Ashley has failed Newcastle United.

[TRon]

The funny thing about Baggio is that somewhere on this board he's already said if we go down we "deserve to go down" or was it Mick? Pretty casual like with statements like that. Relegation would be a catastrophe.

 

In my mind it's clear.

 

Mashley hedged with SA and did make statements about money coming in first...If they weren't going to support SA fully they should have got rid of him earlier. But ideally they should have waited till the summer. In some ways and without trying to sound dramatic they have without realising it gambled with our PL status.

 

Mort on the business and administration side of things has done a good job, but they haven't really fully understood the football side of things. I accept they are still learning.

 

If you use the search button you will see that I've not said we deserve to go down at all, so please don't make out I said things that I didn't.

 

Btw are you saying we wouldn't be in a relegation scrap if Allardyce had stayed?

 

I don't think we would Baggio. Without the big upheaval we may have got players in, SA had identified targets, even saying so in a press confrence the day of his sacking.

 

It's too late now though. The change happened and we *have* to get behind the lads.

 

It's Allardyce wasting money on the likes of Smith and Barton that has put us in the s*** in the first place, who honestly trusts him with any more money? After the money he wasted I dread to think what sort of player he'd target, we were linked with Kevin Nolan iirc.

 

As for us not being in a relegation battle, which of the teams have we played since he left do you think we would have picked up more points from if he were still here?

 

I think his dire brand of football would have collected more points, yes.

 

In which games?

 

Bolton (w), Boro(w), Blackburn(D)

 

But I don't see the point in speculating like this

 

I could see us floating around 11th.

 

Worth considering all the same.

 

Only to support an argument which is hypothetical in the first place. It's like saying if we were to play against Liverpool at home under Allardyce, there's no way we'd get pounded 3-0 where the score could be double figures. In fact that's exactly what happened shocking though it seems.

[NE5]

As long as the chairman learns from his mistakes, something which Shepherd never learned to do, I'll be very happy.

 

At the moment, *the only mistake hes made is not sacking Big Sam sooner and bringing Keegan in before the opening of the January transfer window.

 

The significant mistake, amidst all the transfer strategy cautiousness delivered by Mort & Ashley which has already been cited, which may well bring about our relegation.

 

That mistake is the one that counts the most. That one month will go down as a 'not to do' blueprint for other clubs to go by. If we survive the drop, and if Keegan isn't sufficiently backed - surely promises must've have been made when considering the manner in which Keegan originally left - in the Summer as far as i'm concerned Ashley can bring in the scaffolders have them remove his "...... Direct" advertising and sell-up & bugger off, sooner rather than later that is.

 

*Yet some many people still can't see the point. I guess 'not being Freddy Shepherd' is one factor, along with all the other stuff ie. Ashley's "i stand as the leader of Toon Army - i bleed as they do" warcry in the press and by getting down & dirty in the terraces and generally coming across as your everyday grassroots supporter.... and the debt reduction issue is also a relevant point, which weighs in Ashley & Mort's favour at the minute.

 

This idea that because we couldn't buy in the January transfer window, we have endangered the club's Premier future sounds damning, but when you look at the actual circumstances it was perfectly understandable. The money wasn't going to be released to Allardyce because we didn't want to buy any more Smiths, Bartons or Nolans etc. He was sacked for abysmal results during an easy early fixture list (KK's now suffering the consequences). Keegan couldn't get in the players he wanted in a very short space of time, and here we are.

 

What could we have done differently? Kept Allardyce which would have meant starting again in the summer. Is that the argument?

 

not making excuse after excuse for not recognising a serous situation and putting the club in danger of relegation would be a start.

 

Quite amazing the hypocrisy on here. People slating Shepherd for not splashing cash every time we lose, then complaining about debts and saying Ashley did right not to waste money on a team in relegation trouble.

Then we have the sacking of a manager at a "bad time", where the last regime was absolutely slaughtered for it.

 

It would really appear that being a fat bastard who eats all the pies is the ultimate crime, and  you can get away with anything else.

 

 

 

So your objections are

 

1) That Allardyce was sacked at a bad time, meaning you must believe that appointing Keegan was a mistake, seeing as Allardyce should still be boss in your own words. In which case:

 

2) Allardyce should have been given serious money to spend in January, regardless of the fact he wasted £18m on Smith, Enrique and Barton?

 

This is where you're reasoning seems to be leading. Fair enough but your hypocrisy is astounding as you were more than happy enough at the time when Keegan was appointed. Once again people making arguments armed with shitloads of hindsight.

 

Hindsight in what exactly ?

I have ALWAYS said there is no such thing as a "bad time" to boot out a manager who has to go, nor is there any such thing as a "bad time" to appoint a new one if he's the right man. Look through my posts if you don't believe me. This is absolutely proven by the fact that I disagreed with loads of people who constantly moaned on about the fat bastard getting his timing wrong, and other such bollocks, see Allardyce having all the summer to "plan", the new board having all summer to "plan" [which a huge amount of people insisted would see us in good stead this season. You tell me what has happened. So much for "timing" and "planning".

 

Yes I'm happy with Keegan. If he stays.

