"Shepherd was not a good chairman" - Sibierski

[Colos Short and Curlies]

Robson did need to go and the majority of fans recognized it at the time. Looking back with rose tinted glasses won't change that. Although Shephard was not blameless in much that went on at the Toon, I'd point the finger at a certain group of players particularly around the time BR was sacked.

 

Take off the rose tinted glasses yourself and you'll see that Robson became a lame duck the day Shepherd went in front of the press to inform everybody that Robson was not having his contract renewed, the minute he did that was the minute that the players knew they'd be at the club longer than the manager, the manager had lost all authority in the same way as a certain Mr Ferguson had at Man U when he announced that he was going to retire.  Man U were struggling until he changed his mind and said he'd remain as manager of Man U.

 

Most people predicted that Robson wouldn't have the players on his side as soon as the announcement was made.

 

Although it didn't need saying by Fred, I'm sure that it was fairly well known that it was Bobby's last season anyway

[NE5]

Shepherd wasn't all that bad, he just lost it around the time he sacked Robson (which wasn't his idea) and couldn't turn it around after that.

 

Would any of our transfers have been that different this season if Shepherd had still been here? After all he was the one who appointed Allardyce.

 

Would the debt have played a part?

 

Yes it would, but he still would have spent the same or maybe even more than we did this summer with the view of clearing a large chunk of the debt off over the next few years with the extra income from the tv deals, Ashley has paid off £30 million which seems to be under high interest and that's what Shepherd would have knocked off over the next few years.

 

Also Allardyce has said we'll have to wait and see if this board backs him as much as Shepherd said he would this summer.

 

I'm not saying I still want Shepherd here btw as I don't, his time had come to an end and I think he'd taken us as far as he could, it's wide of the mark to just say he was a shit chairman for us though.

 

And, at THIS point ............

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm saying.......NOWT !!!!

 

[NE5]

For those of you who can't remember, robson deserved to go as he was unable to motivate the team and neede to be replaced. Bad timing as it should have been done much earlier but necessary.

 

To say that it's FS's fault that we have won nothing is utter bollocks as there is plenty of blame to around and plenty of people who should be blamed....not least the players.

 

.........needless to say, I don't think any of the directors can be blamed for bottling numerous situations and big games, at least not from where I'm sitting ....... 

 

Still, I'm sure some people WILL dispute this, and I can think of one or two right now who would, without a shadow of doubt  mackems.gif

[NE5]

Robson did need to go and the majority of fans recognized it at the time. Looking back with rose tinted glasses won't change that. Although Shephard was not blameless in much that went on at the Toon, I'd point the finger at a certain group of players particularly around the time BR was sacked.

 

Take off the rose tinted glasses yourself and you'll see that Robson became a lame duck the day Shepherd went in front of the press to inform everybody that Robson was not having his contract renewed, the minute he did that was the minute that the players knew they'd be at the club longer than the manager, the manager had lost all authority in the same way as a certain Mr Ferguson had at Man U when he announced that he was going to retire.  Man U were struggling until he changed his mind and said he'd remain as manager of Man U.

 

Most people predicted that Robson wouldn't have the players on his side as soon as the announcement was made.

 

and the chairman at the time of our only 3 consecutive top 5 finishes in 50 years is who ?

 

Take off your rose tinted specs, stop re-writing history, and answer the question ? And prove that you are a long term supporter as you keep saying.

 

You can also tell us how many of his predecessors since the 1950's presided over even one top 5 finish ?

 

I don't expect facts to make any impression on your "opinion" as usual.

 

 

[OzzieMandias]

What colour specs do you need to see any success as all Shepherd's doing, and any failure as someone else's fault?

[Guest jimmy1982]

Obviously Freddy genuinely wanted to make nufc successful, but ultimately he was out of depth, just like two of the managers he appointed were.

 

Biggest mistake: replacing Robson with Souness and giving him all that money to waste. That alone is unforgivable. Fair enough Robson had to go, but Souness??? And you can say nobody better wanted the job - why did they not want to manage a club with 50,000 home crowds, recent Champs League experience, players like Shearer, Robert, Given, Bellamy etc etc already on the books? You have to look at the owners.

