Do you think Sam will succeed as a NUFC manager?

[Guest Knightrider]

You prefer to clutch at straws while turning a blind eye to what is happening on the pitch. Which is not a lot in terms of quality football and the only hope I see is that Barton can turn it on in midfield quickly.

 

7 GAMES MAN, 7 GAMES.

 

Btw I have said time and time again our football hasn't been the best and that our performances have been poor so there is no blind eye or straw clutching from me. Just realism that a new team can't turn it on from the off and most certainly not after a few games.

 

Bolton were a team of grunts, one of the reasons they had so many empty seats. Fat Sam couldn't change his way of thinking and look at a big picture. Flair and excitement fill seats...everywhere. Trophies fill seats but as chelsea are finding, not everywhere. At the Toon, trophies and shite football will fill the stadium but you have to have a few more ideas than a team like arsenal reserves, and I'm not sure Sammy has that ability to either coach it into them or buy flair players that can turn a game.

 

What are you dribbling on about, he bought flair players at Bolton and some very high profile ones too yet you claim he won't do the same for us? And the reason Bolton can't fill their stadium is because they are a shitty small town club with shitty fans in the same way Blackburn, Boro, Wigan and even Reading can't fill theirs either, not because the football is shite or even because ticket prices are sky high.

 

Allardyce changed his way of thinking every season at Bolton fwiw, hence them improving every season. Again to suggest he won't at Newcastle is reactionary shite. Buying Anelka, which you conveniently ignore, was a bold and progressive move on Big Sam's behalf. Did you see some of their football last season?

 

Bolton 2-0 Liverpool

Newcastle 1-2  Bolton (they tore us to pieces in the second half)

Bolton 3-1 Arsenal

Bolton 4-0 West Ham

Bolton 3-2 Portsmouth

Arsenal 1-1 Bolton

Wigan 1-3 Bolton

Chelsea 2-2 Bolton

 

Impressive wins and performances that suggest they were more than a long ball team full of grafters. teams don't pick up them kind of wins or feature in those kind of high scoring games if all they can do is huff and puff.

 

And only now we can how much of a linch pin SA was at Bolton same players alot of the same backroom staff a manager that had plenty of time to see how it works and to learn and improve on sam's techniques and the club are like a big pile of stinking shit from front to back at the moment Anelka with his general class being one of the only few exceptions.

 

Giving Sam time just like we did wore bob is the only way to see a true picture of the guys class or middle of the roadness

 

Exactly. My biggest fear is if we don't have a good season he'll get the sack meaning we'll never know. Sometimes you just have to give a manager all the time in the world, especially good managers with a clear knowledge of how to build/run a club successful. In fact it says everything about our club that we are even talking like this about a manager who has only had 6 games or something in charge.

[nufcjmc]

I often think how much of affect having the owner and chairman both having no footballing background if thats good for sams tenure or not.

 

Those with a footballing knowledge may see that Sam needs a transitional season or so due to needing to over hall and back him 100% as long as we dont seem to be going backwards and in that sense its so far so good.

 

Or it may be a bad thing as in they go off the will of the masses and a stuttering season may get them itchy fingers but we will be back to square one as if we dont get a good base then most good managers or what we all seem to crave "top class" will only come for the money as will the players and I fear we will be completing just another cycle

[Parky]

I have no doubts he will see out the 3 years and then manage England.

[nufcjmc]

I still dont know except the bungs thing hanging over him how the hell a muppet like mclaren got the job over him. Hopefully if it all goes to plan he will see out his full contract and if he does leave do the one thing that bob didnt get right and leave us at the right stage to be taken onwards by someone and not demolished and built back up again

[Baggio]

You prefer to clutch at straws while turning a blind eye to what is happening on the pitch. Which is not a lot in terms of quality football and the only hope I see is that Barton can turn it on in midfield quickly.

 

7 GAMES MAN, 7 GAMES.

 

Btw I have said time and time again our football hasn't been the best and that our performances have been poor so there is no blind eye or straw clutching from me. Just realism that a new team can't turn it on from the off and most certainly not after a few games.

 

Bolton were a team of grunts, one of the reasons they had so many empty seats. Fat Sam couldn't change his way of thinking and look at a big picture. Flair and excitement fill seats...everywhere. Trophies fill seats but as chelsea are finding, not everywhere. At the Toon, trophies and shite football will fill the stadium but you have to have a few more ideas than a team like arsenal reserves, and I'm not sure Sammy has that ability to either coach it into them or buy flair players that can turn a game.

 

What are you dribbling on about, he bought flair players at Bolton and some very high profile ones too yet you claim he won't do the same for us? And the reason Bolton can't fill their stadium is because they are a shitty small town club with shitty fans in the same way Blackburn, Boro, Wigan and even Reading can't fill theirs either, not because the football is shite or even because ticket prices are sky high.

