interim manager ?

[Northern Monkey]

As for damage, i mean another wasted season, more money wasted, more embrassment to us.

 

Do you think a new manager will not want his own staff, players and time to gel a team/system?

 

I reckon this season is a write-off whether we sack him or not.

 

A season of rebuilding is not wasted. Even half a season of looking at the team and planning for the future is not wasted. Keeping a manager with no chance of success or even a clue what to do is a waste of a season.

 

We're arguably doing that as a club though, regardless of Allardyce.

 

What do you class as success for next season, if say we got in a manager to your liking? We're obviously not going to do anything this year whoever comes in.

 

We may be doing that on the non-footballing side, but i challenge anyoen to show how Allardyce is building on the footballing side by wasting money on tat.

 

Success next season for me - which would be helped by getting someone competent in now - would be a return to the top half of the table, and a team looking capable of establishing itself in the top 6/7 over the next few seasons.

 

The Bitters have proven under Sven that change can happen quickly with the right man, so the above is reasonable i think.

[Guest johnson293]

A season of rebuilding is not wasted. Even half a season of looking at the team and planning for the future is not wasted. Keeping a manager with no chance of success or even a clue what to do is a waste of a season.

 

You dont know that, I think we have to give him his chance to buy the players which suit his system.

 

Once we do that and he has brought his own players and his "system" is ready we can then judge and say thumbs up or thumbs down.

 

Its utter w*** at the minute but we have to stick with it.

 

 

 

He's spent £25m and brought in 9 players. His players, that he wanted. And they have, in the main, been bad buys.

 

You can criticise his summer spending, but his spending was hampered by the takeover.

 

Firstly, he was appointed by Shepherd and we dont know how much he was told he had to spend. Then the takeover happened, and he told the media the new owners took a while to get their heads around the speed of football transfers, and being able to move for targets - a reason we apparently missed out on a few players.

 

While you say he spent about £25m, a lot of that was funded by letting players go - some that Sam may have wanted rid of, but some that I have little doubt he would have kept (Dyer/Solano), but the decision was taken out of his hands by the players wanting to leave.

 

A few of the summer signings were made late in the window, and may have been all that was left - some have worked when played (Faye) and some appear to have struggled a bit (Enrique) for one reason or another.

 

While we probably shouldn't splash crazy money this month, we dont know how Allardyce will do with a full summer under Ashley/Mort, being able to move quickly for targets, with none of last summers hinderances.

 

 

[Dave]

As for damage, i mean another wasted season, more money wasted, more embrassment to us.

 

Do you think a new manager will not want his own staff, players and time to gel a team/system?

 

I reckon this season is a write-off whether we sack him or not.

 

A season of rebuilding is not wasted. Even half a season of looking at the team and planning for the future is not wasted. Keeping a manager with no chance of success or even a clue what to do is a waste of a season.

 

We're arguably doing that as a club though, regardless of Allardyce.

 

What do you class as success for next season, if say we got in a manager to your liking? We're obviously not going to do anything this year whoever comes in.

 

We may be doing that on the non-footballing side, but i challenge anyoen to show how Allardyce is building on the footballing side by wasting money on tat.

 

Success next season for me - which would be helped by getting someone competent in now - would be a return to the top half of the table, and a team looking capable of establishing itself in the top 6/7 over the next few seasons.

 

The Bitters have proven under Sven that change can happen quickly with the right man, so the above is reasonable i think.

 

The club has brought in a couple of young players, this is hopefully building on the footballing side for the future given the state of our youth teams. I don't think it's fair to say all his senior signings are tat anyway, certainly a better manager could be doing better with them. You must admit this, given your disgust at our performances.

 

Agreed on that 'success', I could accept where we are in the table now if we were showing signs of promise for the future.

 

Still not sure Sven is an entirely fair example, they've been cack away from the CoMS (until last night...) and I firmly believe he had a massive headstart on the signings he's made given his year off.

[NG32]

I've said a few times over the months on here, I can't see what Allardyce brings us, that the likes of O'Neill, Moyes, Hughes & Redknapp don't offer their clubs. Therefore, I can never see us being any better than a top 10 side no matter how long Allardyce stays. Sure, we'll get the odd season where we come 6th-7th, but I don't see what he offers differently that will take us above that lot. Man City showed ambition, went for a top-quality manager, and in the long-run, even if they don't finish 4th-6th this season, I know who's more likely to establish themselves there in the long-run.

 

Hes had 20 odd games, thats all.

 

Moyes, Hughes, O'Neill & Redknapp have all had longer than that.  The only exception is Sven and he has been rated as a top club manager for years.

 

 

[Optimistic Nut]

How many more seasons though can we put up with simply "re-building".

