Newcastle is Peru...

[Wallace]

 

It concerns me that "our culture" is slowly dying.  20 years ago, you would very rarely hear a non-local accent but I am shocked that some days in town, I scarcely hear a Geordie accent.  Dialect is starting to die out quite quickly. I think the strong regional identity we have and the pride in our area is slowly being diluted.  Many outsiders are coming in and expensive property is being built with them in mind and out of the price range of local people.  They will not care about our city and history or even our football team.  Even the local broadcast media have few locals these days.  The remoteness of this area has meant that we have managed to maintain "our culture" but I wonder for how much longer.  This area has a unique history (probably going back to Roman times, the Vikings, the Reivers, the Scots etc) which has made the people and the area so different from other parts of the country ie. that live for today mentality because you probably would not be around to see tomorrow.

 

Having lived away from the area and then moved back a few years ago, I have been struck by the differences and it does sadden me. I still think it is a very special place and it is different to the rest of England - I just hope that we can keep it that way,

[madras]

 

It concerns me that "our culture" is slowly dying.  20 years ago, you would very rarely hear a non-local accent but I am shocked that some days in town, I scarcely hear a Geordie accent.  Dialect is starting to die out quite quickly. I think the strong regional identity we have and the pride in our area is slowly being diluted.  Many outsiders are coming in and expensive property is being built with them in mind and out of the price range of local people.  They will not care about our city and history or even our football team.  Even the local broadcast media have few locals these days.  The remoteness of this area has meant that we have managed to maintain "our culture" but I wonder for how much longer.  This area has a unique history (probably going back to Roman times, the Vikings, the Reivers, the Scots etc) which has made the people and the area so different from other parts of the country ie. that live for today mentality because you probably would not be around to see tomorrow.

 

Having lived away from the area and then moved back a few years ago, I have been struck by the differences and it does sadden me. I still think it is a very special place and it is different to the rest of England - I just hope that we can keep it that way,

interesting that you point out  the "unique history" then go on to name more bloody immigrants. our culture isn't dying but changing as it always has and yes you are right  about the remoteness meaning were a bit more resistant change but as time progresses so must we.

 

i get more pissed off when i see a local shop close to be replaced by a next or superdrug,all towns and cities are beginning to look the same (thank god for grainger town,which we must start using better).

[macphisto]

Read some interesting things in this article but a few things have not been mentioned. For me the dispersal of communities has not been big enough as I would clear out large parts of the East End & West End and send them over to Newburn or any other places on the edge of the city. The communities are far too gone and contribute nothing and essentially live on the past.  By the past I mean when the shipyards were thriving and Vickers was big in the West End. I love it when I read about residents protesting against the council doing something in these areas and saying "what a great community spirit they have, great place to live". Let’s face it these places are dumps and they only show themselves up by saying that. This might all sound very harsh but for me that’s the reality of the situation. This would never happen but I also believe if you truly wanted to break the cycle of poverty it would have to involve some drastic measure such as taking the kids away from half the families so that they could grow up with the right values instilled in them. I wouldn’t go down this route as it would be far too problematic to implement but as we can’t do something like this then we just have to live with the fact that these groups exist in society.

 

Build new houses for young professionals/first time families in the areas vacated by the current people. Reason for this being two fold in that it would cut down on commuting times and more importantly create more revenue for the council. That was the whole idea behind "regeneration" "Going for Growth", nothing to do with making places better for existing people but about collecting extra revenue as approximately 200,000 people travel into Newcastle everyday to work and if we could get some of them to live in Newcastle we would collect a lot more council tax. At the moment we have large areas of the city where not a single £ is collected.

 

The last element to growth in our region and by that I mean real growth, is that as a region we have to be a lot more cleverer in our voting. Anyone who knows anything about politics will know that there's no incentive for politicians to do much for the North East as Labour knows they will do well and the Tories know they have no chance!  If politicians had to fight for our vote I would guarantee that things like the A1 being upgraded would have been done by now and not just government money but more importantly government policies would have been more beneficial to the North East. For example start up rates for new businesses in the North East is woeful and something should be done about this!

