Heading for a problem with Owen

[Keefaz]

Trouble is, Owen is poor in the build up, hasn't got a good enough touch or vision. If he isn't scoring, he contributes nothing. He's been unlucky with some decisions regarding goals of late though.

 

I diagree with this, tbh. Whenever I've seen him drop deep and receive the ball, he's looked composed, tidy and and creative. I think if he did more of it, the Newcastle fans would warm to him a bit more and all he tends to do now is mooch around the box without seeing the ball for 15 minute spells.

[Kev]

The fact that Bolton where happy to play at least 8 at the back wont have helped Owens cause.

 

Yea i agree, problem is some people on this board dont care about things like that, they dont like Owen so it doesnt matter if the service to him was s**** or that he had atleast 4-5 bolton players marking him they will always blame Owen. What makes me laugh, if it was Martins people wouldnt say a thing.

at least we have got our moneys worth out of fucking martins...he scores goals, plays regularly, hardly injured and makes defenders scared...owen does the opposite to everything and people like you cant take your head out of his arse for what he done IN THE PAST for liverpool! hes average now, face it

[Shak]

I've always thought Owen's first touch was pretty good personally.

 

Owen basically needs a striker partner who will do 90% of the work in terms of build-up play and linking up with the midfield, allowing Owen to only come into the game once we get service into the box. It's why his partnership with Heskey actually works so well as Heskey, while not top class by any means, gets himself heavily involved in the game and does all the donkey work.

 

I see Owen as a similiar sort of player to Inzaghi these days, lethal in a top class team with great service, but not someone who you want in a struggling team who won't create a whole lot of chances.

 

Unlikely as we are to get him, I don't doubt for one minute that Berbatov is a target for Keegan as I reckon he'd do wonders for Owen. Perhaps lack of pace would be an issue, but get in a pacey RW and that'd be less of an issue.

 

Would Berbatov and Owen up front with N'Zogbia and SWP on the flanks be too much to ask?

[Guest alex]

Trouble is, Owen is poor in the build up, hasn't got a good enough touch or vision. If he isn't scoring, he contributes nothing. He's been unlucky with some decisions regarding goals of late though.

 

I diagree with this, tbh. Whenever I've seen him drop deep and receive the ball, he's looked composed, tidy and and creative. I think if he did more of it, the Newcastle fans would warm to him a bit more and all he tends to do now is mooch around the box without seeing the ball for 15 minute spells.

In what way creative? Seriously can't remember him creating a thing, picking out a incisive pass or what ever. He's tidy aye, that's the least you'd expect. Not really a dig, it's just not his game.

[Robster]

Cant we just wait until Keegan gets the players playing to his style then judge Michael.

 

Its just been a horrible period at the club throughout his time here and it has no doubt had an effect on his game - as it has on everyones, in cluding the fans. Confidence is the ultimate factor and when KK puts that back into Michaels game, I have no doubt the goals will come.

 

Lets not try and pretend that he isnt very good. Thats just plain daft.

 

[Guest alex]

everyone thinking of excuses for owen?! hes a very average striker and will struggle to play for england, he seems to have lost his touch

Never had that great a first touch though. I appreciate you weren't born when he last played regularly.

...saw enough of him at liverpool and madrid from what i can remember  hes not worth anymore than £10m now, and thats cheap for  a so called 'top class' striker

Two things - why do think he's lost his touch then? If you've seen plenty of him, you'll know he never had a great touch. I'm sure you can appreciate he was having a mare yesterday though and it's better than that. Secondly, why do you rate Martins so much? Given your slating of Owen. There's no way he's good enough to match our ambitions either. Never will be.

i didnt mention his first touch, i just said hes lost his touch. i didnt mean his touch when he recieves the ball i meant hes lost his touch for scoring goals.

yes i USED to say martins was great, i know he has a poor first touch but he actually looks interested more than owen and he scores goals, something owen doesnt do very often when fit.

people say give him a chance but im sick of chances, hes had long enough, time to go for owen imo but i dont think keegan would get rid. i would prefer defoe to owen, but like i say, thats my opinion

Fair enough if that's what you meant but regarding Martins, I still find your staunch defence of him perplexing. All-in-all there's very little between the two of them in terms of how good they are, despite having different assets. And if you compare Martins' and Owen's goalscoring stats, they aren't too different if you look at the Premier League. And I'm fairly sure Owen would have benefitted from playing in the Uefa Cup as it is easier to score against the quality of opposition in that competition no matter what anyone says. You're right when you point out one major asset of Martins over Owen and that is the fitness of the former, he's virtually always available. Owen would be getting fucking slated if he was off on international duty mid-season mind, especially from the likes of you.

