Holmesy

I’m not sure, probably not. Let me give you a scenario though. Steve Bruce is managing Newcastle. We have one player who is creating and scoring 90% of our goals, just one and we’re reliant on him (despite having a squad full of other players). Key player gets injured and we go a losing run. Bruce comes out to the media and says ‘of course we’re losing games, we’ve lost x player. We can’t win without him” Do we all just accept that Bruce not trying to come up with an alternative plan to create goals in this player’s absence is ok? We just accept we’re going to lose games because obviously we can’t expect the manager to do anything about it? Of course we don’t, we go ape shit because it’s a clear demonstration and essentially an admission that he’s not very good at football management. So Joelinton/Pope get injured and we just accept that without those players the only option is to accept conceding 3 goals per game? There’s no other alternative? Eg. Changing the system to mitigate the loss of those players? Playing different players etc. Nope, Joelinton’s injured, we can’t defend for shit now!! Get out there and score 4 again lads! Honestly, I’ve heard some nonsense! It’s literally the man’s job to find solutions to these problems. At the moment the solution is score more than three goals. Yesterday it worked great - happy days! Sometimes it won’t. But it would seem that conceding fewer would give us a greater chance of winning games, and it would give me a lot more faith in the man for the future if he demonstrated he could do that.

But the understandable reasons are things that Eddie can influence and isn’t doing. The defending is that shit every single game. The only conclusions that can be drawn from nothing changing despite us conceding 3 goals a game are: 1. Eddie is ok with it because he knows we can score 4 or 2. He doesn’t know what to do about it 1 is less concerning than 2, but neither paints a brilliant picture. Am I missing something? Seriously?

I’m not suggesting he’s not trying. He’s a relentless workaholic. I just don’t see anything different that he’s trying defensively. Maybe I’m missing subtle changes, but we’re still conceding 3 goals a game, so I’m not sure subtle changes are enough even if they are happening

I’m 45 mate, I don’t play computer games. ?

Other than Joe Willock coming into the midfield, I haven’t seen anything to suggest that he’s changed/changing anything. And Willock isn’t even a defensive change, he’s a midfield one designed to provide more cover to a porous defence. The defence, however, is still porous. Have you seen anything to suggest that he is?

I convinced myself a long time ago, using nothing but my eyes and a fairly average brain, that dropping Dan Burn would alleviate a lot of our defensive issues. Put some pace in there and give opposition teams one less focal point to exploit, and we’ve addressed two of our problems. We saw how it worked against Villa - they started targeting Burn and had loads of joy, so we brought Livra on at LB and they had to change plan. We tightened up and saw out the game. Just do that more! It has already worked!

You’re absolutely spot on, but also remember this is the pinnacle of club football. The elitist of elite sport. We should b making these analysts have to really earn their money to come up with a plan for creating chances against us, let alone scoring. For the past few months, leaving a pacey player on the halfway line when we have a set piece will get you chances. As will putting your fastest player on the right wing and continually running at Dan Burn. The effectiveness of a plan as simple as that should leave our entire supporter-base horrified, but most seem ok with it. Honestly, some of the shithouse managers we’ve had made it harder for them. Our only saving grace is how good we are going forward (and Eddie deserves as much praise for that as he does criticism for making us so easy to score against).

Name one team that has won a cup or league in the past day 20 years conceding an average of 3 goals per game?

What’s even more awful surely, is just going “well there’s not a single thing we can do about that so we’ll just accept conceding 3 goals per game”?! At least fucking try to stop us conceding FFS! Do something! Of course Joelinton is a huge miss, but if one player missing renders our whole defensive game plan useless, it’s a pretty sketchy plan to start with, right?!

Keiran Trippier went through a run of terrible form where he individually cost us goals in multiple games (possibly due to fatigue). Never even looked like being dropped despite us having a fully fit Livra on the bench, who has been one of our players of the season despite his lack of minutes. Botman looked crap for ages. Never dropped despite not even being fully fit. Swap him with Burn or Lascelles and bring in a proper left full back. Dan Burn has largely been a disaster for the past 4-5 months and has cost us goals individually in a good number of games. Never looked like being dropped despite us having a fully fit Livra and Hall on the bench, both of whom have looked excellent when they’ve played recently. This is the biggest head scratcher for me. When Bruce continued playing Ciaran Clark and leaving Schar on the bench people went mental. What’s the difference here? This is more of a shape thing. Every set piece, we throw 9 men forward, leaving one back. This, despite having probably the slowest defence and midfield in the league. We are more threatened from our own set pieces than we are threatening - constantly. Leave more players back. We rarely score from set pieces anyway so it’s a shit risk to take - see Bowen’s goal yesterday Our midfield is cut open so easily, leaving our pedestrian back 4 totally exposed. Dropping one midfielder back to fill the gap between defence and midfield would give us loads more protection. I would suggest Longstaff given that he offers nothing from an attacking standpoint. Against superior teams, sit deeper to negate our defensive fragility. Press hard when they cross the halfway line and use our pace and passing accuracy to play on the counter. Not all player-related but I also don’t think any of them would be considered crackpot suggestions.