 

[madras]

Read some interesting things in this article but a few things have not been mentioned. For me the dispersal of communities has not been big enough as I would clear out large parts of the East End & West End and send them over to Newburn or any other places on the edge of the city. The communities are far too gone and contribute nothing and essentially live on the past.  By the past I mean when the shipyards were thriving and Vickers was big in the West End. I love it when I read about residents protesting against the council doing something in these areas and saying "what a great community spirit they have, great place to live". Let’s face it these places are dumps and they only show themselves up by saying that. This might all sound very harsh but for me that’s the reality of the situation. This would never happen but I also believe if you truly wanted to break the cycle of poverty it would have to involve some drastic measure such as taking the kids away from half the families so that they could grow up with the right values instilled in them. I wouldn’t go down this route as it would be far too problematic to implement but as we can’t do something like this then we just have to live with the fact that these groups exist in society.

 

Build new houses for young professionals/first time families in the areas vacated by the current people. Reason for this being two fold in that it would cut down on commuting times and more importantly create more revenue for the council. That was the whole idea behind "regeneration" "Going for Growth", nothing to do with making places better for existing people but about collecting extra revenue as approximately 200,000 people travel into Newcastle everyday to work and if we could get some of them to live in Newcastle we would collect a lot more council tax. At the moment we have large areas of the city where not a single £ is collected.

 

The last element to growth in our region and by that I mean real growth, is that as a region we have to be a lot more cleverer in our voting. Anyone who knows anything about politics will know that there's no incentive for politicians to do much for the North East as Labour knows they will do well and the Tories know they have no chance!  If politicians had to fight for our vote I would guarantee that things like the A1 being upgraded would have been done by now and not just government money but more importantly government policies would have been more beneficial to the North East. For example start up rates for new businesses in the North East is woeful and something should be done about this!

 

cowgate used to be a nice area till they move ina lot of scummers from elswick/scotswood,years ago according to my parents, under that very idea of dispersal.

 

look at cowgate now.

[Guest alex]

 

It concerns me that "our culture" is slowly dying.  20 years ago, you would very rarely hear a non-local accent but I am shocked that some days in town, I scarcely hear a Geordie accent.  Dialect is starting to die out quite quickly. I think the strong regional identity we have and the pride in our area is slowly being diluted.  Many outsiders are coming in and expensive property is being built with them in mind and out of the price range of local people.  They will not care about our city and history or even our football team.  Even the local broadcast media have few locals these days.  The remoteness of this area has meant that we have managed to maintain "our culture" but I wonder for how much longer.  This area has a unique history (probably going back to Roman times, the Vikings, the Reivers, the Scots etc) which has made the people and the area so different from other parts of the country ie. that live for today mentality because you probably would not be around to see tomorrow.

 

Having lived away from the area and then moved back a few years ago, I have been struck by the differences and it does sadden me. I still think it is a very special place and it is different to the rest of England - I just hope that we can keep it that way,

How hypocritical can you get?

[Thespence]

Regarding Cowgate, at work in a meeting room there is picture of these lovely new houses, these being the same houses we are pulling down in Cowgate now. I think they have been up for about 20 years.

 

There is a load of guff being talked in this thread, I should answer the points raised but I deal with housing at work & need some time off.  However I do belive Housing Associations & Councils have learnt harsh & expensive lessons that it isn't just as simple about building new houses.  

[magpie418]

 

Either way, they are to blame. Not fully of course but when you bulldose communities expect problems. Equally when you ignore them, expect things to stay the same or get worse. I personally think the council don't have a clue how to deal with troubled areas one way or another and whether they do or don't is doing nowt but harm. Mind, when you have a bloke living in a 500K house in Gosforth in charge of sorting out a Scotswood, it's not surprising the council haven't a clue. I'm in favour of handing over communities to the people. If you own your house, you look after it. If you rent from a dodgy landlord, are you really bothered? Give people the responsibility they need. If it doesn't work, what's the difference anyway. Too many people today look to everyone but themselves to sort out their problems and that's probably one of the biggest factors behind the problems that exist in these areas.

 

Some very good posts Tiburón, there appears to be various attempts across the country to try and rectify such situations, including this lot, who have managed to make some gains in Oxford and a few other places. 