 

No I'm not happy with the comments coming out of Ashleys mouthpiece which seem to be saying that the club are operating a sell to buy policy, and appear to be hoping that we are going to find the best young players all over the world before anybody else and win loads of trophies in 10 years time when they all become the new Gazza. Aye, right.  mackems.gif

 

The club failed to respond to an increasingly serious predicament ie a looming relegation battle, whereby Ashleys mouthpiece said a month or so before the transfer deadline that if the club buys any players they would be players for the future.

 

If YOU can't see these points, its YOUR problem, but continue slating the fat bastard for eating all the pies while the replacements struggle to match the results, european qualifications and league positions the club gained under the old regime and continuing to delude yourself they are "better" just because you don't like the fat bastard.

 

Basically, they aren't as good as the old board until they have proved it by virtue of those european and Champions League qualifications. This is not rocket science. Neither is the fact that they have so far shown only a distinct lack of awareness of what it takes to do it.

 

 

 

Do you always talk out of both sides of your mouth? Nice party trick   

 

 

 

pretty staightforward really, its the personnel that count not the timing.

 

I thought I'd made it clear enough but obviously you aren't even bright enough to understand that.

 

Nice of you to - predictably - ignore the rest of the post, being factual information that doesn't suit your "opinion"

 

 

[Syrette]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8v9yUVgrmPY

[NE5]

NE5, what is your link to the old board? Are you a friend of Freddy Shephard? Serious question bytheway.

 

Are you a friend of Chris Mort ?

 

 

 

You see, never a direct answer.

 

I take it by that response that you are a friend of Mr Shephard.

 

Right?

 

 

 

To clarify, you think something is wrong with crediting a board who achieves regular european and champions League football against one who fails to see a looming relegation battle and imposes a "sell to buy" policy on the manager ?

 

And you think anyone who - like you - prefers to see the latter, is Freddie Shepherd ?

 

Amazing.

 

mackems.gif

 

You must indeed by Chris Mort, because surely nobody else would defend such actiions

 

 

[fredbob]

 

SBR gets sacked when he doesnt deserve it in my opinion, to make matters worse the club handle the situation abdominably, the job becomes a poison chalice. We end up with Souness.

 

 

The guts of your argument is the board didn't have the gall to sack him at the start of the season or the stomache to let him continue indefinately?

 

 

The "manner" of Robson's sacking as a deterent to getting a new manager in is a massive red herring. When has the manner of the previous manager's sacking stopped a new manager taking the job? Houllier -> Benitez? Ranieri ->Mourinho? Jol -> Ramos?

 

Fair enough, pick and choose what you want to reply to.

 

Thats not my point at all, the first point and major point is that they shouldnt of sacked him in the first place because he hadnt done anything footballing wise to merit a sacking. By sacking him, the board sent a message saying that in essentially the club requires CL qualification as a minimum.

 

The second part to my argument is indeed the manner and circumstances, ie finishing 5th, being a legend and being treated abdominably whilst in the job, being undermined and being openely humiliated.

 

The examples you give arent particulary good to be honest, so no, its not a red herring, like a said we dont have the history to have such a lavish criteria for these sort of managers.

 

Liverpool - fanstastic history, decent resources wherent achieving the big one they wanted

Chelsea - Amazing resources, wanted the best, the best came.

Spurs - Had a modernized set up and a club that had finished 5th twice, was looking to exploit there new set up and  heavy investment went for the best at a crucial time for them.

 

The only club remotely similar to our situation in the examples you give are Spurs and even then it isnt that similar, they had a new set up which thy were looking to exploit.

 

Nufc didnt have anything to offer that those 3 didnt, we didnt have amazing resources, we arent considered one of the major clubs in the world and we didnt have a new set up to exploit.

[fredbob]

NE5, what is your link to the old board? Are you a friend of Freddy Shephard? Serious question bytheway.

 

Are you a friend of Chris Mort ?

 

 

 

You see, never a direct answer.

 

I take it by that response that you are a friend of Mr Shephard.

 

Right?

 

 

 

To clarify, you think something is wrong with crediting a board who achieves regular european and champions League football against one who fails to see a looming relegation battle and imposes a "sell to buy" policy on the manager ?

 

And you think anyone who - like you - prefers to see the latter, is Freddie Shepherd ?

 

Amazing.

 

mackems.gif

 

You must indeed by Chris Mort, because surely nobody else would defend such actiions

 

 

 

So you have absolutley no link with the old board or Freddy Shepherd then?

[UV]

fredbob, I couldn't be arsed responding to the rest of it because firstly it was 1 o'clock in the morning, and secondly you just contradict yourself all over the place so it's impossible to argue with you.

 

The examples you give arent particulary good to be honest, so no, its not a red herring, like a said we dont have the history to have such a lavish criteria for these sort of managers.

 

Liverpool - fanstastic history, decent resources wherent achieving the big one they wanted

Chelsea - Amazing resources, wanted the best, the best came.

Spurs - Had a modernized set up and a club that had finished 5th twice, was looking to exploit there new set up and  heavy investment went for the best at a crucial time for them.

 

 

Can you not see that? This isnt a question of ambition, that magic buzz word you like so much, this was a question of runing abusiness properly and using advantage that we had as a club to further ourselves. You have to realise that most fans see us as being on par with Man U at one point in our history, a bit further down the line we were on par with the likes of Chelsea and Liverpool.

 

[Guest alex]

Does anyone reckon KK would have come back under the old board? Rhetorical question btw.