 

1992-3 = Rebuilding a young relegation threat team into a Division One team.

1993-4 = Rebuild a promotion winning side into one capable of competing in the Premier League.

1994-5 = Consolidate the previous seasons results, and replace the main source of goals.

1995-7 = Genuine title challengers.

1997-8 = PLC forcing new manager to sell key-players, rebuilding.

1998-9 = New manager brought in to take us back up the league after poor season.

1999-0 = As above.

2000-1 = Rebuild an average squad, get rid of the dead wood.

2001-3 = Back in the top 4.

2003-4 = Players going off the rails, being closed by other clubs behind us.

2004-5 = New manager dealt with task of getting rid of the "bad apples". Now overtaken by the other clubs.

2005-6 = New manager brought in to take us back up the league after poor season.

2006-7 = Terrible managerial appointment, poor season, manager sacked.

2007-8 = New board, new players, new manager....poor start to season.

 

So of the last 16 seasons, I'd say in at least 13 of those we've been "rebuilding". Honestly, how patient do the media, etc. want us to be?

[NG32]

So of the last 16 seasons, I'd say in at least 13 of those we've been "rebuilding". Honestly, how patient do the media, etc. want us to be?

 

Because we keep sacking managers at rediculous times in seasons, the next manager comes in and wants to change it the next transfer window and so on.

 

It has to stop man at some point.  I agree am not happy but we really need to think longer than 20 odd games in charge.  Or we will be rebuilding again and again.

[Optimistic Nut]

So of the last 16 seasons, I'd say in at least 13 of those we've been "rebuilding". Honestly, how patient do the media, etc. want us to be?

 

Because we keep sacking managers at rediculous times in seasons, the next manager comes in and wants to change it the next transfer window and so on.

 

It has to stop man at some point.  I agree am not happy but we really need to think longer than 20 odd games in charge.  Or we will be rebuilding again and again.

 

How many of those appointments do you think, if they hadn't been sacked, would have improved things.

[NG32]

Kenny was starting to rebuild the team the way he wanted it, then was sacked two games into the season.

 

Ruud was unable to initate his style on the team due to the falling out with Shearer.

 

Bobbys time was up really but was sacked at a stupid time.

 

Souness should never have been goven the job.

 

Roeder see Souness.

 

Allerdyce, has only had 20 odd games.  Way way less than all of the above.

[Guest johnson293]

So of the last 16 seasons, I'd say in at least 13 of those we've been "rebuilding". Honestly, how patient do the media, etc. want us to be?

 

Because we keep sacking managers at rediculous times in seasons, the next manager comes in and wants to change it the next transfer window and so on.

 

It has to stop man at some point.  I agree am not happy but we really need to think longer than 20 odd games in charge.  Or we will be rebuilding again and again.

 

How many of those appointments do you think, if they hadn't been sacked, would have improved things.

 

Honestly, I think only Souness and Roeder wouldn't have improved things.

 

Dalglish was sacked about 2 or 3 games into the season, and Gullit was sacked/resigned after about 6 or 7 games, and of course there was the whole Shearer factor in that one, but they only about 18 months each in total in charge?

 

While I would have moved Sir Bobby upstairs at the end of the previous season before he was sacked, I would have stuck with him instead of sacking him, as I think we would have still finished top 8-10 if he'd stayed the full season. He also wanted to help find his successor - and for this reason alone, we probably wouldn't have ended up with Souness and then Roeder!

 

But, its all hindsight, isn't it!

[Guest shaun11177]

one season is quite long enough to judge a Manager, we are underperforming even SA knows that and finisahing 12th which is where we will end up isnt going to be good enough. Shearer will take over and due to his inexperience will have to be backed properly in the transfer market-a paltry 9m is not enough.

[NG32]

one season is quite long enough to judge a Manager, we are underperforming even SA knows that and finisahing 12th which is where we will end up isnt going to be good enough. Shearer will take over and due to his inexperience will have to be backed properly in the transfer market-a paltry 9m is not enough.

 

 

One season is not enough really.

 

Think about it.

 

 

[madras]

one season is quite long enough to judge a Manager, we are underperforming even SA knows that and finisahing 12th which is where we will end up isnt going to be good enough. Shearer will take over and due to his inexperience will have to be backed properly in the transfer market-a paltry 9m is not enough.

a) i don't think we'll finish as high as 12th

b)providing we avoid relegation i'll be quite happy with the manager if i can see improvement and cause for optimism. (which i don't on either point right now)

[jackyboy]

I know it's not great but we must stick with it.  Watching last nights game I thought we had improved from a month ago. There was very little hoofing the ball up the middle as before, in fact the first half we played some decent football. Sadly it breaks down around their penalty box. We are crying out for someone with the craft of Solano or the direct running of Dyer. Our midfielders just don't seem to get past our front men.

