Thumbheed
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Posts posted by Thumbheed
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Either way it just makes no sense to me. Why would the buyers not insist the manager be replaced?
That's my line of thinking as well. Surely if the deal was close to being done or even if they were just very confident of it getting done, the buyers would be doing all they can to protect their future investment. To me that would mean them telling Ashley to chuck Bruce out and to add his compensation package onto the price at the end.
More than likely a legal and ethical minefield. They dont own the club after all.
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Obviously Ashley is a proven liar, but the club statement last week confirmed that they are still working on that deal.
How is this even up for debate?
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If it was off then why wouldn't AS say so? I can't think of a single reason why she wouldn't, she's not exactly shy about engaging the media and has done exactly that on a couple of occasions now.
This is on until someone significant says its off. It's as simple as that.
The main party in the consortium literally did say this.
So it's been off since that point in your eyes? If so then Ashley's statement and subsequent actions dont add up, furthermore there's enough out there to suggest PIF are still keen, even Luke Edwards accepted PIF were still on board. But further to my original point, we know how AS operates in these exact situations because she's been through them before so it makes no sense for us to believe she'd just slink off into the night without a single word being spoken.
Absolutely. It has been off since then.
Ashley’s statement and subsequent actions can be explained because he’s unhappy the deal is off. Why would he be fighting for a deal which is going ahead? He wouldn’t need to.
It may only be back on once multiple hurdles have been overcome - sadly none of them are even close.
Because he doesn't believe the test was carried out properly and feels it should have gone through? He even made direct reference to the fact PIF had provided information the EPL had requested. Those aren't the words of a man who believes this is dead.
Well actually, they are the words from a man who believes this is dead:
http://www.nufc.co.uk/news/latest-news/club-statement-1
Newcastle United can confirm that the Premier League has rejected a takeover bid made by PCP Capital Partners, the Reuben Brothers and the Public Investment Fund of Saudi Arabia (PIF) based on its Owners and Directors test.This conclusion has been reached despite the club providing the Premier League with overwhelming evidence and legal opinions that PIF is independent and autonomous of the Saudi Arabian government.
The club and its owners do not accept that Premier League chief executive Richard Masters and the Premier League have acted appropriately in relation to this matter and will be considering all relevant options available to them.
Mike Ashley understands fans’ frustrations and would like to reassure them that he has been fully committed to ensuring this takeover process reached completion as he felt it was in the best interests of the club. Mike continues to be fully supportive to Steve Bruce, the players and all the staff and wishes them well for the upcoming season.
AS carried out an interview where she informed us the deal was off.
PIF released a statement withdrawing their bid.
MA released the above statement advising the takeover had collapsed.
What more do you want/need?Richard Masters himself denied they'd rejected the takeover, and the club subsequently pursued arbitration on the issue of whether the OD test applied appropriately. I'm no legal expert but if the case was for compensation, then I'm not sure why the club would be pursuing it, and not Ashley himself. It's his asset after all.
It's worth mentioning that AS also engaged fan action on the issues which we obliged. The Reuben brothers released a statement confirming they're "totally supportive" of a resurrection of the takeover and there has been plenty written about PIFs continued interest. These aren't the actions of people who no longer see the takeover as a viable option.
Your last part answers the original point. The Reubens are supportive of a ‘resurrection’. You don’t tend to need to resurrect something that is currently active. The deal is currently off. There is no deal.
There only would be a deal if multiple complex issues are resolved (in addition to the arbitration). All of which currently look unlikely.
Ahh, so you're arguing semantics. Then yes, I agree there is no official bid on the table that is awaiting approval, but it's my concrete belief that there will be should the clubs "compensation" claim be successful (and we don't get relegated).
As above - that’s not true or possible. There is much more to it then just the arbitration.
Based on what out of interest?
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If it was off then why wouldn't AS say so? I can't think of a single reason why she wouldn't, she's not exactly shy about engaging the media and has done exactly that on a couple of occasions now.
This is on until someone significant says its off. It's as simple as that.
The main party in the consortium literally did say this.
So it's been off since that point in your eyes? If so then Ashley's statement and subsequent actions dont add up, furthermore there's enough out there to suggest PIF are still keen, even Luke Edwards accepted PIF were still on board. But further to my original point, we know how AS operates in these exact situations because she's been through them before so it makes no sense for us to believe she'd just slink off into the night without a single word being spoken.
