Mort Expects Arrivals

[Baggio]

There's no point second guessing Mort really. I don't think we'll spend much in this window and he's already started lowering expectations reg this window. Unless we sell that is.

 

I hope we get rid of Martins and get someone else in.

 

this is precisely the vibe that is being given off, but people are in denial of it.

 

 

 

If the club are not going to spend big in January then isn't it better to just say so?

 

 

[Guest alex]

There's no point second guessing Mort really. I don't think we'll spend much in this window and he's already started lowering expectations reg this window. Unless we sell that is.

 

I hope we get rid of Martins and get someone else in.

 

this is precisely the vibe that is being given off, but people are in denial of it.

 

 

Aye, there's two ways of looking at it: it's because we aren't spending anything or because we don't want to alert clubs to our spending power and / or raise expectations in fans before player(s) are through the door. Time will tell.

[Parky]

There's no point second guessing Mort really. I don't think we'll spend much in this window and he's already started lowering expectations reg this window. Unless we sell that is.

 

I hope we get rid of Martins and get someone else in.

 

this is precisely the vibe that is being given off, but people are in denial of it.

 

 

Aye, there's two ways of looking at it: it's because we aren't spending anything or because we don't want to alert clubs to our spending power and / or raise expectations in fans before player(s) are through the door. Time will tell.

 

I'd be surprised if we bought a significant player this window without selling one first. And I don't mean some £2-3m jobbie.

[Shearergol]

Sounds like when you tried to rope me into talking about Dyer.

 

In all seriousness. I fail to see why people kick up such a fuss, and have it in for people who have ambition for the football club and are prepared to show it. [i'm talking about the board, in case you don't realise]

 

However, Dire was a talented player. I was watching his early few years a few days ago on video, and a Birmingham supporter who I knew at the time we bought him assured me that he would play for England and be a good player, sprung to mind.

 

Fact is though, he failed to fulfull it due to a s*** attitude, injury problems, and in the end, the club are better off without him because there was basically no way back for him.

 

 

What would a Birmingham fan know about Dyer??

[Guest alex]

There's no point second guessing Mort really. I don't think we'll spend much in this window and he's already started lowering expectations reg this window. Unless we sell that is.

 

I hope we get rid of Martins and get someone else in.

 

this is precisely the vibe that is being given off, but people are in denial of it.

 

 

Aye, there's two ways of looking at it: it's because we aren't spending anything or because we don't want to alert clubs to our spending power and / or raise expectations in fans before player(s) are through the door. Time will tell.

 

I'd be surprised if we bought a significant player this window without selling one first. And I don't mean some £2-3m jobbie.

I don't mind us doing tidy bits of business though, especially in January.

[Parky]

There's no point second guessing Mort really. I don't think we'll spend much in this window and he's already started lowering expectations reg this window. Unless we sell that is.

 

I hope we get rid of Martins and get someone else in.

 

this is precisely the vibe that is being given off, but people are in denial of it.

 

 

Aye, there's two ways of looking at it: it's because we aren't spending anything or because we don't want to alert clubs to our spending power and / or raise expectations in fans before player(s) are through the door. Time will tell.

 

I'd be surprised if we bought a significant player this window without selling one first. And I don't mean some £2-3m jobbie.

I don't mind us doing tidy bits of business though, especially in January.

 

Accepted.

[Baggio]

There's no point second guessing Mort really. I don't think we'll spend much in this window and he's already started lowering expectations reg this window. Unless we sell that is.

 

I hope we get rid of Martins and get someone else in.

 

this is precisely the vibe that is being given off, but people are in denial of it.

 

 

Aye, there's two ways of looking at it: it's because we aren't spending anything or because we don't want to alert clubs to our spending power and / or raise expectations in fans before player(s) are through the door. Time will tell.

 

Compare that approach to Roeder last January, getting everyone's hopes up about the players he's bringing in, only to end up with Gooch on loan.

[NE5]

Sounds like when you tried to rope me into talking about Dyer.

 

In all seriousness. I fail to see why people kick up such a fuss, and have it in for people who have ambition for the football club and are prepared to show it. [i'm talking about the board, in case you don't realise]

 

However, Dire was a talented player. I was watching his early few years a few days ago on video, and a Birmingham supporter who I knew at the time we bought him assured me that he would play for England and be a good player, sprung to mind.