 

Allardyce changed his way of thinking every season at Bolton fwiw, hence them improving every season. Again to suggest he won't at Newcastle is reactionary shite. Buying Anelka, which you conveniently ignore, was a bold and progressive move on Big Sam's behalf. Did you see some of their football last season?

 

Bolton 2-0 Liverpool

Newcastle 1-2  Bolton (they tore us to pieces in the second half)

Bolton 3-1 Arsenal

Bolton 4-0 West Ham

Bolton 3-2 Portsmouth

Arsenal 1-1 Bolton

Wigan 1-3 Bolton

Chelsea 2-2 Bolton

 

Impressive wins and performances that suggest they were more than a long ball team full of grafters. teams don't pick up them kind of wins or feature in those kind of high scoring games if all they can do is huff and puff.

 

How many of those games did you watch HTT or have you just looked through a list of their games last season and picked out impressive results?

 

I can remember the 2-2 draw with Chelsea towards the end of the season and they were a long ball team who looked to get everyone behind the ball and tried to take advantage from dead ball situations, ugly stuff.

 

The same could be said about their games with Arsenal where he admitted at the talk in that he gets his team to go out and "kick the shit out of them", how is this good football?

 

The Bolton fans complained about his style of football all last season so it's not a jealousy thing because he's left, they were just a shit long ball team to watch.

[Yorkie]

You prefer to clutch at straws while turning a blind eye to what is happening on the pitch. Which is not a lot in terms of quality football and the only hope I see is that Barton can turn it on in midfield quickly.

 

7 GAMES MAN, 7 GAMES.

 

Btw I have said time and time again our football hasn't been the best and that our performances have been poor so there is no blind eye or straw clutching from me. Just realism that a new team can't turn it on from the off and most certainly not after a few games.

 

Bolton were a team of grunts, one of the reasons they had so many empty seats. Fat Sam couldn't change his way of thinking and look at a big picture. Flair and excitement fill seats...everywhere. Trophies fill seats but as chelsea are finding, not everywhere. At the Toon, trophies and shite football will fill the stadium but you have to have a few more ideas than a team like arsenal reserves, and I'm not sure Sammy has that ability to either coach it into them or buy flair players that can turn a game.

 

What are you dribbling on about, he bought flair players at Bolton and some very high profile ones too yet you claim he won't do the same for us? And the reason Bolton can't fill their stadium is because they are a shitty small town club with shitty fans in the same way Blackburn, Boro, Wigan and even Reading can't fill theirs either, not because the football is shite or even because ticket prices are sky high.

 

Allardyce changed his way of thinking every season at Bolton fwiw, hence them improving every season. Again to suggest he won't at Newcastle is reactionary shite. Buying Anelka, which you conveniently ignore, was a bold and progressive move on Big Sam's behalf. Did you see some of their football last season?

 

Bolton 2-0 Liverpool

Newcastle 1-2  Bolton (they tore us to pieces in the second half)

Bolton 3-1 Arsenal

Bolton 4-0 West Ham

Bolton 3-2 Portsmouth

Arsenal 1-1 Bolton

Wigan 1-3 Bolton

Chelsea 2-2 Bolton

 

Impressive wins and performances that suggest they were more than a long ball team full of grafters. teams don't pick up them kind of wins or feature in those kind of high scoring games if all they can do is huff and puff.

 

I can remember the 2-2 draw with Chelsea towards the end of the season and they were a long ball team who looked to get everyone behind the ball and tried to take advantage from dead ball situations, ugly stuff.

 

The same could be said about their games with Arsenal where he admitted at the talk in that he gets his team to go out and "kick the shit out of them", how is this good football?

 

Aye, and i bet Bolton were gutted with them results, gutted.

[Baggio]

You prefer to clutch at straws while turning a blind eye to what is happening on the pitch. Which is not a lot in terms of quality football and the only hope I see is that Barton can turn it on in midfield quickly.

 

7 GAMES MAN, 7 GAMES.

 

Btw I have said time and time again our football hasn't been the best and that our performances have been poor so there is no blind eye or straw clutching from me. Just realism that a new team can't turn it on from the off and most certainly not after a few games.

 

Bolton were a team of grunts, one of the reasons they had so many empty seats. Fat Sam couldn't change his way of thinking and look at a big picture. Flair and excitement fill seats...everywhere. Trophies fill seats but as chelsea are finding, not everywhere. At the Toon, trophies and shite football will fill the stadium but you have to have a few more ideas than a team like arsenal reserves, and I'm not sure Sammy has that ability to either coach it into them or buy flair players that can turn a game.

 

What are you dribbling on about, he bought flair players at Bolton and some very high profile ones too yet you claim he won't do the same for us? And the reason Bolton can't fill their stadium is because they are a shitty small town club with shitty fans in the same way Blackburn, Boro, Wigan and even Reading can't fill theirs either, not because the football is shite or even because ticket prices are sky high.