Absolutely. It has been off since then.
Ashley’s statement and subsequent actions can be explained because he’s unhappy the deal is off. Why would he be fighting for a deal which is going ahead? He wouldn’t need to.
It may only be back on once multiple hurdles have been overcome - sadly none of them are even close.
Because he doesn't believe the test was carried out properly and feels it should have gone through? He even made direct reference to the fact PIF had provided information the EPL had requested. Those aren't the words of a man who believes this is dead.
Well actually, they are the words from a man who believes this is dead:
http://www.nufc.co.uk/news/latest-news/club-statement-1
Newcastle United can confirm that the Premier League has rejected a takeover bid made by PCP Capital Partners, the Reuben Brothers and the Public Investment Fund of Saudi Arabia (PIF) based on its Owners and Directors test.This conclusion has been reached despite the club providing the Premier League with overwhelming evidence and legal opinions that PIF is independent and autonomous of the Saudi Arabian government.
The club and its owners do not accept that Premier League chief executive Richard Masters and the Premier League have acted appropriately in relation to this matter and will be considering all relevant options available to them.
Mike Ashley understands fans’ frustrations and would like to reassure them that he has been fully committed to ensuring this takeover process reached completion as he felt it was in the best interests of the club. Mike continues to be fully supportive to Steve Bruce, the players and all the staff and wishes them well for the upcoming season.
AS carried out an interview where she informed us the deal was off.
PIF released a statement withdrawing their bid.
MA released the above statement advising the takeover had collapsed.
What more do you want/need?Richard Masters himself denied they'd rejected the takeover, and the club subsequently pursued arbitration on the issue of whether the OD test applied appropriately. I'm no legal expert but if the case was for compensation, then I'm not sure why the club would be pursuing it, and not Ashley himself. It's his asset after all.
It's worth mentioning that AS also engaged fan action on the issues which we obliged. The Reuben brothers released a statement confirming they're "totally supportive" of a resurrection of the takeover and there has been plenty written about PIFs continued interest. These aren't the actions of people who no longer see the takeover as a viable option.
Your last part answers the original point. The Reubens are supportive of a ‘resurrection’. You don’t tend to need to resurrect something that is currently active. The deal is currently off. There is no deal.
There only would be a deal if multiple complex issues are resolved (in addition to the arbitration). All of which currently look unlikely.
Ahh, so you're arguing semantics. Then yes, I agree there is no official bid on the table that is awaiting approval, but it's my concrete belief that there will be should the clubs "compensation" claim be successful (and we don't get relegated).
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If it was off then why wouldn't AS say so? I can't think of a single reason why she wouldn't, she's not exactly shy about engaging the media and has done exactly that on a couple of occasions now.
This is on until someone significant says its off. It's as simple as that.
The main party in the consortium literally did say this.
So it's been off since that point in your eyes? If so then Ashley's statement and subsequent actions dont add up, furthermore there's enough out there to suggest PIF are still keen, even Luke Edwards accepted PIF were still on board. But further to my original point, we know how AS operates in these exact situations because she's been through them before so it makes no sense for us to believe she'd just slink off into the night without a single word being spoken.
Absolutely. It has been off since then.
Ashley’s statement and subsequent actions can be explained because he’s unhappy the deal is off. Why would he be fighting for a deal which is going ahead? He wouldn’t need to.
It may only be back on once multiple hurdles have been overcome - sadly none of them are even close.
Because he doesn't believe the test was carried out properly and feels it should have gone through? He even made direct reference to the fact PIF had provided information the EPL had requested. Those aren't the words of a man who believes this is dead.
Well actually, they are the words from a man who believes this is dead:
http://www.nufc.co.uk/news/latest-news/club-statement-1
Newcastle United can confirm that the Premier League has rejected a takeover bid made by PCP Capital Partners, the Reuben Brothers and the Public Investment Fund of Saudi Arabia (PIF) based on its Owners and Directors test.This conclusion has been reached despite the club providing the Premier League with overwhelming evidence and legal opinions that PIF is independent and autonomous of the Saudi Arabian government.
The club and its owners do not accept that Premier League chief executive Richard Masters and the Premier League have acted appropriately in relation to this matter and will be considering all relevant options available to them.