 

Fact is though, he failed to fulfull it due to a s*** attitude, injury problems, and in the end, the club are better off without him because there was basically no way back for him.

 

 

What would a Birmingham fan know about Dyer??

 

seen him play for Ipswich against Birmingham !!!

 

 

[Dave]

There's no point second guessing Mort really. I don't think we'll spend much in this window and he's already started lowering expectations reg this window. Unless we sell that is.

 

I hope we get rid of Martins and get someone else in.

 

this is precisely the vibe that is being given off, but people are in denial of it.

 

 

Aye, there's two ways of looking at it: it's because we aren't spending anything or because we don't want to alert clubs to our spending power and / or raise expectations in fans before player(s) are through the door. Time will tell.

 

I'd be surprised if we bought a significant player this window without selling one first. And I don't mean some £2-3m jobbie.

I don't mind us doing tidy bits of business though, especially in January.

 

Depends if that means a lack of ambition.

[NE5]

There's no point second guessing Mort really. I don't think we'll spend much in this window and he's already started lowering expectations reg this window. Unless we sell that is.

 

I hope we get rid of Martins and get someone else in.

 

this is precisely the vibe that is being given off, but people are in denial of it.

 

 

Aye, there's two ways of looking at it: it's because we aren't spending anything or because we don't want to alert clubs to our spending power and / or raise expectations in fans before player(s) are through the door. Time will tell.

 

I'd be surprised if we bought a significant player this window without selling one first. And I don't mean some £2-3m jobbie.

 

Agreed. And 2-3m quid players will get us precisely nowhere in the long term if this is the policy they are going to implement ie no trophy players, build a team, balance the books.

 

They will build a team alright. An average one. And it will only be a matter of time before people who harped on about buying "trophy players" will be crying out for "better quality players"

 

 

[Guest alex]

There's no point second guessing Mort really. I don't think we'll spend much in this window and he's already started lowering expectations reg this window. Unless we sell that is.

 

I hope we get rid of Martins and get someone else in.

 

this is precisely the vibe that is being given off, but people are in denial of it.

 

 

Aye, there's two ways of looking at it: it's because we aren't spending anything or because we don't want to alert clubs to our spending power and / or raise expectations in fans before player(s) are through the door. Time will tell.

 

I'd be surprised if we bought a significant player this window without selling one first. And I don't mean some £2-3m jobbie.

I don't mind us doing tidy bits of business though, especially in January.

 

Depends if that means a lack of ambition.

One man's prudence is another man's cowardice or something

[/Parky tribute]

[Dave]

See.

[LoveItIfWeBeatU]

Hopefully Allardyce can use his contacts and get a few quality loan players in. He used to manage it for Bolton so it should be slightly easier at Newcastle.

[fredbob]

You're reading 'added' literally IMO. I read it as 'as well as'.

 

Well you would say that you bought the spin

 

I am sure NE5 & HTL will understand what I mean

 

No, I wouldn't say that at all.

 

I think you're being overly cynical, and that's something coming from me.

 

I understand what is being said ref these players, but agree with parky too that it is spadework for lowering expectations.

 

 

 

I understand your point but i dont quite see how lowering expectations are a bad thing for the club in the situation we are in now. Ambition and expectations are 2 different things, lowering ambition is a bad bad thing but is by no means affected by attempting to lower the expectations.

[NE5]

Lower expectations is better for the club ?

 

mind boggling

[fredbob]

Lower expectations is better for the club ?

 

mind boggling

 

Expectations are what you expect as a minimum achievement.

Ambition is what you hope to achieve.

 

If a club like ours which is massively underachieveing have there expectations (i.e minimum achievement) to be Europe then how many managers do you think will be able to live up to that expectation with the state of ourclub. If the minimum isnt achieved then the manager gets the chop, its a vicious circle. Its an impossible environment and is the primary reason why we find ourselves in the situation we are.

 

Why would it be good for the club to set new managers near impossible tasks?

 

By lowering the ambition, you are lowering what you hope the club achieves as the ultimate goal. That would be inexplicable.

[NE5]

Lower expectations is better for the club ?

 

mind boggling

 

Expectations are what you expect as a minimum achievement.

Ambition is what you hope to achieve.