 

Maybe more people will start realising the score, once their access to credit runs out.

 

 

[Guest Knightrider]

Read some interesting things in this article but a few things have not been mentioned. For me the dispersal of communities has not been big enough as I would clear out large parts of the East End & West End and send them over to Newburn or any other places on the edge of the city. The communities are far too gone and contribute nothing and essentially live on the past.  By the past I mean when the shipyards were thriving and Vickers was big in the West End. I love it when I read about residents protesting against the council doing something in these areas and saying "what a great community spirit they have, great place to live". Let’s face it these places are dumps and they only show themselves up by saying that. This might all sound very harsh but for me that’s the reality of the situation. This would never happen but I also believe if you truly wanted to break the cycle of poverty it would have to involve some drastic measure such as taking the kids away from half the families so that they could grow up with the right values instilled in them. I wouldn’t go down this route as it would be far too problematic to implement but as we can’t do something like this then we just have to live with the fact that these groups exist in society.

 

Build new houses for young professionals/first time families in the areas vacated by the current people. Reason for this being two fold in that it would cut down on commuting times and more importantly create more revenue for the council. That was the whole idea behind "regeneration" "Going for Growth", nothing to do with making places better for existing people but about collecting extra revenue as approximately 200,000 people travel into Newcastle everyday to work and if we could get some of them to live in Newcastle we would collect a lot more council tax. At the moment we have large areas of the city where not a single £ is collected.

 

The last element to growth in our region and by that I mean real growth, is that as a region we have to be a lot more cleverer in our voting. Anyone who knows anything about politics will know that there's no incentive for politicians to do much for the North East as Labour knows they will do well and the Tories know they have no chance!  If politicians had to fight for our vote I would guarantee that things like the A1 being upgraded would have been done by now and not just government money but more importantly government policies would have been more beneficial to the North East. For example start up rates for new businesses in the North East is woeful and something should be done about this!

 

 

So you basically move the problem on? What an awful way to look at the issue, to disperse people and put them god knows where. You don't work for the council do you? You are right though, regeneration is pretty much all about the money and not the people. Sadly.

 

The communities are far too gone now, I agree, but they weren't like that a few years back until demolishing and dispersal was forced on areas and people by a greedy council wanting to cash in on the property boom, wrapped up in "regeneration", "New Hope", "New Future" soundbites to legitimise their actions. Who for though, young professionals?

[Guest Knightrider]

Regarding Cowgate, at work in a meeting room there is picture of these lovely new houses, these being the same houses we are pulling down in Cowgate now. I think they have been up for about 20 years.

 

There is a load of guff being talked in this thread, I should answer the points raised but I deal with housing at work & need some time off.  However I do belive Housing Associations & Councils have learnt harsh & expensive lessons that it isn't just as simple about building new houses. 

 

The whole Cowgate design is like a pen designed to keep the people in. That very housing was wrong from the very start. Too cramped, too intricate and too many houses built on such a small plot of land (I'm talking about the houses over from KFC near Morrisons. It's basically an open Jail. Bad design and planning can effect society as ghettos and high rise blocks have shown in study.

[macphisto]

Read some interesting things in this article but a few things have not been mentioned. For me the dispersal of communities has not been big enough as I would clear out large parts of the East End & West End and send them over to Newburn or any other places on the edge of the city. The communities are far too gone and contribute nothing and essentially live on the past.  By the past I mean when the shipyards were thriving and Vickers was big in the West End. I love it when I read about residents protesting against the council doing something in these areas and saying "what a great community spirit they have, great place to live". Lets face it these places are dumps and they only show themselves up by saying that. This might all sound very harsh but for me thats the reality of the situation. This would never happen but I also believe if you truly wanted to break the cycle of poverty it would have to involve some drastic measure such as taking the kids away from half the families so that they could grow up with the right values instilled in them. I wouldnt go down this route as it would be far too problematic to implement but as we cant do something like this then we just have to live with the fact that these groups exist in society.

