Holmesy

To be fair, we are second in the league for crosses delivered so I stand corrected. Seems even more daft to play Gordon up top in that case, rather than our towering striker. He'd get on the end of one eventually

Nutting the ball in the next was the first one we saw but the crosses dried up. His weight of pass is exceptional - put the right people around him and i've got more confidence in him playing them through than anyone else in the squad. Vision - he spots passes I haven't seen anyone else in our team spot, but he combines it with the ability to execute. And based on his video reel, he can finish as well but he won't get the time in this league that he did in the Bundesliga so he needs to work on finding space.

Same with the experiment of lumping balls up to him from deep and asking him to hold it up. That's not the player we signed and we should have known that. There's an argument that players can be coached to improve areas of their play, but when training time was limited due to Europe (combined with Eddie's high-intensity training style), wouldn't it make more sense to ask him to do the things we already know he can do, in positions we already know he can play?

No, but he is a £60m+ asset who isn't being deployed in a way that maximises his strengths. He's being shoe-horned into roles that are unfamiliar because of the manager's rigid system. You're never going to see the best of a player, even moreso a striker, by not playing to his strengths - it would have been the same if we'd played Isak in midfield. 15 minute cameos in games we are usually losing and under the cosh in doesn't feel like a fair crack of the whip, especially when our crosses are virtually non-existent now.

He's rapid and chaotic though, and has scored a wordlie coming in from the right. Chances of him being worse than our other RW options are slim.

Where has this come from? Was there a quote in the presser?

I either want to see a front three of Gordon - Wissa - Osula, Gordon - Wolte - Osula or a front two of Wissa and Wolte. What do we have to lose? Give the fuckers a chance to prove themselves ffs! Or get themselves a move if they're not for us. We know what Murphy and Elanga give us - absolutely fuck all. It's painful watching them week-in, week-out. Stop trying to make Wolte in to something he isn't, and play to his strengths.

I think it's fair to say we played better than most games recently. There were signs we were trying to keep the ball more and taking more risks playing the ball forward rather than backwards and sideways. But, we usually do step it up against the bigger teams - it's the smaller ones we seem to struggle to get up for. Some definite green shoots though, albeit small ones. I also think we saw enough of Wolte/Wissa in their short cameo to suggest they're worth a start together in the next game. Probably wishful thinking because that would require a change of system but if not now, when?

I don't think it's a stretch to flip it the other way as well though, and only time will truly tell. Massive improvement at Bournemouth, punching above their weight before a huge tail-off Massive improvement at Newcastle, punching above our weight before a huge tail-off 2 instances don't make a trend of course, and we'll only truly know Eddie's full potential if we keep him but if you were a prospective board looking at that you'd take it into account. The thing that would stand in his favour is most managers in the PL don't last this long, so if they're looking for massive improvement in the short-term, Eddie should absolutely be considered. I am interested to see if he can pull through this because I think it will define his future career-path if he does.

No, i'm not in the criticising Wolte camp at all - he's a young lad in a new country, with obvious ability, who has been signed for a lot of money. I don't think he deserves to have been dropped and I want to see him in the starting line-up, but i'm also of the opinion that Eddie should change the setup to suit him, rather than just expecting him to be Isak. My main gripe system-wise is that I think when your whole approach is geared around one playbook, when it stops working, you have nowhere to go. And it does seem as though it has either been found out or he's trying to find someone in the squad who can make it work, rather than changing it (or having the ability to change it). He's obsessive by nature, which is to his credit but I also think it's more likely to lead to him doubling down on trying to make plan A work than accepting change might be better option. I genuinely hope it doesn't end badly for him but time will tell.

That's exactly what i'm leaning towards. At least we could see he's trying to reverse the rut.

You make it sound like i'm the only one complaining about Eddie's lack of proactivity I think you'll find about 70% of our fanbase are complaining about it and have been for ages. Howe has spent £700m. We should be comfortably beating Leeds every time we play them. I'm not for a second suggesting Farke is a better manager, but he certainly displayed a greater awareness of where things weren't right and a willingness to make changes when needed - something I think all of us would love Eddie to do. Yesterday was one game, and a game (similar to Leeds v Chelsea) that we probably should be losing - away to the title challengers. I haven't made a single mention of the Arsenal game for precisely that reason. But I'm happy to cite games against Brighton, Brentford, Sunderland, Bournemouth, Crystal Palace, and even Barcelona among others. If we're really advocating not making changes because they don't get results, based on two instances, fair enough. So if Eddie leaves, we're looking for a flexible, winning manager who favours possession-based football, but good in-game management isn't important. Makes the hunt a little bit easier.