 

If a club like ours which is massively underachieveing have there expectations (i.e minimum achievement) to be Europe then how many managers do you think will be able to live up to that expectation with the state of ourclub. If the minimum isnt achieved then the manager gets the chop, its a vicious circle. Its an impossible environment and is the primary reason why we find ourselves in the situation we are.

 

Why would it be good for the club to set new managers near impossible tasks?

 

By lowering the ambition, you are lowering what you hope the club achieves as the ultimate goal. That would be inexplicable.

 

As I said previously, this is so excitingly getting closer to the mindset shown by the club during the glorious 30-odd years of winning trophies galore that we had before the takeover of the club by the Halls and Shepherd in 1992.

 

 

[fredbob]

Lower expectations is better for the club ?

 

mind boggling

 

Expectations are what you expect as a minimum achievement.

Ambition is what you hope to achieve.

 

If a club like ours which is massively underachieveing have there expectations (i.e minimum achievement) to be Europe then how many managers do you think will be able to live up to that expectation with the state of ourclub. If the minimum isnt achieved then the manager gets the chop, its a vicious circle. Its an impossible environment and is the primary reason why we find ourselves in the situation we are.

 

Why would it be good for the club to set new managers near impossible tasks?

 

By lowering the ambition, you are lowering what you hope the club achieves as the ultimate goal. That would be inexplicable.

 

As I said previously, this is so excitingly getting closer to the mindset shown by the club during the glorious 30-odd years of winning trophies galore that we had before the takeover of the club by the Halls and Shepherd in 1992.

 

 

 

Nope, that would be ambition you're on about there.

[Dr Venkman]

expectation

1. the act or the state of expecting: to wait in expectation.

2. the act or state of looking forward or anticipating.

3. an expectant mental attitude: a high pitch of expectation.

4. something expected; a thing looked forward to.

5. Often, expectations. a prospect of future good or profit: to have great expectations.

6. the degree of probability that something will occur: There is little expectation that he will come.

7. Statistics. mathematical expectation.

8. the state of being expected: a large sum of money in expectation.

 

ambition

1. an earnest desire for some type of achievement or distinction, as power, honor, fame, or wealth, and the willingness to strive for its attainment: Too much ambition caused him to be disliked by his colleagues.

2. the object, state, or result desired or sought after: The crown was his ambition.

3. desire for work or activity; energy: I awoke feeling tired and utterly lacking in ambition.

–verb (used with object)

4. to seek after earnestly; aspire to.

 

[UV]

I understand your point but i dont quite see how lowering expectations are a bad thing for the club in the situation we are in now. Ambition and expectations are 2 different things, lowering ambition is a bad bad thing but is by no means affected by attempting to lower the expectations.

 

Not true.

 

If your expectation is Champions league football, your ambition is to win the league.

If your expectation is UEFA cup football, your ambition is Champions league football.

If your expectation is mid table, your ambition is UEFA cup football.

If your expectation is lower table, your ambition is mid table.

If your expectation is relegation, your ambition is lower table.

 

In all cases your short term ambition is the next stage above your expectation, so lowering expectation inherently lowers (short term) ambition.

 

What you are saying is that people's current expectation is too high and unrealistic for any manager. All others are saying is that expecting a visible improvement on the previous manager - who was considered bad enough to get rid of - is not an unreasonable expectation. You won't find many people who had Europe this season as a minimum expectation.

 

 

[Dave]

I can't understand why anyone would pour so much of their own money into buying and clearing the debts of a football club if they don't have the ambition of getting them into Europe on a regular basis. It makes no sense at all.

[Dave]

And it'll probably cost Allardyce his job if we're not there by the end of next season IMO.

[NE5]

I can't understand why anyone would pour so much of their own money into buying and clearing the debts of a football club if they don't have the ambition of getting them into Europe on a regular basis. It makes no sense at all.

 

I would like to agree. Do you not think its possible that he has made it more saleable ?

 

Instead of saying "clearing the debts", which I'm not undermining in the slightest, clearing the mortgage as it were, is a fantastic thing, why not consider that the price of buying the club was 200m quid ?

 

 

[NE5]

And it'll probably cost Allardyce his job if we're not there by the end of next season IMO.

 

Long term "plan" or not, it probably will

 

 

[Howaythelads]

You're reading 'added' literally IMO. I read it as 'as well as'.

 

Well you would say that you bought the spin

 

I am sure NE5 & HTL will understand what I mean

 

Yup. That's right.