Holmesy

You say that's not a Howe problem but I don't think any of us know for sure - there definitely seems to have been a PL bias, which has had us paying premiums. Many of us have been championing a higher risk profile and targeting younger players with potential, and the noises from the club suggest we're going that way, which Eddie (whether reluctantly or not has agreed to). The truth is, we don't know whether previously Eddie has dictated the scouting strategy or it was set above him but I would lean toward the former. Regardless, I think the new direction is the best for the club.

The tables have turned though. You can't say we've spent more when £250m of that is essentially dust. We need to spend just to get back to top 8 while they'll spend hoping to consistently break into the top 4. Last summer has left us playing a massive game of catch-up.

I think this is the crux. The idea that Eddie has turned us around multiple times is false - he's done it once when he saved us from relegation. We've had drops in form but never a crisis like this. The confidence is his ability to do it this time comes from the momentum he has built and the cup win. But what we're looking at now is an unknown, a situation he hasn't navigated with us before and the only reference point we have is his time at Bournemouth. But, I'm not upset that they're giving him the chance to try and turn it around. We just have to get behind him and hope he can adapt. Let's just hope for a good summer, an injury-free pre-season and a few early, confidence-building results.

Can’t see any evolution in style beyond maybe integrating a proper #6 but hopefully we sign some excellent young talent for both the first team and to bolster the squad. I hope the window is far busier than Eddie has hinted at - we need a refresh. More goal threat is a must - we need goals from RW, striker and midfield. And we desperately need a new starting keeper. Hoping for 5-6 new signings.

They signed Alisson, Van Dijk, Keita, Shaqiri and Fabinho using the money from the Coutinho sale, transforming their team. And they kept faith with Klopp. I know what you’re trying to do but we’re talking about the use of transfer funds from selling key players. They did it well, Villa did it well, we and Spurs did it poorly.

“Injuries and Europe - mitigating circumstances for being in 15th”. Same same, but different.

Plenty on here have said that losing Isak is the reason for our poor campaign. Just look back through this thread, you’ll find loads. And it is always countered by the same argument - our defence has gone to shit, we can’t keep the ball, we wasted the replacement money etc. You have those who would defend Eddie even if he committed genocide, and those that recognise he was dealt a bad hand but magnified the impact of that bad hand through his own actions and inaction. We will likely never agree.

I was solely referring to teams who lost star players and improved by investing the funds wisely because that’s what was being discussed. And Liverpool did.

Liverpool kicked on post-Coutinho. It was the start of their ascent. Villa kicked on post-Grealish. Spurs squandered the Bale money in a similar fashion to us.

We were never going to sign a like-for-like striker but a lesser one who fits, combined with improvements in other areas - #10, #6, quality RW could have mitigated that loss and seen us kick on. As someone else has pointed out, if the whole system was so reliant on Isak that his loss means flirting with relegation, the whole system was flawed from the start.

Why was is it inevitable that we’d get worse? Other teams have banked big money from reluctantly selling their star players and improved due to strong transfer activity - Villa and Liverpool are the most noticeable but Brentford, Brighton and Bournemouth deserve a mention too. it wasn’t inevitable at all - we could have used the summer to kick on like others have but instead of doing a Liverpool/Villa, we did a Spurs - wasting the lot on poor, ill-fitting players.

100% agree. We know the ambitions of the club. It wouldn’t take long to analyse the playing styles of the most successful teams. That’s what we aim to emulate from top to bottom, combined with prudent player acquisitions, and every manager has to adhere to it but with their own stamp.

From a succession planning POV, we need to sign players with the attributes Eddie favours married with the capability to adapt to more progressive style should the next manager choose to play that way. It might be years off but then, this is football so it might not. If Eddie doesn't want to utilise that side of their game, at least it's there to be unlocked in future.

He's clearly got a lot of talent, and under a manager who plays to his strengths I can't see why he wouldn't do well. He's so clearly not an Eddie type striker in this rigid formation so it's becoming increasingly baffling why we actually signed him. Maybe we thought we could mould him and he would adapt but given Eddie likes runners and mobility, how exactly?

Yeah, I think that’s fair. What we saw yesterday was players and a way of playing that has previously served him well, and it makes sense to try and grind out a few results. It remains to be seen whether we try to evolve into a more technical passing team going forward. I haven’t seen any overt signs, and the quotes from Eddie don’t suggest that’s the plan but all we can do is hope, and see what happens. We just need to switch our Football Manager scouting settings from pace and stamina to passing, composure and technique. And our playing style from direct to possession. Simple!

Woltemade is a perfect example - very technical, capable of playing the kind of football we’re talking about. Doesn’t play. Osula, who is a chaotic runner is preferred over him. Osula epitomises the kind of football we do play, Woltemade epitomises the kind of football many of us feel we should, but don’t.

Same thing though - attacking prowess and dogged defending is not the same as possession-based control. We had 34% possession in the cup final. Against superior opposition, it’s more difficult to do granted, so trying to keep the ball away from the likes of Liverpool isn’t easy, but if we wanted to do it, we’d see it against Sunderland, Brentford, Brighton, Bournemouth etc. Instead, they do it against us.

I think you misunderstand what people mean by control - control is what Barca did to us in the second half of the second game - keeping the ball away from us, drawing us in, tiring us out. That isn’t our game, and our game is entirely dictated by Eddie. If we go back and re-watch the game against Chelsea, there will no doubt be some dogged defending but I’d put my house on there being no possession control in the manner we are talking about because that’s not our game and hasn’t been for the past 4.5 years.

Totally agree. The overwhelming feeling after the game was just relief. I think all of us looked at the starting lineup with a sense of disappointment and resignation but it got us the 3 points and Eddie deserves credit for that, even if the performance wasn’t pretty. But none of the concerns that have been discussed on here at length have been put to rest. If anything, they’ve been further reinforced. Hopefully the players take a bit of confidence from the win, and we can finish strong.

Yeah, it nearly killed us at 2-1. Delighted with the win obviously but the same problems were apparent- we’re clearly not coached to keep the ball, retain possession and play technical football. Team full of runners, booting the ball away instead of trying to keep it, poor passing etc. £300m on the bench, including arguably our most technical players + runners who aren’t performing. We are what we are under Eddie and that’s clearly not going to change any time soon - the comments about tall players and athletes emphasise that. Sign better runners and taller players and we might be ok but it’s only ever going to take us so far.

I’d love to see Nick Pope’s stats for just hoofing the ball clean out of play. He must be top of the table for it.

And actively looking to grow it rather than deliberately holding it back fro his own gain.

They wanted a yes man who was prepared to have his players bought from him and be told who needs to play, was the way I read it from what was being reported in the media. They've got the pockets to attract the very best but the very best don't want to go there because of those stipulations.

I'm wasted behind a screen. I could have been one of the great managers of our generation

Kind of makes sense to keep playing the ball to his feet in that case rather than punting high balls at him from deep. That's not a him problem, that's an everyone punting balls at him problem, which should be easy to solve - "lads, stop punting high balls to Nick. Play it to his feet."