[NE5]

 

SBR gets sacked when he doesnt deserve it in my opinion, to make matters worse the club handle the situation abdominably, the job becomes a poison chalice. We end up with Souness.

 

 

The guts of your argument is the board didn't have the gall to sack him at the start of the season or the stomache to let him continue indefinately?

 

 

The "manner" of Robson's sacking as a deterent to getting a new manager in is a massive red herring. When has the manner of the previous manager's sacking stopped a new manager taking the job? Houllier -> Benitez? Ranieri ->Mourinho? Jol -> Ramos?

 

Fair enough, pick and choose what you want to reply to.

 

Thats not my point at all, the first point and major point is that they shouldnt of sacked him in the first place because he hadnt done anything footballing wise to merit a sacking. By sacking him, the board sent a message saying that in essentially the club requires CL qualification as a minimum.

 

The second part to my argument is indeed the manner and circumstances, ie finishing 5th, being a legend and being treated abdominably whilst in the job, being undermined and being openely humiliated.

 

The examples you give arent particulary good to be honest, so no, its not a red herring, like a said we dont have the history to have such a lavish criteria for these sort of managers.

 

Liverpool - fanstastic history, decent resources wherent achieving the big one they wanted

Chelsea - Amazing resources, wanted the best, the best came.

Spurs - Had a modernized set up and a club that had finished 5th twice, was looking to exploit there new set up and  heavy investment went for the best at a crucial time for them.

 

The only club remotely similar to our situation in the examples you give are Spurs and even then it isnt that similar, they had a new set up which thy were looking to exploit.

 

Nufc didnt have anything to offer that those 3 didnt, we didnt have amazing resources, we arent considered one of the major clubs in the world and we didnt have a new set up to exploit.

 

the main crust of this, which you still fail to grasp fredbob no matter how many times it is explained, is that no other board in the last 50 years has attempted to tap our fanbase and get anywhere near to our potential than the Halls and Shepherd.

 

You even went so far as to say we shouldn't waste money in the transfer window, agreeing with Chris Mort when he said we wouldn't be spending any money on anybody but players for the future, despite us struggling, looking at a relegation fight, and then hypocritically repeating as in your above posts that you then think we are such a big club, that we have an automatic right to a champions League place.

 

You seriously think that the Halls and Shepherd brought decades of success and trophies to an end don't you ?

[NE5]

NE5, what is your link to the old board? Are you a friend of Freddy Shephard? Serious question bytheway.

 

Are you a friend of Chris Mort ?

 

 

 

You see, never a direct answer.

 

I take it by that response that you are a friend of Mr Shephard.

 

Right?

 

 

 

To clarify, you think something is wrong with crediting a board who achieves regular european and champions League football against one who fails to see a looming relegation battle and imposes a "sell to buy" policy on the manager ?

 

And you think anyone who - like you - prefers to see the latter, is Freddie Shepherd ?

 

Amazing.

 

mackems.gif

 

You must indeed by Chris Mort, because surely nobody else would defend such actiions

 

 

 

So you have absolutley no link with the old board or Freddy Shepherd then?

 

So you have absolutley no link to the new board or Chris Mort then ?

 

 

[mrmojorisin75]

 

SBR gets sacked when he doesnt deserve it in my opinion, to make matters worse the club handle the situation abdominably, the job becomes a poison chalice. We end up with Souness.

 

 

The guts of your argument is the board didn't have the gall to sack him at the start of the season or the stomache to let him continue indefinately?

 

 

The "manner" of Robson's sacking as a deterent to getting a new manager in is a massive red herring. When has the manner of the previous manager's sacking stopped a new manager taking the job? Houllier -> Benitez? Ranieri ->Mourinho? Jol -> Ramos?

 

Fair enough, pick and choose what you want to reply to.

 

Thats not my point at all, the first point and major point is that they shouldnt of sacked him in the first place because he hadnt done anything footballing wise to merit a sacking. By sacking him, the board sent a message saying that in essentially the club requires CL qualification as a minimum.

 

The second part to my argument is indeed the manner and circumstances, ie finishing 5th, being a legend and being treated abdominably whilst in the job, being undermined and being openely humiliated.

 

The examples you give arent particulary good to be honest, so no, its not a red herring, like a said we dont have the history to have such a lavish criteria for these sort of managers.

 

Liverpool - fanstastic history, decent resources wherent achieving the big one they wanted

Chelsea - Amazing resources, wanted the best, the best came.

Spurs - Had a modernized set up and a club that had finished 5th twice, was looking to exploit there new set up and  heavy investment went for the best at a crucial time for them.

 

The only club remotely similar to our situation in the examples you give are Spurs and even then it isnt that similar, they had a new set up which thy were looking to exploit.

 

Nufc didnt have anything to offer that those 3 didnt, we didnt have amazing resources, we arent considered one of the major clubs in the world and we didnt have a new set up to exploit.

 

the main crust of this, which you still fail to grasp fredbob no matter how many times it is explained, is that no other board in the last 50 years has attempted to tap our fanbase and get anywhere near to our potential than the Halls and Shepherd.

 

You even went so far as to say we shouldn't waste money in the transfer window, agreeing with Chris Mort when he said we wouldn't be spending any money on anybody but players for the future, despite us struggling, looking at a relegation fight, and then hypocritically repeating as in your above posts that you then think we are such a big club, that we have an automatic right to a champions League place.

