Some questions answered, some doubts still linger.

[Dragon55544]

Well I am still not seeing Smith contributing enough. Both he and Geremi are being carried somewhat at the moment, the latter was thoroughly outshone by Butt today and Smith again failed to get into the game.

 

Did you watch the game? Smith and Gremi prob had their best games for us. Esescially Smith.

 

The team as a whole performed much better 2nd half, and a soon as Enrique went to left back i always fancied us to get the 3rd. Smith seemed to revel up front, albet it was for oly 10 minutes.

 

As soon as we win Smith and Geremi suddenly start playing well in some people's eyes, had those two put in the same performance today and we had lost people would be going crazy at them.

 

But like the game against Bolton both did OK, nothing more, but because we win people automatically overate them and don't see the faults.

 

Or perhaps people accept they are not great footballers or 100% perfect and instead of pissing and moaning about a few misplaced passes or whatevere prefer to focus on the good. We won and we won because the team played well. Who plays better than others or worse doesn't really matter. Both Smith and Geremi contributed to the win therefore get a few thumbs up.

 

We have become hyper critical as fans and always seem to focus on negatives, or rather some fans do. This is a new era where there is so much positive to look forward to and reflect on dwelling on the negatives just seems, well, morbid. Fair enough under Souness as that was all we had to look forward to, there were no real positives, but there are lots today and fans need to snap out of this pissy moaning all the time attitude and get a bit of joy in them for once.

 

And before anyone starts I'm sure we all know Smith's weaknesses (and the team's and other players) and that he didn't have the world's best game, but  so fucking what. I see 3 points, 6th in the table and lots of positives, that far outweigh any negatives.

 

Get some head lice shampoo, rid yourself of them nits.

 

Good post, The negativity around this board does annoy me at time, So much goin for us yet a few seem impossible to please.

[Sparks]

The last fours years have been one disappointment after another, we had a few false dawns in that period. Some of us are just being realistic, not pessimistic. I think we have a decent chance of finishing in the top 6, yes the top 6.

 

I just hate seeing clear weaknesses in the team not being seen or addressed, no matter how well we are doing.

[Mr Logic]

I'm quite sure they are being seen and will be addressed, in time. Unless you think Allardyce is some kind or Roeder-clone.

[Guest Knightrider]

The last fours years have been one disappointment after another, we had a few false dawns in that period. Some of us are just being realistic, not pessimistic. I think we have a decent chance of finishing in the top 6, yes the top 6.

 

I just hate seeing clear weaknesses in the team not being seen or addressed, no matter how well we are doing.

 

I hate it too Sparks, but I accept it because it can't be fixed overnight.

[Tsunami]

Smith showed that he is a front man & that he should not be allowed in a midfield where we also have Butt & Geremi.

 

From now on Enrique should start, Zog on the left, Milner on the right with Geremi (who isn't playing that well) & Butt in the middle. Smith should come on, up front, to replace The Duke mid way through the second half.

 

Once Barton is fit Butt & Geremi will be fighting for one place.

 

Our midfied got stuffed first half, there was no movement or width & as a result we sat off, didn't win any second balls & allowed WH space, especially down their left & we also got murdered down the middle by Cole & Ashton (who looks a real handful) as we couldn't compete aginst their strength.

 

We improved second half & took control once Zog moved up, Milner changed flanks & Smith moved up top. Our shape was so much better & gave Butt & Geremi options they didn't have before.

 

IMO Martins was much more effective than Owen who had a quiet game & clearly wasn't fit.

[Geordie Boot Boy]

Well I am still not seeing Smith contributing enough. Both he and Geremi are being carried somewhat at the moment, the latter was thoroughly outshone by Butt today and Smith again failed to get into the game.

 

Did you watch the game? Smith and Gremi prob had their best games for us. Esescially Smith.

 

The team as a whole performed much better 2nd half, and a soon as Enrique went to left back i always fancied us to get the 3rd. Smith seemed to revel up front, albet it was for oly 10 minutes.

 

As soon as we win Smith and Geremi suddenly start playing well in some people's eyes, had those two put in the same performance today and we had lost people would be going crazy at them.

 

But like the game against Bolton both did OK, nothing more, but because we win people automatically overate them and don't see the faults.

 

Very true.  And, naturally, the reverse is true too.  There are a lot of reactionaries on here.

[Geordie Boot Boy]

Smith showed that he is a front man & that he should not be allowed in a midfield where we also have Butt & Geremi.

 

Which is exactly why he was a waste of money when we have 4 better strikers than him in terms of goalscoring (IMO). 

[Geordie Boot Boy]

Smith showed that he is a front man & that he should not be allowed in a midfield where we also have Butt & Geremi.

 

Which is exactly why he was a waste of money when we have 4 better strikers than him in terms of goalscoring (IMO). 

 

Shola? You must be joking.

 

He's not a better goalscorer than Smith now?

[Tsunami]

Smith should be on the bench as a replacement for Viduka who will struggle to play 60-70 minutes & will miss a number of games though injury.

 

Ameobi blew it against Derby & will be lucky not to be sold in January should a bid come in.

[Geordie Boot Boy]

Smith showed that he is a front man & that he should not be allowed in a midfield where we also have Butt & Geremi.

