Steven Taylor

[ohmelads]

Very harsh comparing him to Terry and Ferdinand. I don't see people comparing Milner to Beckham or N'Zogbia to Ribery and criticising them. Totally unfair.

 

It has been so difficult in recent years for a centre back to break into the England team that Carragher has given up trying. To suggest that Ferdinand and Woodgate broke in at a young age means nothing, very few top class defenders break through that early.

Micah Richards did. I'll reiterate. Taylor is decent. Not the top class centre half people seem intent on assuming he will be. The likes of Woodgate and Ferdinand were way better at his age, as is Richards.

I have no problem with the lad. I think he will do well if he gets his head sorted out and realises he needs to concentrate on himself rather than try to be captain courageous. He's fine, just not as good as those mentioned here at comparable ages. Richards doesnt seem to have been affected too greatly by life with mediocre centre halfs and a revolving managers door either.

 

Micah Richards has broken in at right back, where England are particularly weak, and moved inside during a friendly. He's a long way off ever being a first choice centre back for England. In recent years it's been the hardest position in the England team to break into, when a top class defender like Carragher has no hope of being a regular then you can hardly blame Taylor. I do agree Richards is better than Taylor, but I think Micah Richards will go on to be a world class player. I would also add that not all players progress at the same time, Drogba was still playing for Guingamp at the age of 25, and central defence is generally a position suited to older players.

 

I don't think Taylor will be world class but I think he's growing into a very good Premiership defender. I also think it's important to have some home grown players in your side, all of the most successful sides in Europe have home grown players, Man Utd throughout the 90s, Maldini at Milan, Casillas and Raul at Real Madrid, Puyol, Xavi, Iniesta and Messi at Barcelona, Carragher and Gerrard at Liverpool, Terry at Chelsea, and so on. If we put Taylor on the market I think we'd have no shortage of takers, but it'd be a big mistake. There's a good chance he'll hit his peak around 2015, think about that.

[JH]

Bunch of winkers!

 

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/sports/2006-05/24/xin_5705032410106892874915.jpg

[StrandedX02]

Judging from the postmatch comments about being extremely short in the back line, I doubt it's even a possibility we'd sell Taylor unless someone makes a flat-out stupid offer for him...but after yesterday I don't see how you could keep Cacapa out of the lineup for the forseeable future. I'd expect a back four of Enrique, Rozehnal, Cacapa, and a new signing at RB with Taylor on the bench from this point forward.

[Guest Pie]

Very harsh comparing him to Terry and Ferdinand. I don't see people comparing Milner to Beckham or N'Zogbia to Ribery and criticising them. Totally unfair.

 

It has been so difficult in recent years for a centre back to break into the England team that Carragher has given up trying. To suggest that Ferdinand and Woodgate broke in at a young age means nothing, very few top class defenders break through that early.

Micah Richards did. I'll reiterate. Taylor is decent. Not the top class centre half people seem intent on assuming he will be. The likes of Woodgate and Ferdinand were way better at his age, as is Richards.

I have no problem with the lad. I think he will do well if he gets his head sorted out and realises he needs to concentrate on himself rather than try to be captain courageous. He's fine, just not as good as those mentioned here at comparable ages. Richards doesnt seem to have been affected too greatly by life with mediocre centre halfs and a revolving managers door either.

 

Micah Richards has broken in at right back, where England are particularly weak, and moved inside during a friendly. He's a long way off ever being a first choice centre back for England. In recent years it's been the hardest position in the England team to break into, when a top class defender like Carragher has no hope of being a regular then you can hardly blame Taylor. I do agree Richards is better than Taylor, but I think Micah Richards will go on to be a world class player. I would also add that not all players progress at the same time, Drogba was still playing for Guingamp at the age of 25, and central defence is generally a position suited to older players.

 

I don't think Taylor will be world class but I think he's growing into a very good Premiership defender. I also think it's important to have some home grown players in your side, all of the most successful sides in Europe have home grown players, Man Utd throughout the 90s, Maldini at Milan, Casillas and Raul at Real Madrid, Puyol, Xavi, Iniesta and Messi at Barcelona, Carragher and Gerrard at Liverpool, Terry at Chelsea, and so on. If we put Taylor on the market I think we'd have no shortage of takers, but it'd be a big mistake. There's a good chance he'll hit his peak around 2015, think about that.