 

Allardyce changed his way of thinking every season at Bolton fwiw, hence them improving every season. Again to suggest he won't at Newcastle is reactionary shite. Buying Anelka, which you conveniently ignore, was a bold and progressive move on Big Sam's behalf. Did you see some of their football last season?

 

Bolton 2-0 Liverpool

Newcastle 1-2  Bolton (they tore us to pieces in the second half)

Bolton 3-1 Arsenal

Bolton 4-0 West Ham

Bolton 3-2 Portsmouth

Arsenal 1-1 Bolton

Wigan 1-3 Bolton

Chelsea 2-2 Bolton

 

Impressive wins and performances that suggest they were more than a long ball team full of grafters. teams don't pick up them kind of wins or feature in those kind of high scoring games if all they can do is huff and puff.

 

I can remember the 2-2 draw with Chelsea towards the end of the season and they were a long ball team who looked to get everyone behind the ball and tried to take advantage from dead ball situations, ugly stuff.

 

The same could be said about their games with Arsenal where he admitted at the talk in that he gets his team to go out and "kick the shit out of them", how is this good football?

 

Aye, and i bet Bolton were gutted with them results, gutted.

 

Unfortunately Yorkie you've missed the point, I'm not trying to say their results were poor even though I could pull some shockers out from last season too that HTT has conveniently left out, the point he was making was that they're not a huff and puff team which they clearly were, but being a team like that doesn't mean you're not capable of winning big games.

[Parky]

You prefer to clutch at straws while turning a blind eye to what is happening on the pitch. Which is not a lot in terms of quality football and the only hope I see is that Barton can turn it on in midfield quickly.

 

7 GAMES MAN, 7 GAMES.

 

Btw I have said time and time again our football hasn't been the best and that our performances have been poor so there is no blind eye or straw clutching from me. Just realism that a new team can't turn it on from the off and most certainly not after a few games.

 

Bolton were a team of grunts, one of the reasons they had so many empty seats. Fat Sam couldn't change his way of thinking and look at a big picture. Flair and excitement fill seats...everywhere. Trophies fill seats but as chelsea are finding, not everywhere. At the Toon, trophies and shite football will fill the stadium but you have to have a few more ideas than a team like arsenal reserves, and I'm not sure Sammy has that ability to either coach it into them or buy flair players that can turn a game.

 

What are you dribbling on about, he bought flair players at Bolton and some very high profile ones too yet you claim he won't do the same for us? And the reason Bolton can't fill their stadium is because they are a shitty small town club with shitty fans in the same way Blackburn, Boro, Wigan and even Reading can't fill theirs either, not because the football is shite or even because ticket prices are sky high.

 

Allardyce changed his way of thinking every season at Bolton fwiw, hence them improving every season. Again to suggest he won't at Newcastle is reactionary shite. Buying Anelka, which you conveniently ignore, was a bold and progressive move on Big Sam's behalf. Did you see some of their football last season?

 

Bolton 2-0 Liverpool

Newcastle 1-2  Bolton (they tore us to pieces in the second half)

Bolton 3-1 Arsenal

Bolton 4-0 West Ham

Bolton 3-2 Portsmouth

Arsenal 1-1 Bolton

Wigan 1-3 Bolton

Chelsea 2-2 Bolton

 

Impressive wins and performances that suggest they were more than a long ball team full of grafters. teams don't pick up them kind of wins or feature in those kind of high scoring games if all they can do is huff and puff.

 

I can remember the 2-2 draw with Chelsea towards the end of the season and they were a long ball team who looked to get everyone behind the ball and tried to take advantage from dead ball situations, ugly stuff.

 

The same could be said about their games with Arsenal where he admitted at the talk in that he gets his team to go out and "kick the shit out of them", how is this good football?

 

Aye, and i bet Bolton were gutted with them results, gutted.

 

Unfortunately Yorkie you've missed the point, I'm not trying to say their results were poor even though I could pull some shockers out from last season too that HTT has conveniently left out, the point he was making was that they're not a huff and puff team which they clearly were, but being a team like that doesn't mean you're not capable of winning big games.

 

The core of Htt's arguments in nearly every thread imo is let's start winning games first and slowly bring in the good football later (right now I'm happy to win game as well).

 

That's fine to some extent but in the real world it doesn't really work like that. A system  is something that evolves - if from the youth system up style and movement isn't a pre-requisite and ingrained over a period of a few seasons ( you can't just click it on and off or do it in spells.

 

SA likes winning percentage football and making sides hard to beat...That is what we'll get more or less. Although I will say there were spells in the WH game we (Zoggy mainly) has some incredible movement and interchanging, but you see he grew up in another system.

