Spudil

Not this s*** again man. Obviously if anyone looks at the league table they say "well toon fans must be delighted". However our fans have actually watched all our matches this season. Huh? Reread. Im asking our fans who should be happier, not what they think. The respective ability of the sides above us to keep possession & dominate games has been highlighted in this thread & used as evidence we underperform under Pardew. Yet many would agree those 2 sides have underperformed in terms of picking up points for the quality of their squad, in comparison to how we have done. So should people be more dissapointed with our attacking play than satisfied with our strengths in other areas? Many seem to be. Happier in terms of what exactly? All things considered I'd say Liverpool fans should be happiest. They won a cup and are in with a shout for another one. Additionally they have one of the tightest defenses in the league, dominated a lot of games this season, created alot of chances and could reasonably argue that with a good poacher (like Cisse i suppose) they'd have collected a lot more points. Is that not sort of Jayson's point though? They spent £70m on dross. If they'd spent that correctly (nothing stopped them signing Ba & Cisse rather than Carroll for example) they really should be at least on par with Spurs & Arsenal. Aye you cant really make a manager free from blame for the form of his strikers when he specifically signs them & then decides how they are coached. I never have.

Not this s*** again man. Obviously if anyone looks at the league table they say "well toon fans must be delighted". However our fans have actually watched all our matches this season. Huh? Reread. Im asking our fans who should be happier, not what they think. The respective ability of the sides above us to keep possession & dominate games has been highlighted in this thread & used as evidence we underperform under Pardew. Yet many would agree those 2 sides have underperformed in terms of picking up points for the quality of their squad, in comparison to how we have done. So should people be more dissapointed with our attacking play than satisfied with our strengths in other areas? Many seem to be. Happier in terms of what exactly? All things considered I'd say Liverpool fans should be happiest. They won a cup and are in with a shout for another one. Additionally they have one of the tightest defenses in the league, dominated a lot of games this season, created alot of chances and could reasonably argue that with a good poacher (like Cisse i suppose) they'd have collected a lot more points. Is that not sort of Jayson's point though? They spent £70m on dross. If they'd spent that correctly (nothing stopped them signing Ba & Cisse rather than Carroll for example) they really should be at least on par with Spurs & Arsenal. He asked who should be happier, I'm unaware of his point until he reveals it to me. Also, I'm aware of what you pointed out and it was considered. I did say all things considered after all.

Not this s*** again man. Obviously if anyone looks at the league table they say "well toon fans must be delighted". However our fans have actually watched all our matches this season. Huh? Reread. Im asking our fans who should be happier, not what they think. The respective ability of the sides above us to keep possession & dominate games has been highlighted in this thread & used as evidence we underperform under Pardew. Yet many would agree those 2 sides have underperformed in terms of picking up points for the quality of their squad, in comparison to how we have done. So should people be more dissapointed with our attacking play than satisfied with our strengths in other areas? Many seem to be. Happier in terms of what exactly? All things considered I'd say Liverpool fans should be happiest. They won a cup and are in with a shout for another one. Additionally they have one of the tightest defenses in the league, dominated a lot of games this season, created alot of chances and could reasonably argue that with a good poacher (like Cisse i suppose) they'd have collected a lot more points.

I think most of their fans would disagree. Fair enough they won the cup, but considering their summer spending, their league campaign has been hugely disappointing. At home in particular. Yes but you said they've 'underperformed considering the squad they've got' as if it is packed full of fantastic players. I'd say they've got the 6th best squad in the league. Agreed. As an aside;I think we have the 7th best squad in the league.

Not this shit again man. Obviously if anyone looks at the league table they say "well toon fans must be delighted". However our fans have actually watched all our matches this season.

In terms of what?

Yeah but we're ONLY sixth - in a season when many expected us to struggle and many more tipped us for relegation. Surely if we had a manager who knew what he was doing we'd be in the top three and probably unbeaten. Personally I'd rather be in the bottom three and playing the beautiful football inspired by the purist Martinez at Wigan. You can only really compare Martinez if he's got a similar squad to work with. It's not like at Wigan he's got Collocinis, Tiotes, Ba's Cabayes or Cisses at his disposal. Similarly, what could Pardew do with Kompany, Richards, Toure & Aguero at his disposal. Tevez too

Yep, hate this.

I don't mean to come across as a cunt but when you say "by the people who matter" is sounds like a snide remark against me and people with similar views about Pardew.

They sacked Hughton for a very similar run of results to Pardews recent form, citing reasons other than league position and results. Clearly they don't focus 100% on results and league position. ( I have to pop out now, so im gonna point out that the qualifier 'basically' does not change any of what I have said, before Ian pipes in with that instead of answering the question)

I agree. I think (and i know you're not firmly in the 'Pardew camp' here) that seems to me like Pardew hasn't got a really in depth understanding of what was bringing the results so he was afraid to try something different. As an alternative, remember Manu doing well but still getting Cronaldo on the pitch to give him minutes even when he was, in those days, a complete show pony. Didn't stop Fergie subbing him on though to get him used to it all and start developing. True enough, I don't know how in depth Pardew's understanding of why we were winning was. But I'm guessing he understood that we weren't conceding many goals and Ba was in s***-hot form up front. That's a formula to win a lot of games in this league. For a manager who is basically judged 100% on results and league position (by the people who matter) it must be hard to know exactly when to change a winning formula like that. Who are these people? His fellow managers seem to think Brendan Rogers is doing a better job. Clearly they don't judge solely on results and league position. Clearly the fans don't judge him 100% on results and league position. So who are these people? I'm genuinely interested to hear.

