Alan Smith

[Howaythelads]

Alex has touched a good point where he mentions partnerships. These are important, its not always the best individual skills that make the best player, but Smith alongside a prolific goalscorer would be a great partner for such a player.

 

Its not even about partnerships. The entire team played better with Smith dropping off and linkup up intelligently, as opposed to tussling with defenders (Viduka) or displaying clown like touches (Martins, Ameobi). Ball retention was higher, there were more team attacking moves, simply because we werent losing the ball as soon as it was played forward, and we looked a better unit all round as a result.

 

 

Which is why I've been banging on for ages that our best pairing up front is Owen and Smith.

[Guest Pie]

Alex has touched a good point where he mentions partnerships. These are important, its not always the best individual skills that make the best player, but Smith alongside a prolific goalscorer would be a great partner for such a player.

 

Its not even about partnerships. The entire team played better with Smith dropping off and linkup up intelligently, as opposed to tussling with defenders (Viduka) or displaying clown like touches (Martins, Ameobi). Ball retention was higher, there were more team attacking moves, simply because we werent losing the ball as soon as it was played forward, and we looked a better unit all round as a result.

 

 

Which is why I've been banging on for ages that our best pairing up front is Owen and Smith.

Indeed.

[Howaythelads]

Good player. His versatility is useful. Played well at the weekend. Not going to change a game on his own but that's not what his is here for. He is steady. He keeps the shape of the side very well indeed. He is far more disciplined in that than people give him credit for. He got slated for his play on the right, but there again, that isnt his position. However, he did a disciplined job there. We have a wide player who has done f*** all but some people seem to rate him.

People should concentrate on the real problems rather a fella who is not going to be guaranteed a game in midfield soon. He isnt first choice in that department but I'd have him up front certainly. Viduka is far too injury prone and I'm not sure I want to be relying on Shola. He worked very well with Martins.

In short, Smith is getting grief for the wrong reasons. If he wasnt there this weekend then its Ameobi. Allardyce wont play the two little one. That in itself is a different issue.

Of the two ex Leeds players (from their academy) he is in a different league to the spotty one.

 

Correct.

[Parky]

Good player. His versatility is useful. Played well at the weekend. Not going to change a game on his own but that's not what his is here for. He is steady. He keeps the shape of the side very well indeed. He is far more disciplined in that than people give him credit for. He got slated for his play on the right, but there again, that isnt his position. However, he did a disciplined job there. We have a wide player who has done f*** all but some people seem to rate him.

People should concentrate on the real problems rather a fella who is not going to be guaranteed a game in midfield soon. He isnt first choice in that department but I'd have him up front certainly. Viduka is far too injury prone and I'm not sure I want to be relying on Shola. He worked very well with Martins.

In short, Smith is getting grief for the wrong reasons. If he wasnt there this weekend then its Ameobi. Allardyce wont play the two little one. That in itself is a different issue.

Of the two ex Leeds players (from their academy) he is in a different league to the spotty one.

 

Correct.

 

 

Good points to consider.

[Guest jimmy1982]

Alex has touched a good point where he mentions partnerships. These are important, its not always the best individual skills that make the best player, but Smith alongside a prolific goalscorer would be a great partner for such a player.

 

Its not even about partnerships. The entire team played better with Smith dropping off and linkup up intelligently, as opposed to tussling with defenders (Viduka) or displaying clown like touches (Martins, Ameobi). Ball retention was higher, there were more team attacking moves, simply because we werent losing the ball as soon as it was played forward, and we looked a better unit all round as a result.

 

 

Which is why I've been banging on for ages that our best pairing up front is Owen and Smith.

 

I can see Smith and Owen working nicely. Although obviously Viduka is a far superior individual player with the ball at his feet I think we will end up knocking it up to him all the time and expecting him to spin his man and either get a shot in himself or play Martins/Owen/Zogs etc in on goal. I've said before that is a fair enough game plan at this stage, with so much rebuilding taking place and alot of players regaining confidence and remembering/learning how to play together after the mess of the last few seasons.

However, hopefully over the course of this season we'd see a move towards more carefully and reliably constructed attacks, and for that we'd need a more mobile front man who'd have the team keeping its shape, bringing others into the game and generally playing to a system rather relying on a bit of inspiration. That is the best way for us to get results these days, as unfortunately we haven't got a Beardo who we can expect to pick up the ball on the half way line, beat 3 men and then slip Owen in for an easy one on one. It always helps if you can defend from the front and  that is one thing Smith shares with Beardsley, and which could help to improve us as a team  especially away from home as NE5 said.

Smith is not a 'top four' striker on his own but then you'd say neither are Crouch or Cisse yet Liverpool have been consistently top four and have won the Champions League. I'm not saying we should play like Liverpool but they are an example of a team whose players may not all stand out individually but can play together effectively.

[Howaythelads]

Alex has touched a good point where he mentions partnerships. These are important, its not always the best individual skills that make the best player, but Smith alongside a prolific goalscorer would be a great partner for such a player.

 

Its not even about partnerships. The entire team played better with Smith dropping off and linkup up intelligently, as opposed to tussling with defenders (Viduka) or displaying clown like touches (Martins, Ameobi). Ball retention was higher, there were more team attacking moves, simply because we werent losing the ball as soon as it was played forward, and we looked a better unit all round as a result.

 

 

Which is why I've been banging on for ages that our best pairing up front is Owen and Smith.