[Yorkie]

You prefer to clutch at straws while turning a blind eye to what is happening on the pitch. Which is not a lot in terms of quality football and the only hope I see is that Barton can turn it on in midfield quickly.

 

7 GAMES MAN, 7 GAMES.

 

Btw I have said time and time again our football hasn't been the best and that our performances have been poor so there is no blind eye or straw clutching from me. Just realism that a new team can't turn it on from the off and most certainly not after a few games.

 

Bolton were a team of grunts, one of the reasons they had so many empty seats. Fat Sam couldn't change his way of thinking and look at a big picture. Flair and excitement fill seats...everywhere. Trophies fill seats but as chelsea are finding, not everywhere. At the Toon, trophies and shite football will fill the stadium but you have to have a few more ideas than a team like arsenal reserves, and I'm not sure Sammy has that ability to either coach it into them or buy flair players that can turn a game.

 

What are you dribbling on about, he bought flair players at Bolton and some very high profile ones too yet you claim he won't do the same for us? And the reason Bolton can't fill their stadium is because they are a shitty small town club with shitty fans in the same way Blackburn, Boro, Wigan and even Reading can't fill theirs either, not because the football is shite or even because ticket prices are sky high.

 

Allardyce changed his way of thinking every season at Bolton fwiw, hence them improving every season. Again to suggest he won't at Newcastle is reactionary shite. Buying Anelka, which you conveniently ignore, was a bold and progressive move on Big Sam's behalf. Did you see some of their football last season?

 

Bolton 2-0 Liverpool

Newcastle 1-2  Bolton (they tore us to pieces in the second half)

Bolton 3-1 Arsenal

Bolton 4-0 West Ham

Bolton 3-2 Portsmouth

Arsenal 1-1 Bolton

Wigan 1-3 Bolton

Chelsea 2-2 Bolton

 

Impressive wins and performances that suggest they were more than a long ball team full of grafters. teams don't pick up them kind of wins or feature in those kind of high scoring games if all they can do is huff and puff.

 

I can remember the 2-2 draw with Chelsea towards the end of the season and they were a long ball team who looked to get everyone behind the ball and tried to take advantage from dead ball situations, ugly stuff.

 

The same could be said about their games with Arsenal where he admitted at the talk in that he gets his team to go out and "kick the shit out of them", how is this good football?

 

Aye, and i bet Bolton were gutted with them results, gutted.

 

Unfortunately Yorkie you've missed the point,

 

Atleast i'm consistent.

[ohmelads]

Exactly. My biggest fear is if we don't have a good season he'll get the sack meaning we'll never know. Sometimes you just have to give a manager all the time in the world, especially good managers with a clear knowledge of how to build/run a club successful. In fact it says everything about our club that we are even talking like this about a manager who has only had 6 games or something in charge.

 

I think a club the size of ours can only afford to give time to a manager who has some kind of pedigree. Allardyce clearly qualifies there because he's done a brilliant job with Bolton. I was against giving Souness and Roeder too much time because there was no evidence of their managerial quality, nothing you could point at and say "see, we should keep the faith in this guy because he's delivered before". Keeping either of them for too long might have done a lot more damage. I'll give Allardyce far more benefit of the doubt than I ever gave those two because his record shows that he deserves time. Their record shows they didn't.

[Parky]

Exactly. My biggest fear is if we don't have a good season he'll get the sack meaning we'll never know. Sometimes you just have to give a manager all the time in the world, especially good managers with a clear knowledge of how to build/run a club successful. In fact it says everything about our club that we are even talking like this about a manager who has only had 6 games or something in charge.

 

I think a club the size of ours can only afford to give time to a manager who has some kind of pedigree. Allardyce clearly qualifies there because he's done a brilliant job with Bolton. I was against giving Souness and Roeder too much time because there was no evidence of their managerial quality, nothing you could point at and say "see, we should keep the faith in this guy because he's delivered before". Keeping either of them for too long might have done a lot more damage. I'll give Allardyce far more benefit of the doubt than I ever gave those two because his record shows that he deserves time. Their record shows they didn't.

 

 

I whine about him sometimes, but right here right now is his destiny. blueyes.gif

 

 

[garth]

whats the fruking problem.?

 

Am as gulity as the next mand for wanting a quick fix, but ne dnd of the day, its a good proseesss. Slowly but surely, we will get there in the end. There is a plan goals and a foundation being bulit, its not totally spectacular, but end of the day, not many would be happy if sven took a gamble and it didn't gay off. It gas, good for him, but no one predictied it, noone on here thought he'd do a good job, and still, its only a start, start only lay something out for the future, 8its better to haver a steady start,anf not a huge leap, as we've had these kind of quick fixes before. IO

 

I will bitch, its in my nature to be unpayy, its just part of the makep now, but even i deep down feel really postive aobour the whole situation, itsa great thing right now. Itsd slow, but well i get there in the end, were going to see the best period for being a too nfan for a long long time, it will happaen, it will happen soon, and its about time we got it. ew do deserve it, its cliche, we waited so long, bla h blfg. But its true, we'e been good fans and we deserve a bit of luck more thsn anyone. am not sure it will happen, its football, nowts certain, but if thingd pa nout, were next. we are a good thing wating to happen.