Mike Ashley understands fans’ frustrations and would like to reassure them that he has been fully committed to ensuring this takeover process reached completion as he felt it was in the best interests of the club. Mike continues to be fully supportive to Steve Bruce, the players and all the staff and wishes them well for the upcoming season.
AS carried out an interview where she informed us the deal was off.
PIF released a statement withdrawing their bid.
MA released the above statement advising the takeover had collapsed.
What more do you want/need?Richard Masters himself denied they'd rejected the takeover, and the club subsequently pursued arbitration on the issue of whether the OD test applied appropriately. I'm no legal expert but if the case was for compensation, then I'm not sure why the club would be pursuing it, and not Ashley himself. It's his asset after all.
It's worth mentioning that AS also engaged fan action on the issues which we obliged. The Reuben brothers released a statement confirming they're "totally supportive" of a resurrection of the takeover and there has been plenty written about PIFs continued interest. These aren't the actions of people who no longer see the takeover as a viable option.
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If it was off then why wouldn't AS say so? I can't think of a single reason why she wouldn't, she's not exactly shy about engaging the media and has done exactly that on a couple of occasions now.
This is on until someone significant says its off. It's as simple as that.
The main party in the consortium literally did say this.
So it's been off since that point in your eyes? If so then Ashley's statement and subsequent actions dont add up, furthermore there's enough out there to suggest PIF are still keen, even Luke Edwards accepted PIF were still on board. But further to my original point, we know how AS operates in these exact situations because she's been through them before so it makes no sense for us to believe she'd just slink off into the night without a single word being spoken.
Absolutely. It has been off since then.
Ashley’s statement and subsequent actions can be explained because he’s unhappy the deal is off. Why would he be fighting for a deal which is going ahead? He wouldn’t need to.
It may only be back on once multiple hurdles have been overcome - sadly none of them are even close.
Because he doesn't believe the test was carried out properly and feels it should have gone through? He even made direct reference to the fact PIF had provided information the EPL had requested. Those aren't the words of a man who believes this is dead.
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If it was off then why wouldn't AS say so? I can't think of a single reason why she wouldn't, she's not exactly shy about engaging the media and has done exactly that on a couple of occasions now.
This is on until someone significant says its off. It's as simple as that.
She did a massive interview with caulkin saying it was off, in tears etc. She’s never officially said it’s back on.
I do believe they want to buy the club but I also believe it’s more of a hassle than they bargained for
Then the club released their statement and took subsequent action. We also got the official statement from the Reuben brithers confirming they "remain supportive" of the takeover.
Like I say, for me, it's on until one of the Reubens, AS or Ashley himself say it's off.
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If it was off then why wouldn't AS say so? I can't think of a single reason why she wouldn't, she's not exactly shy about engaging the media and has done exactly that on a couple of occasions now.
This is on until someone significant says its off. It's as simple as that.
The main party in the consortium literally did say this.
So it's been off since that point in your eyes? If so then Ashley's statement and subsequent actions dont add up, furthermore there's enough out there to suggest PIF are still keen, even Luke Edwards accepted PIF were still on board. But further to my original point, we know how AS operates in these exact situations because she's been through them before so it makes no sense for us to believe she'd just slink off into the night without a single word being spoken.
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If it was off then why wouldn't AS say so? I can't think of a single reason why she wouldn't, she's not exactly shy about engaging the media and has done exactly that on a couple of occasions now.
This is on until someone significant says its off. It's as simple as that.
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I don't need stats to see that we're better with Almiron in the team, in his right position.
That's a different argument. When did I say we are not? I just don't think he is as good as everyone is making out to be.
Team improves when Almiron is played in the correct position = average player
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Irrespective of the outcome of arbitration or wherever it may lead, I can't help but think there'll need to be another round of negotiations between buyer and seller in light of our current predicament, so in my eyes if this is going to be completed, it won't be until after the season ends.
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There's lots of reasons why.
Ok, go.....
As an actual investment itself - growing the club commercially to increase the value of your investment.
Cultural reasons - having a high profile club in a high profile league encourages sporting endeavour in the region
Sportswashing - pretty apparent reasoning
Vanity project
Increasing the profile of the country itself on a worldwide stage
Anchor point for investment in the city itself
To name a few.
Ok, so where in your opinion does AS fit into that? The first I assume?