I have seen very little to suggest he is growing into a very good Premiership defender.

I would suggest that he has done enough to suggest he could be a good Premiership defender.

Of course there are players who develop late: Waddle, Beardsley, Wright and even John Robertson. However, generally International players have a steady rise. For every Waddle I'll give you a Roy Keane, Ryan Giggs, Wayne Rooney or Michael Owen. It's tenuous at best.

I wouldn't be upset if he went, however, I'd prefer he stayed. One things certain, Richards is a country mile better. He is also younger, played with average players and different managers. The point being that we do tend to cling to hope rather know for certain that we have a player on our hands. With the likes of Richards, there is no doubt.

 

[Cajun]

Thing is he looks like he could be on the verge of breaking into the England squad, he is U21 captain now and McLaren has made some very encouraging comments about his potential future as a full international.

 

I would suggest there are more claiming Taylor is poor or a clown than their are those claiming him to be the next John Terry.

[Guest Pie]

Thing is he looks like he could be on the verge of breaking into the England squad, he is U21 captain now and McLaren has made some very encouraging comments about his potential future as a full international.

 

I would suggest there are more claiming Taylor is poor or a clown than their are those claiming him to be the next John Terry.

He's neither. In fact, at present he is very much between the two.

[Shak]

Thing is he looks like he could be on the verge of breaking into the England squad, he is U21 captain now and McLaren has made some very encouraging comments about his potential future as a full international.

 

I would suggest there are more claiming Taylor is poor or a clown than their are those claiming him to be the next John Terry.

He's neither. In fact, at present he is very much between the two.

 

Well thank you Captain Obvious. 

[Guest Pie]

Thing is he looks like he could be on the verge of breaking into the England squad, he is U21 captain now and McLaren has made some very encouraging comments about his potential future as a full international.

 

I would suggest there are more claiming Taylor is poor or a clown than their are those claiming him to be the next John Terry.

He's neither. In fact, at present he is very much between the two.

 

Well thank you Captain Obvious. 

Cheers

[merlin]

Very harsh comparing him to Terry and Ferdinand. I don't see people comparing Milner to Beckham or N'Zogbia to Ribery and criticising them. Totally unfair.

 

It has been so difficult in recent years for a centre back to break into the England team that Carragher has given up trying. To suggest that Ferdinand and Woodgate broke in at a young age means nothing, very few top class defenders break through that early.

Micah Richards did. I'll reiterate. Taylor is decent. Not the top class centre half people seem intent on assuming he will be. The likes of Woodgate and Ferdinand were way better at his age, as is Richards.

I have no problem with the lad. I think he will do well if he gets his head sorted out and realises he needs to concentrate on himself rather than try to be captain courageous. He's fine, just not as good as those mentioned here at comparable ages. Richards doesnt seem to have been affected too greatly by life with mediocre centre halfs and a revolving managers door either.

 

Micah Richards has broken in at right back, where England are particularly weak, and moved inside during a friendly. He's a long way off ever being a first choice centre back for England. In recent years it's been the hardest position in the England team to break into, when a top class defender like Carragher has no hope of being a regular then you can hardly blame Taylor. I do agree Richards is better than Taylor, but I think Micah Richards will go on to be a world class player. I would also add that not all players progress at the same time, Drogba was still playing for Guingamp at the age of 25, and central defence is generally a position suited to older players.

 

I don't think Taylor will be world class but I think he's growing into a very good Premiership defender. I also think it's important to have some home grown players in your side, all of the most successful sides in Europe have home grown players, Man Utd throughout the 90s, Maldini at Milan, Casillas and Raul at Real Madrid, Puyol, Xavi, Iniesta and Messi at Barcelona, Carragher and Gerrard at Liverpool, Terry at Chelsea, and so on. If we put Taylor on the market I think we'd have no shortage of takers, but it'd be a big mistake. There's a good chance he'll hit his peak around 2015, think about that.

I have seen very little to suggest he is growing into a very good Premiership defender.

I would suggest that he has done enough to suggest he could be a good Premiership defender.

Of course there are players who develop late: Waddle, Beardsley, Wright and even John Robertson. However, generally International players have a steady rise. For every Waddle I'll give you a Roy Keane, Ryan Giggs, Wayne Rooney or Michael Owen. It's tenuous at best.