 

nite.

 

 

Could somebody translate this for me. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Haz]

He has the attributes and capacity to succeed but he has possibly not really grasped the enormity of what is expected.  If he can turn us intot team that wins more than loses, that will be a good foothold. I think he has an eye for a player and doesnt muck about with the paymasters, so I think that is a decent recipe for Allardyce to succeed with us.

[Guest NUFC4]

stoooopid poll only a few matches into his career here. and yes he can take us all the way

[sicsfingeredmong]

At Bolton, with a few notable exceptions during his tenureship being the likes of Okocha and Diouf, he fielded a team of grafters and the football on display at The Reebok Stadium reflected the team make-up. Amidst his physically dominating team approach and a long-ball tactics there was always one or two players - ie. the two already named earlier - who in an instant could steal 1 or 3 points on any given match-day.

 

However on paper the team currently at his disposal far outweighs the Bolton side he built in the way of 'ball-playing ability'. Sam's current & predominant tactic - ie. long balls out of defense to the outside channels/the wide 433 forwards - flies in the face of the collective ability of what is imo a true ball-playing defensive guard, and collectively Beye-Cacapa-Rozenhal-Enrique could be the best unit we've seen in this sense in many seasons. At the moment the tactics employed compared to the players on offer is akin to putting a square peg in a round hole.

 

The moves Allardyce has made off the pitch, both in the transfer market & the football back-room are leaps & strides ahead of his recent incumbents and for that he deserves time and the benefit of the doubt but unless he attempts or at the very least is prepared to alter our on-field footballing culture/style of play, which since season 01/02 has slipped back something more suited to the old Division 1 days, his reign will be remembered as being a period of underachievement on the field.   

[Guest Knightrider]

You prefer to clutch at straws while turning a blind eye to what is happening on the pitch. Which is not a lot in terms of quality football and the only hope I see is that Barton can turn it on in midfield quickly.

 

7 GAMES MAN, 7 GAMES.

 

Btw I have said time and time again our football hasn't been the best and that our performances have been poor so there is no blind eye or straw clutching from me. Just realism that a new team can't turn it on from the off and most certainly not after a few games.

 

Bolton were a team of grunts, one of the reasons they had so many empty seats. Fat Sam couldn't change his way of thinking and look at a big picture. Flair and excitement fill seats...everywhere. Trophies fill seats but as chelsea are finding, not everywhere. At the Toon, trophies and shite football will fill the stadium but you have to have a few more ideas than a team like arsenal reserves, and I'm not sure Sammy has that ability to either coach it into them or buy flair players that can turn a game.

 

What are you dribbling on about, he bought flair players at Bolton and some very high profile ones too yet you claim he won't do the same for us? And the reason Bolton can't fill their stadium is because they are a shitty small town club with shitty fans in the same way Blackburn, Boro, Wigan and even Reading can't fill theirs either, not because the football is shite or even because ticket prices are sky high.

 

Allardyce changed his way of thinking every season at Bolton fwiw, hence them improving every season. Again to suggest he won't at Newcastle is reactionary shite. Buying Anelka, which you conveniently ignore, was a bold and progressive move on Big Sam's behalf. Did you see some of their football last season?

 

Bolton 2-0 Liverpool

Newcastle 1-2  Bolton (they tore us to pieces in the second half)

Bolton 3-1 Arsenal

Bolton 4-0 West Ham

Bolton 3-2 Portsmouth

Arsenal 1-1 Bolton

Wigan 1-3 Bolton

Chelsea 2-2 Bolton

 

Impressive wins and performances that suggest they were more than a long ball team full of grafters. teams don't pick up them kind of wins or feature in those kind of high scoring games if all they can do is huff and puff.

 

I can remember the 2-2 draw with Chelsea towards the end of the season and they were a long ball team who looked to get everyone behind the ball and tried to take advantage from dead ball situations, ugly stuff.

 

The same could be said about their games with Arsenal where he admitted at the talk in that he gets his team to go out and "kick the shit out of them", how is this good football?

 

Aye, and i bet Bolton were gutted with them results, gutted.

 

Unfortunately Yorkie you've missed the point, I'm not trying to say their results were poor even though I could pull some shockers out from last season too that HTT has conveniently left out, the point he was making was that they're not a huff and puff team which they clearly were, but being a team like that doesn't mean you're not capable of winning big games.

 

The core of Htt's arguments in nearly every thread imo is let's start winning games first and slowly bring in the good football later (right now I'm happy to win game as well).