Probably yeh, and I'm sure there'll be other less obvious reasons too.
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There's lots of reasons why.
Ok, go.....
As an actual investment itself - growing the club commercially to increase the value of your investment.
Cultural reasons - having a high profile club in a high profile league encourages sporting endeavour in the region
Sportswashing - pretty apparent reasoning
Vanity project
Increasing the profile of the country itself on a worldwide stage
Anchor point for investment in the city itself
To name a few.
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There's lots of reasons why.
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yo seriously this is literally the "positive optimism" thread and if it pains you to see people hopeful just don't read or post in it. if you think they're delusional to the point of real life harm please contact the authorities.
there's absolutely no value at all in waltzing in and thinking you're about to debunk everything with an ill wrought tweet and a condescending smirk. great. take that to the takeover thread. this is for morons like me to be blissfully, willfully ignorant of whatever landmines you think we're dancing over.
let it be
This.
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What’s the fuss about has the land of the free stopped importing Saudi oil based on this intelligence report. Has Boris called an emergency cabinet meeting to stop all dealings with Saudi Arabia. Is there going to be an international conviction of MBS based of this report ?
This thread will die when Mandy says it’s over and Jink Jim says no mas.
Nothing has changed despite lot of bed wetting yet again, people blow with the wind in this place, hold you’re nerve keep calm and carry on.
f*** sake man. Wake up. It’s not bed wetting It pretty much proves MBS & PIF are far from separate which is the very specific reason Masters gave for the takeover not going thru.
You don’t get it or just refuse to get it. It’s got very little to do with the US, oil money or even the murder itself, the PL have accused MBS of being a shadow director and said he must take the O&D test which he simply won’t
If piracy is not an issue and legal cases are dropped, where does it say in the test that the Saudi state cannot own the club ?
I honestly don’t see how they can clear up the separation issue and it certainly looks like the PL have a very strong case in their belief that MBS & PIF are not seperate
So were MBS be dethroned/jailed etc would PIF cease to exist and if not why?
No (I’d think) PIF would be controlled by the next ruler but now we are just dealing in hypotheticals
We are, but its a perfectly viable scenario which alludes to the legal separation thst the club's trying to argue. I'm no expert but I'm still struggling to see what the recent news changes.
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What’s the fuss about has the land of the free stopped importing Saudi oil based on this intelligence report. Has Boris called an emergency cabinet meeting to stop all dealings with Saudi Arabia. Is there going to be an international conviction of MBS based of this report ?
This thread will die when Mandy says it’s over and Jink Jim says no mas.
Nothing has changed despite lot of bed wetting yet again, people blow with the wind in this place, hold you’re nerve keep calm and carry on.
f*** sake man. Wake up. It’s not bed wetting It pretty much proves MBS & PIF are far from separate which is the very specific reason Masters gave for the takeover not going thru.
You don’t get it or just refuse to get it. It’s got very little to do with the US, oil money or even the murder itself, the PL have accused MBS of being a shadow director and said he must take the O&D test which he simply won’t
If piracy is not an issue and legal cases are dropped, where does it say in the test that the Saudi state cannot own the club ?
I honestly don’t see how they can clear up the separation issue and it certainly looks like the PL have a very strong case in their belief that MBS & PIF are not seperate
So were MBS be dethroned/jailed etc would PIF cease to exist and if not why?
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So is the argument now that PIF have knowingly facilitated the murder of Khashoggi?
The point is more that the PIF ultimately operates under the absolute control of MBS. So yes day-to-day operations are managed by his appointments, but ultimately if he wants to commandeer PIF-owned planes to facilitate the murder of a journalist then there's f*** all anyone can do about it. So no one can ever push the "fully independent" line with a straight face.
On this basis, this isn't new information. We've always known that MBS chairs PIF and that there are definite links between it and the state. Everything hinges on whether or not De Marco et al can sufficiently argue against the fact that the link is an absolutely fundamental one.
Aye, basically this.
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So is the argument now that PIF have knowingly facilitated the murder of Khashoggi?
The point is more that the PIF ultimately operates under the absolute control of MBS. So yes day-to-day operations are managed by his appointments, but ultimately if he wants to commandeer PIF-owned planes to facilitate the murder of a journalist then there's f*** all anyone can do about it. So no one can ever push the "fully independent" line with a straight face.