 

I can see Smith and Owen working nicely. Although obviously Viduka is a far superior individual player with the ball at his feet I think we will end up knocking it up to him all the time and expecting him to spin his man and either get a shot in himself or play Martins/Owen/Zogs etc in on goal. I've said before that is a fair enough game plan at this stage, with so much rebuilding taking place and alot of players regaining confidence and remembering/learning how to play together after the mess of the last few seasons.

However, hopefully over the course of this season we'd see a move towards more carefully and reliably constructed attacks, and for that we'd need a more mobile front man who'd have the team keeping its shape, bringing others into the game and generally playing to a system rather relying on a bit of inspiration. That is the best way for us to get results these days, as unfortunately we haven't got a Beardo who we can expect to pick up the ball on the half way line, beat 3 men and then slip Owen in for an easy one on one. It always helps if you can defend from the front and  that is one thing Smith shares with Beardsley, and which could help to improve us as a team  especially away from home as NE5 said.

Smith is not a 'top four' striker on his own but then you'd say neither are Crouch or Cisse yet Liverpool have been consistently top four and have won the Champions League. I'm not saying we should play like Liverpool but they are an example of a team whose players may not all stand out individually but can play together effectively.

 

 

Another very good post.

 

The team is paramount but some people still don't seem able to understand this. However, from reading this thread I'd say the sensible people who do understand the importance of the team are in the majority on here right now. A good thing, imo.

 

The hatred of certain players over the last few years is quite staggering. I'm talking of Bowyer and Smith here.

 

Here's an example. It was obvious from very early on  that the midfield pairing of Emre/Parker didn't work and wouldn't work, we looked far better when Parker was out and Bowyer was in. This wasn't because Bowyer is a superb individual player, it was because the team balance was better by bringing in that type of player. Many couldn't see it though and I believe this was due to their hatred of the person. I think the same is happening to Smith, although to a lesser extent because it seems most people who can see past the ends of the nose can see what he can bring to the team if used consistently as a striker.

 

[johnnypd]

"Here's an example. It was obvious from very early on  that the midfield pairing of Emre/Parker didn't work and wouldn't work, we looked far better when Parker was out and Bowyer was in. This wasn't because Bowyer is a superb individual player, it was because the team balance was better by bringing in that type of player. Many couldn't see it though and I believe this was due to their hatred of the person. I think the same is happening to Smith, although to a lesser extent because it seems most people who can see past the ends of the nose can see what he can bring to the team if used consistently as a striker."

 

not quite, the reason was because having Parker out freed up Emre to take on the attacking side of the game, with someone like Butt  (or even faye!) in behind acting as a disciplined anchor man who would hold his position, rather than having Emre relegated to playing deep with Parker trying to be the box-to-box gloryboy. Bowyer was largely irrelevent to the debate, he was crap for the majority of his time here and it would be extremely charitable to say he had a dozen half-decent games. you put your neck out when he signed saying he was a good player and felt you had to persist in supporting him even though he was such an obvious failure. a noble cause but since he no longer plays for us it is pointless to carry on with it.

 

As for Smith, i'm his biggest critic when he plays in midfield, where i think he'll play the majority of his games. but up front, i think i was the first on here to say he'd be a better partner for Owen than Viduka, despite the fact that Viduka is the better player. Viduka doesn't have the pace, movement or strength to be ideal foil for Owen, or to compensate for Owen's weaknesses so that we're not unbalanced as a side, whereas Smith, to an extent, does. the problem with this is that he is very much a blunt instrument, he has very little creative ability and has an awful strike rate - all he does is help out his strike-partner, and to a lesser extent, the attacking midfielders, like a heskey type. he brings others into play and holds onto the ball well, as he is strong and has good control and passing and -crucially- solid, workmanlike movement into the right areas. but he is not going to make space with an audacious flick and turn, or play through an unorthodox through ball that fools the opposition, or cause panic with a quick dash down the flank a la bellamy. he's more darren bent as Charlton targetman, rather than Berbatov, Bergkamp or Beardsley, doing everything pretty well, but not amazingly well.

 

by playing him up front you are effectively putting all your eggs in one basket and sacrificing one forward for the rest of the side and specifically for his strike partner. considering one of his potential strike partners is a virtual cripple who has no ability to create on his own, and the other a very much hit-and-miss livewire, and then taking into account that none of our midfielders are liable to get into, or even near, double figures, we can't afford to play a striker who is going to get less than half a dozen goals all season. the rest of our team isn't talented enough that we can afford to have someone like smith playing up front, and besides if we did, he is not good enough to get the best out of them anyway. yes he helps the side stay balanced, and give us shape along the length of the pitch, but he won't do anything exceptional. maybe if we had Elano or Fabregas in midfield, or a fit Owen, or a more refined Martins up front, it would be different and i could see why we'd need a Heskey type to play a subservient role to other 'stars' in the side. in the medium term, if Owen stays here and stays reasonably fit (i dont think he'll ever have an impeccable fitness record again tho) and we are looking to acquire a partner for him, i'd rather we went for another support striker who is a threat in-himself, rather than an auxillary striker who simply works for others.

 

Saying all that, i'm not against using Smith as a foil for Owen in the short-term, or at least while Owen is fit, but i don't think he is a long-term answer up front. Smith-Owen up front, when all are fit, is arguably the best combination at the club, though there is perhaps an equally strong case for Viduka-Martins being just as good. If anything it shows that we are still short of quality as a cohesive unit. i suppose it comes down to whether you think Owen is good enough, or reliable enough, that we build the attack around him. personally i don't think he is.