 

With hindsight I also look at that News of the World 'Toongate' thing as a bit of a watershed incident - the moment when the post '92 optimism turned into pre-Robson gloom (barring the odd Wembley adventure). Even during the Robson revival, people's attitudes had pretty much been irrevocably changed by all that. You might say why is that such a big deal - after all, toon supporters (and most other football fans) are used to false dawns and disappointment. Well the reason is that it is an absolute crime that we just fell away after 96-97. Dalglish and his terrible signings have to take a lot of the blame for that. But Freddy was supposedly the captain of the ship - it has to be his head on the block, but I think the NOTW thing, along with how people got shunted out of their seats a while after, left alot of people disenchanted and sour. And didn't Keegan say he left in large part because of the owners? Well thats Freddy again. Keegan was the best thing that had happened for donkeys, they should have done whatever he wanted to keep him happy, just like Man U directors used to do whatever Fergie wanted  - how can Sheperd not give Keegan what he wanted and just let him walk away, and then give Souness 50 million? (i know that there's more money in football nowadays, but the point still stands). Totally incompetent.

 

Whether it was Douglas Hall or Freddy making these decisions is immaterial - Freddy was the official chairman, the figurehead of the club, the one to be held responsible. He used to love the limelight, often coming out with cringe-worthy "I'm from Byker me man" twaddle while in it, but he also had a responsibility to the money that WE funded the transfers with, and it would have been up to him to tell Hall to butt out or either walk away before more damage was done. In the end he's been forced out by Mike Ashley.

 

And of course bottling big matches like Partisan at home and Marseille away can't be blamed on the chairman, it would be ludicrous to suggest otherwise. But victories in those games would have been papering over the cracks I reckon.

 

And one more thing... If Roeder and Shearer hadn't saved us from relegation, would people still be defending Sheperd with us 30-50 million in debt, with a massive half-full ground and massive costs, playing in the 1st division with no Sky TV money?

 

Of course he did do some good things - signing Woodgate (unlucky) and those top five finishes spring to mind. Was that enough a) given the resources we as a club had in that time, and b) to make up for the unsavoury things he put us through (NOTW, coming out with statements about not caring about lower league clubs as long as we were alright)?

 

I don't hate Sheperd as a bloke because I don't know him. I just wish he'd never been chairman of our club and I'm glad he's gone.

 

[NE5]

What colour specs do you need to see any success as all Shepherd's doing, and any failure as someone else's fault?

 

different coloured ones than the ones you wore when you backed Souness' changes to the club

 

 

[OzzieMandias]

Obviously Freddy genuinely wanted to make nufc successful, but ultimately he was out of depth, just like two of the managers he appointed were.

 

Just like three out of his four mangerial appointments, really.

[Baggio]

Obviously Freddy genuinely wanted to make nufc successful, but ultimately he was out of depth, just like two of the managers he appointed were.

 

Biggest mistake: replacing Robson with Souness and giving him all that money to waste. That alone is unforgivable. Fair enough Robson had to go, but Souness??? And you can say nobody better wanted the job - why did they not want to manage a club with 50,000 home crowds, recent Champs League experience, players like Shearer, Robert, Given, Bellamy etc etc already on the books? You have to look at the owners.

 

With hindsight I also look at that News of the World 'Toongate' thing as a bit of a watershed incident - the moment when the post '92 optimism turned into pre-Robson gloom (barring the odd Wembley adventure). Even during the Robson revival, people's attitudes had pretty much been irrevocably changed by all that. You might say why is that such a big deal - after all, toon supporters (and most other football fans) are used to false dawns and disappointment. Well the reason is that it is an absolute crime that we just fell away after 96-97. Dalglish and his terrible signings have to take a lot of the blame for that. But Freddy was supposedly the captain of the ship - it has to be his head on the block, but I think the NOTW thing, along with how people got shunted out of their seats a while after, left alot of people disenchanted and sour. And didn't Keegan say he left in large part because of the owners? Well thats Freddy again. Keegan was the best thing that had happened for donkeys, they should have done whatever he wanted to keep him happy, just like Man U directors used to do whatever Fergie wanted  - how can Sheperd not give Keegan what he wanted and just let him walk away, and then give Souness 50 million? (i know that there's more money in football nowadays, but the point still stands). Totally incompetent.