 

Build new houses for young professionals/first time families in the areas vacated by the current people. Reason for this being two fold in that it would cut down on commuting times and more importantly create more revenue for the council. That was the whole idea behind "regeneration" "Going for Growth", nothing to do with making places better for existing people but about collecting extra revenue as approximately 200,000 people travel into Newcastle everyday to work and if we could get some of them to live in Newcastle we would collect a lot more council tax. At the moment we have large areas of the city where not a single £ is collected.

 

The last element to growth in our region and by that I mean real growth, is that as a region we have to be a lot more cleverer in our voting. Anyone who knows anything about politics will know that there's no incentive for politicians to do much for the North East as Labour knows they will do well and the Tories know they have no chance!  If politicians had to fight for our vote I would guarantee that things like the A1 being upgraded would have been done by now and not just government money but more importantly government policies would have been more beneficial to the North East. For example start up rates for new businesses in the North East is woeful and something should be done about this!

 

 

So you basically move the problem on? What an awful way to look at the issue, to disperse people and put them god knows where. You don't work for the council do you? You are right though, regeneration is pretty much all about the money and not the people. Sadly.

 

The communities are far too gone now, I agree, but they weren't like that a few years back until demolishing and dispersal was forced on areas and people by a greedy council wanting to cash in on the property boom, wrapped up in "regeneration", "New Hope", "New Future" soundbites to legitimise their actions. Who for though, young professionals?

 

No I don't work for the council! It might sound like an awful way to look at the situation but from my perspective I think moving the problem on is the only way to deal with it. Put them on the outskirts of the city so they can keep themselves to themselves. No matter how much money is pumped in they will never change so it's a waste of time thinking they will. I also think the idea of giving these people more responsibility would not work as they wouldn't have a clue about what to do! I remember a community centre opening in Walker a while back and the local residents decided to call it "Wor Hoose", what they don't realise is how thick they sound whilst the rest of the city is laughing at them. I know this is one very simplistic example but they really are clueless. To be truthful I'm not too bothered about what happens to them as they've never contributed much to society and are just a drain.

 

One other thing and I can only really talk about the East End, but it's been a dump for a lot longer than the last few years. I would say since the mid 1980's at least.

[magpie418]

To be truthful I'm not too bothered about what happens to them as they've never contributed much to society and are just a drain.

 

maybe this place will do the trick?

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/graphics/2008/01/26/et-auschwitz-300.jpg

[Guest Knightrider]

Read some interesting things in this article but a few things have not been mentioned. For me the dispersal of communities has not been big enough as I would clear out large parts of the East End & West End and send them over to Newburn or any other places on the edge of the city. The communities are far too gone and contribute nothing and essentially live on the past.  By the past I mean when the shipyards were thriving and Vickers was big in the West End. I love it when I read about residents protesting against the council doing something in these areas and saying "what a great community spirit they have, great place to live". Let’s face it these places are dumps and they only show themselves up by saying that. This might all sound very harsh but for me that’s the reality of the situation. This would never happen but I also believe if you truly wanted to break the cycle of poverty it would have to involve some drastic measure such as taking the kids away from half the families so that they could grow up with the right values instilled in them. I wouldn’t go down this route as it would be far too problematic to implement but as we can’t do something like this then we just have to live with the fact that these groups exist in society.

 

Build new houses for young professionals/first time families in the areas vacated by the current people. Reason for this being two fold in that it would cut down on commuting times and more importantly create more revenue for the council. That was the whole idea behind "regeneration" "Going for Growth", nothing to do with making places better for existing people but about collecting extra revenue as approximately 200,000 people travel into Newcastle everyday to work and if we could get some of them to live in Newcastle we would collect a lot more council tax. At the moment we have large areas of the city where not a single £ is collected.

 

The last element to growth in our region and by that I mean real growth, is that as a region we have to be a lot more cleverer in our voting. Anyone who knows anything about politics will know that there's no incentive for politicians to do much for the North East as Labour knows they will do well and the Tories know they have no chance!  If politicians had to fight for our vote I would guarantee that things like the A1 being upgraded would have been done by now and not just government money but more importantly government policies would have been more beneficial to the North East. For example start up rates for new businesses in the North East is woeful and something should be done about this!