[NE5]

some fair points Johnny, but personally I think we should be lookign to the future without Owen, Martins and Viduka in the long term too.

 

I don't count Ameobi, he's not at the races.

 

Smith on his own merits is a good player up front, but not a prolific goalscorer. I think also in the long term, you ie we, need at least one midfield player who gets into the box and scores goals, you also need a wide player who will chip in with goals.

 

You need to spread goals around. Good teams have this, its part of their unpredictability and strength in depth. So Smith not being prolific doesn't worry me too much, I see him as being one of a few players who will chip in with goals and contribute a lot to the team ethic - and other things - albeit with a prolific partner.

 

We really need at least 2 more forwards at Newcastle, one to go straight into the team and take the place of Martins and/or Owen, because I honestly will be surprised if they are both still here in 18 months or 2 years time.

 

 

[johnnypd]

some fair points Johnny, but personally I think we should be lookign to the future without Owen, Martins and Viduka in the long term too.

 

I don't count Ameobi, he's not at the races.

 

Smith on his own merits is a good player up front, but not a prolific goalscorer. I think also in the long term, you ie we, need at least one midfield player who gets into the box and scores goals, you also need a wide player who will chip in with goals.

 

You need to spread goals around. Good teams have this, its part of their unpredictability and strength in depth. So Smith not being prolific doesn't worry me too much, I see him as being one of a few players who will chip in with goals and contribute a lot to the team ethic - and other things - albeit with a prolific partner.

 

We really need at least 2 more forwards at Newcastle, one to go straight into the team and take the place of Martins and/or Owen, because I honestly will be surprised if they are both still here in 18 months or 2 years time.

 

 

 

Agreed. you also echo the same idea i was getting at, we need goals from all round the pitch. at the minute we don't have many people who are going to contribute goals outside of the forwards, perhaps Barton will be this player, N'Zogbia is another but even on his top form he doesn't score huge amounts. for that reason i don't think we can really go with Smith as he himself scores very few and then we're left completely reliant on one striker to score every game. I don't think Owen-Viduka will work too well for the reasons outlined above, though it would work better if we had pace elsewhere in the team to compensate for those two being fairly leaden and both at least guarantee goals.

 

I think Allardyce will look to get rid of Martins and Owen, i definitely don't see either being here at the end of next season, in fact i suspect he was trying to flog both of them in the summer. in the immediate term (january) we have other positions to fill rather than buy another striker, right-wing for instance. anyway the issue of which two strikers we play up front will be a moot point if we end up playing Big Sam's 4-3-3.

[TRon]

some fair points Johnny, but personally I think we should be lookign to the future without Owen, Martins and Viduka in the long term too.

 

I don't count Ameobi, he's not at the races.

 

Smith on his own merits is a good player up front, but not a prolific goalscorer. I think also in the long term, you ie we, need at least one midfield player who gets into the box and scores goals, you also need a wide player who will chip in with goals.

 

You need to spread goals around. Good teams have this, its part of their unpredictability and strength in depth. So Smith not being prolific doesn't worry me too much, I see him as being one of a few players who will chip in with goals and contribute a lot to the team ethic - and other things - albeit with a prolific partner.

 

We really need at least 2 more forwards at Newcastle, one to go straight into the team and take the place of Martins and/or Owen, because I honestly will be surprised if they are both still here in 18 months or 2 years time.

 

 

 

Agreed. you also echo the same idea i was getting at, we need goals from all round the pitch. at the minute we don't have many people who are going to contribute goals outside of the forwards, perhaps Barton will be this player, N'Zogbia is another but even on his top form he doesn't score huge amounts. for that reason i don't think we can really go with Smith as he himself scores very few and then we're left completely reliant on one striker to score every game.

 

That's one of the criticisms I have of Milner. It's not that he's a bad player as such, but he doesn't have enough in his locker to make up for his shortcomings. Top wide players get their share of goals and Milner isn't shaping up like a player who will do that any time soon.

 

Smith's done some good work when he's played up front and i think he can do a good job up there, as can Viduka IMO, but even secondary strikers need to get some goals. You'd hope that with a run in the side he might sart getting into the groove of being a striker again but really hope shouldn't be part of the equation, long term in any case.

 

 

[Parky]

some fair points Johnny, but personally I think we should be lookign to the future without Owen, Martins and Viduka in the long term too.

 

I don't count Ameobi, he's not at the races.

 

Smith on his own merits is a good player up front, but not a prolific goalscorer. I think also in the long term, you ie we, need at least one midfield player who gets into the box and scores goals, you also need a wide player who will chip in with goals.

 

You need to spread goals around. Good teams have this, its part of their unpredictability and strength in depth. So Smith not being prolific doesn't worry me too much, I see him as being one of a few players who will chip in with goals and contribute a lot to the team ethic - and other things - albeit with a prolific partner.

 

We really need at least 2 more forwards at Newcastle, one to go straight into the team and take the place of Martins and/or Owen, because I honestly will be surprised if they are both still here in 18 months or 2 years time.