 

Which is exactly why he was a waste of money when we have 4 better strikers than him in terms of goalscoring (IMO). 

 

Shola? You must be joking.

 

He's not a better goalscorer than Smith now?

 

I don't know the facts... I'm purely going off who i like to see play football, and Ameobi is very close to the bottom of my list, alongside the likes of Boumsong, Bramble and Carr.

 

Fair enough, I'm purely going off that I like to see goals scored.

[Dr Venkman]

Smith showed that he is a front man & that he should not be allowed in a midfield where we also have Butt & Geremi.

 

Which is exactly why he was a waste of money when we have 4 better strikers than him in terms of goalscoring (IMO). 

 

Shola? You must be joking.

 

He's not a better goalscorer than Smith now?

 

emm, no, he's not, bearing in mind that a lot of these games smith would have played in midfield.looking at this evidence alone (which would be negligent in the extreme but i'm just covering myself) i'd say the best you could put ameobi on would be on a par with smith, and given that shola spends most of his time falling over and getting caught offside, of the two, i'd go with smith

 

Alan Smith

 

1998-2004 Leeds United 172 (38)

2004-2007 Manchester United 061 (7)

2007- Newcastle United 005 (0)

 

a goal every 5.2 games

 

Shola Ameobi

 

2000- Newcastle United 166 (28) 

 

a goal every 5.9 games

 

 

 

[Geordie Boot Boy]

Smith showed that he is a front man & that he should not be allowed in a midfield where we also have Butt & Geremi.

 

Which is exactly why he was a waste of money when we have 4 better strikers than him in terms of goalscoring (IMO). 

 

Shola? You must be joking.

 

He's not a better goalscorer than Smith now?

 

emm, no, he's not, bearing in mind that a lot of these games smith would have played in midfield.looking at this evidence alone (which would be negligent in the extreme but i'm just covering myself) i'd say the best you could put ameobi on would be on a par with smith, and given that shola spends most of his time falling over and getting caught offside, of the two, i'd go with smith

 

Alan Smith

 

1998-2004 Leeds United 172 (38)

2004-2007 Manchester United 061 (7)

2007- Newcastle United 005 (0)

 

a goal every 5.2 games

 

Shola Ameobi

 

2000- Newcastle United 166 (28)  

 

a goal every 5.9 games

 

Disregarding substitute appearances (Ameobi has 30 more substitute appearances than Smith), it comes out in favour of Ameobi (1 goal every 3.4 games to Smith's 1 goal every 4.4 games).  Then, I have to concede that Smith has more appearances as a midfielder than Ameobi but, in turn, he played these games for a successful attacking team that scored more goals and created more chances than Ameobi did.

 

I don't think that there's any definitive way to prove which one is the better goalscorer in terms of statistics.  I'm sticking with my opinion.

[Guest alex]

Smith is a far better forward than Shola imo and he wouldn't have to be that prolific there so long as Martins/Owen/Viduka is scoring alongside him. Smith is more of a second striker too. Neither are prolific enough though.

[Baggio]

I just hate seeing clear weaknesses in the team not being seen or addressed, no matter how well we are doing.

 

Agreed.

 

Why people get shot down for pointing out clear weaknesses in the team I don't know, there's a difference between being negative for the sake of it and constructive criticism.

[Baggio]

Well I am still not seeing Smith contributing enough. Both he and Geremi are being carried somewhat at the moment, the latter was thoroughly outshone by Butt today and Smith again failed to get into the game.

 

Bellamy was shite on the wing n'all.

 

(Not that i think Smith is the same calibre of player as Bellers)

 

Was he?

[Dr Venkman]

Smith showed that he is a front man & that he should not be allowed in a midfield where we also have Butt & Geremi.

 

Which is exactly why he was a waste of money when we have 4 better strikers than him in terms of goalscoring (IMO). 

 

Shola? You must be joking.

 

He's not a better goalscorer than Smith now?

 

emm, no, he's not, bearing in mind that a lot of these games smith would have played in midfield.looking at this evidence alone (which would be negligent in the extreme but i'm just covering myself) i'd say the best you could put ameobi on would be on a par with smith, and given that shola spends most of his time falling over and getting caught offside, of the two, i'd go with smith

 

Alan Smith

 

1998-2004 Leeds United 172 (38)

2004-2007 Manchester United 061 (7)

2007- Newcastle United 005 (0)

 

a goal every 5.2 games

 

Shola Ameobi

 

2000- Newcastle United 166 (28) 

 

a goal every 5.9 games

 

Disregarding substitute appearances (Ameobi has 30 more substitute appearances than Smith), it comes out in favour of Ameobi (1 goal every 3.4 games to Smith's 1 goal every 4.4 games).  Then, I have to concede that Smith has more appearances as a midfielder than Ameobi but, in turn, he played these games for a successful attacking team that scored more goals and created more chances than Ameobi did.

 

I don't think that there's any definitive way to prove which one is the better goalscorer in terms of statistics.  I'm sticking with my opinion.

 

to that i would add that smith was played as a defensive midfielder for the team in question, however i think you're right about the statistics, between the two of them its much of a muchness, on the pitch however, i just fail to see how anyone can say ameobi is currently a better option upfront with either martins/owen