The Times today speculated that the players have turned on Allardyce

[Guest alex]

We only had 10 men against B'ham.

And? Does getting a player sent off for a ridiculous defensive error improve that performance then?

[tmonkey]

We'd capitulated at home to absolute s**** like Sheff Utd already at this stage last year. We also never scored at home after the Alkmaar game. Fair enough if you think we're as bad but I don't see us as being worse. I reckon we'll finish higher than last season too.

 

But our squad is much better this season. Thats the main reason why we're not quite as bad - instead of Sibierski, we have Viduka. Instead of Pattison getting a game in midfield, we have Smith. No more Carr, Babayaro, Ramage or Huntington out of position, we have Beye, Geremi and Enrique, infinitely better players.

 

Yet we're not far off being as bad as we were under Roeder/Souness purely because of Big Sam's tactics and mentality.

 

Its hard to back a man who is causing his own downfall.

[ChezGiven]

Even though  Liverpool didn't score at least six, as they should have done, I think you can count the performance up there with the B'ham game. If not, you are splitting hairs as both games were diabolical. Does the degree really matter?

 

Opposition was worlds apart though.

 

Massive difference in the teams we had out though. Ramage, Huntington, Pattison, Sibierski were in that team as half the squad was out injured. And Taylor was sent off too.

 

I agree with Sniffer. I think the performance was worse against Liverpool for the players we had out there. We were torn to shreds practically every time they attacked, schoolboy defending would be an understatement. That wasnt the case against Birmingham, who put their chances away but essentially merely took advantage of poor squad depth, reserve players not good enough for top flight football, complacency under a shiite manager, and a sending off.

 

Are you saying Liverpool were about as good as Birmingham and we were worse on sat?

[Guest alex]

We'd capitulated at home to absolute s**** like Sheff Utd already at this stage last year. We also never scored at home after the Alkmaar game. Fair enough if you think we're as bad but I don't see us as being worse. I reckon we'll finish higher than last season too.

 

But our squad is much better this season. Thats the main reason why we're not as bad - instead of Sibierski, we have Viduka. Instead of Pattison getting a game in midfield, we have Smith. No more Carr, Babayaro, Ramage or Huntington out of position, we have Beye, Geremi and Enrique, infinitely better players.

 

Yet we're not far off being as bad as we were under Roeder/Souness purely because of Big Sam's tactics and mentality.

 

Its hard to back a man who is causing his own downfall.

If the squad is so much better that's thanks to the manager then, eh? I agree he needs to improve on the tactical performances of late though.

[Mr. Snrub]

I don't how else to say it: people need to either back the team or shut the fuck up, for a few months at least.

 

So everyone should just pretend everything is going fine and not be allowed to voice concerns about shite we currently are?

 

Keep it up Big Sam, you're doing a terrific job!

 

Yeah, basically. What's booing and chanting going to do other than heap pressure on an already pressurised manager and group of players? If everyone tries to get behind him, we can at least say we gave him a fair crack at the whip.

 

That would be all well and good if we were playing even half decent football and trying to win games and just not getting the breaks.

 

As it is, Allardyce's tactics, decisions and style of play have been diabolical.  If we don't voice our disproval he's not going to get the message that things need to change ASAP. 

 

When people are paying hard earned money to watch them not be able to string more than 2 passes together or not  have 1 shot on target they are well within their rights to boo and chant at the manager.

 

 

[Guest alex]

Why wasn't Souness boo'ed so early in his tenure I wonder? Why did he get so long? Because I have canny bit more confidence in Allardyce's ability than I did his.

[Parky]

Why wasn't Souness boo'ed so early in his tenure I wonder? Why did he get so long? Because I have canny bit more confidence in Allardyce's ability than I did his.

 

The expectation that comes with the new owner is working against SA imo.

[Guest alex]

Why wasn't Souness boo'ed so early in his tenure I wonder? Why did he get so long? Because I have canny bit more confidence in Allardyce's ability than I did his.

 

The expectation that comes with the new owner is working against SA imo.

Possibly but anecdotal evidence would suggest a huge amount of people were against Souness from the off but the vocal disapproval at the match was virtually nonexistent. I'm wondering why those people who made their feelings known on Saturday were so quiet for so long back then.

[jep]

That would be all well and good if we were playing even half decent football and trying to win games and just not getting the breaks.

 

As it is, Allardyce's tactics, decisions and style of play have been diabolical.  If we don't voice our disproval he's not going to get the message that things need to change ASAP. 

 

When people are paying hard earned money to watch them not be able to string more than 2 passes together or not  have 1 shot on target they are well within their rights to boo and chant at the manager.