 

 

 

Agreed. you also echo the same idea i was getting at, we need goals from all round the pitch. at the minute we don't have many people who are going to contribute goals outside of the forwards, perhaps Barton will be this player, N'Zogbia is another but even on his top form he doesn't score huge amounts. for that reason i don't think we can really go with Smith as he himself scores very few and then we're left completely reliant on one striker to score every game. I don't think Owen-Viduka will work too well for the reasons outlined above, though it would work better if we had pace elsewhere in the team to compensate for those two being fairly leaden and both at least guarantee goals.

 

I think Allardyce will look to get rid of Martins and Owen, i definitely don't see either being here at the end of next season, in fact i suspect he was trying to flog both of them in the summer. in the immediate term (january) we have other positions to fill rather than buy another striker, right-wing for instance. anyway the issue of which two strikers we play up front will be a moot point if we end up playing Big Sam's 4-3-3.

 

He did his utter best to get rid of one of them...All that talk of clauses etc..

[Guest jimmy1982]

Another very good post.

 

The team is paramount but some people still don't seem able to understand this. However, from reading this thread I'd say the sensible people who do understand the importance of the team are in the majority on here right now. A good thing, imo.

 

The hatred of certain players over the last few years is quite staggering. I'm talking of Bowyer and Smith here.

 

Here's an example. It was obvious from very early on  that the midfield pairing of Emre/Parker didn't work and wouldn't work, we looked far better when Parker was out and Bowyer was in. This wasn't because Bowyer is a superb individual player, it was because the team balance was better by bringing in that type of player. Many couldn't see it though and I believe this was due to their hatred of the person. I think the same is happening to Smith, although to a lesser extent because it seems most people who can see past the ends of the nose can see what he can bring to the team if used consistently as a striker.

 

 

Aye, we need to look at the big picture. Its no good getting on someone's back just because he's not creating a chance or scoring everytime he gets the ball, which is what some people seem to think is the basic requirement for an attacking player. As long as each player plays some part in helping us to impose our gameplan on the opposition and contain theirs over 90 minutes then he is doing a great job for us. With Sam I'm confident that, once he's had a while to get them playing together, if each player does his job, no matter ho unpsectacularly, we'll come away with results against most teams. With Roeder and Souness you couldn't say that cos it didn't look like there was much of a gameplan at times.

[Howaythelads]

"Here's an example. It was obvious from very early on  that the midfield pairing of Emre/Parker didn't work and wouldn't work, we looked far better when Parker was out and Bowyer was in. This wasn't because Bowyer is a superb individual player, it was because the team balance was better by bringing in that type of player. Many couldn't see it though and I believe this was due to their hatred of the person. I think the same is happening to Smith, although to a lesser extent because it seems most people who can see past the ends of the nose can see what he can bring to the team if used consistently as a striker."

 

not quite, the reason was because having Parker out freed up Emre to take on the attacking side of the game, with someone like Butt  (or even faye!) in behind acting as a disciplined anchor man who would hold his position, rather than having Emre relegated to playing deep with Parker trying to be the box-to-box gloryboy. Bowyer was largely irrelevent to the debate, he was crap for the majority of his time here and it would be extremely charitable to say he had a dozen half-decent games. you put your neck out when he signed saying he was a good player and felt you had to persist in supporting him even though he was such an obvious failure. a noble cause but since he no longer plays for us it is pointless to carry on with it.

 

As for Smith, i'm his biggest critic when he plays in midfield, where i think he'll play the majority of his games. but up front, i think i was the first on here to say he'd be a better partner for Owen than Viduka, despite the fact that Viduka is the better player. Viduka doesn't have the pace, movement or strength to be ideal foil for Owen, or to compensate for Owen's weaknesses so that we're not unbalanced as a side, whereas Smith, to an extent, does. the problem with this is that he is very much a blunt instrument, he has very little creative ability and has an awful strike rate - all he does is help out his strike-partner, and to a lesser extent, the attacking midfielders, like a heskey type. he brings others into play and holds onto the ball well, as he is strong and has good control and passing and -crucially- solid, workmanlike movement into the right areas. but he is not going to make space with an audacious flick and turn, or play through an unorthodox through ball that fools the opposition, or cause panic with a quick dash down the flank a la bellamy. he's more darren bent as Charlton targetman, rather than Berbatov, Bergkamp or Beardsley, doing everything pretty well, but not amazingly well.

 

by playing him up front you are effectively putting all your eggs in one basket and sacrificing one forward for the rest of the side and specifically for his strike partner. considering one of his potential strike partners is a virtual cripple who has no ability to create on his own, and the other a very much hit-and-miss livewire, and then taking into account that none of our midfielders are liable to get into, or even near, double figures, we can't afford to play a striker who is going to get less than half a dozen goals all season. the rest of our team isn't talented enough that we can afford to have someone like smith playing up front, and besides if we did, he is not good enough to get the best out of them anyway. yes he helps the side stay balanced, and give us shape along the length of the pitch, but he won't do anything exceptional. maybe if we had Elano or Fabregas in midfield, or a fit Owen, or a more refined Martins up front, it would be different and i could see why we'd need a Heskey type to play a subservient role to other 'stars' in the side. in the medium term, if Owen stays here and stays reasonably fit (i dont think he'll ever have an impeccable fitness record again tho) and we are looking to acquire a partner for him, i'd rather we went for another support striker who is a threat in-himself, rather than an auxillary striker who simply works for others.