 

 

So you basically move the problem on? What an awful way to look at the issue, to disperse people and put them god knows where. You don't work for the council do you? You are right though, regeneration is pretty much all about the money and not the people. Sadly.

 

The communities are far too gone now, I agree, but they weren't like that a few years back until demolishing and dispersal was forced on areas and people by a greedy council wanting to cash in on the property boom, wrapped up in "regeneration", "New Hope", "New Future" soundbites to legitimise their actions. Who for though, young professionals?

 

No I don't work for the council! It might sound like an awful way to look at the situation but from my perspective I think moving the problem on is the only way to deal with it. Put them on the outskirts of the city so they can keep themselves to themselves. No matter how much money is pumped in they will never change so it's a waste of time thinking they will. I also think the idea of giving these people more responsibility would not work as they wouldn't have a clue about what to do! I remember a community centre opening in Walker a while back and the local residents decided to call it "Wor Hoose", what they don't realise is how thick they sound whilst the rest of the city is laughing at them. I know this is one very simplistic example but they really are clueless. To be truthful I'm not too bothered about what happens to them as they've never contributed much to society and are just a drain.

 

One other thing and I can only really talk about the East End, but it's been a dump for a lot longer than the last few years. I would say since the mid 1980's at least.

 

Well sorry but that is not the kind of society I want to live in, nor the kind of City I want Newcastle to be because it's the wrong way to manage communities and people and will only ever lead to more problems in the future. I don't know the answers myself but I do know that moving on problems has never ever solved anything. You have to tackle problems head on and be committed to them. To my mind the powers that be have never really been committed. They might have spent a few quid here and there but when you have tax payers to answer to and your accounts open to the public, you have to be seen to be doing something, anything. What these communities need is local leaders, what they are getting is public school educated upper-class people making key decisions on their lives which is wrong because you can't possibly understand the problem when you live in a totally different world to these people regardless of academic skills or work experience, or even compassion. It needs someone who has lived and worked in the area all their lives, someone who knows the people and understand the problems, someone who the people can trust and someone who is respected in the community. If that person can't be found as an individual than a collective needs to be found.

 

Scotswood to use an example doesn't need demolished and the people moved on to be replaced by newer buildings and more professional, better educated people. That's not helping the bottom end of society, that's cutting them off. You do that and you create a sub society, an unlawful one that lives by different rules and ways, that is cut off from the mainstream. And this is Scotswood today and many other areas and people like it.

 

The poverty levels in areas like Scotswood are diabolical, people are living on less than £100 quid a week and this just leads to crime or bending rules. There is a saying around here "you're better off on the dole" and for most, it's true. How sad, this is the message young kids are being fed every day, a world they are being exposed to and forced to become a part of. Education and employment levels are atrocious too where even the basics like parenting skills and the ability to communicate either verbally or writing are also dropping to piss poor levels. Kids around here are thick as fuck. What chance they? It doesn't get much better if you happen to be employed and half intelligent either living in these areas. You can either shield your kids from it all or you let them out into this world and hope your parenting skills, the love they've enjoyed and your family values keep them protected. You do shield them and you create social misfits in an area where if you are different in anyway, you'll get bullied or taken advantage of. You let them out and they mix and the environment eventually gets them, turning them into social misfits anyway. I know countless good parents, all in jobs, loving parents, whose kids are on drugs, stealing and generally on the path to destruction.

 

And you would like to see these people cut off?

 

Blind leading the blind then.

[Guest Strunz]

This is an extremely interesting debate.

 

I'd be interested in hearing more about the racial tensions that go unreported, with economic migrants on the increase, the North East being a destination, and local authorities planning strategies to attract more to the region.

 

I actually work for a local authority, and I'm amazed at the levels of salary and incompetence aligned with a total lack of understanding.

If the people of the North East knew...

[madras]

This is an extremely interesting debate.

 

I'd be interested in hearing more about the racial tensions that go unreported, with economic migrants on the increase, the North East being a destination, and local authorities planning strategies to attract more to the region.

 

I actually work for a local authority, and I'm amazed at the levels of salary and incompetence aligned with a total lack of understanding.

