Toonpack

How is being part of what we achieved in the 90s going to make you have lowered expectations now? If you can remember those days - which I can, vividly - you just know we are a shadow of the club we were now, and we should be expecting far better, which we certainly would under a more ambitious and committed owner. I can remember the 90s very well and yes 93-98 was a purple patch for us but now we are just mediocre....other clubs have had purple patches recently far better than ours....Leeds, Forest even Ipswich these clubs all won major honours. The 90s as you describe we won f*** all yes the football was amazing and exciting to watch but ultimately we won nothing. It doesn't give us the divine right because we are NUFC to think we are any more deserving than their fans I've been watching us for 36 years merlin to answer your question previously so yes I've seen s**** Don't expect me to give you a medal for long service, because I can beat that by almost 20 years. I have seen us win the Fairs Cup AND be relegated, each time due to lousy directors/management. I have seen our fans out-sing the much-lauded Kop after a Wembley thrashing and I KNOW that this club is better and bigger than you and others on here are prepared to accept, because you have low expectations. I, and many others on this board do NOT share your opinion - lets leave it at that because you and I will never agree. It’s not about “expectations” it’s about being realistic. The game’s a phony, without a Sheik or an Oligarch we cannot compete and that is an absolute fact, and by compete I mean challenge for the real honour which is being in the mix for winning the league (as we did in the 90’s). The 90’s were great but we couldn’t maintain it, we dropped away just as the money exploded in football and whilst we were “big and ambitious” we were overspending to do it, that level of spend was unsustainable as we fell from the top table. Look at Spurs, all the years we were having our “golden period” they were a lot like us now (if you listened to their fans back then) bumbling along showing “lack of ambition” but with a healthy bottom line, they’ve ascended as we’ve descended but it’s taken years and years of them making profits and player trading. Our one hope (because we are bigger than most) is FFP, on a level field, we have a much bigger clout than an awful lot of teams. But it’s going to take time. We came from nowhere ridiculously fast under KK first time, because the game was completely different, the differential between the rich clubs and the rest was minuscule compared to today. In today’s game catching that lightning in a bottle again is all but impossible. We came close season before last under this shit regime and shit manager. On to the owner, I (and I guess many who are tarred with the brush) don’t support him, but I can understand much of what he does (some things like appointing JFK are beyond comprehension). Yeah he could throw in twenty mill a year to show “ambition”, (I’d love him to) but ambition to do what?? Finish 5th/6th/7th whoopee fucking doo eh?, There’s no guarantee of anything and it is his own money after all. But we should try!! I hear the cry, really, why should he ?? The club needs to stand on its own feet, he’s not going to put any more of his own cash in, that’s patently obvious, he could well be intent on recovering his current exposure, if he does maybe we’ll be sellable. Bottom line, any improvement is going to take a long time, there is no quick fix. That in my opinion is realism, not lowering of expectations. I support Newcastle United, I am fatalistic rather than expectant. After decades of supporting this club I know that even when we are good (the 90’s) we couldn’t win anything and I am resigned to that being the rule rather than the exception. My one hope, ambition even (likely forlorn) is that FFP works because then we have a chance, without it, short of a Sheik or Oligarch coming along (or a miracle) what’s the point, other than enjoying the team winning some games, making an impression on the “big picture” is some time down the road either way.

Salaries should bump the figure up not down, considering our wage bill is quite a bit less than it was when Ashley took over. I think you'll find its not

Is it? It has been WAAAAAAY worse than this (I'm 55 btw) This IS typical Newcastle United, you'll come to understand that over time, apart from the tenure of KK first time, and SBR to a point, it's always been like this, or worse. Hey, comparatively, these are good times. (could be better, oh aye, but could also be MUCH worse). Great, everything just feels SO much better now. Well I am certainly more chilled about it all than most

Is it? It has been WAAAAAAY worse than this (I'm 55 btw) This IS typical Newcastle United, you'll come to understand that over time, apart from the tenure of KK first time, and SBR to a point, it's always been like this, or worse. Hey, comparatively, these are good times. (could be better, oh aye, but could also be MUCH worse).

Is it? It has been WAAAAAAY worse than this (I'm 55 btw) This IS typical Newcastle United, you'll come to understand that over time, apart from the tenure of KK first time, and SBR to a point, it's always been like this, or worse.

Newcastle United This is nowt new and still way better than some previous times (by a long stretch)

His fault the second goal, aye he's great !!

If Mbiwa hadn't been ambling back from fuck knows what when the ball as given away, Aguero was offside when the ball was played, no way Taylors fault

As was Simpson, Debuchy has a much higher ceiling though.

That makes no sense. If they both were happy with what we're offering he'd be here now. honestly think Gomis is holding out for more/OM This. On the "more" front, he could be quibbling with Lyon over his "loyalty" bonus players always seem to get when they leave anywhere. So we could, in reality, have a problem between him and Lyon.