[Keefaz]

Trouble is, Owen is poor in the build up, hasn't got a good enough touch or vision. If he isn't scoring, he contributes nothing. He's been unlucky with some decisions regarding goals of late though.

 

I diagree with this, tbh. Whenever I've seen him drop deep and receive the ball, he's looked composed, tidy and and creative. I think if he did more of it, the Newcastle fans would warm to him a bit more and all he tends to do now is mooch around the box without seeing the ball for 15 minute spells.

In what way creative? Seriously can't remember him creating a thing, picking out a incisive pass or what ever. He's tidy aye, that's the least you'd expect. Not really a dig, it's just not his game.

 

OK. Creative was an exagerration, but his hold-up play is very good.

[Guest alex]

Trouble is, Owen is poor in the build up, hasn't got a good enough touch or vision. If he isn't scoring, he contributes nothing. He's been unlucky with some decisions regarding goals of late though.

 

I diagree with this, tbh. Whenever I've seen him drop deep and receive the ball, he's looked composed, tidy and and creative. I think if he did more of it, the Newcastle fans would warm to him a bit more and all he tends to do now is mooch around the box without seeing the ball for 15 minute spells.

In what way creative? Seriously can't remember him creating a thing, picking out a incisive pass or what ever. He's tidy aye, that's the least you'd expect. Not really a dig, it's just not his game.

 

OK. Creative was an exagerration, but his hold-up play is very good.

Like I said, it wasn't a dig, it was more of a counter to suggestions he could play in the withdrawn striker role as was mooted. Can't see him doing much there.

[Offshore]

A striker is only as good as the service he gets, ours usually get little to none.

 

While I don't think Owen is a patch on his earlier days, i'm prepared to see what he's going to be like when he's got a) a decent regular partner and b) quality service.

 

I'd hate to get rid of him then see him knocking them in for another team that gives him both.

 

 

 

[Keefaz]

Trouble is, Owen is poor in the build up, hasn't got a good enough touch or vision. If he isn't scoring, he contributes nothing. He's been unlucky with some decisions regarding goals of late though.

 

I diagree with this, tbh. Whenever I've seen him drop deep and receive the ball, he's looked composed, tidy and and creative. I think if he did more of it, the Newcastle fans would warm to him a bit more and all he tends to do now is mooch around the box without seeing the ball for 15 minute spells.

In what way creative? Seriously can't remember him creating a thing, picking out a incisive pass or what ever. He's tidy aye, that's the least you'd expect. Not really a dig, it's just not his game.

 

OK. Creative was an exagerration, but his hold-up play is very good.

Like I said, it wasn't a dig, it was more of a counter to suggestions he could play in the withdrawn striker role as was mooted. Can't see him doing much there.

 

I agree with that, really, but he could get more involved in the game. He best performances for us, I think, have been when he's held the ball up and laid it off. When he plays this 'poacher' role, and doesn't get a sniff all match, it's a bit like playing with the invisible man out there.

[Guest Knightrider]

Owen's game is very underrated in my opinion. His close control, first touch, passing and awareness is first rate. However he doesn't have the body to adjust his game and to take it in another direction in that way like Shearer did so he's always going to struggle in games unless he's banging them in and even then he will spend a lot of time doing nowt. He lacks the height, physical presence and fighting qualities to use his body any other way, despite having the footballing attributes to more than play another way.

[Guest alex]

His first touch is never 'first rate' like. Neither is his passing. Both are adequate. His awareness in terms of finding space, making runs etc. is excellent but not in terms of finding teams mates, finding a clever pass.