 

Saying all that, i'm not against using Smith as a foil for Owen in the short-term, or at least while Owen is fit, but i don't think he is a long-term answer up front. Smith-Owen up front, when all are fit, is arguably the best combination at the club, though there is perhaps an equally strong case for Viduka-Martins being just as good. If anything it shows that we are still short of quality as a cohesive unit. i suppose it comes down to whether you think Owen is good enough, or reliable enough, that we build the attack around him. personally i don't think he is.

 

Good post. Just a couple of points to make in response, mate.

 

See the "not quite" in bold.

 

I'm probably misunderstanding you here, but my example of Bowyer coming in and the "team" being better is the point I'm making. What you've done is reinforce that idea with another example but it kind of reads as though you disagree with me.

Probably down to me rushing the post and not explaining myself clearly enough, but that was my point in any case.

 

A couple of other things.

You mention Smith's "awful strike rate." Considering the logic in your overall post I'm surprised you've mentioned that given the fact he's spent most games playing as a midfielder. Unless you think a striker playing in midfield should also be judged as a striker, which I doubt you do. This renders the reference to "auxillary" redundant because it's a wait and see how Smith does if FS uses him as a striker like he should do. He may score some goals with a consistent run in his best position.

 

Not sure you're the first one on here to want to see Smith up front with Owen, but it doesn't matter really.

[johnnypd]

You mention Smith's "awful strike rate." Considering the logic in your overall post I'm surprised you've mentioned that given the fact he's spent most games playing as a midfielder. Unless you think a striker playing in midfield should also be judged as a striker, which I doubt you do. This renders the reference to "auxillary" redundant because it's a wait and see how Smith does if FS uses him as a striker like he should do. He may score some goals with a consistent run in his best position.

 

a fair enough point, but he did spend a lot of his time at man utd playing up front too, for instance in his first season he only scored 6 league goals despite never playing anywhere else, and this is for man utd. to score goals he'll first have to put himself in the right positions and since his game has changed so much since he was 21, i think he'll find this difficult. you'll see owen put himself in a goalscoring position half a dozen times a game, martins 3 or 4 times, smith maybe once if he is lucky. a player won't get a shot away on all these occasions so his ability to score wil always be limited. a support striker will always have less chances to score but i bet Anelka, Bellamy or Viduka will end up having a lot more chances. also to further my earlier point, it's not just about goals but overall creativity as a whole team, i don't think we've enough creators in our side and having smith playing will do nothing to steer us away from one-dimensional football. however i think barton/emre will help in this regard, which makes me more receptive to the idea of Smith starting up front with Owen.

[Baggio]

You mention Smith's "awful strike rate." Considering the logic in your overall post I'm surprised you've mentioned that given the fact he's spent most games playing as a midfielder. Unless you think a striker playing in midfield should also be judged as a striker, which I doubt you do. This renders the reference to "auxillary" redundant because it's a wait and see how Smith does if FS uses him as a striker like he should do. He may score some goals with a consistent run in his best position.

 

a fair enough point, but he did spend a lot of his time at man utd playing up front too, for instance in his first season he only scored 6 league goals despite never playing anywhere else, and this is for man utd. to score goals he'll first have to put himself in the right positions and since his game has changed so much since he was 21, i think he'll find this difficult. you'll see owen put himself in a goalscoring position half a dozen times a game, martins 3 or 4 times, smith maybe once if he is lucky. a player won't get a shot away on all these occasions so his ability to score wil always be limited. a support striker will always have less chances to score but i bet Anelka, Bellamy or Viduka will end up having a lot more chances. also to further my earlier point, it's not just about goals but overall creativity as a whole team, i don't think we've enough creators in our side and having smith playing will do nothing to steer us away from one-dimensional football. however i think barton/emre will help in this regard, which makes me more receptive to the idea of Smith starting up front with Owen.

 

Good points, Johnny.

 

Where are all of the goals going to come from if Smith starts every week up top with Owen? You only have to look at who's scored for us over the past few seasons to see we've got nowhere near enough goalscorers in our side to accommodate a striker who's awful in front of goal.

 

People going way over the top after a half decent game against an average Everton team who were happy to sit back and let us put pressure on them.

[Baggio]

Alex has touched a good point where he mentions partnerships. These are important, its not always the best individual skills that make the best player, but Smith alongside a prolific goalscorer would be a great partner for such a player.

 

Its not even about partnerships. The entire team played better with Smith dropping off and linkup up intelligently, as opposed to tussling with defenders (Viduka) or displaying clown like touches (Martins, Ameobi). Ball retention was higher, there were more team attacking moves, simply because we werent losing the ball as soon as it was played forward, and we looked a better unit all round as a result.

 

 

Which is why I've been banging on for ages that our best pairing up front is Owen and Smith.

 

I can see Smith and Owen working nicely. Although obviously Viduka is a far superior individual player with the ball at his feet I think we will end up knocking it up to him all the time and expecting him to spin his man and either get a shot in himself or play Martins/Owen/Zogs etc in on goal. I've said before that is a fair enough game plan at this stage, with so much rebuilding taking place and alot of players regaining confidence and remembering/learning how to play together after the mess of the last few seasons.

However, hopefully over the course of this season we'd see a move towards more carefully and reliably constructed attacks, and for that we'd need a more mobile front man who'd have the team keeping its shape, bringing others into the game and generally playing to a system rather relying on a bit of inspiration. That is the best way for us to get results these days, as unfortunately we haven't got a Beardo who we can expect to pick up the ball on the half way line, beat 3 men and then slip Owen in for an easy one on one. It always helps if you can defend from the front and  that is one thing Smith shares with Beardsley, and which could help to improve us as a team  especially away from home as NE5 said.