 

Whether it was Douglas Hall or Freddy making these decisions is immaterial - Freddy was the official chairman, the figurehead of the club, the one to be held responsible. He used to love the limelight, often coming out with cringe-worthy "I'm from Byker me man" twaddle while in it, but he also had a responsibility to the money that WE funded the transfers with, and it would have been up to him to tell Hall to butt out or either walk away before more damage was done. In the end he's been forced out by Mike Ashley.

 

And of course bottling big matches like Partisan at home and Marseille away can't be blamed on the chairman, it would be ludicrous to suggest otherwise. But victories in those games would have been papering over the cracks I reckon.

 

And one more thing... If Roeder and Shearer hadn't saved us from relegation, would people still be defending Sheperd with us 30-50 million in debt, with a massive half-full ground and massive costs, playing in the 1st division with no Sky TV money?

 

Of course he did do some good things - signing Woodgate (unlucky) and those top five finishes spring to mind. Was that enough a) given the resources we as a club had in that time, and b) to make up for the unsavoury things he put us through (NOTW, coming out with statements about not caring about lower league clubs as long as we were alright)?

 

I don't hate Sheperd as a bloke because I don't know him. I just wish he'd never been chairman of our club and I'm glad he's gone.

 

 

Shepherd wasn't even chairman when Keegan walked so it's a bit harsh to blame that on him!

[NE5]

Obviously Freddy genuinely wanted to make nufc successful, but ultimately he was out of depth, just like two of the managers he appointed were.

 

Biggest mistake: replacing Robson with Souness and giving him all that money to waste. That alone is unforgivable. Fair enough Robson had to go, but Souness??? And you can say nobody better wanted the job - why did they not want to manage a club with 50,000 home crowds, recent Champs League experience, players like Shearer, Robert, Given, Bellamy etc etc already on the books? You have to look at the owners.

 

With hindsight I also look at that News of the World 'Toongate' thing as a bit of a watershed incident - the moment when the post '92 optimism turned into pre-Robson gloom (barring the odd Wembley adventure). Even during the Robson revival, people's attitudes had pretty much been irrevocably changed by all that. You might say why is that such a big deal - after all, toon supporters (and most other football fans) are used to false dawns and disappointment. Well the reason is that it is an absolute crime that we just fell away after 96-97. Dalglish and his terrible signings have to take a lot of the blame for that. But Freddy was supposedly the captain of the ship - it has to be his head on the block, but I think the NOTW thing, along with how people got shunted out of their seats a while after, left alot of people disenchanted and sour. And didn't Keegan say he left in large part because of the owners? Well thats Freddy again. Keegan was the best thing that had happened for donkeys, they should have done whatever he wanted to keep him happy, just like Man U directors used to do whatever Fergie wanted  - how can Sheperd not give Keegan what he wanted and just let him walk away, and then give Souness 50 million? (i know that there's more money in football nowadays, but the point still stands). Totally incompetent.

 

Whether it was Douglas Hall or Freddy making these decisions is immaterial - Freddy was the official chairman, the figurehead of the club, the one to be held responsible. He used to love the limelight, often coming out with cringe-worthy "I'm from Byker me man" twaddle while in it, but he also had a responsibility to the money that WE funded the transfers with, and it would have been up to him to tell Hall to butt out or either walk away before more damage was done. In the end he's been forced out by Mike Ashley.

 

And of course bottling big matches like Partisan at home and Marseille away can't be blamed on the chairman, it would be ludicrous to suggest otherwise. But victories in those games would have been papering over the cracks I reckon.

 

And one more thing... If Roeder and Shearer hadn't saved us from relegation, would people still be defending Sheperd with us 30-50 million in debt, with a massive half-full ground and massive costs, playing in the 1st division with no Sky TV money?

 

Of course he did do some good things - signing Woodgate (unlucky) and those top five finishes spring to mind. Was that enough a) given the resources we as a club had in that time, and b) to make up for the unsavoury things he put us through (NOTW, coming out with statements about not caring about lower league clubs as long as we were alright)?

 

I don't hate Sheperd as a bloke because I don't know him. I just wish he'd never been chairman of our club and I'm glad he's gone.