If the people of the North East knew...

not so much racilal tensions as those between an underclass and those above it in the scheme of things.

[Guest Knightrider]

This is an extremely interesting debate.

 

I'd be interested in hearing more about the racial tensions that go unreported, with economic migrants on the increase, the North East being a destination, and local authorities planning strategies to attract more to the region.

 

I actually work for a local authority, and I'm amazed at the levels of salary and incompetence aligned with a total lack of understanding.

If the people of the North East knew...

not so much racilal tensions as those between an underclass and those above it in the scheme of things.

 

There are both those tensions, more so racial (at both ends of the color/race spectrum) in my experience, especially in Benwell and Elswick. Again, mark my words there will be big kick-offs soon. It only takes one incident to spark it all off and everywhere you look there is trouble brewing. Just to use an example off the top of my head. The complete traffic mayhem on Wednesday and Friday's on Elswick Road with the Mosque. I've been past that stretch many a time where one street in particular is blocked off due to cars. If someone had a heart attack they'd have to be carried down the street to an Ambulance which wouldn't be able to get into the street. Now imagine if that person died? A white person? The polis already operate on those days to help congestion and to also keep the peace between those going to the Mosque and residents around that area. People have been abused, cars have been scratched and fights have happened. The prevailing opinion among the white people is that if they parked their cars like that, they'd be clamped or moved by the polis. There is huge resentment brewing. Then there is the ghetto like streets in Benwell. It's a sad state of affairs because the locals have had massive immigration forced onto their doorsteps. In areas where people are being dispersed and homes demolished, when they see a black family from Africa for example getting a 5 bedroom house they resent this. They see foreigners driving around in cars, they don't work, where are they getting the money from? Things like this stoke the flames and build resentment and in worst case scenarios, sheer hatred. The BNP have activists in these areas too which will only make things worse. The whole immigration thing just highlights the total ineptness of the powers that be. But then what do they care? Most of them don't have to live there or can escape it. Wonder how the residents of Jesmond would react if all the new immigrants from Benwell and Elswick were moved to their neck of the woods. People don't want it nor need it, the areas can't cope and there isn't a thing that can be done about it. To speak up and voice concern makes you a racist. But that's the world we live in today.

[madras]

This is an extremely interesting debate.

 

I'd be interested in hearing more about the racial tensions that go unreported, with economic migrants on the increase, the North East being a destination, and local authorities planning strategies to attract more to the region.

 

I actually work for a local authority, and I'm amazed at the levels of salary and incompetence aligned with a total lack of understanding.

If the people of the North East knew...

not so much racilal tensions as those between an underclass and those above it in the scheme of things.

 

There are both those tensions, more so racial (at both ends of the color/race spectrum) in my experience, especially in Benwell and Elswick. Again, mark my words there will be big kick-offs soon. It only takes one incident to spark it all off and everywhere you look there is trouble brewing. Just to use an example off the top of my head. The complete traffic mayhem on Wednesday and Friday's on Elswick Road with the Mosque. I've been past that stretch many a time where one street in particular is blocked off due to cars. If someone had a heart attack they'd have to be carried down the street to an Ambulance which wouldn't be able to get into the street. Now imagine if that person died? A white person? The polis already operate on those days to help congestion and to also keep the peace between those going to the Mosque and residents around that area. People have been abused, cars have been scratched and fights have happened. The prevailing opinion among the white people is that if they parked their cars like that, they'd be clamped or moved by the polis. There is huge resentment brewing. Then there is the ghetto like streets in Benwell. It's a sad state of affairs because the locals have had massive immigration forced onto their doorsteps. In areas where people are being dispersed and homes demolished, when they see a black family from Africa for example getting a 5 bedroom house they resent this. They see foreigners driving around in cars, they don't work, where are they getting the money from? Things like this stoke the flames and build resentment and in worst case scenarios, sheer hatred. The BNP have activists in these areas too which will only make things worse. The whole immigration thing just highlights the total ineptness of the powers that be. But then what do they care? Most of them don't have to live there or can escape it. Wonder how the residents of Jesmond would react if all the new immigrants from Benwell and Elswick were moved to their neck of the woods. People don't want it nor need it, the areas can't cope and there isn't a thing that can be done about it. To speak up and voice concern makes you a racist. But that's the world we live in today.

that really has little to do with racism though...shit parking happens in my street every day (twice i've dragged folk out the post office to shift their cars as the wife couldn't drive down let alone an ambulance and every day,no kidding there is just room to get a car through)

 

the peple at the bottom need someone to blame

[Guest Knightrider]

This is an extremely interesting debate.