 

 

So because we played poorly against two or three sides who, at this moment in time, is miles ahead of us in squad-strength, team spirit and tactics, you stamp 'inept' on his forehead? How can anyone at all expect us to play entertaining football, let alone win, against sides like Liverpool and Portsmouth at this point?

[Parky]

Why wasn't Souness boo'ed so early in his tenure I wonder? Why did he get so long? Because I have canny bit more confidence in Allardyce's ability than I did his.

 

The expectation that comes with the new owner is working against SA imo.

Possibly but anecdotal evidence would suggest a huge amount of people were against Souness from the off but the vocal disapproval at the match was virtually nonexistent. I'm wondering why those people who made their feelings known on Saturday were so quiet for so long back then.

 

Tricky one. Perhaps theyv'e got used to hounding managers out?....Not sure.

[Guest alex]

Why wasn't Souness boo'ed so early in his tenure I wonder? Why did he get so long? Because I have canny bit more confidence in Allardyce's ability than I did his.

 

In my opinion it's really because it's OBVIOUS what our problems are, and Sam is doing nothing to fix them (in some cases worsening the problem - the whole Milner LW thing).

 

Under Souness, we started fairly well, and it wasn't so obviously his fault at the beginning.

 

The problems at the minute are obviously Sams doing.

There was never any singing (aprt from tiny pockets on occasion) for Souness's head. Why?

[ChezGiven]

Why wasn't Souness boo'ed so early in his tenure I wonder? Why did he get so long? Because I have canny bit more confidence in Allardyce's ability than I did his.

 

In my opinion it's really because it's OBVIOUS what our problems are, and Sam is doing nothing to fix them (in some cases worsening the problem - the whole Milner LW thing).

 

Under Souness, we started fairly well, and it wasn't so obviously his fault at the beginning.

 

The problems at the minute are obviously Sams doing.

There was never any singing (aprt from tiny pockets on occasion) for Souness's head. Why?

There was anti-shepherd/board chanting at a few games. Away from home definitely.

[Guest alex]

Why wasn't Souness boo'ed so early in his tenure I wonder? Why did he get so long? Because I have canny bit more confidence in Allardyce's ability than I did his.

 

In my opinion it's really because it's OBVIOUS what our problems are, and Sam is doing nothing to fix them (in some cases worsening the problem - the whole Milner LW thing).

 

Under Souness, we started fairly well, and it wasn't so obviously his fault at the beginning.

 

The problems at the minute are obviously Sams doing.

There was never any singing (aprt from tiny pockets on occasion) for Souness's head. Why?

 

I have no idea.

 

Neither have I. I can't understand why Allardyce is getting such a raw deal off the crowd compared to the some of the previous managers.

[Mr. Snrub]

Why wasn't Souness boo'ed so early in his tenure I wonder? Why did he get so long? Because I have canny bit more confidence in Allardyce's ability than I did his.

 

Souness had a good start.  11 points from his first 5 matches.

 

We were also playing better football early on under Souness than we are under Allardyce.

 

 

[ChezGiven]

Because the anger, frustration and disappointment was aimed at Shepherd.

[Guest alex]

Why wasn't Souness boo'ed so early in his tenure I wonder? Why did he get so long? Because I have canny bit more confidence in Allardyce's ability than I did his.

 

Souness had a good start.  11 points from his first 5 matches.

 

We were also playing better football early on under Souness than we are under Allardyce.

 

 

See above. The chanting for Souness's head was never anything approaching Saturday at any point in his reign.

[Guest alex]

Why wasn't Souness boo'ed so early in his tenure I wonder? Why did he get so long? Because I have canny bit more confidence in Allardyce's ability than I did his.

 

In my opinion it's really because it's OBVIOUS what our problems are, and Sam is doing nothing to fix them (in some cases worsening the problem - the whole Milner LW thing).

 

Under Souness, we started fairly well, and it wasn't so obviously his fault at the beginning.

 

The problems at the minute are obviously Sams doing.

There was never any singing (aprt from tiny pockets on occasion) for Souness's head. Why?

 

I have no idea.

 

Neither have I. I can't understand why Allardyce is getting such a raw deal off the crowd compared to the some of the previous managers.

 

I think people have just had enough.

 

See my post in reply to Jep for why I'm particularly pissed off this time, as opposed to for other managers.

I agree with what you say in that reply like.

[johnnypd]

Because the anger, frustration and disappointment was aimed at Shepherd.

 

likewise for roeder, for instance after the sheff utd game when it was all "sack the board" outside the milburn stand.

[Dave]

By that point Alex the fans had had enough of Shepherd, and Souness was his appointment. I joined in the chanting outside SJP because I knew however inept the manager was, the chairman needed to take the rap for it for a change.