 

You seriously think that the Halls and Shepherd brought decades of success and trophies to an end don't you ?

 

i've said this before mr NE5, and i'll say it again to see if anyone listens this time:

 

you talk 100% sense about say 5% of the whole picture

 

why anyone argues with you about the 5% is continually lost on me, there's no counter argument...shame you won't cross over into the other 95% then things might get interesting

[NE5]

 

SBR gets sacked when he doesnt deserve it in my opinion, to make matters worse the club handle the situation abdominably, the job becomes a poison chalice. We end up with Souness.

 

 

The guts of your argument is the board didn't have the gall to sack him at the start of the season or the stomache to let him continue indefinately?

 

 

The "manner" of Robson's sacking as a deterent to getting a new manager in is a massive red herring. When has the manner of the previous manager's sacking stopped a new manager taking the job? Houllier -> Benitez? Ranieri ->Mourinho? Jol -> Ramos?

 

Fair enough, pick and choose what you want to reply to.

 

Thats not my point at all, the first point and major point is that they shouldnt of sacked him in the first place because he hadnt done anything footballing wise to merit a sacking. By sacking him, the board sent a message saying that in essentially the club requires CL qualification as a minimum.

 

The second part to my argument is indeed the manner and circumstances, ie finishing 5th, being a legend and being treated abdominably whilst in the job, being undermined and being openely humiliated.

 

The examples you give arent particulary good to be honest, so no, its not a red herring, like a said we dont have the history to have such a lavish criteria for these sort of managers.

 

Liverpool - fanstastic history, decent resources wherent achieving the big one they wanted

Chelsea - Amazing resources, wanted the best, the best came.

Spurs - Had a modernized set up and a club that had finished 5th twice, was looking to exploit there new set up and  heavy investment went for the best at a crucial time for them.

 

The only club remotely similar to our situation in the examples you give are Spurs and even then it isnt that similar, they had a new set up which thy were looking to exploit.

 

Nufc didnt have anything to offer that those 3 didnt, we didnt have amazing resources, we arent considered one of the major clubs in the world and we didnt have a new set up to exploit.

 

the main crust of this, which you still fail to grasp fredbob no matter how many times it is explained, is that no other board in the last 50 years has attempted to tap our fanbase and get anywhere near to our potential than the Halls and Shepherd.

 

You even went so far as to say we shouldn't waste money in the transfer window, agreeing with Chris Mort when he said we wouldn't be spending any money on anybody but players for the future, despite us struggling, looking at a relegation fight, and then hypocritically repeating as in your above posts that you then think we are such a big club, that we have an automatic right to a champions League place.

 

You seriously think that the Halls and Shepherd brought decades of success and trophies to an end don't you ?

 

i've said this before mr NE5, and i'll say it again to see if anyone listens this time:

 

you talk 100% sense about say 5% of the whole picture

 

why anyone argues with you about the 5% is continually lost on me, there's no counter argument...shame you won't cross over into the other 95% then things might get interesting

 

what is the "other 95%"

 

calling women dogs ? Going to brothels ? Eating pies ? Being a fat bastard ? Making daft statements in public now and again ?

 

All pretty much irrelevant.

 

As for appointing Souness, bad mistake but everybody makes mistakes. The most important thing is he/they backed their appointed managers to the hilt.

 

The new board are making mistakes too, they have made many, the most costly of which - may yet - and it may also be deliberate policy - cause an absolute disaster, and far worse than any mistake the old board did.

 

[fredbob]

fredbob, I couldn't be arsed responding to the rest of it because firstly it was 1 o'clock in the morning, and secondly you just contradict yourself all over the place so it's impossible to argue with you.

 

The examples you give arent particulary good to be honest, so no, its not a red herring, like a said we dont have the history to have such a lavish criteria for these sort of managers.

 

Liverpool - fanstastic history, decent resources wherent achieving the big one they wanted

Chelsea - Amazing resources, wanted the best, the best came.

Spurs - Had a modernized set up and a club that had finished 5th twice, was looking to exploit there new set up and  heavy investment went for the best at a crucial time for them.

 

 

Can you not see that? This isnt a question of ambition, that magic buzz word you like so much, this was a question of runing abusiness properly and using advantage that we had as a club to further ourselves. You have to realise that most fans see us as being on par with Man U at one point in our history, a bit further down the line we were on par with the likes of Chelsea and Liverpool.

 

 

Clever peice of work that, but again, taken completely out of context. The first quote is specifically relevant to why we werent in a good position to appoint a new maager of decent quality because we had nothing to offer which made our club an appealing club having sacked the  previous legendary manager in extremely poor circumstances.

 

The second quote is a more generaly view which underlines the reasons why the board didnt do a fanstastic job overall, becasue at key times the board made terrible decisions which set the club back more than it should of. This second quote is only minimally linked to SBR- the topic we are discussing, whereas the first quote is directly linked to the fallout after SBR was sacked.

 

 

Just like to point out that it was you who questioned me as to whther i wanted to keep SBR and i said yes, because i thoughtand always thought that had we kept SBR we would be in a much better situation than we are now no the argument is turning to the manner in which he was sacked which wasnt my main point.