In terms of Sams 'bad buys' I tend to disagree. Some of them are good, the biggest disappointment to me has been Barton. I thought at the time that he could be a great signing. Alan Smith gets lots of stick and I think that as a midfielder he is crap. As a striker he is marginally better but hasn't scored a premiership goal for about 2 years, says it all really. Oh by the way, didn't Ferguson also buy him, nobody gets it right every time

[WarrenBartonCentrePartin]

to be honest, the names mentioned are laughable but the main point is that I cannot see any way in which we will improve.

 

Sam continues to play players out of position.

It looks like we have no gameplan.

We lack creativity in the centre of midfield - there's one player that could provide some, but he's continually benched.

The defence continues to look vunerable (despite SA and Pearson both being ex-defenders).

 

As I said, I don't think an interim manager would be much good, and to ask KK to come back is a fucking joke tbh, it's living in the past.

 

However I'd like to ask this question.  Sam has 20-odd backroom staff.  In times like this, isn't it when he should consult them for suggestions/solutions/to see where we are going wrong?  Do this little clan actually do anything or simply arse-lick him?  Surely this Prozone Analysis bloke could use it to show that we managed barely any shots on goal against Wigan?

 

At this minute in time, if I was Ashmort, I'd tell Sam to fuck off if he wants to keep bringing in staff for the time being.  After waking up this morning I'm really beginning to question what influence they're having on first team affairs.

[Guest Hoop Blah]

As an outsider with a soft spot for both Newcastle and Allardyce I can't believe, although I shouldn't be surprised, at how quickly you lot seem to have turned on him.

 

As some of you have said at some point you have to back a manager and give him time to build a side and be realistic that there are 19 other clubs trying to win games in this very competitive league so you can't expect to have it all your own way.

 

I'm a Reading supporter and not too long ago we were in a great position to reach the Championship play offs before Coppell led us over 11 games without a win and we stuttered for a few games before losing the last three games on the spin.  We finished just outside the play offs and saw West Ham, managed by our former manager, promoted after finishing one spot above us.  We lost the first game of the next season after bringing in a few unknown players.

 

If that was you lot I can imagine the reaction to the manager.  We obviously had a few disenters and Coppell was then under some pressure to deliver results but what happened?  We went on a undefeated run of 30 odd games, ended up with a record 106 points and then took the Premiership by storm.

 

I'd quite like to see a Newcastle side up there challenging the likes of City and Everton for the 4th-6th spots, and more, but with the climate that any manager faces coming in to manage your club I'm, afraid it's not going to happen.  You need to stick by a manager for a good 2 or 3 seasons and see how it pans out, as painful as that maybe, but at the moment, as an outsider, it's pretty plain to see that its the fans as much as any manager that is creating the problem.

[madras]

As an outsider with a soft spot for both Newcastle and Allardyce I can't believe, although I shouldn't be surprised, at how quickly you lot seem to have turned on him.

 

As some of you have said at some point you have to back a manager and give him time to build a side and be realistic that there are 19 other clubs trying to win games in this very competitive league so you can't expect to have it all your own way.

 

I'm a Reading supporter and not too long ago we were in a great position to reach the Championship play offs before Coppell led us over 11 games without a win and we stuttered for a few games before losing the last three games on the spin.  We finished just outside the play offs and saw West Ham, managed by our former manager, promoted after finishing one spot above us.  We lost the first game of the next season after bringing in a few unknown players.

 

If that was you lot I can imagine the reaction to the manager.  We obviously had a few disenters and Coppell was then under some pressure to deliver results but what happened?  We went on a undefeated run of 30 odd games, ended up with a record 106 points and then took the Premiership by storm.

 

I'd quite like to see a Newcastle side up there challenging the likes of City and Everton for the 4th-6th spots, and more, but with the climate that any manager faces coming in to manage your club I'm, afraid it's not going to happen.  You need to stick by a manager for a good 2 or 3 seasons and see how it pans out, as painful as that maybe, but at the moment, as an outsider, it's pretty plain to see that its the fans as much as any manager that is creating the problem.

the difference being when he led you on that 11 game winless run you could think that he had previously led you on a good run and maybe,just maybe played well once or twice...in that winless run there were maybe times when you could see some sort of improvemnet ?

[EthiGeordie]

    I think Mort is clueless in a ways we should increase the pressure on him.

[NG32]

think Mort is clueless in a ways we should increase the pressure on him.

 

Yes lets start having a go at the chairman now.