 

People are generally happy with Ashley so far (even if it's just for being a change) and are turning on the management with venom.

[Guest alex]

Why wasn't Souness boo'ed so early in his tenure I wonder? Why did he get so long? Because I have canny bit more confidence in Allardyce's ability than I did his.

 

Souness had a good start.  11 points from his first 5 matches.

 

We were also playing better football early on under Souness than we are under Allardyce.

 

 

See above. The chanting for Souness's head was never anything approaching Saturday at any point in his reign.

 

Because the decisions (such as Milner for Zog, Barton for Emre, initial team selection) were never so negative.

Not sure I agree there like. Some of the teams Souness put out were awful. How does Saturday tally with the cup semi-final against Man Utd btw? We were awful and humiliated that day with a team Souness had done his best to decimate yet they got a standing ovation. Odd imo.

[jep]

What a ridiculous statement?

 

What about our performances against Man City, Reading, Derby, Sunderland, Middlesbrough, Aston Villa? Let alone the diabolical Portsmouth and Liverpool games.

 

I don't think you understand our point of view.

 

If we'd gone out in those games with a good team selection and positive tactics, I don't think people would be so upset that we are losing.

 

It's that we are going out in those games with mish mash selections, players needlessly out of position, defensive tactics, long ball tactics, and still failing, is why everyone is pissed off.

 

 

I do understand, and I disagree with it - I think you're exaggerating a whole lot.

 

What I was pointing out was that the diabolical performances hasn't been a standard this season. At all. The games mentioned were poor, especially the ones vs pompey and pool, but none of those come even close to being as bad as some of our very worst performances of previous seasons. What I'm saying is; things aren't as bad as you guys make it out to be - 'you guys' being the allardyce-out campaign lot.

 

Its been said so many times before, but I don't mind reiterating it: It's been TWELVE fucking games. So what if he had his twelve worst games at the start of the season, it's still not enough to judge him on. Give the man a break, and give the fucking club a break as well.

[Dave]

THIRTEEN fucking games. Plus the Rumbelows Cup.

[Mowen]

Why wasn't Souness boo'ed so early in his tenure I wonder? Why did he get so long? Because I have canny bit more confidence in Allardyce's ability than I did his.

 

The expectation that comes with the new owner is working against SA imo.

Possibly but anecdotal evidence would suggest a huge amount of people were against Souness from the off but the vocal disapproval at the match was virtually nonexistent. I'm wondering why those people who made their feelings known on Saturday were so quiet for so long back then.

 

Football fans have become less patient as time has gone on as far as I can tell. The premiership hastened that on but the recent influx of cash into the premierleague has exacabated the problem massively, fans at all grounds seem to be booing on a regular basis this season. Eveeryone wants their quick fix, and this problem has spread into the championship as well, where anything less than promotion is a failure to capitalise on the huge monetary rewards above them. Aidy Boothroyd being the longest serving manager in that league seems to back this up.

[jep]

THIRTEEN fucking games. Plus the Rumbelows Cup.

 

 

Close enough

[jep]

If you read my earlier posts you will see that I'm not part of the "Allardyce out" campaign.

 

I am part of the "He has to up his game substantially if he is to have my backing and patience" campaign. This campaign is growing more and more with every dissappointing decision he makes.

 

I would love to see him succeed but I honestly don't think that we're any better off right now than we were under Roeder.

 

 

Fair enough, it wasn't mean that way really, just awkward wording on my part. English isn't my primary language

 

The point is, however, that in my opinion it's outrageous to compare Roeder's tenure here to Allardyce's when the latter has only been here for the short amount of time he has. He's tinkering alot, yes. He's chopping and changing alot, yes. But he's brought positives to the squad as well, and it's there for all to see - we have no Brambles or Boumsongs in our defence (yeah yeah, Cacapa.. he's nowhere near as bad - ONE game out of ten he's screwed up, and that is not enough to condemn him on). We're not letting in overly sloppy goals against poor opposition (in my opinion) - bar the two games against Liverpool and Portsmouth, and those are good teams.

 

Every manager makes poor decisions, and I agree that the ones he's made in the games we've lost heavily have been bad ones. But he's not the only one to have failed when trying to change the tactics too much. Remember SBR's 5-3-2? Failed horrendously against much weaker opposition, and he certainly received less stick for it, as far as I can remember. Allardyce is still trying to implement his ideas and tactics to the squad and players, things we've seen worked when he was at Bolton. There's no reason the same thing won't work here, but he has to be given time to do it. I do realise saying this to you is futile, I'm more trying to aim at the bandwagon-jumpers and the ones calling for Allardyce's head. It's far too soon, and it's helping noone.