 

 

some good points, a few I don't agree with. But you fall down when you quote the standard "our money" line mate. It isn't our money, its the clubs money. You choose to spend it on the club, and from that point the club owns the money and chooses what to do with it, like anything else you buy.

 

Furthermore, for decades before the Halls and Shepherd, WE spent OUR money on the club just like now, and the directors and chairman DIDN'T spend it on players. The only money they spent on players was money generally gained from selliing our best players on average replacements, hence it disappeared down a big black hole, or elsewhere.

 

They didn't even attempt to capitalise on the clubs support by buying more quality players when we won the Fairs Cup, or qualified for europe on the ONE occasiion we finished in the top 5 in all those years.

 

 

[Baggio]

Obviously Freddy genuinely wanted to make nufc successful, but ultimately he was out of depth, just like two of the managers he appointed were.

 

Just like three out of his four mangerial appointments, really.

 

I don't remember many moaning about Gullit at the time, hindsight is great though.

 

 

[Guest jimmy1982]

Shepherd wasn't even chairman when Keegan walked so it's a bit harsh to blame that on him!

 

By jove you're right!

 

Must have been getting carried away there... Ok I'll let him off with that one!

 

He was on the board and a major decision maker at that time wasn't he?

[Baggio]

Shepherd wasn't even chairman when Keegan walked so it's a bit harsh to blame that on him!

 

By jove you're right!

 

Must have been getting carried away there... Ok I'll let him off with that one!

 

He was on the board and a major decision maker at that time wasn't he?

 

He was on the board but I don't think any money would have kept Keegan, the club had to sell some players to clear themselves of debt before becoming a PLC which pissed him off, he also made it clear he was going at the end of the season anyway, the club becoming a PLC helped speed up the process.

 

He also broke the World record transfer fee in signing Shearer a few months earlier so he was backed.

[NE5]

Obviously Freddy genuinely wanted to make nufc successful, but ultimately he was out of depth, just like two of the managers he appointed were.

 

Just like three out of his four mangerial appointments, really.

 

I don't remember many moaning about Gullit at the time, hindsight is great though.

 

 

Absolutely correct. In fact, he had the support of the vast majority of supporters.

 

Ozzie likes his hindsight, when it suits him. He even side steps the fact that he backed the changes Souness' made to the club, but won't confirm that they have now been for the worst.

 

I don't suppose Ozzie will think Gullit was out of his depth when he won the FA Cup at Chelsea, and put together a team that won more under Vialli. Unless he can let us all in on his bombproof secret to select a winning manager every time  mackems.gif

 

 

 

[NE5]

Shepherd wasn't even chairman when Keegan walked so it's a bit harsh to blame that on him!

 

By jove you're right!

 

Must have been getting carried away there... Ok I'll let him off with that one!

 

He was on the board and a major decision maker at that time wasn't he?

 

you're right. The BOARD make these major decisions collectively, and it was Hall Jnr, Shepherd and Fletcher who chose Keegan when he was appointed. The chairman at the time was outvoted by his board members, but strangely gets the credit for it.

 

 

[Baggio]

Shepherd wasn't even chairman when Keegan walked so it's a bit harsh to blame that on him!

 

By jove you're right!

 

Must have been getting carried away there... Ok I'll let him off with that one!

 

He was on the board and a major decision maker at that time wasn't he?

 

you're right. The BOARD make these major decisions collectively, and it was Hall Jnr, Shepherd and Fletcher who chose Keegan when he was appointed. The chairman at the time was outvoted by his board members, but strangely gets the credit for it.

 

 

 

He wasn't outvoted as SJH still had the final say, they did twist his arm though.

[NE5]

Shepherd wasn't even chairman when Keegan walked so it's a bit harsh to blame that on him!

 

By jove you're right!

 

Must have been getting carried away there... Ok I'll let him off with that one!

 

He was on the board and a major decision maker at that time wasn't he?

 

you're right. The BOARD make these major decisions collectively, and it was Hall Jnr, Shepherd and Fletcher who chose Keegan when he was appointed. The chairman at the time was outvoted by his board members, but strangely gets the credit for it.

 

 

 

He wasn't outvoted as SJH still had the final say, they did twist his arm though.

 

They twisted if quite violently by all accounts !!!