What did he change beyond just personnel?

Probably because some of the stuff written on here beggars belief, including the post that preceded mine above. I genuinely don't go out to be condescending but I often just sit here shaking my head at some of what I read. Farke's changes did exactly what they were designed to - changed the momentum of a game they were being dominated in, and gave them a chance. It doesn't always get you the result but that's football. Anyone denigrating positive in-game management because it didn't work for relegation threatened Leeds against one of the most heavily-spending cartel clubs in the league is surely on the wind up. It's a ridiculous stance, and yet another attempt to defend one of Eddie's obvious and well-documented limitations. Rafa turned the Champions League final in Instanbul through positive in-game management and it is still hailed as one of the best pieces of football management in the modern era. For me, it's one of the traits that separates the average from the great. It is possible to support Eddie and want him to remain whilst also accepting that his in-game management is poor. But suggesting in-game management is a waste of time because Leeds didn't beat Chelsea is moronic. I apologise if my tone offends though.

And because it happened once means it will never work. Solid logic! Farke gave his team a better chance of winning the game by reacting to what he saw on the pitch. Same as Flick did with Barca when they ended up dry bumming us. It's not some new fangled concept pal, it's called football management.

Good point. Don't know what I was thinking advocating pro-active in-game management. What a dick!

You know that Michael Edwards and Eddie Howe are really close friends don’t you? It was reported that Eddie wanted him here as Sporting Director early on.

Just watching the Chelsea/Leeds game. Leeds 1-0 down at half time, Farke has made changes and altered the shape at half time, and now they’re on top. This is the kind of management people are talking about with regards to a plan b. Positive in-game management in response to things that aren’t working. What I wouldn’t give!

Unfortunately, our opponents seem to know his system inside and out as well.

But it’s purely opinion based isn’t it because we’re not privy to all the facts. What some call excuses are given as mitigating circumstances depending on your personal view.

I also think he has enough integrity to walk away if he feels he can’t take us any further. He’ll be hurting more than most and I’ve no doubt he’ll put the club before himself if he thinks it’s for the best.

I don’t think they’re that high a standard though, I think they’re the fundamentals expected from any football manager aren’t they? Find a system that works for the players Keep them fit Manage the workload Keep them motivated Adapt when things aren’t working Spend wisely I don’t think they’re ridiculous things to ask. I think they’re the basics. Neil Warnock was talking about a younger manager a while back (maybe Amorim) and said “you don’t go into a club and force players into a system that doesn’t fit them. You go in, see what you’ve got and build a system to get the best out of them.” Neil fucking Warnock! It’s management 101.

I don’t think it’s that simple. I want him to stay if he’s prepared to evolve. If he isn’t, which seems to be the case, I want him replaced. So, I would have to answer yes when it’s not that black & white (pun intended)

agree the polarised thinking doesn’t help but I think some of the defences of Eddie this season, and the excuses given are difficult to stomach. There’s a reason he is paid a stupid amount of money - because this is elite level sport. He is paid £millions to find solutions. In any other walk of life, top execs being paid millions are not afforded excuses or a year of abject mediocrity. Ultimately, it comes down to “has he tried literally everything to make this work?” And the answer is no, he has tried everything within a set system to make this work without accepting that the system may have to change. For me, that simply isn’t good enough. For others, it’s fine. I find it odd but we all see things differently. I accept that there were mitigating circumstances to a degree but the summer was almost a year ago, and we knew what to expect this season based on the last time we were in Europe. As others have pointed out, other teams lost a lot more than we did in terms of key players and most of them are above us in the league. Of course they didn’t have Europe to contend with but if European qualification is such a hindrance to us, we have a serious catch 22.

I think a good manager finds a way to adapt and make things work, especially when given as much time as Eddie has been allowed. It hasn’t been 10 games, it has been a pre-season and 60 games. You can either make excuses or find a solution. His solution has been to do the same thing with players who don’t fit his system. Does that sound like good management? If he had been anyone else, he’d have been binned long before now.