[Guest Knightrider]

His first touch is never 'first rate' like. Neither is his passing. Both are adequate. His awareness in terms of finding space, making runs etc. is excellent but not in terms of finding teams mates, finding a clever pass.

 

I disagree, he rarely loses the ball in terms of passing. He made several sweeping passes out wide in an attempt to switch play or create some width last night and he is constantly evading tackles or tight situations due to his close control and first touch. He's also well balanced as a player due to his frame and that helps with the first touch and close control. He lacks the creative brain to play killer balls so I'd agree with you on that, but in general passing terms he's not bad. He's a technically gifted player Owen. When he was at Madrid (they do technical sessions to assess players' technical skills and weaknesses) he was in the top 5% in terms of technique. For me he lacks the right body though to put all those attributes to more use, unlike Shearer who had the frame to change his game totally. Shame he lost his pace which was half the battle for Owen. He's painfully slow these days.

[Guest alex]

I said he wasn't bad. I also said he wasn't first-rate in that regard, which you now seem to be agreeing with. Plenty players rarely waste the ball but that doesn't make them great passers imo. Great passers have vision. Couldn't say about the stats from Madrid, I'm basing my opinion more on watching him play matches tbh.

[johnnypd]

agree with alex, tho i see where keefaz is coming from too.

 

owen's control used to be poor but he's had to improve that side of his game as he can no longer create space in an instant, in fact he struggles to create space at all. i think his touch and passing is good, but it's workmanlike, ie he'll control the ball well and find his pass 8 or 9 times out of 10 but the touch isn't the kind that will fool an opponent and the pass unlikely to one of great vision. it's more similar to Alan Smith than Mark Viduka.

 

there's also the problem that he can't beat his man or make any sort of run on the ball, he basically has to get rid of it as soon as possible which defeats the point of him trying to hold up the ball. in the past he'd run at great pace but not have the ball under decent control - it didnt matter, the nearest defender was miles away, now they're breathing down his neck. the space that Owen used to exploit was in behind defenders, now he has to play inbetween them and midfield a much more congested area. but you can tell it is not his natural game and there's dozens of strikers in the premiership who play this game better than he does.

 

if he's playing deep and having to link up he's wasted, but he also doesn't have the pace to play on the shoulder, he couldn't even outpace Stoke's defenders never mind Bolton's. the only way we'll get any significant currency out of him is having players in the team that will get beyond him, ie fast wingers who will play quick crosses into the box, and a striker with the pace to stretch teams and the presence to do Owen's work for him. Even then this tactic is only likely to work at home so i wouldn't play in away games.

 

Whether or not his dropping deep was down to Keegan i don't know, Owen was doing that under Allardyce, but then again notes in Owen's (ghostwritten) autobiography suggest it is the case.

[Tooj]

The difference even between the player we bought and the one we have now just shows how much that cruciate has took out of him. Remember on his debut with Fulham when he skinned those players all in close proximity who then hacked him down? He just doesn't have that zip or even confidence to do that anymore.

[Guest Knightrider]

I said he wasn't bad. I also said he wasn't first-rate in that regard, which you now seem to be agreeing with. Plenty players rarely waste the ball but that doesn't make them great passers imo. Great passers have vision. Couldn't say about the stats from Madrid, I'm basing my opinion more on watching him play matches tbh.

 

I didn't say he was a great passer or anything though, first-rate just means really good I suppose.

[Guest alex]

I said he wasn't bad. I also said he wasn't first-rate in that regard, which you now seem to be agreeing with. Plenty players rarely waste the ball but that doesn't make them great passers imo. Great passers have vision. Couldn't say about the stats from Madrid, I'm basing my opinion more on watching him play matches tbh.

 

 

I didn't say he was a great passer or anything though, first-rate just means really good I suppose.

Fucking hell, talk about splitting hairs. How else was I meant to interpret you saying his passing was first rate? You went from 'first-rate' to 'not bad' in the space of two posts or something anyway. And he's neither great nor very good at it. He rarely gives it away because he normally makes safe passes. I would actually say his knowing his own limitations in that regard is a testament to his footballing brain anyway - i.e. he doesn't try things he can't do.