[Northern Monkey]

Does anyone really, genuinely think, based on what they have seen from Allardyce, and the fact - and it IS fact - that HE CHOSE 9 players to bring in, and shelled out £25m on them, that he is the right man for Newcastle United? And by "right man", i mean the right man to take us to and entrench us in the top 6, which has to be our goal.

 

Fat Head himself said he should be judged on 38 games. If that is the case, and we are still in the same position then as we are now, he has to go, because it simply isn't good enough. Tactics, formations, team selections...all very badly executed by SA and the players he is managing. Not good enough.

 

YES, we need to back the right manager, but lets not pretend that backing the WRONG one is going to bring us any more than the shit we have to put up with now.

[Guest Hoop Blah]

the difference being when he led you on that 11 game winless run you could think that he had previously led you on a good run and maybe,just maybe played well once or twice...in that winless run there were maybe times when you could see some sort of improvemnet ?

 

Not exactly no.  He'd taken over Pardew's side which had been flying the season before and led them to miss out on the play-offs too.  The 11 games without a win was on the back of a time when we'd been playing ok, but Coppell hadn't really made that much of an improvement on Pardew's team.  He'd paid a record fee for Bobby Convey who'd looked awful and only started a handful of games that season, he bought in Keown and Ferdinand to add some experience and that backfired and he'd let the club captain go to local rivals to be replaced by a raw free transfer from Brentford. 

 

At the time Coppell even came out and said he had no idea what was going on or how to fix it.  Basically he didn't have that much good grace in the tank but credit where it's due John Madjeski, and pretty much most of the fans, stuck by him and he delivered.

[Guest alex]

    I think Mort is clueless in a ways we should increase the pressure on him.

Based on what exactly?

[madras]

the difference being when he led you on that 11 game winless run you could think that he had previously led you on a good run and maybe,just maybe played well once or twice...in that winless run there were maybe times when you could see some sort of improvemnet ?

 

Not exactly no.  He'd taken over Pardew's side which had been flying the season before and led them to miss out on the play-offs too.  The 11 games without a win was on the back of a time when we'd been playing ok, but Coppell hadn't really made that much of an improvement on Pardew's team.  He'd paid a record fee for Bobby Convey who'd looked awful and only started a handful of games that season, he bought in Keown and Ferdinand to add some experience and that backfired and he'd let the club captain go to local rivals to be replaced by a raw free transfer from Brentford. 

 

At the time Coppell even came out and said he had no idea what was going on or how to fix it.  Basically he didn't have that much good grace in the tank but credit where it's due John Madjeski, and pretty much most of the fans, stuck by him and he delivered.

but how long should you stick by a manager who is taking you backwards.

[Guest Hoop Blah]

the difference being when he led you on that 11 game winless run you could think that he had previously led you on a good run and maybe,just maybe played well once or twice...in that winless run there were maybe times when you could see some sort of improvemnet ?

 

Not exactly no.  He'd taken over Pardew's side which had been flying the season before and led them to miss out on the play-offs too.  The 11 games without a win was on the back of a time when we'd been playing ok, but Coppell hadn't really made that much of an improvement on Pardew's team.  He'd paid a record fee for Bobby Convey who'd looked awful and only started a handful of games that season, he bought in Keown and Ferdinand to add some experience and that backfired and he'd let the club captain go to local rivals to be replaced by a raw free transfer from Brentford. 

 

At the time Coppell even came out and said he had no idea what was going on or how to fix it.  Basically he didn't have that much good grace in the tank but credit where it's due John Madjeski, and pretty much most of the fans, stuck by him and he delivered.

but how long should you stick by a manager who is taking you backwards.

 

Personally I think you have to give them at least 18 months and a full pre-season.  I know how difficult that can be, and I can understand some appointments just seem to be wrong and that they're not going to work out, but in this situation I think you lot need to show some patience because you in a never ending loop of failing.  The only way to break it is to give a manager time AND the support to make it work.

 

As I see it managing Newcastle is currently a self fulfilling prophecy of failure.

[Flip]

its not the right time to sack Sam, but it starting to hit me that hes never going to win us nothing. just last night he took off Faye and let Viduka and Butt play 90 minutes. He took of Martins, he was useless but wow he runs and moves more than Viduka. Duff he took off a bit to early i think, Duff has been out for 8 months but shouldve given him 75-80 mins ithink, and he left Milner in there for the whole match although he was absolute crap. Big Sam isnt convincing me he is jsut showing what a bad manager he is.

[NG32]

but it starting to hit me that hes never going to win us nothing

 

We are just over 20 games in man.  He hasn't bought all the players he needs to make his system work.  Yes its wank at the minute but to say after 20 games he will win nothing is madness.

 

Top 10 finish this year will be an improvment on last year/season.