Smith is not a 'top four' striker on his own but then you'd say neither are Crouch or Cisse yet Liverpool have been consistently top four and have won the Champions League. I'm not saying we should play like Liverpool but they are an example of a team whose players may not all stand out individually but can play together effectively.

 

 

Another very good post.

 

The team is paramount but some people still don't seem able to understand this. However, from reading this thread I'd say the sensible people who do understand the importance of the team are in the majority on here right now. A good thing, imo.

 

The hatred of certain players over the last few years is quite staggering. I'm talking of Bowyer and Smith here.

 

Here's an example. It was obvious from very early on  that the midfield pairing of Emre/Parker didn't work and wouldn't work, we looked far better when Parker was out and Bowyer was in. This wasn't because Bowyer is a superb individual player, it was because the team balance was better by bringing in that type of player. Many couldn't see it though and I believe this was due to their hatred of the person. I think the same is happening to Smith, although to a lesser extent because it seems most people who can see past the ends of the nose can see what he can bring to the team if used consistently as a striker.

 

 

Bowyer was awful for us, if you got off your arse and went to games you would know this.

 

As for people hating Smith, most have just pointed out how awful he's been for us this season which you struggle to get your head around.

[Baggio]

Good player. His versatility is useful. Played well at the weekend. Not going to change a game on his own but that's not what his is here for. He is steady. He keeps the shape of the side very well indeed. He is far more disciplined in that than people give him credit for. He got slated for his play on the right, but there again, that isnt his position. However, he did a disciplined job there. We have a wide player who has done f*** all but some people seem to rate him.

People should concentrate on the real problems rather a fella who is not going to be guaranteed a game in midfield soon. He isnt first choice in that department but I'd have him up front certainly. Viduka is far too injury prone and I'm not sure I want to be relying on Shola. He worked very well with Martins.

In short, Smith is getting grief for the wrong reasons. If he wasnt there this weekend then its Ameobi. Allardyce wont play the two little one. That in itself is a different issue.

Of the two ex Leeds players (from their academy) he is in a different league to the spotty one.

 

Alot of people often underestimate the importance of that.

 

shape and balance of the team is paramount.

 

Or could it be not having him on the wing and having two natural wingers out wide and a proper left back helped keep the shape of the team?

[Guest alex]

Both, probably.

[johnnypd]

don't think the shape of the side, across the width of the pitch, was particularly good against everton, but i put that down to having milner and n'zogbia on the wrong sides. the shape of the side along the length of the pitch was good, as smith has presence and keeps the ball well, whereas viduka has a tendency to faff on in midfield and leave his strike partner isolated.

[Baggio]

don't think the shape of the side, across the width of the pitch, was particularly good against everton, but i put that down to having milner and n'zogbia on the wrong sides. the shape of the side along the length of the pitch was good, as smith has presence and keeps the ball well, whereas viduka has a tendency to faff on in midfield and leave his strike partner isolated.

 

I don't agree with that either, I can't think of many in the Premiership who can retain the ball better than Viduka, certainly nobody at the club at the moment, against West Ham he was unplayable and they just could not get the ball off him, the difference in our strike force is when Martins plays on the shoulder of the last man which forces the opposition defence to drop deep in fear that his pace will get behind them, the difference in that was witnessed between both halves against WH, first half we played too deep and the second half we stretched the game by adding pace to the attack.

 

The problem with our midfield at the moment is all of them look to have been purchased with a 4-3-3 in mind, which is why when we play with a 4-4-2 that none of them seem willing to bring the ball forward, Smith did do a decent job of trying to link up midfield and attack but it wasn't anything spectacular, I fully expect Barton to do this job when he's fully fit and in the team every week as that is what his game is about, it'll also leave us with 2 strikers up top capable of getting double figures each over the season.

 

If Smith's link up play was that good then why didn't he do it while playing as a midfielder in a midfield 3? That is the whole idea of the role yet he was awful playing there.

[Howaythelads]

Alex has touched a good point where he mentions partnerships. These are important, its not always the best individual skills that make the best player, but Smith alongside a prolific goalscorer would be a great partner for such a player.

 

Its not even about partnerships. The entire team played better with Smith dropping off and linkup up intelligently, as opposed to tussling with defenders (Viduka) or displaying clown like touches (Martins, Ameobi). Ball retention was higher, there were more team attacking moves, simply because we werent losing the ball as soon as it was played forward, and we looked a better unit all round as a result.

 

 

Which is why I've been banging on for ages that our best pairing up front is Owen and Smith.

 

I can see Smith and Owen working nicely. Although obviously Viduka is a far superior individual player with the ball at his feet I think we will end up knocking it up to him all the time and expecting him to spin his man and either get a shot in himself or play Martins/Owen/Zogs etc in on goal. I've said before that is a fair enough game plan at this stage, with so much rebuilding taking place and alot of players regaining confidence and remembering/learning how to play together after the mess of the last few seasons.