 

We both agree that the manner of the sacking was wrong, yes? I beleive the manner of the sacking set the club back becasue it made the job extremely unnattractive because of the circumstances and is the key reason as to why we are in the situation we are in now. You dont think that the club was set back by these decsision.

 

I think that SBR should of been given a chance to turn things around because he was a great manager who done amazing things for us, he was kicked out at the first sign of "trouble". You dont becasue he would of stayed for longer than he should of and he ended up getting cancer so that would of been a hinderence for the club.

 

What more is there to this debate?

[fredbob]

 

SBR gets sacked when he doesnt deserve it in my opinion, to make matters worse the club handle the situation abdominably, the job becomes a poison chalice. We end up with Souness.

 

 

The guts of your argument is the board didn't have the gall to sack him at the start of the season or the stomache to let him continue indefinately?

 

 

The "manner" of Robson's sacking as a deterent to getting a new manager in is a massive red herring. When has the manner of the previous manager's sacking stopped a new manager taking the job? Houllier -> Benitez? Ranieri ->Mourinho? Jol -> Ramos?

 

Fair enough, pick and choose what you want to reply to.

 

Thats not my point at all, the first point and major point is that they shouldnt of sacked him in the first place because he hadnt done anything footballing wise to merit a sacking. By sacking him, the board sent a message saying that in essentially the club requires CL qualification as a minimum.

 

The second part to my argument is indeed the manner and circumstances, ie finishing 5th, being a legend and being treated abdominably whilst in the job, being undermined and being openely humiliated.

 

The examples you give arent particulary good to be honest, so no, its not a red herring, like a said we dont have the history to have such a lavish criteria for these sort of managers.

 

Liverpool - fanstastic history, decent resources wherent achieving the big one they wanted

Chelsea - Amazing resources, wanted the best, the best came.

Spurs - Had a modernized set up and a club that had finished 5th twice, was looking to exploit there new set up and  heavy investment went for the best at a crucial time for them.

 

The only club remotely similar to our situation in the examples you give are Spurs and even then it isnt that similar, they had a new set up which thy were looking to exploit.

 

Nufc didnt have anything to offer that those 3 didnt, we didnt have amazing resources, we arent considered one of the major clubs in the world and we didnt have a new set up to exploit.

 

the main crust of this, which you still fail to grasp fredbob no matter how many times it is explained, is that no other board in the last 50 years has attempted to tap our fanbase and get anywhere near to our potential than the Halls and Shepherd.

 

You even went so far as to say we shouldn't waste money in the transfer window, agreeing with Chris Mort when he said we wouldn't be spending any money on anybody but players for the future, despite us struggling, looking at a relegation fight, and then hypocritically repeating as in your above posts that you then think we are such a big club, that we have an automatic right to a champions League place.

 

You seriously think that the Halls and Shepherd brought decades of success and trophies to an end don't you ?

 

Wait a minute - what has this got to do with me debating whether i thought it was right or wrong to sack SBR?

 

See what you wanna see.

[fredbob]

NE5, what is your link to the old board? Are you a friend of Freddy Shephard? Serious question bytheway.

 

Are you a friend of Chris Mort ?

 

 

 

You see, never a direct answer.

 

I take it by that response that you are a friend of Mr Shephard.

 

Right?

 

 

 

To clarify, you think something is wrong with crediting a board who achieves regular european and champions League football against one who fails to see a looming relegation battle and imposes a "sell to buy" policy on the manager ?

 

And you think anyone who - like you - prefers to see the latter, is Freddie Shepherd ?

 

Amazing.

 

mackems.gif

 

You must indeed by Chris Mort, because surely nobody else would defend such actiions

 

 

 

So you have absolutley no link with the old board or Freddy Shepherd then?

 

So you have absolutley no link to the new board or Chris Mort then ?

 

 

 

I can categorically confirm that i have absolutley no link with the new board including Chris Mort, your turn....

[NE5]

NE5, what is your link to the old board? Are you a friend of Freddy Shephard? Serious question bytheway.

 

Are you a friend of Chris Mort ?

 

 

 

You see, never a direct answer.

 

I take it by that response that you are a friend of Mr Shephard.

 

Right?

 

 

 

To clarify, you think something is wrong with crediting a board who achieves regular european and champions League football against one who fails to see a looming relegation battle and imposes a "sell to buy" policy on the manager ?

 

And you think anyone who - like you - prefers to see the latter, is Freddie Shepherd ?

 

Amazing.

 

mackems.gif

 

You must indeed by Chris Mort, because surely nobody else would defend such actiions

 

 

 

So you have absolutley no link with the old board or Freddy Shepherd then?

 

So you have absolutley no link to the new board or Chris Mort then ?

 

 

 

I can categorically confirm that i have absolutley no link with the new board including Chris Mort, your turn....

 

I don't believe you.

 

Fred

 

 

[mrmojorisin75]

 

SBR gets sacked when he doesnt deserve it in my opinion, to make matters worse the club handle the situation abdominably, the job becomes a poison chalice. We end up with Souness.

 

 

The guts of your argument is the board didn't have the gall to sack him at the start of the season or the stomache to let him continue indefinately?

 

 

The "manner" of Robson's sacking as a deterent to getting a new manager in is a massive red herring. When has the manner of the previous manager's sacking stopped a new manager taking the job? Houllier -> Benitez? Ranieri ->Mourinho? Jol -> Ramos?