I wouldn't be upset if he went, however, I'd prefer he stayed. One things certain, Richards is a country mile better. He is also younger, played with average players and different managers. The point being that we do tend to cling to hope rather know for certain that we have a player on our hands. With the likes of Richards, there is no doubt.

 

 

I tend to agree with this view - Taylor is at an age when he should be at least 75% of the finished article - the other 25% comes with experience, esp in a central defender.

I was quite shocked at how easily Taylor was caught by Mido on Sunday and he doesn't have the necessary turn of speed(demonstrated by Capaca when he came on), OR the comfort on the ball that Rozenhal has - these are things that should already be there at his age.

 

We are not in a postion to sell him, though, because of the injury situation AND unless/until there is a better player younger than the ones we already have, to take his place.

 

People using his age as a defence are probably the ones who use the same arguments to defend Martins, and the same issues apply to Martins as they do to Taylor, i.e. the basics should already be there.

Beardsley was 22 when he came to Newcastle, and his talent was there for all to see ; he did get a bit more cunning as he got older, but he was a great player at 22 - you cannot say this about either Taylor or Martins, and many fans also make excuses for Taylor because he is a Geordie - that cannot be allowed to enter the equation, as much as we'd like it to.

[Guest Coin]

I think that Taylor has potential... i don't think anyone doubts that. How much better he will get is anyone's guess.

 

However, unless we get an offer of silly money, I feel we shouldn't sell him. Looking at the market, we'd probably have to pay 10 mil to get a good english defender. Look at curtis davies and the price tags being bandied around. And he's not even that good. Now we have good young one.. FOR FREE.

 

I don't want us to have to pay 15 mil in the future to 'bring him home'

[sicsfingeredmong]

Yes, imo he's the weak link in our central defensive ranks.

 

The year of missed progression, thanks to Clueless' mishandling of his shoulder injury, was at the time - ie. last season - relevant factor behind his stagnation but's it's now become a distant excuse imo.

 

With the new arrivals, in the form of Cacapa/Faye etc, he'll become the forgotten man if he doesn't eradicate the mistakes. Big Sam doesn't take defensive fools lightly, as evidenced with Bramble's departure, and i think he'll be offloaded in January.

 

Crossroads period for him imo.

[Zero]

I won't sell Taylor unless he reaches 26.

I understand why people dislike him or claiming him error-prone and playing like a clown

but I think he's different---it isn't the same case as Bramble.

 

Bramble's error-prone is due to his lack of concentration and composure which can never be cured, however,

Taylor's error prone is more due to he's trying too much new techniques---his determination to improve outweighs a defender's responsibilities.

And I guess that's what Big Sam told Taylor to do---try more new things and improve now under the guidance of Capaca and Rozehnal, or else you are really finished.

 

A good example is you should able to observe his playing style has changed a bit, he's more eager to hold up the ball and control the rythem rather than scramble it out like Bramble and O'Brien. That's a good sign to me. And if this season's target is just a top six finish, why not give him a year to improve then? In crucial cup matches we can rely on Capaca and Rozehnal.

[buzza]

"I won't sell Taylor unless he reaches 26"

 

Genocide for all over twenty-sixes!! (runs for cover..)

[Guest jamesmartinsmith]

Makes a lot of basic mistakes.

 

agreed if they offered 7 million plus i would sell him as long as we sign faye this week

No way.

 

I wouldn't sell him unless more than £17 million was offered.

[Guest Pie]

Makes a lot of basic mistakes.

 

agreed if they offered 7 million plus i would sell him as long as we sign faye this week

No way.

 

I wouldn't sell him unless more than £17 million was offered.

You are mental. Seriously. 

[Guest alex]

Vastly overrated imo.

[jimmymag]

We really are in trouble if some "supporters" believe that Taylor isn't good enough for us!

[Guest Pie]

We really are in trouble if some "supporters" believe that Taylor isn't good enough for us!

Decent Premiership club (prone to shooting itself in the foot) has a decent Premiership player (prone to dropping the odd clanger). Ceteris paribus. Personally I'd rather get away from that Jimmy and demand better. Much as I am derided for pointing out the failings of our young players, well it's just that they arent very good. Not bad, just not going to take us very far. We need better if we intend to end the current state of mediocrity, particularly when other teams of similar size are investing so heavily in (or already have) better.

