If not Sam, who then?

[Dave]

Well, I disgaree that football is a simple game, that's a cliche in my opinion as it's far from it. It's a very complex game. I get what you're saying though and to be honest I can't argue with much of it and nor will I. I'm at a loss myself as to what is going on and can't get my heard around it, which bothers me.

 

are you a Shepherd ?

 

[Guest DCI Gene Hunt]

Mike Ashley and Chris Mort will probably bide their time, let Allardyce complete the season in charge and look to the likes of Houllier or Hiddink for a replacement and 'their' man.  Or Rijkaard if Barca were to dismiss him in the summer.

[Baggio]

Jol ready for Sam's Toon job

 

By By MARK IRWIN

 

Published: Today

 

MARTIN JOL is ready to take charge at Newcastle if Sam Allardyce gets the bullet.

 

Jol was offered the Toon job before Big Sam was appointed in May but the Dutchman stayed at Spurs.

 

Now he is waiting for another call from St James’ Park and believes he can live up to their expectations.

 

Jol, 51, is keen to return to work two months after being sacked by Spurs with a £4million pay-off.

 

He has already turned down approaches from Birmingham and Fulham because he does not fancy battling relegation.

 

But he is excited by the prospect of managing Newcastle and knows they can match his own ambitions.

 

It was news of the Toon’s approach last season which undermined Jol at Spurs, where directors were unhappy he was even considering a move to another club.

 

He finished fifth in both of his last two campaigns at White Hart Lane.

 

And earlier this season he pointed out: “When I took charge here, Spurs were probably behind the likes of Newcastle.

 

"If you told Sam Allardyce he’d finish in the top five for the next two years, he would be so happy.

 

“They would probably build a big statue of him outside the stadium at St James’ Park.”

 

One concern Jol has is that Toon owner Mike Ashley is pals with former Spurs vice-chairman Paul Kemsley, who led the campaign to oust him from White Hart Lane.

 

Yet with the Geordie fans fuming, Ashley must decide whether to back Allardyce or sack him.

 

 

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport...ticle630738.ece

[Dave]

Sounds like nonsense.

[Mike]

Jol ready for Sam's Toon job

 

By By MARK IRWIN

 

Published: Today

 

 

<b>

"If you told Sam Allardyce he’d finish in the top five for the next two years, he would be so happy.

 

“They would probably build a big statue of him outside the stadium at St James’ Park.”</b>

 

 

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport...ticle630738.ece

 

This fucking guy.

[Mowen]

That sounds like someone declaring himself a legend for two top 5 finishes.... howay Martin! You were only the second top spender!

[Decky]

Give him time lads, 6 month is nothing for f**ks sake, we gave Roeder and Souness 3 times that and Sam is 10 times the manager, he will find his feet and when he does he will get it right, have faith and patience

[PM]

I think those Jol quotes were when he was pretty much on his last legs at Spurs and trying to defend his record there. 

[merlin]

So who do you think is most likely to get the job if Big Sam is sacked? (Not who is best for job)

I don't think it'll be Shearer. I don't know who it'll be but someone with a proven track record would be my guess. Apppointing Shearer seems too much of a risk.

 

I agree with this. I DO think Shearer has a chance of becoming a good manager one day, but I want to see him prove himself away from SJP first ; if he comes here and fails it will ruin any chance he has of becoming what he could be as a manager.

The problem is that many fans cannot see beyond him because ;-

1.He's a Geordie

2.He's the most iconic player many below the age of 30 have seen at SJP

3.The media keep pushing him

4.Many cannot see that we have any other choice.

 

This last point is quite relevant - of all well-recognized managers or candidates, Shearer is the only one we have a decent chance of getting - BUT - that does not mean we should definitely do it(see my comments about other up & coming managers earlier this week).

IF Allardyce goes, this is the most crucial decision in the club's history during the past 15 years - we took a gamble with KK in 92 and it paid off, but we had little to lose ; if the Board get the next one wrong, it could set us back almost to pre-KK days. The next manager HAS to be here for some years if we are to re-establish the club's credibility - only a SUCCESSFUL period of stability will make us respected once again.

 

Incidentally, I see that Ferguson has been defending his pal Allardyce, and saying its a job no-one would want, that the worst thing NUFC did was to beat Man Ure 5-0(he thinks we all expect to win every game like that etc etc), and that we have never recovered from firing SBR - well, THAT bit is true, but he fails to mention the common denominator - one F. Shepherd, who both fired SBR and appointed Allardyce, so was it a brilliant piece of judgment to bring in Sam, but a disaster to fire Bobby..!!??