However, hopefully over the course of this season we'd see a move towards more carefully and reliably constructed attacks, and for that we'd need a more mobile front man who'd have the team keeping its shape, bringing others into the game and generally playing to a system rather relying on a bit of inspiration. That is the best way for us to get results these days, as unfortunately we haven't got a Beardo who we can expect to pick up the ball on the half way line, beat 3 men and then slip Owen in for an easy one on one. It always helps if you can defend from the front and  that is one thing Smith shares with Beardsley, and which could help to improve us as a team  especially away from home as NE5 said.

Smith is not a 'top four' striker on his own but then you'd say neither are Crouch or Cisse yet Liverpool have been consistently top four and have won the Champions League. I'm not saying we should play like Liverpool but they are an example of a team whose players may not all stand out individually but can play together effectively.

 

 

Another very good post.

 

The team is paramount but some people still don't seem able to understand this. However, from reading this thread I'd say the sensible people who do understand the importance of the team are in the majority on here right now. A good thing, imo.

 

The hatred of certain players over the last few years is quite staggering. I'm talking of Bowyer and Smith here.

 

Here's an example. It was obvious from very early on  that the midfield pairing of Emre/Parker didn't work and wouldn't work, we looked far better when Parker was out and Bowyer was in. This wasn't because Bowyer is a superb individual player, it was because the team balance was better by bringing in that type of player. Many couldn't see it though and I believe this was due to their hatred of the person. I think the same is happening to Smith, although to a lesser extent because it seems most people who can see past the ends of the nose can see what he can bring to the team if used consistently as a striker.

 

 

Bowyer was awful for us, if you got off your arse and went to games you would know this.

 

As for people hating Smith, most have just pointed out how awful he's been for us this season which you struggle to get your head around.

 

By concentrating on the ability of the individual you once again miss the point. I'm not surprised.

[johnnypd]

don't think the shape of the side, across the width of the pitch, was particularly good against everton, but i put that down to having milner and n'zogbia on the wrong sides. the shape of the side along the length of the pitch was good, as smith has presence and keeps the ball well, whereas viduka has a tendency to faff on in midfield and leave his strike partner isolated.

 

I don't agree with that either, I can't think of many in the Premiership who can retain the ball better than Viduka, certainly nobody at the club at the moment, against West Ham he was unplayable and they just could not get the ball off him, the difference in our strike force is when Martins plays on the shoulder of the last man which forces the opposition defence to drop deep in fear that his pace will get behind them, the difference in that was witnessed between both halves against WH, first half we played too deep and the second half we stretched the game by adding pace to the attack.

 

The problem with our midfield at the moment is all of them look to have been purchased with a 4-3-3 in mind, which is why when we play with a 4-4-2 that none of them seem willing to bring the ball forward, Smith did do a decent job of trying to link up midfield and attack but it wasn't anything spectacular, I fully expect Barton to do this job when he's fully fit and in the team every week as that is what his game is about, it'll also leave us with 2 strikers up top capable of getting double figures each over the season.

 

If Smith's link up play was that good then why didn't he do it while playing as a midfielder in a midfield 3? That is the whole idea of the role yet he was awful playing there.

 

I agree that Smith's link-up play is nothing special, but i was more referring to his physical presence and movement, which combined with his decent control means he can hold the ball up and bring others into play. he's not going to use a brilliant piece of skill or make an unexpected pass to split a defence, unlike viduka. But viduka on the other hand does not hold the line well, or at all, is suprisingly weak, fails to compete for aerial passes and has little to no movement across the pitch and ends up dropping into midfield, leaving his strike partner isolated. judged solely on these elements Smith is better. tho i also agree with what you are saying with Martins, which is why i think Martins-Viduka is better than Martins-Smith, cos with Martins playing on the shoulder and using his pace, there's less need for Smith to lead the line, and more need for a skillful player with vision to thread through passes. However with Owen we need someone with Smith's limited abilities more than a Viduka type.

[Baggio]

Alex has touched a good point where he mentions partnerships. These are important, its not always the best individual skills that make the best player, but Smith alongside a prolific goalscorer would be a great partner for such a player.

 

Its not even about partnerships. The entire team played better with Smith dropping off and linkup up intelligently, as opposed to tussling with defenders (Viduka) or displaying clown like touches (Martins, Ameobi). Ball retention was higher, there were more team attacking moves, simply because we werent losing the ball as soon as it was played forward, and we looked a better unit all round as a result.

 

 

Which is why I've been banging on for ages that our best pairing up front is Owen and Smith.

 

I can see Smith and Owen working nicely. Although obviously Viduka is a far superior individual player with the ball at his feet I think we will end up knocking it up to him all the time and expecting him to spin his man and either get a shot in himself or play Martins/Owen/Zogs etc in on goal. I've said before that is a fair enough game plan at this stage, with so much rebuilding taking place and alot of players regaining confidence and remembering/learning how to play together after the mess of the last few seasons.

However, hopefully over the course of this season we'd see a move towards more carefully and reliably constructed attacks, and for that we'd need a more mobile front man who'd have the team keeping its shape, bringing others into the game and generally playing to a system rather relying on a bit of inspiration. That is the best way for us to get results these days, as unfortunately we haven't got a Beardo who we can expect to pick up the ball on the half way line, beat 3 men and then slip Owen in for an easy one on one. It always helps if you can defend from the front and  that is one thing Smith shares with Beardsley, and which could help to improve us as a team  especially away from home as NE5 said.

Smith is not a 'top four' striker on his own but then you'd say neither are Crouch or Cisse yet Liverpool have been consistently top four and have won the Champions League. I'm not saying we should play like Liverpool but they are an example of a team whose players may not all stand out individually but can play together effectively.