 

Fair enough, pick and choose what you want to reply to.

 

Thats not my point at all, the first point and major point is that they shouldnt of sacked him in the first place because he hadnt done anything footballing wise to merit a sacking. By sacking him, the board sent a message saying that in essentially the club requires CL qualification as a minimum.

 

The second part to my argument is indeed the manner and circumstances, ie finishing 5th, being a legend and being treated abdominably whilst in the job, being undermined and being openely humiliated.

 

The examples you give arent particulary good to be honest, so no, its not a red herring, like a said we dont have the history to have such a lavish criteria for these sort of managers.

 

Liverpool - fanstastic history, decent resources wherent achieving the big one they wanted

Chelsea - Amazing resources, wanted the best, the best came.

Spurs - Had a modernized set up and a club that had finished 5th twice, was looking to exploit there new set up and  heavy investment went for the best at a crucial time for them.

 

The only club remotely similar to our situation in the examples you give are Spurs and even then it isnt that similar, they had a new set up which thy were looking to exploit.

 

Nufc didnt have anything to offer that those 3 didnt, we didnt have amazing resources, we arent considered one of the major clubs in the world and we didnt have a new set up to exploit.

 

the main crust of this, which you still fail to grasp fredbob no matter how many times it is explained, is that no other board in the last 50 years has attempted to tap our fanbase and get anywhere near to our potential than the Halls and Shepherd.

 

You even went so far as to say we shouldn't waste money in the transfer window, agreeing with Chris Mort when he said we wouldn't be spending any money on anybody but players for the future, despite us struggling, looking at a relegation fight, and then hypocritically repeating as in your above posts that you then think we are such a big club, that we have an automatic right to a champions League place.

 

You seriously think that the Halls and Shepherd brought decades of success and trophies to an end don't you ?

 

i've said this before mr NE5, and i'll say it again to see if anyone listens this time:

 

you talk 100% sense about say 5% of the whole picture

 

why anyone argues with you about the 5% is continually lost on me, there's no counter argument...shame you won't cross over into the other 95% then things might get interesting

 

what is the "other 95%"

 

calling women dogs ? Going to brothels ? Eating pies ? Being a fat b****** ? Making daft statements in public now and again ?

 

All pretty much irrelevant.

 

As for appointing Souness, bad mistake but everybody makes mistakes. The most important thing is he/they backed their appointed managers to the hilt.

 

The new board are making mistakes too, they have made many, the most costly of which - may yet - and it may also be deliberate policy - cause an absolute disaster, and far worse than any mistake the old board did.

 

 

the other 95% is anything not board related, which you rarely seem to get involved in...say discussing potential signings, tactics, formations, songs...anything else non related to the boardroom(s) at any given point in history

 

i'm backing you up, your arguments are generally sound and i've found myself becoming more and more convinced by them over time to a degree, but they are extremely limited and that's kind of my point

 

as i say it baffles me when people try to pick holes in it, there really aren't any

[fredbob]

NE5, what is your link to the old board? Are you a friend of Freddy Shephard? Serious question bytheway.

 

Are you a friend of Chris Mort ?

 

 

 

You see, never a direct answer.

 

I take it by that response that you are a friend of Mr Shephard.

 

Right?

 

 

 

To clarify, you think something is wrong with crediting a board who achieves regular european and champions League football against one who fails to see a looming relegation battle and imposes a "sell to buy" policy on the manager ?

 

And you think anyone who - like you - prefers to see the latter, is Freddie Shepherd ?

 

Amazing.

 

mackems.gif

 

You must indeed by Chris Mort, because surely nobody else would defend such actiions

 

 

 

So you have absolutley no link with the old board or Freddy Shepherd then?

 

So you have absolutley no link to the new board or Chris Mort then ?

 

 

 

I can categorically confirm that i have absolutley no link with the new board including Chris Mort, your turn....

 

I don't believe you.

 

Fred

 

 

 

Haha, so you think i have a link with London based businessman and billionaire Mike Ashley. Are you seriously 53? You have the logic of a 10 years old.

 

Classic evasion bytheway, dont answer the question directly, turn it around. Dead clever.

[NE5]

NE5, what is your link to the old board? Are you a friend of Freddy Shephard? Serious question bytheway.

 

Are you a friend of Chris Mort ?

 

 

 

You see, never a direct answer.

 

I take it by that response that you are a friend of Mr Shephard.

 

Right?

 

 

 

To clarify, you think something is wrong with crediting a board who achieves regular european and champions League football against one who fails to see a looming relegation battle and imposes a "sell to buy" policy on the manager ?

 

And you think anyone who - like you - prefers to see the latter, is Freddie Shepherd ?

 

Amazing.

 

mackems.gif

 

You must indeed by Chris Mort, because surely nobody else would defend such actiions

 

 

 

So you have absolutley no link with the old board or Freddy Shepherd then?

 

So you have absolutley no link to the new board or Chris Mort then ?

 

 

 

I can categorically confirm that i have absolutley no link with the new board including Chris Mort, your turn....

 

I don't believe you.

 

Fred

 

 

Haha, so you think i have a link with London based businessman and billionaire Mike Ashley. Are you seriously 53? You have the logic of a 10 years old.