 

In my opinion, Fergie wants to mind his own business - he will try ANYTHING to wrong-foot opposing clubs who he views as possible threats, and we all saw what he did in 96, suggesting that Leeds and Forest would 'lie down' for us so we could win the title(which incensed KK so much).he has also slagged off Wenger AND Mourinho in the past if he thought he could gain some advantage, so the thought of us getting someone who just MIGHT get us back challenging them again does not look good to Fergie...!!

 

I just hope Mort & Ashley look at all possible alternatives before making any decision - the next guy has GOT to be right...

[merlin]

Well, I disgaree that football is a simple game, that's a cliche in my opinion as it's far from it. It's a very complex game. I get what you're saying though and to be honest I can't argue with much of it and nor will I. I'm at a loss myself as to what is going on and can't get my heard around it, which bothers me.

 

So you think you are a better judge than one Brian Clough then do you !?? Because, as I keep telling you, that is EXACTLY what Clough said football was - a simple game made complicated by Buffoons...

If you get the players playing in a system they are comfortable with , AND to their strengths, they will do the business PROVIDED they have a modicum of ability.

Clough did not take 20 games to make an impact at Derby and everywhere he went he took John McGovern with him ..one day, a NE journalist, Doug Weatherall, asked Clough why he always signed McGovern, as none of the Press guys could see anything in him - Clough replied ' that's why YOU are a journalist, and I am a MANAGER, Doug..!!'

John Robertson, now coach to O'Neill at Villa, never got on well with Clough, but he would run through a brick wall for him because Clough let him PLAY TO HIS STRENGTHS as a left-winger...do you think Cloughie would have played N'Zogbia at LB, because I don't....I once saw him bollocking a player in training because the guy was a striker and he was taking corners - Clough said ' I didn't pay 1m for you to mess around taking corners, I paid it so you could score goals- GET IN THE MIDDLE !'

No messing about with positional changes for BC..!!

[jep]

So you think you are a better judge than one Brian Clough then do you !?? Because, as I keep telling you, that is EXACTLY what Clough said football was - a simple game made complicated by Buffoons...

If you get the players playing in a system they are comfortable with , AND to their strengths, they will do the business PROVIDED they have a modicum of ability.

Clough did not take 20 games to make an impact at Derby and everywhere he went he took John McGovern with him ..one day, a NE journalist, Doug Weatherall, asked Clough why he always signed McGovern, as none of the Press guys could see anything in him - Clough replied ' that's why YOU are a journalist, and I am a MANAGER, Doug..!!'

John Robertson, now coach to O'Neill at Villa, never got on well with Clough, but he would run through a brick wall for him because Clough let him PLAY TO HIS STRENGTHS as a left-winger...do you think Cloughie would have played N'Zogbia at LB, because I don't....I once saw him bollocking a player in training because the guy was a striker and he was taking corners - Clough said ' I didn't pay 1m for you to mess around taking corners, I paid it so you could score goals- GET IN THE MIDDLE !'

No messing about with positional changes for BC..!!

 

 

Surely you're not naive enough to believe that football hasn't changed one bit since 1993?

[merlin]

So you think you are a better judge than one Brian Clough then do you !?? Because, as I keep telling you, that is EXACTLY what Clough said football was - a simple game made complicated by Buffoons...

If you get the players playing in a system they are comfortable with , AND to their strengths, they will do the business PROVIDED they have a modicum of ability.

Clough did not take 20 games to make an impact at Derby and everywhere he went he took John McGovern with him ..one day, a NE journalist, Doug Weatherall, asked Clough why he always signed McGovern, as none of the Press guys could see anything in him - Clough replied ' that's why YOU are a journalist, and I am a MANAGER, Doug..!!'

John Robertson, now coach to O'Neill at Villa, never got on well with Clough, but he would run through a brick wall for him because Clough let him PLAY TO HIS STRENGTHS as a left-winger...do you think Cloughie would have played N'Zogbia at LB, because I don't....I once saw him bollocking a player in training because the guy was a striker and he was taking corners - Clough said ' I didn't pay 1m for you to mess around taking corners, I paid it so you could score goals- GET IN THE MIDDLE !'

No messing about with positional changes for BC..!!

 

 

Surely you're not naive enough to believe that football hasn't changed one bit since 1993?

 

And surely YOU are not naive enough to believe that Clough wouldn't have been a success in whatever era he managed..??

[Guest sicko2ndbest]

Mourinho

Hiddink

Hitzfeld

Ferguson

Wenger

 

These are the only managers who could probably guarantee us progress. Are they going to come, not a chance in hell. So those of you championing Big Sams sacking, get a grip of reality and come up with some viable alternatives.