Let me just clarify, I don’t want Eddie sacked. I want him to stay AND I want him to address the awful defensive scenarios and worrying team selections. If he learns from his mistakes and we come back stronger, I hope he stays for years. If he doesn’t, and we continue shipping loads of goals and missing out on points we should’ve had, THEN I think he will have proven he’s not the top class, ruthless winner we need to fulfil our ambitions.

Everyone?! 6 people on a football forum who could easily just ignore it ?. You don’t have to read every post buddy, it doesn’t work like that

Entitled?! I’m 45 years old, I’ve supported this club since I was in single digits. I’ve seen us mis-managed from pillar-to-post for decades. Awful managerial appointment after awful managerial appointment. Favoured players sold on and not replaced etc. And now, finally we have owners who want to turn us into a world class sporting institution on and off the pitch. So I might genuinely have a chance to see us win something before I pop my clogs! Maybe my mentality and expectations have changed. But our owners have installed Eddie Howe as our manager, to help fulfil their ambitions, which are now our ambitions. And I see naivety and weakness in Eddie Howe that others don’t seem to want to admit. I’m ok with that, but it doesn’t make them untrue. You telling other fans and forum users to fuck off because they don’t share your opinions is why this board is toxic.

Wow, sick burn pal. Sharp as a fucking bouncy ball.

And would you say they carved us open with exceptional attacking play? So slick and well drilled we just couldn’t deal with them? Or that we’re normally so defensively solid that yesterday can be put down to a bad day at the office? It doesn’t matter if it’s Luton, West Ham, Forest or anyone else, the same shit players and the same shit defensive mistakes are at fault for us shipping an average of nearly 3 goals per game. The manager is not addressing it. We are shit defensively and have been for months, and the manager is not addressing it. If it was Bruce, Pardew or anyone else people would be apoplectic. “But we won, but they’re 7th, but we don’t have Joelinton”. Yada yada yada. Seriously, it’s getting fucking boring now. The 3 points yesterday were great. It was a throwback to our best ever era, but it papered over some cracks that people seem happy to ignore. The result was great, the performance raised questions. If this defensive exposure, shit personal choices, kamikaze set play overloads, lack of pace from midfield back etc. had been addressed we would have more points than we do now, plain and simple. I don’t want to support another circus that ships 3 but can score 5. We will never win anything doing that. I want to support a serious club with a serious fucking plan that can shut teams out completely and then put them to the sword. I don’t want a manager who won’t drop players who consistently cost us goals individually. It’s pathetic and borderline fucking self-sabotaging at times. I want a ruthless winner who demands better than that from everyone. Any manager who is ok with us shipping 3 but scoring 4 is a stepping stone manager only because eventually the board will have to replace him with someone less naive, more mature and with a proven winning pedigree. Enjoy the win by all means but take the fucking blinkers off at the same time.

Yeah, similar thinking! I’ll happily sacrifice a fiver to see us win, and if we don’t the winnings soften the blow by about 3%

I had money on West Ham to win. Bet365 paid out early and then we went on our rampage. Double whammy! ?

Good! He’s a fucking tit

So near but…..

We’ve been in cup finals before. I was at university ffs! ? To be fair, it never felt like we had a chance back then and I’d feel a bit more confident we could compete now, but winning? I’m not confident

I loved the Keegan era and for me, Sir Bobby’s time was just as magical but I’m ready for us to win something now. Ashley robbed me of 13 years, I’m now 45 and I’ve seen us win fuck all. I’d love Eddie to be the guy to end the drought but I just don’t see it happening.

You don’t have to conclude anything. This is just my view. I feel like I’ve seen enough to make a judgement but I’ll happily eat humble pie if I’m wrong.

Exactly, that’s the entire point of the post - he would improve us because right now anything would be an upgrade on Longstaff. But I agree - I didn’t actually know he was playing until maybe 30 mins in today, and that’s because he appeared on screen, not because he was mentioned ?

I was thinking about this after the game - would the fanbase take another Keegan-esque era? Exciting games like that, loads of goals but never winning anything because of defensive nativity. For me, that feels like how it will go under Howe. (For those that point out our defensive solidity last season, that is feeling more like a fluke than by design as every week goes by. Also see the rest of Howe’s PL career). Or would they rather we won something but perhaps did it in a slightly more conservative way?

You base your player judgements on one game? Bit harsh! His stats are consistently good, mostly in a struggling Southampton team. This season he’s got more assists than goals, and then you can rely on him from set pieces as well. He would be a massive upgrade on Longstaff! I don’t want him, but to suggest he wouldn’t improve our midfield is crazy.