 

Classic evasion bytheway, dont answer the question directly, turn it around. Dead clever.

 

And you have no sense of humour fredbob, and certainly not much about you if you seriously think that just because I see value in a board showing ambition and ran a club that qualified for europe more than everybody bar 4 other clubs means I have a friendship etc with the chairman of the club.

 

The vast majority of football fans would be quite happy with this, and also realise they had supported clubs that had done very well. In fact they would give their teeth for what we have had the last 15 years.

 

As a matter of interest, why do you call yourself "fredbob" who exactly is it a tribute to ?

 

 

[fredbob]

NE5, what is your link to the old board? Are you a friend of Freddy Shephard? Serious question bytheway.

 

Are you a friend of Chris Mort ?

 

 

 

You see, never a direct answer.

 

I take it by that response that you are a friend of Mr Shephard.

 

Right?

 

 

 

To clarify, you think something is wrong with crediting a board who achieves regular european and champions League football against one who fails to see a looming relegation battle and imposes a "sell to buy" policy on the manager ?

 

And you think anyone who - like you - prefers to see the latter, is Freddie Shepherd ?

 

Amazing.

 

mackems.gif

 

You must indeed by Chris Mort, because surely nobody else would defend such actiions

 

 

 

So you have absolutley no link with the old board or Freddy Shepherd then?

 

So you have absolutley no link to the new board or Chris Mort then ?

 

 

 

I can categorically confirm that i have absolutley no link with the new board including Chris Mort, your turn....

 

I don't believe you.

 

Fred

 

 

Haha, so you think i have a link with London based businessman and billionaire Mike Ashley. Are you seriously 53? You have the logic of a 10 years old.

 

Classic evasion bytheway, dont answer the question directly, turn it around. Dead clever.

 

And you have no sense of humour fredbob, and certainly not much about you if you seriously think that just because I see value in a board showing ambition and ran a club that qualified for europe more than everybody bar 4 other clubs means I have a friendship etc with the chairman of the club.

 

The vast majority of football fans would be quite happy with this, and also realise they had supported clubs that had done very well. In fact they would give their teeth for what we have had the last 15 years.

 

As a matter of interest, why do you call yourself "fredbob" who exactly is it a tribute to ?

 

 

 

So you dont have any link whatsoever to Freddy Shepherd or the old board then? Simple question.

 

Fredbob is nothing to do with Freddy shepherd of Sir bobby Robson bytheway, nothing even closed to be linked to NUFC, but nice bit of detective work. Good try!

 

Sorry for not acknowledging your joke bytheway, i didnt realise it was one.

[NE5]

 

SBR gets sacked when he doesnt deserve it in my opinion, to make matters worse the club handle the situation abdominably, the job becomes a poison chalice. We end up with Souness.

 

 

The guts of your argument is the board didn't have the gall to sack him at the start of the season or the stomache to let him continue indefinately?

 

 

The "manner" of Robson's sacking as a deterent to getting a new manager in is a massive red herring. When has the manner of the previous manager's sacking stopped a new manager taking the job? Houllier -> Benitez? Ranieri ->Mourinho? Jol -> Ramos?

 

Fair enough, pick and choose what you want to reply to.

 

Thats not my point at all, the first point and major point is that they shouldnt of sacked him in the first place because he hadnt done anything footballing wise to merit a sacking. By sacking him, the board sent a message saying that in essentially the club requires CL qualification as a minimum.

 

The second part to my argument is indeed the manner and circumstances, ie finishing 5th, being a legend and being treated abdominably whilst in the job, being undermined and being openely humiliated.

 

The examples you give arent particulary good to be honest, so no, its not a red herring, like a said we dont have the history to have such a lavish criteria for these sort of managers.

 

Liverpool - fanstastic history, decent resources wherent achieving the big one they wanted

Chelsea - Amazing resources, wanted the best, the best came.

Spurs - Had a modernized set up and a club that had finished 5th twice, was looking to exploit there new set up and  heavy investment went for the best at a crucial time for them.

 

The only club remotely similar to our situation in the examples you give are Spurs and even then it isnt that similar, they had a new set up which thy were looking to exploit.

 

Nufc didnt have anything to offer that those 3 didnt, we didnt have amazing resources, we arent considered one of the major clubs in the world and we didnt have a new set up to exploit.

 

the main crust of this, which you still fail to grasp fredbob no matter how many times it is explained, is that no other board in the last 50 years has attempted to tap our fanbase and get anywhere near to our potential than the Halls and Shepherd.

 

You even went so far as to say we shouldn't waste money in the transfer window, agreeing with Chris Mort when he said we wouldn't be spending any money on anybody but players for the future, despite us struggling, looking at a relegation fight, and then hypocritically repeating as in your above posts that you then think we are such a big club, that we have an automatic right to a champions League place.

 

You seriously think that the Halls and Shepherd brought decades of success and trophies to an end don't you ?

 

i've said this before mr NE5, and i'll say it again to see if anyone listens this time:

 

you talk 100% sense about say 5% of the whole picture

 

why anyone argues with you about the 5% is continually lost on me, there's no counter argument...shame you won't cross over into the other 95% then things might get interesting

 

what is the "other 95%"

 

calling women dogs ? Going to brothels ? Eating pies ? Being a fat b****** ? Making daft statements in public now and again ?

