or should we always pay players according to their maximum market valuation ? Well thats where you could debate the decision made & whether you should or shouldnt give him the pay increase. Some would be worth it & maybe others wouldnt. Be down to what you thought of their potential to keep it up or improve wouldnt it? I think everyone reckons Carroll has a bright future

Because ? He wasnt being valued at 35m two months ago Are you kidding me? Say Barton signed a new contract a month ago aproximately, and a club like Man City came in and bid $20 million for him, that would justify him coming knocking for a new and improved contract. It doesnt mean s*** if they are suddenly valued higher. You just signed a new contract, now honour the thing. No. Because Carroll is an 'exceptional' case. There'd be no precedent set by giving in to Carroll's demands or anything, like. The precedent set would be that we alter a players wages based on his valuation. If his valuation rockets ridiculously, then we alter his wages to match that of a player of that worth as we want to keep him. It makes complete sense. As was pointed out, Tottenham did this with Bale just recently after his performances in the champs league.

Depends how much extra they were willing to offer him. Man city are slightly different anyway as you have to accept you cant really compete with their ludicrous valuation of what anythings worth. But if Barton were playing well enough to be valued at 20 million by several clubs. Then you'd expect his wage to come close to matching a player of that standard & if it didnt itd be quite normal for him to try and manipulate the situation to alter it yes.

Heck, Yes they would. See Spurs/Berbatov! Harry/Spurs are the ultimate wheeler/dealer buy low/sell high club that turn their assets over to the betterment of the club. If they were offered 35m at the same point in the window. Meaning they couldnt have had any time to replace him. Maybe they would, i think its debatable again. Either way theyre actually in a much better position with the type of names they have in their squad to be able to do that & be able to replace him with more quality.

Nothing atall and he'd be in a reasonable position to do that? Contracts mean very little now, we've all known this for ages. A players worth is determined by what you have to do to keep hold of them & whether you're willing to do it. If the likes of Chelsea & Man utd are offering him ridiculous terms, then why would it be silly for us to do the same? When he signed his contract means very little.

Because ? He wasnt being valued at 35m two months ago Well accroding to Carroll himself he was negotiating a contract before the 30 million bid even came in so your point is moot. After spurs had just offered 25m ? I dont fully believe he was having talks about a contract previous to that either, i think hes just wording it cleverly.

Because ? He wasnt being valued at 35m two months ago tiote will now be valued at more than 3.5mill, jose at more than 6mill....should they bang on the door for a new contract after any good run of form ? No. If another club comes in offering to triple their pay & several other clubs value them at about 4 or 5 times what they were previously worth then yeah theyre in a pretty strong position to be claiming their level of worth to our club should be negotiated