How mighty considerate of us. I hate to say this but i think we've got this one right, nearly 28, last year of his contract, Lyon want rid. There's no way we should pay more than we are offering. But i do understand we need a striker badly we have to accept paying more than we think we should, whether this player is worth doing that for is another matter. I just hope we have identified other options. Could handle bringing in players with potential around 21/22 for 4/5 million really. I just hope they don't decide to go with what we have, would be massive mistake I reckon. That's the problem, i dont we ever have other targets. We really are a "all our eggs in one basket" club. That's why i said sometimes we should pay more. In this case i dont because of his contract and situation with Lyon. I just think our lists of mulitple players for a certain position never exist. Despite what Pardew says. when we pulled out of the douglas deal (apparently) was there not something along the lines of kinnear saying that they'll sign the player that's right regardless of whether there are cheaper alternatives? sure i remember something like that joe talking s**** again for a change then Tbf this one is a bit different, were just tight all round. We have our valuation and we stick to it, even if it means cutting our nose off, to spite our own face. More like we have our budget and we stick to it IMO. It's a known fact that Ashley doesn't want to/won't put any more of his own money in, the club must live within it's means, that will drive the available £££'s for players in fee's and wages and that will drive the size of offers to buy players. Moaningabout an "extra million" here and there isn't the reality. IF the club can afford the extra million, it'll pay it, if that extra million means Ashley has to put his hand in his pocket, it won't. That's the simple financial reality of where we are. The two things are tied though aren't they, but we do seem to have the tightest millionaire in football. He's in for a big bundle already, I can see why he wants to stop tbh

How mighty considerate of us. I hate to say this but i think we've got this one right, nearly 28, last year of his contract, Lyon want rid. There's no way we should pay more than we are offering. But i do understand we need a striker badly we have to accept paying more than we think we should, whether this player is worth doing that for is another matter. I just hope we have identified other options. Could handle bringing in players with potential around 21/22 for 4/5 million really. I just hope they don't decide to go with what we have, would be massive mistake I reckon. That's the problem, i dont we ever have other targets. We really are a "all our eggs in one basket" club. That's why i said sometimes we should pay more. In this case i dont because of his contract and situation with Lyon. I just think our lists of mulitple players for a certain position never exist. Despite what Pardew says. when we pulled out of the douglas deal (apparently) was there not something along the lines of kinnear saying that they'll sign the player that's right regardless of whether there are cheaper alternatives? sure i remember something like that joe talking s**** again for a change then Tbf this one is a bit different, were just tight all round. We have our valuation and we stick to it, even if it means cutting our nose off, to spite our own face. More like we have our budget and we stick to it IMO. It's a known fact that Ashley doesn't want to/won't put any more of his own money in, the club must live within it's means, that will drive the available £££'s for players in fee's and wages and that will drive the size of offers to buy players. Moaningabout an "extra million" here and there isn't the reality. IF the club can afford the extra million, it'll pay it, if that extra million means Ashley has to put his hand in his pocket, it won't. That's the simple financial reality of where we are.

Had that thought myself, the "sent to train alone bollocks" story was due to special regime he was working through because of Ramadan, with the work being done with the new fitness guru, which by reports has been extremely intensive, not the best thing to be doing with no food or fluids during the day at the best of times, never mind in the heat.

Course he does, he liberated it from the Japanese in 1945

Sex out of wedlock with a non muslim non virgin perhaps????? YOU DON'T HAVE TO BELIEVE OR SUBSCRIBE TO EVERYTHING IN ONE RELIGION YOU f***ing DOLT. If you are portraying yourself as "devout" you do

You do realise what outsourcing means don't you ?? It usually means you get a better deal than the cost of running something yourself. Which furthermore is guaranteed for the length of the contract, no ups and downs, guaranteed steady moolah. The commercial revenue is poor, granted, but to sell corporate you've got to have a company with major presence in an area to entertain visitors. Not so sure there's that many around here now, certainly not with schmoosing, entertainment budgets like they used to be. Of course I do, I'm a business owner/manager. For me, outsourcing is like handing over a bit of your business to someone else. While we no doubt get a steady return over the course of a few years, we have no control over the quality nor can we improve our margins while tied to such a deal. To me, its a kop-out. Under FS we made decent money from catering and events and such. I think we make like 2m a year from this as it stands which is p*ss poor to be honest. 53,000 fans every other week and thousands of people working and being in and around SJP every week? Ashley outsourcing is another clear sign of an exit strategy btw. Me, if I were Ashley I'd buy a Macdonald's franchise and stick one in each stand. The club would make a fortune. I'd even bolt one to the stadium for non-match days too. OK you don't understand outsourcing then. Businesses don't hand over "core" business they outsource peripheral stuff. NUFC's core business is not making/sourcing pies/sausage rolls or brewing/selling beer or bovril. Companies who do catering (for example) are geared to be able to undertake the same catering for less (economies of scale) than a non-catering company trying to set up a catering side-line. You don't outsource to make less money, you outsource to make more money. All the money you get from an outsourced deal is 100% margin, you have no overhead, run it yourself and your margin is variable. BTW SJH first outsourced the catering. Seems like I don't when you put it like that Anyway, its something I personally wouldn't do myself. I can see why Ashley would though, along with other areas of the club as he has no interest in the long-term or building something, he wants the club to cost as little as possible to run and to claw as back as much as it can for him so he can get out. Every fan should want that, leaves more "margin" for the team (even if he recoups some of his £££'s along the way). Also I reiterate, SJH started the outsourcing, it's really not a bad/negative thing.