[Martin Lol]

Jol ready for Sam's Toon job

 

By By MARK IRWIN

 

Published: Today

 

MARTIN JOL is ready to take charge at Newcastle if Sam Allardyce gets the bullet.

 

Jol was offered the Toon job before Big Sam was appointed in May but the Dutchman stayed at Spurs.

 

Now he is waiting for another call from St James’ Park and believes he can live up to their expectations.

 

Jol, 51, is keen to return to work two months after being sacked by Spurs with a £4million pay-off.

 

He has already turned down approaches from Birmingham and Fulham because he does not fancy battling relegation.

 

But he is excited by the prospect of managing Newcastle and knows they can match his own ambitions.

 

It was news of the Toon’s approach last season which undermined Jol at Spurs, where directors were unhappy he was even considering a move to another club.

 

He finished fifth in both of his last two campaigns at White Hart Lane.

 

And earlier this season he pointed out: “When I took charge here, Spurs were probably behind the likes of Newcastle.

 

"If you told Sam Allardyce he’d finish in the top five for the next two years, he would be so happy.

 

“They would probably build a big statue of him outside the stadium at St James’ Park.”

 

One concern Jol has is that Toon owner Mike Ashley is pals with former Spurs vice-chairman Paul Kemsley, who led the campaign to oust him from White Hart Lane.

 

Yet with the Geordie fans fuming, Ashley must decide whether to back Allardyce or sack him.

 

 

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport...ticle630738.ece

 

The highlighted bits are all spot on, the quotes were made prior to the Spurs/Newcastle game earlier in the season.

 

As I've said here before, Jol is good but he went as far as he could go with Spurs.  Jol has the team playing differently to Allardyce but their achievable heights are probably about the same.  The one overriding fact, as said in the article, is that Kemsley and Ashley are best mates, not just pals, and it was only a month or so again that they were partying in Vegas, before that Ashley flew to Marbella for Kemsley's 40th birthday bash, they really are as thick as thieves.

 

Kemsley hates Jol, reckons he is hopelessly overrated, and I find it hard to believe that Ashley wouldn't take on board Kemsley's first hand dealings with Jol.  The article is good, very good for the Sun, but Jol to the Toon won't happen imho.

[Guest assyriantoon]

So who do you think is most likely to get the job if Big Sam is sacked? (Not who is best for job)

I don't think it'll be Shearer. I don't know who it'll be but someone with a proven track record would be my guess. Apppointing Shearer seems too much of a risk.

 

I agree with this. I DO think Shearer has a chance of becoming a good manager one day, but I want to see him prove himself away from SJP first ; if he comes here and fails it will ruin any chance he has of becoming what he could be as a manager.

The problem is that many fans cannot see beyond him because ;-

1.He's a Geordie

2.He's the most iconic player many below the age of 30 have seen at SJP

3.The media keep pushing him

4.Many cannot see that we have any other choice.

 

This last point is quite relevant - of all well-recognized managers or candidates, Shearer is the only one we have a decent chance of getting - BUT - that does not mean we should definitely do it(see my comments about other up & coming managers earlier this week).

IF Allardyce goes, this is the most crucial decision in the club's history during the past 15 years - we took a gamble with KK in 92 and it paid off, but we had little to lose ; if the Board get the next one wrong, it could set us back almost to pre-KK days. The next manager HAS to be here for some years if we are to re-establish the club's credibility - only a SUCCESSFUL period of stability will make us respected once again.

 

Incidentally, I see that Ferguson has been defending his pal Allardyce, and saying its a job no-one would want, that the worst thing NUFC did was to beat Man Ure 5-0(he thinks we all expect to win every game like that etc etc), and that we have never recovered from firing SBR - well, THAT bit is true, but he fails to mention the common denominator - one F. Shepherd, who both fired SBR and appointed Allardyce, so was it a brilliant piece of judgment to bring in Sam, but a disaster to fire Bobby..!!??

 

In my opinion, Fergie wants to mind his own business - he will try ANYTHING to wrong-foot opposing clubs who he views as possible threats, and we all saw what he did in 96, suggesting that Leeds and Forest would 'lie down' for us so we could win the title(which incensed KK so much).he has also slagged off Wenger AND Mourinho in the past if he thought he could gain some advantage, so the thought of us getting someone who just MIGHT get us back challenging them again does not look good to Fergie...!!

 

I just hope Mort & Ashley look at all possible alternatives before making any decision - the next guy has GOT to be right...