 

That's fine to some extent but in the real world it doesn't really work like that. A system  is something that evolves - if from the youth system up style and movement isn't a pre-requisite and ingrained over a period of a few seasons ( you can't just click it on and off or do it in spells.

 

SA likes winning percentage football and making sides hard to beat...That is what we'll get more or less. Although I will say there were spells in the WH game we (Zoggy mainly) has some incredible movement and interchanging, but you see he grew up in another system.

 

No, my argument is that a whole new team under the command of a new manager and backroom staff with new ideas and whatnot cannot simply be the finished article after just a few games. And that's what people are comparing this team to, to some kind of idealistic finished article in their head. It's quite frankly, ridiculous.

[Guest Knightrider]

You prefer to clutch at straws while turning a blind eye to what is happening on the pitch. Which is not a lot in terms of quality football and the only hope I see is that Barton can turn it on in midfield quickly.

 

7 GAMES MAN, 7 GAMES.

 

Btw I have said time and time again our football hasn't been the best and that our performances have been poor so there is no blind eye or straw clutching from me. Just realism that a new team can't turn it on from the off and most certainly not after a few games.

 

Bolton were a team of grunts, one of the reasons they had so many empty seats. Fat Sam couldn't change his way of thinking and look at a big picture. Flair and excitement fill seats...everywhere. Trophies fill seats but as chelsea are finding, not everywhere. At the Toon, trophies and shite football will fill the stadium but you have to have a few more ideas than a team like arsenal reserves, and I'm not sure Sammy has that ability to either coach it into them or buy flair players that can turn a game.

 

What are you dribbling on about, he bought flair players at Bolton and some very high profile ones too yet you claim he won't do the same for us? And the reason Bolton can't fill their stadium is because they are a shitty small town club with shitty fans in the same way Blackburn, Boro, Wigan and even Reading can't fill theirs either, not because the football is shite or even because ticket prices are sky high.

 

Allardyce changed his way of thinking every season at Bolton fwiw, hence them improving every season. Again to suggest he won't at Newcastle is reactionary shite. Buying Anelka, which you conveniently ignore, was a bold and progressive move on Big Sam's behalf. Did you see some of their football last season?

 

Bolton 2-0 Liverpool

Newcastle 1-2  Bolton (they tore us to pieces in the second half)

Bolton 3-1 Arsenal

Bolton 4-0 West Ham

Bolton 3-2 Portsmouth

Arsenal 1-1 Bolton

Wigan 1-3 Bolton

Chelsea 2-2 Bolton

 

Impressive wins and performances that suggest they were more than a long ball team full of grafters. teams don't pick up them kind of wins or feature in those kind of high scoring games if all they can do is huff and puff.

 

How many of those games did you watch HTT or have you just looked through a list of their games last season and picked out impressive results?

 

I can remember the 2-2 draw with Chelsea towards the end of the season and they were a long ball team who looked to get everyone behind the ball and tried to take advantage from dead ball situations, ugly stuff.

 

The same could be said about their games with Arsenal where he admitted at the talk in that he gets his team to go out and "kick the shit out of them", how is this good football?

 

The Bolton fans complained about his style of football all last season so it's not a jealousy thing because he's left, they were just a shit long ball team to watch.

 

I saw a lot of those games, the Arsenal one, the Chelsea one, the Toon one, the Liverpool one. Of course I cherry picked their better results but then that's because they reinforce my point. They were not a shit long ball team as you put it, they weren't even a long ball team. They were similar to Chelsea and Liverpool but because they had more eye catching players on display it looked like they played the superior football, when they didn't.

 

All Bolton fans complained? Is that why they still averaged 20K gates. Presumably 20,000 people were very happy with the football on offer. Anyway to use dwindling gates as any kind of argument is weak. Traditionally Bolton have never had big gates, in the grande scheme of things 20K for them is just about max on average.

 

Bolton as a football club and town can't support a 30K gate, regardless. They may fill it every now and again but they'll never fill their ground on a regular basis with whoever as manager, same applies to all those clubs like them such as Boro who actually play good football, or try to, Reading likewise, Wigan likewise and Blackburn too.

 

If you want to use attendances as some kind of measure, you have to dig deeper to understand why attendances were dropping. Shit football as you put it is an excuse. Fans will always turn up if their team is winning 9 times out of 10. If their team is winning and they still don't turn up then there are deeper reasons behind the stay aways.

 

Mud sticks it seems. "Bolton play long ball shite football"

 

Well if that was the case, it was a million miles away from anything we've served up over the past few years and even this season where we've been poor in the main. I just hope we start playing more like them sooner rather than later, because we'll win more games, score more goals, keep more clean sheets and finish in the league high up and that's all I care about tbh and not how one man defines whether the football is attractive or not.