 

All pretty much irrelevant.

 

As for appointing Souness, bad mistake but everybody makes mistakes. The most important thing is he/they backed their appointed managers to the hilt.

 

The new board are making mistakes too, they have made many, the most costly of which - may yet - and it may also be deliberate policy - cause an absolute disaster, and far worse than any mistake the old board did.

 

 

the other 95% is anything not board related, which you rarely seem to get involved in...say discussing potential signings, tactics, formations, songs...anything else non related to the boardroom(s) at any given point in history

 

i'm backing you up, your arguments are generally sound and i've found myself becoming more and more convinced by them over time to a degree, but they are extremely limited and that's kind of my point

 

as i say it baffles me when people try to pick holes in it, there really aren't any

 

oh, I just don't have the time mate. I would like to spend more time trying to build up howaythetoon to be honest, but spend too much time on here. There are some good discussions with some people, but not with others, mentioning no obvious names.

 

Suppose I just don't really get interested in talking about picking teams etc, not really sure. What about you ?

 

I'm just as disappointed in this season, and what has happened ie results wise, as anyone else too by the way. Maybe more so, because  I never dreamed that when I saw all those Fairs Cup games in 1969 and bringing home that cup, even the 1974 and 1976 Wembley defeats, that all these years later I'd still be waiting for real success, and never expected to see 3 more Wembley appearances and 3 defeats either.

 

Said to my mate as we walked out of the 1999 Cup Final "the day we fuckin win here will be the day we are sat on this grass without a ticket". The proverbial nightmare.

 

 

[Guest icemanblue]

Is there an award for the thread with the most repeats of a single statement?

[UV]

Clever peice of work that, but again, taken completely out of context. The first quote is specifically relevant to why we werent in a good position to appoint a new maager of decent quality because we had nothing to offer which made our club an appealing club having sacked the  previous legendary manager in extremely poor circumstances.

 

The second quote is a more generaly view which underlines the reasons why the board didnt do a fanstastic job overall, becasue at key times the board made terrible decisions which set the club back more than it should of. This second quote is only minimally linked to SBR- the topic we are discussing, whereas the first quote is directly linked to the fallout after SBR was sacked.

 

 

Just like to point out that it was you who questioned me as to whther i wanted to keep SBR and i said yes, because i thoughtand always thought that had we kept SBR we would be in a much better situation than we are now no the argument is turning to the manner in which he was sacked which wasnt my main point.

 

We both agree that the manner of the sacking was wrong, yes? I beleive the manner of the sacking set the club back becasue it made the job extremely unnattractive because of the circumstances and is the key reason as to why we are in the situation we are in now. You dont think that the club was set back by these decsision.

 

I think that SBR should of been given a chance to turn things around because he was a great manager who done amazing things for us, he was kicked out at the first sign of "trouble". You dont becasue he would of stayed for longer than he should of and he ended up getting cancer so that would of been a hinderence for the club.

 

What more is there to this debate?

 

Try this then

 

Only Spurs and City have gone foreign, and they both picked up managers who were either out of work and familiar with the premiership, or looking to work in the Premiership and biding their time for a job to come up.

 

It's not like there's a whole host of top foreign managers queing up.

 

There are a fair few who have said they want to come to the premierhship, its only the Liverpool job which looks like it will be availbale and appealing to big managers, the next one from that is ours,

 

Houllier

Lippi

Van Gaal

Scolari

Mourihno (said he wants to come back sooner or later)

Hitzfeld

Capello

 

They are all managers in recent times who have said they would like to come to the premiership, not saying that they would come now but just saying the names are out there.

 

p.s Im aware of some of the peoples circumstances, just reiterating that its an appealing league which top class managers want to come to.

 

The fact is is that managers want to manage in this league, its become an ambtions for a lot of managers becuase of the hype and money around the premiership nowadays.

 

If you ask me if it were possilble for a top class foriegn manager to be appointed for nufc, despite todays performance id still say yes because the oppurtunity to manage one fo the big big clubs is becoming rarer and rarer so its a case of the next best thing. Which without a shadow of a doubt is us.

 

Are you now going to argue that we were a more attractive proposition to a top manager as a club that just finished 14th, 7th, 14th who'd had 3 managers in as many years, the last of which lasted half a season, than one which had just finished 4th, 3rd, 5th simply because of the "manner" in which we sacked the previous well respected manager? How is the "manner" in which we got rid of Allardyce any better?

 

You are the one who keeps bringing up the manner of the sacking, I only mention it because you seem to place such an emphasis on it - "I beleive the manner of the sacking set the club back becasue it made the job extremely unnattractive". I don't have a problem with it, and in fact I think (and thought at the time) we should have replaced him in the Summer. I realised that it would have been a very brave and unpopular decision at the time though and replacing him at the end of the season (as was the plan) was a decent compromise which would have allowed us to openly look for a new manager throughout the season (as it was out in the open that Robson was going to be retired from the job).

 

[NE5]

Is there an award for the thread with the most repeats of a single statement?

 

"splash the cash you fat bastard" the winner by two dozen pies

 

 

[Dave]

So do you have any links to Shepherd then NE5, or not? I'm curious.

 

Try to answer using the word 'yes' or the word 'no'. Special bonus points for not mentioning Chris Mort, Craig Bellamy, the Champions League or 1992.