 

 

Another very good post.

 

The team is paramount but some people still don't seem able to understand this. However, from reading this thread I'd say the sensible people who do understand the importance of the team are in the majority on here right now. A good thing, imo.

 

The hatred of certain players over the last few years is quite staggering. I'm talking of Bowyer and Smith here.

 

Here's an example. It was obvious from very early on  that the midfield pairing of Emre/Parker didn't work and wouldn't work, we looked far better when Parker was out and Bowyer was in. This wasn't because Bowyer is a superb individual player, it was because the team balance was better by bringing in that type of player. Many couldn't see it though and I believe this was due to their hatred of the person. I think the same is happening to Smith, although to a lesser extent because it seems most people who can see past the ends of the nose can see what he can bring to the team if used consistently as a striker.

 

 

Bowyer was awful for us, if you got off your arse and went to games you would know this.

 

As for people hating Smith, most have just pointed out how awful he's been for us this season which you struggle to get your head around.

 

By concentrating on the ability of the individual you once again miss the point. I'm not surprised.

 

Quite clearly it's you missing the point, Bowyer was a poor player for us for the majority of his time here yet just because we picked up when Roeder was caretaker manager you somehow put it down to Parker being out injured and Bowyer being in the team, conveniently ignoring that the run we went on was against piss easy teams yet we still had our asses handed to us when we faced better clubs.

 

I take it this is where you waffle on about how we all have a bias opinion because of what he done in McDonalds when he was a teenager. Tit.

[Baggio]

Just had a look back through the old stats where you think we were a better team when Bowyer was in and Parker was out, it turns out that the run of good games you seem to be talking about consisted of 2 full games and an 8 minute appearance before going off injured.

 

The last game Parker played was the 3-1 loss to Charlton, we then beat Spurs 3-1 at home, beat Boro away 2-1 before Bowyer went off injured after 8 minutes against Wigan and we were 1-0 down at the time, that was his last appearance that season too.

 

 

Another idiot trying to re write history.

[Howaythelads]

Alex has touched a good point where he mentions partnerships. These are important, its not always the best individual skills that make the best player, but Smith alongside a prolific goalscorer would be a great partner for such a player.

 

Its not even about partnerships. The entire team played better with Smith dropping off and linkup up intelligently, as opposed to tussling with defenders (Viduka) or displaying clown like touches (Martins, Ameobi). Ball retention was higher, there were more team attacking moves, simply because we werent losing the ball as soon as it was played forward, and we looked a better unit all round as a result.

 

 

Which is why I've been banging on for ages that our best pairing up front is Owen and Smith.

 

I can see Smith and Owen working nicely. Although obviously Viduka is a far superior individual player with the ball at his feet I think we will end up knocking it up to him all the time and expecting him to spin his man and either get a shot in himself or play Martins/Owen/Zogs etc in on goal. I've said before that is a fair enough game plan at this stage, with so much rebuilding taking place and alot of players regaining confidence and remembering/learning how to play together after the mess of the last few seasons.

However, hopefully over the course of this season we'd see a move towards more carefully and reliably constructed attacks, and for that we'd need a more mobile front man who'd have the team keeping its shape, bringing others into the game and generally playing to a system rather relying on a bit of inspiration. That is the best way for us to get results these days, as unfortunately we haven't got a Beardo who we can expect to pick up the ball on the half way line, beat 3 men and then slip Owen in for an easy one on one. It always helps if you can defend from the front and  that is one thing Smith shares with Beardsley, and which could help to improve us as a team  especially away from home as NE5 said.

Smith is not a 'top four' striker on his own but then you'd say neither are Crouch or Cisse yet Liverpool have been consistently top four and have won the Champions League. I'm not saying we should play like Liverpool but they are an example of a team whose players may not all stand out individually but can play together effectively.

 

 

Another very good post.

 

The team is paramount but some people still don't seem able to understand this. However, from reading this thread I'd say the sensible people who do understand the importance of the team are in the majority on here right now. A good thing, imo.

 

The hatred of certain players over the last few years is quite staggering. I'm talking of Bowyer and Smith here.

 

Here's an example. It was obvious from very early on  that the midfield pairing of Emre/Parker didn't work and wouldn't work, we looked far better when Parker was out and Bowyer was in. This wasn't because Bowyer is a superb individual player, it was because the team balance was better by bringing in that type of player. Many couldn't see it though and I believe this was due to their hatred of the person. I think the same is happening to Smith, although to a lesser extent because it seems most people who can see past the ends of the nose can see what he can bring to the team if used consistently as a striker.

 

 

Bowyer was awful for us, if you got off your arse and went to games you would know this.

 

As for people hating Smith, most have just pointed out how awful he's been for us this season which you struggle to get your head around.

 

By concentrating on the ability of the individual you once again miss the point. I'm not surprised.

 

Quite clearly it's you missing the point, Bowyer was a poor player for us for the majority of his time here yet just because we picked up when Roeder was caretaker manager you somehow put it down to Parker being out injured and Bowyer being in the team, conveniently ignoring that the run we went on was against piss easy teams yet we still had our asses handed to us when we faced better clubs.

 

I take it this is where you waffle on about how we all have a bias opinion because of what he done in McDonalds when he was a teenager. Tit.

 

Tough guy....