 

Once again I will re-iterate the fact that I don't want Shearer, I just see him as the most likely appointment. I'm saying that I wouldn't mind Sam being sacked but I don't want it if we are going to get Shearer.

[Guest SpinTheBlackCircle]

Mike Ashley and Chris Mort will probably bide their time, let Allardyce complete the season in charge and look to the likes of Houllier or Hiddink for a replacement and 'their' man.  Or Rijkaard if Barca were to dismiss him in the summer.

 

Dream On, get a grip of reality.

[Guest Knightrider]

Well, I disgaree that football is a simple game, that's a cliche in my opinion as it's far from it. It's a very complex game. I get what you're saying though and to be honest I can't argue with much of it and nor will I. I'm at a loss myself as to what is going on and can't get my heard around it, which bothers me.

 

So you think you are a better judge than one Brian Clough then do you !?? Because, as I keep telling you, that is EXACTLY what Clough said football was - a simple game made complicated by Buffoons...

If you get the players playing in a system they are comfortable with , AND to their strengths, they will do the business PROVIDED they have a modicum of ability.

Clough did not take 20 games to make an impact at Derby and everywhere he went he took John McGovern with him ..one day, a NE journalist, Doug Weatherall, asked Clough why he always signed McGovern, as none of the Press guys could see anything in him - Clough replied ' that's why YOU are a journalist, and I am a MANAGER, Doug..!!'

John Robertson, now coach to O'Neill at Villa, never got on well with Clough, but he would run through a brick wall for him because Clough let him PLAY TO HIS STRENGTHS as a left-winger...do you think Cloughie would have played N'Zogbia at LB, because I don't....I once saw him bollocking a player in training because the guy was a striker and he was taking corners - Clough said ' I didn't pay 1m for you to mess around taking corners, I paid it so you could score goals- GET IN THE MIDDLE !'

No messing about with positional changes for BC..!!

 

To be fair, he was pissed at the time.

 

He was a great manager but football in his day compared to today is a whole new ball game.

[madras]

Well, I disgaree that football is a simple game, that's a cliche in my opinion as it's far from it. It's a very complex game. I get what you're saying though and to be honest I can't argue with much of it and nor will I. I'm at a loss myself as to what is going on and can't get my heard around it, which bothers me.

 

So you think you are a better judge than one Brian Clough then do you !?? Because, as I keep telling you, that is EXACTLY what Clough said football was - a simple game made complicated by Buffoons...

If you get the players playing in a system they are comfortable with , AND to their strengths, they will do the business PROVIDED they have a modicum of ability.

Clough did not take 20 games to make an impact at Derby and everywhere he went he took John McGovern with him ..one day, a NE journalist, Doug Weatherall, asked Clough why he always signed McGovern, as none of the Press guys could see anything in him - Clough replied ' that's why YOU are a journalist, and I am a MANAGER, Doug..!!'

John Robertson, now coach to O'Neill at Villa, never got on well with Clough, but he would run through a brick wall for him because Clough let him PLAY TO HIS STRENGTHS as a left-winger...do you think Cloughie would have played N'Zogbia at LB, because I don't....I once saw him bollocking a player in training because the guy was a striker and he was taking corners - Clough said ' I didn't pay 1m for you to mess around taking corners, I paid it so you could score goals- GET IN THE MIDDLE !'

No messing about with positional changes for BC..!!

 

To be fair, he was pissed at the time.

 

He was a great manager but football in his day compared to today is a whole new ball game.

it's not complicated the way man utd play.

[Guest Knightrider]

Well, I disgaree that football is a simple game, that's a cliche in my opinion as it's far from it. It's a very complex game. I get what you're saying though and to be honest I can't argue with much of it and nor will I. I'm at a loss myself as to what is going on and can't get my heard around it, which bothers me.

 

So you think you are a better judge than one Brian Clough then do you !?? Because, as I keep telling you, that is EXACTLY what Clough said football was - a simple game made complicated by Buffoons...

If you get the players playing in a system they are comfortable with , AND to their strengths, they will do the business PROVIDED they have a modicum of ability.

Clough did not take 20 games to make an impact at Derby and everywhere he went he took John McGovern with him ..one day, a NE journalist, Doug Weatherall, asked Clough why he always signed McGovern, as none of the Press guys could see anything in him - Clough replied ' that's why YOU are a journalist, and I am a MANAGER, Doug..!!'

John Robertson, now coach to O'Neill at Villa, never got on well with Clough, but he would run through a brick wall for him because Clough let him PLAY TO HIS STRENGTHS as a left-winger...do you think Cloughie would have played N'Zogbia at LB, because I don't....I once saw him bollocking a player in training because the guy was a striker and he was taking corners - Clough said ' I didn't pay 1m for you to mess around taking corners, I paid it so you could score goals- GET IN THE MIDDLE !'