Decent squad players. That's what they should be. If those two are in the first team next year then we can conclude the manager and owner have very little ambition.

[Guest Knightrider]

Taylor is 21 people and has a lot to his game that is already very good, in time and with experience providing he works hard, stays fit and shows the right attitude, there is no reason why he can't become a top-class defender, others have, often after the age of 25....

 

People say he's had an awful start to the season, I've picked out as many mistakes by Rozzy who seems to have made a great start....

[Guest Pie]

Taylor is 21 people and has a lot to his game that is already very good, in time and with experience providing he works hard, stays fit and shows the right attitude, there is no reason why he can't become a top-class defender, others have, often after the age of 25....

 

People say he's had an awful start to the season, I've picked out as many mistakes by Rozzy who seems to have made a great start....

You made the first and last bits up tbh

[Guest alex]

I think he needs to start learning and start learning quick. He's young - yes, but he's had (iirc) over 70 starts for the first team now. What I am getting at is, he needs to know what his strengths are and what his weaknesses are and use this knowledge to be the best player he can be. He isn't slow but he isn't blessed with lightning pace either, so he needs to start reading the game a bit better. I also think he thinks he's a better footballer than he is and this sometimes gets him into trouble. I think he's a bit better than your average 'safety first' hoof it into the stands, typical English defender but he needs know when to play and when to just clear the ball. He's also rash at times (like on Sunday) and I know he's young but he'll only improve if he learns from these mistakes. As for his strengths - he is a big, strong, powerful lad and I think he needs to be the centre-half who normally attacks the high balls. I think sometimes he fancies himself as the one who is sweeping - not his game imo. Basically, he needs to play to his strengths and not believe his own press / get carried away by the England call-up, etc.

[Guest Knightrider]

I think he needs to start learning and start learning quick. He's young - yes, but he's had (iirc) over 70 starts for the first team now. What I am getting at is, he needs to know what his strengths are and what his weaknesses are and use this knowledge to be the best player he can be. He isn't slow but he isn't blessed with lightning pace either, so he needs to start reading the game a bit better. I also think he thinks he's a better footballer than he is and this sometimes gets him into trouble. I think he's a bit better than your average 'safety first' hoof it into the stands, typical English defender but he needs know when to play and when to just clear the ball. He's also rash at times (like on Sunday) and I know he's young but he'll only improve if he learns from these mistakes. As for his strengths - he is a big, strong, powerful lad and I think he needs to be the centre-half who normally attacks the high balls. I think sometimes he fancies himself as the one who is sweeping - not his game imo. Basically, he needs to play to his strengths and not believe his own press / get carried away by the England call-up, etc.

 

Agree with most of that, especially reading of the game, if he does that just a little bit more, half the issues that effect him or are perceived to effect him will go away because really, that's what being a defender is all about. However not many 21 year-olds are excellent readers of the game, this can only come with good coaching, guidance and experience, something Taylor has lacked or lacks.

 

I think he needs to be the lead defender, the defender who attacks the ball, or pushes up, who gets on the ball and comes out with it, partnered with someone who stands off and reads play, who will organise and guide from his position. I'm not sure Rozzy is that player, Maybe Cacapa is?

 

Anyway we shouldn't be too hard on Taylor, we should indeed be encouraged that we have a young defender with his talent or potential on our books. I guarantee if we put him on the market tomorrow for say £5m, Arsenal, Man Utd, Chelsea, Spurs and Liverpool would all show an interest because there aren't many English defenders with his ability and potential around.

 

I'm sick of seeing his every mistake or flaw highlighted and then exaggerated, it used to be his good points  that got exaggerated but it seems he doesn't have any anymore, even being a Geordie gets picked up on and used against him.

 

Watch him for England under 21s, he's immense. He's had a few moments like for them, a red card, an own goal and some rash decisions but in general whenever I've seen him he's been head and shoulders the best defender on the pitch and showed real potential. People were wanking over Richards play for England the other night. I saw Taylor for the under 21s bring the ball out of defence, sidestep a few players, play the ball to the right flank, get himself in the box and then send a header from the resulting cross just over. He's a really good footballer, never mind defending. People need to stop expecting too much and being so negative about a bairn's game (in football terms).