 

He certainly didn't want to get rid of Ardiles

 

 

[Guest Dan]

shepherd appointed souness and roeder. if he had a remote clue about the game he wouldn't have hired two such useless managers.

[Baggio]

Shepherd wasn't even chairman when Keegan walked so it's a bit harsh to blame that on him!

 

By jove you're right!

 

Must have been getting carried away there... Ok I'll let him off with that one!

 

He was on the board and a major decision maker at that time wasn't he?

 

you're right. The BOARD make these major decisions collectively, and it was Hall Jnr, Shepherd and Fletcher who chose Keegan when he was appointed. The chairman at the time was outvoted by his board members, but strangely gets the credit for it.

 

 

 

He wasn't outvoted as SJH still had the final say, they did twist his arm though.

 

They twisted if quite violently by all accounts !!!

 

He certainly didn't want to get rid of Ardiles

 

 

 

All correct according to Keegan, he didn't want to sack Ardiles because he was a friend and had backed him in the press rather than thinking he was a capable manager though.

 

Serious question then NE5 - Do you think Shepherd had taken the club as far as he could and the time was right for a change in the board?

[Dokko]

Shepherd wasn't even chairman when Keegan walked so it's a bit harsh to blame that on him!

 

By jove you're right!

 

Must have been getting carried away there... Ok I'll let him off with that one!

 

He was on the board and a major decision maker at that time wasn't he?

 

you're right. The BOARD make these major decisions collectively, and it was Hall Jnr, Shepherd and Fletcher who chose Keegan when he was appointed. The chairman at the time was outvoted by his board members, but strangely gets the credit for it.

 

 

 

He wasn't outvoted as SJH still had the final say, they did twist his arm though.

 

They twisted if quite violently by all accounts !!!

 

He certainly didn't want to get rid of Ardiles

 

 

 

All correct according to Keegan, he didn't want to sack Ardiles because he was a friend and had backed him in the press rather than thinking he was a capable manager though.

 

Serious question then NE5 - Do you think Shepherd had taken the club as far as he could and the time was right for a change in the board?

 

For me the timing of the sacking of Roeder, the appointment of Sam, the hounding of the FA for the £10m compo for Owen and the plans for the regeneration of SJP and its surroundings suggests maybe, just maybe the old fool had finally started to get things right.

 

We'll never know now, but his mistakes were far too many, that accumulating in £80m worth and relatively nothing to show for it.

 

 

[Guest jimmy1982]

 

 

some good points, a few I don't agree with. But you fall down when you quote the standard "our money" line mate. It isn't our money, its the clubs money. You choose to spend it on the club, and from that point the club owns the money and chooses what to do with it, like anything else you buy.

 

Furthermore, for decades before the Halls and Shepherd, WE spent OUR money on the club just like now, and the directors and chairman DIDN'T spend it on players. The only money they spent on players was money generally gained from selliing our best players on average replacements, hence it disappeared down a big black hole, or elsewhere.

 

They didn't even attempt to capitalise on the clubs support by buying more quality players when we won the Fairs Cup, or qualified for europe on the ONE occasiion we finished in the top 5 in all those years.

 

 

 

Alright, yep I can appreciate what you're saying there, but I've thought about that a fair bit I'm not sure if I agree with it... A football club is supposed to be a bit different isn't it? Alright, officially, technically, legally, whatever you want to call it, once the money is given to them then they own it. Now I might be getting all romantic here but I reckon the owners have a responsibilty to US and pretty much us alone once we pay our money. When we pay I think we are all paying for more than a 90 minute spectacle, we are paying to be part of the club. Morally at least, we can consider ourselves part of the club and therefore the club have a responsiblity to us, so really it is still our money. When we go to the pictures and pay to watch a film, the money is no longer ours, but this is different surely??? Is that just naivety?

 

I'm not old enough to remeber what happened to us before the late eighties/early nineties so you know more about it than me from the sounds of it NE5. However I've read about it and heard from older familly members, and I reckon in this era of Sky TV, that post Fairs Cup/McKeag type behaviour just wouldn't be possible for a Premier League club. There's too much TV/newspaper/internet exposure these days. I agree, what Freddy did doesn't even compare to the greed and incompetence of previous owners and chairmen, but my view is that Freddy Sheperd had no choice but to spend money. If I had been the chairman I would have spent loads as well, but I'd have been even worse than him. Thats why I'm an engineer and not a football chairman. As I said, I think he really wanted to make NUFC successful, but he just wasn't very good at it. 