[greydos]

HTT nobody wants this team to be the finished article after 6 games. What we want is there to be signs that we want to play positive football. If you've got a whole pre-season with a team, there is no doubt in my mind that Sam could have coached them to at least attempt passing triangles and movement in matches. Even if we played possession football for 20 mins in a match, that would show where he wants to go.

 

Right now, there is no evidence that he even wants to play nice football as his long term aim.

 

Oh, and for the record, there was not an Okocha for every grafter at Bolton. There was ONE Okocha, and ONE Anelka. There were PLENTY of grafters

[Guest Knightrider]

HTT nobody wants this team to be the finished article after 6 games. What we want is there to be signs that we want to play positive football. If you've got a whole pre-season with a team, there is no doubt in my mind that Sam could have coached them to at least attempt passing triangles and movement in matches. Even if we played possession football for 20 mins in a match, that would show where he wants to go.

 

Right now, there is no evidence that he even wants to play nice football as his long term aim.

 

Oh, and for the record, there was not an Okocha for every grafter at Bolton. There was ONE Okocha, and ONE Anelka. There were PLENTY of grafters

 

We have played some good stuff, against Wigan, Bolton first half and against West Ham, not to mention in pre-season, so you saying there has been no signs is another daft statement.

 

As for Okocha and Anelka. How about Diouf, Campo, Djorkaef, Stelios, Fortune, Borgetti, Fernandes, Jansen, Fadiga, Candela, Hierro, and so on and so on? Hardly grafters eh? And what about the players he tried to sign? Kluivert, Rivaldo?

 

Again, more uninformed shite.

 

Now look at Newcastle: Cacap & Rozenhal - footballing defenders, Barton - a playmaking box to box midfielder, Beye & Enrique - attacking full-backs, Geremi - technically gifted.

 

Is that the sign of a manager who ONLY wants cloggers and grafters?

 

Indeed when he signed Cacapa and Rozenhal he enthused about their passing abilities which he identified as being important things as to why he brought them here. In order to pass out from the back.

 

It's "facts" like this that piss me right off.

[Guest Knightrider]

However on paper the team currently at his disposal far outweighs the Bolton side he built in the way of 'ball-playing ability'.

 

It does, but he had years at Bolton to get the right balance between graft and skill, succeeding. He's had 6 games here or something and the skill and better football will only start to show once this new team is settled and has gelled as a unit. I.e. after a good run of games.

[Dragon55544]

It seems some fans would prefer to lose 4-3 than win 1-0.

 

FWIW I think SA is doing a good job, The problem is some people expect instant success which aint going to happen. We had 9 new players in the Summer and a new manager and after 7 games people are moaning about the way we are playing despite us having our best start in 6 seasons.

 

[ohmelads]

However on paper the team currently at his disposal far outweighs the Bolton side he built in the way of 'ball-playing ability'.

 

It does, but he had years at Bolton to get the right balance between graft and skill, succeeding. He's had 6 games here or something and the skill and better football will only start to show once this new team is settled and has gelled as a unit. I.e. after a good run of games.

 

I don't think he intends us to play that kind of football at all. I certainly won't hold my breath. He'll build us into a solid organized side and with that we'll achieve some success, but I'll be surprised if he changes his habits and what he knows best. His signings all point towards long ball football and a team of grafters, let's be honest.  We brought in Allardyce and we're getting Allardyce football - a year ago most people on here hated him and hated Bolton's football.

 

For now I have the attitude of beggars can't be choosers. Winning ugly will do me to get us back up and challenging in the top 6. I believe he's capable of achieving that.

[Guest Knightrider]

However on paper the team currently at his disposal far outweighs the Bolton side he built in the way of 'ball-playing ability'.

 

It does, but he had years at Bolton to get the right balance between graft and skill, succeeding. He's had 6 games here or something and the skill and better football will only start to show once this new team is settled and has gelled as a unit. I.e. after a good run of games.

 

I don't think he intends us to play that kind of football at all. I certainly won't hold my breath. He'll build us into a solid organized side and with that we'll achieve some success, but I'll be surprised if he changes his habits and what he knows best. His signings all point towards long ball football, let's be honest.

 

For now I have the attitude of beggars can't be choosers. Winning ugly will do me to get us back up and challenging in the top 6. I believe he's capable of achieving that.

 

We really have to forget about this long ball thing because it's a myth. Sure he deploys that tactic sometimes but it isn't the defining criteria of his tactics and furthermore he doesn't deploy it willy nilly. It, along with many other things, is kind of like a trick up a sleeve, to be used every now and again to either gain an advantage or to benefit from a disadvantage.