 

I'd be interested in hearing more about the racial tensions that go unreported, with economic migrants on the increase, the North East being a destination, and local authorities planning strategies to attract more to the region.

 

I actually work for a local authority, and I'm amazed at the levels of salary and incompetence aligned with a total lack of understanding.

If the people of the North East knew...

not so much racilal tensions as those between an underclass and those above it in the scheme of things.

 

There are both those tensions, more so racial (at both ends of the color/race spectrum) in my experience, especially in Benwell and Elswick. Again, mark my words there will be big kick-offs soon. It only takes one incident to spark it all off and everywhere you look there is trouble brewing. Just to use an example off the top of my head. The complete traffic mayhem on Wednesday and Friday's on Elswick Road with the Mosque. I've been past that stretch many a time where one street in particular is blocked off due to cars. If someone had a heart attack they'd have to be carried down the street to an Ambulance which wouldn't be able to get into the street. Now imagine if that person died? A white person? The polis already operate on those days to help congestion and to also keep the peace between those going to the Mosque and residents around that area. People have been abused, cars have been scratched and fights have happened. The prevailing opinion among the white people is that if they parked their cars like that, they'd be clamped or moved by the polis. There is huge resentment brewing. Then there is the ghetto like streets in Benwell. It's a sad state of affairs because the locals have had massive immigration forced onto their doorsteps. In areas where people are being dispersed and homes demolished, when they see a black family from Africa for example getting a 5 bedroom house they resent this. They see foreigners driving around in cars, they don't work, where are they getting the money from? Things like this stoke the flames and build resentment and in worst case scenarios, sheer hatred. The BNP have activists in these areas too which will only make things worse. The whole immigration thing just highlights the total ineptness of the powers that be. But then what do they care? Most of them don't have to live there or can escape it. Wonder how the residents of Jesmond would react if all the new immigrants from Benwell and Elswick were moved to their neck of the woods. People don't want it nor need it, the areas can't cope and there isn't a thing that can be done about it. To speak up and voice concern makes you a racist. But that's the world we live in today.

that really has little to do with racism though...shit parking happens in my street every day (twice i've dragged folk out the post office to shift their cars as the wife couldn't drive down let alone an ambulance and every day,no kidding there is just room to get a car through)

 

the peple at the bottom need someone to blame

 

It shouldn't, but it just adds to things. The last para, exactly!

[Thespence]

People in the Stanhope Street area get really pissed off on matchdays at SJP with peple parking all over. They also see very little being done by Police/traffic wardens.

[madras]

i actually have no answers,at times there is a dark part of me that thinks it may be easier to forget the scroats as they are too far gone and try and concentrate on their kids.

[MyPalAl]

Fucking hell!

 

I thought this was the football forum? Whats gan on?

 

I must have fucked me computer! 

 

[Keefaz]

i actually have no answers,at times there is a dark part of me that thinks it may be easier to forget the scroats as they are too far gone and try and concentrate on their kids.

 

My feelings exactly, tbh. If we can somehow save the next generation of charva kids from following in their parents' footsteps, we could save this country from going to the fucking dogs.

[macphisto]

i actually have no answers,at times there is a dark part of me that thinks it may be easier to forget the scroats as they are too far gone and try and concentrate on their kids.

 

My feelings exactly, tbh. If we can somehow save the next generation of charva kids from following in their parents' footsteps, we could save this country from going to the f****** dogs.

 

My feelings too though I really think the only way to save the kids would be to take them from the parents which would never happen as it would be impossible to do! Sounds way over the top I know but I can't think of any other way to get real change! Also as a society do we need these groups to function? Which many people have argued that we do!