You do realise what outsourcing means don't you ?? It usually means you get a better deal than the cost of running something yourself. Which furthermore is guaranteed for the length of the contract, no ups and downs, guaranteed steady moolah. The commercial revenue is poor, granted, but to sell corporate you've got to have a company with major presence in an area to entertain visitors. Not so sure there's that many around here now, certainly not with schmoosing, entertainment budgets like they used to be. Of course I do, I'm a business owner/manager. For me, outsourcing is like handing over a bit of your business to someone else. While we no doubt get a steady return over the course of a few years, we have no control over the quality nor can we improve our margins while tied to such a deal. To me, its a kop-out. Under FS we made decent money from catering and events and such. I think we make like 2m a year from this as it stands which is p*ss poor to be honest. 53,000 fans every other week and thousands of people working and being in and around SJP every week? Ashley outsourcing is another clear sign of an exit strategy btw. Me, if I were Ashley I'd buy a Macdonald's franchise and stick one in each stand. The club would make a fortune. I'd even bolt one to the stadium for non-match days too. OK you don't understand outsourcing then. Businesses don't hand over "core" business they outsource peripheral stuff. NUFC's core business is not making/sourcing pies/sausage rolls or brewing/selling beer or bovril. Companies who do catering (for example) are geared to be able to undertake the same catering for less (economies of scale) than a non-catering company trying to set up a catering side-line. You don't outsource to make less money, you outsource to make more money. All the money you get from an outsourced deal is 100% margin, you have no overhead, run it yourself and your margin is variable. BTW SJH first outsourced the catering.

What has caused that, is it anything beyond the lack of on-field success? Monument Mall hiked up the rent when they upgraded it and the club never really put any effort into the Eldon Square one. The fact we don't have a shop in the Airport departure lounge is criminal. Why's it criminal, I go through there every week and the only shop I see selling stuff is duty free booze and tabs, even when we did have a presence there it was a cart. If it would make money there'd be shops all over, the owners a retailer FFS Put a club shop in there and sell shirts at £30-35 quid a pop and you'd sell thousands over the summer. No you wouldn't, really you wouldn't, we never did when we had a cart in there.

What has caused that, is it anything beyond the lack of on-field success? Monument Mall hiked up the rent when they upgraded it and the club never really put any effort into the Eldon Square one. The fact we don't have a shop in the Airport departure lounge is criminal. Why's it criminal, I go through there every week and the only shop I see selling stuff is duty free booze and tabs, even when we did have a presence there it was a cart. If it would make money there'd be shops all over, the owners a retailer FFS

What has caused that, is it anything beyond the lack of on-field success? Merchandise revenue has fallen since Ashley came in. Erm there's a recession on. Be surprised if all clubs (apart from the obvious few) aren't the same. It's not ALL down to the FCB.

If it still could bring in that sort of cash it'd still be there, the universal replica kit rip off is seen for what it is, coupled with a recession and tight money, stuff like that was always going to suffer. If we were realistically chasing the title, things would change, but we're not and the way football is, are not likely too again for a long long time.

You do realise what outsourcing means don't you ?? It usually means you get a better deal than the cost of running something yourself. Which furthermore is guaranteed for the length of the contract, no ups and downs, guaranteed steady moolah. The commercial revenue is poor, granted, but to sell corporate you've got to have a company with major presence in an area to entertain visitors. Not so sure there's that many around here now, certainly not with schmoosing, entertainment budgets like they used to be.

Its not just that we aren't successful in terms of silverware - the standard of football is dire and we are seen as also-rans ; fans will not want to see rubbish on the field or feel as if we have no chance of even getting near to a FA/Littlewoods Cup Final. Such things would be enough to bring fans back esp if we played attractive football. People are NOT going to stay on a waiting list if they are being viewed with contempt by the clubs management or watching the side lose to Sunderland, Liverpool and Arsenal whilst conceding shed-loads of goals....... Depends what your view of 'success' is..... NUFC will always get a level of support far outweighing what they should, in relation to any success, it's just the way it is.

Couldn't agree more.

The capacity of the stadium has increased by almost 20,000 in that time. Anyone complaining about low ticket prices can go suck a dick as far as I'm concerned. Football is overpriced as it is and the economy is f***ed. The club have done a great job of making it accessible to all. I think the ticket prices is a good thing, my point was that its reactionary to the relative poor performance of the club as a whole. Ticket prices are set ahead of time and thus by definition can't be reactionary, if they were reactionary they'd have gone up significantly after finishing 5th. Attendances will rise/fall in line with performance on the park (same as any club) although we have always tended to get better crowds than most even when we're crap. That continues to be the case. It's a miniscule minority who won't go because of "off the pitch" antics rather than on the pitch stuff. That's borne out by the numbers we get through the gates. My lads are getting 3 ST's between them this year because they can now afford them, they couldn't give two hoots about anything other than going to the game. Oh aye, they talk about the Ashley stuff, but it doesn't register in the slightest when deciding to attend the match or not.