 

As I acknowledged in my post, he did give us chances to suceed - the players have to be blamed for not winning the UEFA Cup in 2004 and probably 2005 as well, and not Freddy. But it was how we didn't capitalise on the potential and optimism of 10 years ago that gets me. If I'd been alive in 1969 I'd probably feel the same way or worse about the people in charge for not capitalising on the Fairs Cup success. But at least they won something!

 

I never knew about the board vs. SJH thing when Keegan was appointed - you learn something every day... I don't think you have changed my view on Freddy but I acknowledge not evrything he did was bad. I think it's reasonable that SJH gets most of the credit for that however, because he would have got all of the blame if we'd flopped and gone down to the 3rd!! That is what being a chairman is all about!

[NE5]

shepherd appointed souness and roeder. if he had a remote clue about the game he wouldn't have hired two such useless managers.

 

I'm glad you think that appointing Dalglish, Gullit, Robson and Allardyce are the actions of a useless chairman, running a shite club, that can't attract top managers who doesn't know anything about football.

 

Like every other chairman at every other club, who always appoint winners every time, except us.

 

mackems.gif

 

 

[NE5]

Shepherd wasn't even chairman when Keegan walked so it's a bit harsh to blame that on him!

 

By jove you're right!

 

Must have been getting carried away there... Ok I'll let him off with that one!

 

He was on the board and a major decision maker at that time wasn't he?

 

you're right. The BOARD make these major decisions collectively, and it was Hall Jnr, Shepherd and Fletcher who chose Keegan when he was appointed. The chairman at the time was outvoted by his board members, but strangely gets the credit for it.

 

 

 

He wasn't outvoted as SJH still had the final say, they did twist his arm though.

 

They twisted if quite violently by all accounts !!!

 

He certainly didn't want to get rid of Ardiles

 

 

 

All correct according to Keegan, he didn't want to sack Ardiles because he was a friend and had backed him in the press rather than thinking he was a capable manager though.

 

Serious question then NE5 - Do you think Shepherd had taken the club as far as he could and the time was right for a change in the board?

 

I've no problem in changing owners, if the owners have ambition and the best interests of the club at heart. I never did. I was always wary of going down the road that anyone but Shepherd would be better for the club. Looking at our performance on the pitch, and the backing of the managers, that was dangerously naive and silly view, that many people held.

 

I also said that of course it is possible they had taken the club as far as they can. But it doesn't necessarily mean that any old replacement would be better. Oddly though, I've also said many times that the basic ingredients for success are quite straightforward. You need a good manager, who is the right sort of man to manage Newcastle, and back him to run the club in the way he sees fit. We had a board who backed their managers, and they made the right choice in Allardyce. I think that irrespective of who the board is, whether it was the Halls and Shepherd, or Ashley, he will take the club forward. How far, depends on the backing he gets. And he would certainly have been backed by the Halls and Shepherd in the transfer market, that is an absolute nailed on certainty.

 

Maybe a new approach and organisation off the field WILL help. At the end of the day though, they are or still will be Allardyces innovations and ideas.

 

A new scouting system, bigger and better, was needed. There is no doubt about that. Newcastle have needed that since I started supporting the club in the 1960's!!!!!

 

 

[Guest Dan]

shepherd appointed souness and roeder. if he had a remote clue about the game he wouldn't have hired two such useless managers.

 

I'm glad you think that appointing Dalglish, Gullit, Robson and Allardyce are the actions of a useless chairman, running a s**** club, that can't attract top managers who doesn't know anything about football.

 

Like every other chairman at every other club, who always appoint winners every time, except us.

 

mackems.gif

 

 

 

howay man. even a complete moron would know that those two were never going to be up to managing a big club like ours. you only had to look at their track records, so it's not a case of knowing which managers will be successful but rather not appointing TWO managers with very very poor cvs.

[Dinho lad]

When you appoint someone like Souness to replace SBR, followed by more crap like Roeder, then you deserve hanging by your bollocks tbh.

 

Nice one Sibi.