 

Bolton were not an up and at 'em long ball team as wrongfully described by many, the very notion that they were actually makes a mockery of his midfield lineup at Bolton which consisted of interchangeable players, and his forwards which consisted of pace, power, guile and strength. Now I watched Bolton quite a bit last season and most of their play came from midfield, and the flanks, especially in forward areas. Through traingles of play involving those 6 players (3 in midfield, 3 up front)

 

The very aim of long ball football as a tactic is to bypass the midfield to theoretically shorten the pitch or rather the distance from goal. I.e. getting at the opposition quickly and directly. Long ball football has no room for players like Gary Speed, Nolan and Campo to effect a game, much less artisans like Diouf and Anelka. They simply wouldn't prosper in such a system.

 

Therefore it is ridiculous to claim Bolton were a long ball team. If they were that they wouldn't have achieved the kind of results they did or finished as highly as they did. It also does a great disservice to Sam Allardyce himself, a great innovator and thinker. This is why he gets so defensive and angry when his style is described as long ball. It isn't, it is far more advanced and far more successful than long ball ever will be and can be and it seems most people don't understand his way of playing. You're in good company mind because half the teams in the league and their managers didn't have a clue either, even people like Wenger struggled to understand it or break it down to combat it.

 

You can't, for 90 minutes, week in week out, win games by launching it long at every will. You will rarely benefit from long ball in 90 minutes never mind over the course of a season. I mean how many goals are scored week in week out from a long punt? Not many.

 

As a stats man, Big Sam will know the following:

 

Most goals and chances created come from the central areas of the pitch, especially midfield. Long ball would contradict that. Defence to striker's head = bypassing midfield.

 

Possession is best won back by pressing, not tackling. A team full of grafters and tacklers would contradict that.

 

Check your PM Ohmelads, to see for yourself.

[Baggio]

I saw a lot of those games, the Arsenal one, the Chelsea one, the Toon one, the Liverpool one. Of course I cherry picked their better results but then that's because they reinforce my point. They were not a shit long ball team as you put it, they weren't even a long ball team. They were similar to Chelsea and Liverpool but because they had more eye catching players on display it looked like they played the superior football, when they didn't.

 

How you can deny they are a long ball team I'm not sure, it's plain to see for anyone who watched them last season what they're about, yes they play similar to Liverpool but they play shit football too so why you're trying to re write history yet again is beyond me.

 

The difference between Liverpool and Bolton as you've already pointed out is the superior class in players, Liverpool had good attacking fullbacks in Riise and Finnan where as Bolton had Hunt and Gardner, the talent of Gerrard compared to a plodder like Nolan etc, nobody complains about the style of play at Liverpool because they're successful, the same as nobody would complain about it here if we were successful too, however if you're getting played off the park by the likes of Derby County then you have to expect people to by annoyed with it.

 

All Bolton fans complained? Is that why they still averaged 20K gates. Presumably 20,000 people were very happy with the football on offer. Anyway to use dwindling gates as any kind of argument is weak. Traditionally Bolton have never had big gates, in the grande scheme of things 20K for them is just about max on average.

 

Bolton as a football club and town can't support a 30K gate, regardless. They may fill it every now and again but they'll never fill their ground on a regular basis with whoever as manager, same applies to all those clubs like them such as Boro who actually play good football, or try to, Reading likewise, Wigan likewise and Blackburn too.

 

If you want to use attendances as some kind of measure, you have to dig deeper to understand why attendances were dropping. Shit football as you put it is an excuse. Fans will always turn up if their team is winning 9 times out of 10. If their team is winning and they still don't turn up then there are deeper reasons behind the stay aways.

 

Can you highlight where I used attendances as to say that Bolton fans didn't like his style? IN fact I'll save you wasting your time looking because I haven't so you're either confused or you've made it up.

 

By the way the example you've given is flawed, 52,000 still turned up every week for Premiership games under Souness and according to your theory they would have been happy with the football on offer which is rubbish.

 

Just to point out though I didn't even mention attendances.

 

Mud sticks it seems. "Bolton play long ball shite football"

 

Well if that was the case, it was a million miles away from anything we've served up over the past few years and even this season where we've been poor in the main. I just hope we start playing more like them sooner rather than later, because we'll win more games, score more goals, keep more clean sheets and finish in the league high up and that's all I care about tbh and not how one man defines whether the football is attractive or not.

 

They did play long ball football and to deny that is deluded beyond belief, Allardyce even tried to defend it in his press conference here by saying other clubs get away with playing that style and the press call it a long pass, with Bolton they say it's long ball because they're jealous or words to that affect.

 

Being better than your boys Souness or Roeder are hardly a benchmark either, both were poor managers as the majority pointed out on here all of the way through.

 

I've no doubt Allardyce will come in and get our current lot into shape, make them organised and hard to break down but to suggest he got Bolton playing great football is bollocks, they were an organised, workmanlike team who got stuck in and used Kevin Davies heading ability to their advantage by winning knock downs from Campo's long balls, they were hardly the Ajax team of 95.

[Guest alex]

Chelsea and Liverpool play long-ball football too btw.