[indi]

The thing is you can't make people behave how you want them too, it simply doesn't work, well not without some seriously draconian measures being put in place and they'd probably be unworkable in practice. You need them to want to do it. All a council or government can do is try and provide an environment that encourages them to do so, or at least doesn't dissuade them from doing so.

 

The big problem is that a lot of people have no hope, they can't see beyond a pretty miserable future for them and their family. Yet they're continually bombarded by the equivalent of the speedboat at the end of Bullseye, "Here's what you could have won!!". They see conspicuous consumption going on seemingly all around them, they see footballers, for example, driving Bentleys and having huge houses and all the rest of it and then they look at the people around them and they see that they don't have any of those things. Well, actually, there are some people around them who have those things; the criminals have those type of things, don't they. It's hardly surprising that so many young kids living in deprived areas choose an "anti-social" lifestyle, when they see that as the only way they can get the things they're being told they want. The problem is that people's expectations of what they can get, in fact, what they need from life has grown to unrealistic levels, yet their ability to get those things whilst living within the realms of society has decreased.

 

The reason people think it was better in the past is because in the past people had "realistic" or rather, limited expectations about what they could get from life. They tended to work in a similar job to what their father had done and he'd done the same, the rich people were from families that had been rich for a long time and the poor were from families that had been poor for even longer. There was no such thing as social mobility.

 

What there was, was lots of low paid manual-labour type jobs, mining, shipbuilding, and so-on. These jobs didn't offer much, you weren't going to get rich, but you could fulfil your dreams. The fact that your dreams consisted of having your own place - maybe - marrying the girl next-door, having a couple of kids and going to the match every other week, didn't matter, those were your dreams and they were achievable within the confines of society.

 

Those type of jobs have gone from this country, at least for a generation or two, until the Chinese get too rich and see making DVD-players for a couple of quid a day as being beneath them. Unfortunately, those unrealistic expectations are here to stay it seems, as long as a handful of poor people can make it rich, seemingly without putting in any real work, ie being footballers, musicians, etc, then people are going to want the same stuff they see those people with. Put those two things together and you're going to be left with a load of people who either see the things they want from life as totally unachievable and think what's the point in conforming with society, or see the things they want from life as only achievable by not conforming with society, either way there's a whole load of people outside of "normal" society.

 

How the rest of us cope with this is beyond me and is also probably beyond our government too, but one thing that I think we could do with is a few "poor-boys done good", people who aren't geniuses, but worked hard at school and so-on and made it big. Some examples to give people a bit of hope that they can get the things they want within society, if they're prepared to work for them. Needless to say it needs to actually be possible for them to do this and that's the job of the councils and governments of this world. Regeneration is part of that, but it goes well beyond that.

[Wullie]

Some great points there, indi, good post.

[Offshore]

What there was, was lots of low paid manual-labour type jobs, mining, shipbuilding, and so-on. These jobs didn't offer much, you weren't going to get rich, but you could fulfil your dreams. The fact that your dreams consisted of having your own place - maybe - marrying the girl next-door, having a couple of kids and going to the match every other week, didn't matter, those were your dreams and they were achievable within the confines of society.

 

 

 

Actually those jobs in the main weren't 'low-paid' at all, if you were lucky enough to have family already at the pit (can't comment on the way the shipyards worked) or were able to get a start anyhow that was you virtually sorted for life. I realise that i'm talking about the wages being high in relation to the average working wage at that time but eveythings relative to the person and his surroundings who earns them.

 

The wages of the workforce at Bates in Blyth in the most kept the rest of the towns shops & bars going. Also there was a hell of alot more, industrial type service work that got a hell of alot of work thrown its way by the pit. All of this filtered down to benefit everyone. Before the 80's strike and subsequent  decimation of the UK coal industry, Blyth, while no St Tropez, wasn't half as bad as it is/was in the late 80's / 90's or even now - can anyone associate anything other than drugs related deaths with Blyth?

 

I agree wholly with you on folk having 'no-hope' their aims and goals seem to be set on getting a council house and seeing what benefits they can get. Part of me, the working tax-payer part, finds that a gross waste of MY taxes, but on the other hand part of me can't really blame them..........what are the realistic alternatives.