I have. I disagree. "pardew was forced into playing hba because his team selection and tactics were so appallingly f***ing bad in the first half, people should remember that, he threw him on to try and rescue him the week before as well" So you're saying that this is not the case, Ben Arfa was not thrown on as a last resort/ pushing the panic button. But actually Pardew just recognised that Ben Arfa was now closer to 100% and decided to use him as was always his plan. You have to be kidding me man

How have you just ignored the post above you? do you disagree? Was this Pardews plan all along? Everybody is aware that he suffered a double leg fracture and of the amount of time it takes to return 100% physically and mentally. Christ. Fact is that regardless of whatever 'percentage' Ben Arfa has been at in the past months he was better than his competition and needed games in order to rise toward 100%.

Certainly not. It was obvious months ago that if Hatem ever got playing at all then the likes of you would be coming out with stuff like this. If it really needs explaining to you then there is no point. Pointless telling someone something they won't understand/refuse to acknowledge. Christ almighty. I don't who the likes of me are, but anyway. What I'm saying is that there's a possibility that the relationship between Pardew and HBA is pretty good, and he's been explaining and coaxing him through the time he hasn't been playing. I'm not saying that he wouldn't have done well if he had played more, if you look at my posts I've been clamouring for him to start more all season. But he hasn't spit the dummy out or been frozen out permanently, so some decent management might have gone on behind the scenes. Like madras says there are different ways to look at how he has been eased in. But there's no way the answer to whether he has been managed well can be "certainly not", because you haven't got a clue what has gone on. Sorry I went a bit overboard because I knew this would happen Anyway, IMO Ben Arfa is the one who gets the credit, not Pardew. Pardew will get his credit when he finds Benny a role in the team that sees him realise some of his incredible potential. Not for attempting to make him into a right sided Jonas.

Certainly not. It was obvious months ago that if Hatem ever got playing at all then the likes of you would be coming out with stuff like this. If it really needs explaining to you then there is no point. Pointless telling someone something they won't understand/refuse to acknowledge.

No chance that's working? You'll have to explain why such a common system would not work. Ba has played that role plenty of times. Stick in Taylor at CB there, Marvin Martin at AM and you're just a good LB away. It's totally lopsided, you've moved our most potent striker to a position that isn't his best. IMO Ba is nothing but a CF. f*** playing him as an inverted wide man. I do agree in principle. But I am a bit worried about the potential Ba - Cisee partnership and how it could work. Against poor sides just throwing them together should work often enough. However, against sides looking to control the game from the middle, and especially against sides with three in there i think we'll struggle going 4-4-2 with that partnership.

I see what you're saying all right. However, Barcelona (I hate to use Barca, but the example will do for now) play that system with Abidal at LB, he's hardly a flying fullback. It could work.

No chance that's working? You'll have to explain why such a common system would not work. Ba has played that role plenty of times. Stick in Taylor at CB there, Marvin Martin at AM and you're just a good LB away. I'm not in direct disagreement with you btw, but it is something I'd like to see us try at some stage.

I have the 4-4 with Arsenal from last season on my hard disk and i've watched it quite a few times (it's brilliant to watch if you're, erm, relaxing with some, um, plant based recreation). The thing that always strikes me is that he never seemed to sprint. We would get the ball back near our box or in the midfield and he'd just kind of set off at a jog like an ocean liner starting it's voyage knowing a plane would be arriving at the same time. The ball gets knocked around a bit and by the time it's played up into the danger area his stately jog has taken him right where he needs to be every time. He never busts a gut, he just jogs to where the ball will be in 45 - 90 seconds time, it's uncanny. The difference now is that Cabaye is not moving forward like that, he tends to stay in position when the ball is moving forward so when it breaks or is knocked down he's not there.

I'm with you on this one Johnny, I must admit I couldn't really understand the wankfest over him when I watched him earlier this season, even when we were winning, but there's some things in his game which make you realise he'd be a very effective player in the right set up. He does have a lot of vision, he can hit a good pass and he gets stuck in. He's not a bad player but there's no way he can look good when we are whacking the ball long to Ba as our primary tactic to get the ball forward. I agree with all of that

What are you talking about man? That is just based on what you think. Jayson has probably explained how this has nothing to do with our manager 20 pages ago.

Yep. Now for a Pardew specific example; He played Tevez left wing in a 4-4-2 for about 13 games. He did not play well.

The people with real and obvious bias are people like you with their heads stuck in the sand. You ignore legitimate criticisms and just pipe in with s**** waffle and no substance. There has been plenty of reasoning from posters in is this thread. You however, offer none to the contrary.

If Pardew was managing that lot they'd be fighting one right now <_< That's for sure ( I agree with you btw, that sounded sarcastic)