[Cajun]

I think he needs to start learning and start learning quick. He's young - yes, but he's had (iirc) over 70 starts for the first team now. What I am getting at is, he needs to know what his strengths are and what his weaknesses are and use this knowledge to be the best player he can be. He isn't slow but he isn't blessed with lightning pace either, so he needs to start reading the game a bit better. I also think he thinks he's a better footballer than he is and this sometimes gets him into trouble. I think he's a bit better than your average 'safety first' hoof it into the stands, typical English defender but he needs know when to play and when to just clear the ball. He's also rash at times (like on Sunday) and I know he's young but he'll only improve if he learns from these mistakes. As for his strengths - he is a big, strong, powerful lad and I think he needs to be the centre-half who normally attacks the high balls. I think sometimes he fancies himself as the one who is sweeping - not his game imo. Basically, he needs to play to his strengths and not believe his own press / get carried away by the England call-up, etc.

 

Good post, this is all where an experienced quality partner can help. Can you imagine Taylor taking much notice of advice given to him by Bramble for example? Probably 10mins after he has just pulled Bramble out of the shit for a mistake he has made..

 

Hopefully with a better coaching set up and better players alongisde him he will be pulled up on his overconfidence and will be taught when to play it and when to hoof it. Still plenty of time left for this lad to learn.

[Cajun]

I think he needs to start learning and start learning quick. He's young - yes, but he's had (iirc) over 70 starts for the first team now. What I am getting at is, he needs to know what his strengths are and what his weaknesses are and use this knowledge to be the best player he can be. He isn't slow but he isn't blessed with lightning pace either, so he needs to start reading the game a bit better. I also think he thinks he's a better footballer than he is and this sometimes gets him into trouble. I think he's a bit better than your average 'safety first' hoof it into the stands, typical English defender but he needs know when to play and when to just clear the ball. He's also rash at times (like on Sunday) and I know he's young but he'll only improve if he learns from these mistakes. As for his strengths - he is a big, strong, powerful lad and I think he needs to be the centre-half who normally attacks the high balls. I think sometimes he fancies himself as the one who is sweeping - not his game imo. Basically, he needs to play to his strengths and not believe his own press / get carried away by the England call-up, etc.

 

Agree with most of that, especially reading of the game, if he does that just a little bit more, half the issues that effect him or are perceived to effect him will go away because really, that's what being a defender is all about. However not many 21 year-olds are excellent readers of the game, this can only come with good coaching, guidance and experience, something Taylor has lacked or lacks.

 

I think he needs to be the lead defender, the defender who attacks the ball, or pushes up, who gets on the ball and comes out with it, partnered with someone who stands off and reads play, who will organise and guide from his position. I'm not sure Rozzy is that player, Maybe Cacapa is?

 

Anyway we shouldn't be too hard on Taylor, we should indeed be encouraged that we have a young defender with his talent or potential on our books. I guarantee if we put him on the market tomorrow for say £5m, Arsenal, Man Utd, Chelsea, Spurs and Liverpool would all show an interest because there aren't many English defenders with his ability and potential around.

 

I'm sick of seeing his every mistake or flaw highlighted and then exaggerated, it used to be his good points  that got exaggerated but it seems he doesn't have any anymore, even being a Geordie gets picked up on and used against him.

 

Watch him for England under 21s, he's immense. He's had a few moments like for them, a red card, an own goal and some rash decisions but in general whenever I've seen him he's been head and shoulders the best defender on the pitch and showed real potential. People were wanking over Richards play for England the other night. I saw Taylor for the under 21s bring the ball out of defence, sidestep a few players, play the ball to the right flank, get himself in the box and then send a header from the resulting cross just over. He's a really good footballer, never mind defending. People need to stop expecting too much and being so negative about a bairn's game (in football terms).

 

Problem is (and people have acknowledged they do this before) when people start to overrate a player there is a group who will decide they need to balance it out and go the other way. Half the time they don't even believe what they are saying but its obvious when they are doing it because the first things they come out with are "well people are claiming him to be the next John Terry" etc..

[Guest Knightrider]

I think his actual biggest flaw is trying to be too clever, the manager pin pointed this when he picked up an injury in a friendly, when all he had to do was put it out of play. This attitude permeates every part of his game at the moment, whether it be a sly push, tug, or over playing the ball when coming out with it. Fix that and you fix a lot of problems. Add some experience alongside him, good coaching and give him a few years to mature, then we'll all be in a much better position to judge.