No messing about with positional changes for BC..!!

 

To be fair, he was pissed at the time.

 

He was a great manager but football in his day compared to today is a whole new ball game.

it's not complicated the way man utd play.

 

Fergie would disagree.

[madras]

Well, I disgaree that football is a simple game, that's a cliche in my opinion as it's far from it. It's a very complex game. I get what you're saying though and to be honest I can't argue with much of it and nor will I. I'm at a loss myself as to what is going on and can't get my heard around it, which bothers me.

 

So you think you are a better judge than one Brian Clough then do you !?? Because, as I keep telling you, that is EXACTLY what Clough said football was - a simple game made complicated by Buffoons...

If you get the players playing in a system they are comfortable with , AND to their strengths, they will do the business PROVIDED they have a modicum of ability.

Clough did not take 20 games to make an impact at Derby and everywhere he went he took John McGovern with him ..one day, a NE journalist, Doug Weatherall, asked Clough why he always signed McGovern, as none of the Press guys could see anything in him - Clough replied ' that's why YOU are a journalist, and I am a MANAGER, Doug..!!'

John Robertson, now coach to O'Neill at Villa, never got on well with Clough, but he would run through a brick wall for him because Clough let him PLAY TO HIS STRENGTHS as a left-winger...do you think Cloughie would have played N'Zogbia at LB, because I don't....I once saw him bollocking a player in training because the guy was a striker and he was taking corners - Clough said ' I didn't pay 1m for you to mess around taking corners, I paid it so you could score goals- GET IN THE MIDDLE !'

No messing about with positional changes for BC..!!

 

To be fair, he was pissed at the time.

 

He was a great manager but football in his day compared to today is a whole new ball game.

it's not complicated the way man utd play.

 

Fergie would disagree.

pretty sure fergie would get the basics right and you're almost there

[Guest Knightrider]

Well, I disgaree that football is a simple game, that's a cliche in my opinion as it's far from it. It's a very complex game. I get what you're saying though and to be honest I can't argue with much of it and nor will I. I'm at a loss myself as to what is going on and can't get my heard around it, which bothers me.

 

So you think you are a better judge than one Brian Clough then do you !?? Because, as I keep telling you, that is EXACTLY what Clough said football was - a simple game made complicated by Buffoons...

If you get the players playing in a system they are comfortable with , AND to their strengths, they will do the business PROVIDED they have a modicum of ability.

Clough did not take 20 games to make an impact at Derby and everywhere he went he took John McGovern with him ..one day, a NE journalist, Doug Weatherall, asked Clough why he always signed McGovern, as none of the Press guys could see anything in him - Clough replied ' that's why YOU are a journalist, and I am a MANAGER, Doug..!!'

John Robertson, now coach to O'Neill at Villa, never got on well with Clough, but he would run through a brick wall for him because Clough let him PLAY TO HIS STRENGTHS as a left-winger...do you think Cloughie would have played N'Zogbia at LB, because I don't....I once saw him bollocking a player in training because the guy was a striker and he was taking corners - Clough said ' I didn't pay 1m for you to mess around taking corners, I paid it so you could score goals- GET IN THE MIDDLE !'

No messing about with positional changes for BC..!!

 

To be fair, he was pissed at the time.

 

He was a great manager but football in his day compared to today is a whole new ball game.

it's not complicated the way man utd play.

 

Fergie would disagree.

pretty sure fergie would get the basics right and you're almost there

 

How anyone can think football is a simple game is beyond me, it's a complex sport involving many variables.

[jep]

And surely YOU are not naive enough to believe that Clough wouldn't have been a success in whatever era he managed..??

 

 

I'm afraid so. I'm firmly of the belief that managers like him, Shankly or Busby would never be a success in our time. I'll even stretch it so far as to say that players of that era wouldn't be a success in our time either. Sadly, this is something we'll never find an answer to. Which brings me to my point; comparing it is pointless.

[Decky]

I'll get banned for this but I'm sure I'm speaking for everyone else. HTT are you so far up your own arse that you believe you know more than everyone else on this forum about football. Every post is slating someone else's opinion and generally looking down on what they've said. Seems you think you're some sort of tactical genius yet you still can't see that what Allardyce is doing makes no sense at all.

 

To summise for those that can't be arsed to read the above, HTT is a cunt.

 

[jep]

Oh dear.

[Mr Logic]

Can't believe he's really sure he's speaking for everyone else.