OK, so how would the EPL actually prove that to be the case? Doesn't the proof of non-separation need to be more hard wired than anecdotal evidence? Why would that implicate PIF and make the argument EPL trying to make any different to what they're already presenting?
Genuine question bytheway, it just seems the fact MBS is chairman of PIF is more compelling evidence itself than this.
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So is the argument now that PIF have knowingly facilitated the murder of Khashoggi?
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If he ends up at Celtic or anywhere else, it would give me some kind of closure in regards to the takeover here. I do believe, albeit just a very tiny bit in me, saying that Rafa knows what is going on with the takeover and once it is approved, he would come back. If he goes anywhere else, then I really don't care to follow any developments about the takeover until it happens (if ever it does).
Rafa might have somewhat more of a direct line to the buyers but right now the only updates will be coming from Mike Ashley’s legal team. It’s anyone’s guess what will happen. I’m not holding my breath as far as Rafa is concerned
Bit silly thinking Rafa's future is in any way indicative of where we stand with a multi million pound takeover by one of the richest sovereign wealth funds in the world.
He may well be their first choice but I'm confident they'd be confident of having a plan b.
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94 pages stretching over 10 months and there’s been f*** all positive happened as of yet
The arbritation case agaisnt the PL not something positive or are you a closet optimist who needs constant reassurances?
Well for me I’ll wait for the outcome of arbitration before I decide if it’s positive. If it fails it’s not exactly positive is it?
I don’t particularly feel having this hangover out heads all season has really helped either
I think others - myself included - are taking the fact that the club are pursuing arbritation to the extent that other potential purchasers are being put off engaging Ashley, as a positive and reason to be optimistic.
So unless you're of the opinion that the PL have acted appropriately, then I'm unsure why there wouldn't be a tinge of optimism or excitement for how this case may pan out, but then again that's the nature of optimism isn't it?
Fair point. I’m genuinely of the view that the club will win arbitration or come to an agreement but I do think relegation will kill any takeover I just don’t see how it wouldn’t
Yeh I agree, having to think about the possibility of relegation is such an uneccassaary ballache but very newcastle like tbh.
Basically, I cling on to this thread because the alternative will be the end of the club for me.
That’s fair enough. I appreciate that. Can’t see me having the stomach for another season under Ashley
Aye thats exactly where I'm at
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94 pages stretching over 10 months and there’s been f*** all positive happened as of yet
The arbritation case agaisnt the PL not something positive or are you a closet optimist who needs constant reassurances?
Well for me I’ll wait for the outcome of arbitration before I decide if it’s positive. If it fails it’s not exactly positive is it?
I don’t particularly feel having this hangover out heads all season has really helped either
I think others - myself included - are taking the fact that the club are pursuing arbritation to the extent that other potential purchasers are being put off engaging Ashley, as a positive and reason to be optimistic.
So unless you're of the opinion that the PL have acted appropriately, then I'm unsure why there wouldn't be a tinge of optimism or excitement for how this case may pan out, but then again that's the nature of optimism isn't it?
Fair point. I’m genuinely of the view that the club will win arbitration or come to an agreement but I do think relegation will kill any takeover I just don’t see how it wouldn’t
Yeh I agree, having to think about the possibility of relegation is such an uneccassaary ballache but very newcastle like tbh.
Basically, I cling on to this thread because the alternative will be the end of the club for me.
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94 pages stretching over 10 months and there’s been f*** all positive happened as of yet
The arbritation case agaisnt the PL not something positive or are you a closet optimist who needs constant reassurances?
Well for me I’ll wait for the outcome of arbitration before I decide if it’s positive. If it fails it’s not exactly positive is it?
I don’t particularly feel having this hangover out heads all season has really helped either
I think others - myself included - are taking the fact that the club are pursuing arbritation to the extent that other potential purchasers are being put off engaging Ashley, as a positive and reason to be optimistic.
So unless you're of the opinion that the PL have acted appropriately, then I'm unsure why there wouldn't be a tinge of optimism or excitement for how this case may pan out, but then again that's the nature of optimism isn't it?
Takeover Thread - July 1st statement, Staveley letter to Tracey Crouch (and response) in OP
in Football
Posted
If you read the Chron's story on BNG just before you read this article you'll quicky figure out who The Sun's source is.