Let's have your honest criticism of N'zogbia

[TRon]

Duff's been fucking shit. Can't believe some of the praise he gets. Even his better displays have only been good relative to his usual non-shows in black and white.

 

He looked quite sharp when he returned but his end product has been zero. He also looks like one of those players you can count on least when it gets tough.

[Rich]

Johnny making sense as usual.

 

All I can suggest is that Enrique is awful in training. Whether that simply be his attitude/application, who knows, because he seems an able enough player.

 

It's strange that both Allardyce and Keegan have opted for N'Zogbia and Carr ahead of him.

 

Too much ice cream from Nut's mate at the Metro Centre??

[Guest alex]

There's a rabbit off regarding Enrique if you ask me. Not injured, not even on the bench.

[Rich]

Duff's been fucking shit. Can't believe some of the praise he gets. Even his better displays have only been good relative to his usual non-shows in black and white.

 

He looked quite sharp when he returned but his end product has been zero. He also looks like one of those players you can count on least when it gets tough.

 

I've not given up hope on Duff working out for us, because his class is sometimes evident. He's another player mightily handicapped by our central midfield/strikers. He at least looked interested and was involved plenty against Man Utd, although most of our initial threat came down the right thanks to Milner and Beye.

 

This is why I think it won't take ridiculous numbers of changes to make us compete again, because we have players who will look infinitely better with some quality players to feed off. Obviously some of them aren't good enough - both central midfielders and the target men we've been playing, and we're still crying out for a proper centre half/left-back.

 

A lot of our players aren't beyond saving though. Duff has lost a bit of pace, but he could still play his part here. Not now though, and not at left-wing.

[Guest Sniffer]

Tron watch it again. n'zogbia, suppoosedly a creative player, plays a ten yard pass to baron in the centre circle where he is surrounded by 4 manure players.

 

Clearly, there is a big difference between you watching a game and understanding it.

[Keefaz]

If we weren't in the shit, people would be saying that Duff's actually made a fairly promising return from long-tern injury. I've never rated him for us, but there are signs that he could be a good player for us if he keeps his head down.

[Guest alex]

Tron watch it again. n'zogbia, suppoosedly a creative player, plays a ten yard pass to baron in the centre circle where he is surrounded by 4 manure players.

 

Clearly, there is a big difference between you watching a game and understanding it.

The fact you keep harping on about that shows just how obsessed you are with putting the kid down. And he's probably the best player we've got (certainly one of the best).

[Rich]

If we weren't in the shit, people would be saying that Duff's actually made a fairly promising return from long-tern injury. I've never rated him for us, but there are signs that he could be a good player for us if he keeps his head down.

 

Aye, it's plain to see the drive is there and he's looked a lot sharper with each passing game. He's still offering nowt though, like the rest of them.

 

The only reason I'm using to put N'Zogbia up there in his place is that he can make something happen from nothing, he has the pace to beat one or two men and get to the byline. Duff cannot do it.

 

N'Zogbia has been the heartbeat of this team in some of our darkest days in recent years, there's no reason why he can't do it again. There have been times when he has been the only player to create anything for us, which can also be said of Milner. There was a time last season where Milner looked like the only player capable of creating a chance or smashing one in himself, Duff is yet to offer this to us.

[Guest Sniffer]

I go by what I see on the pitch alex. Not what I think I see like a lot of people on here. You as well if you think n'zogbia is the best player we've got.

[TRon]

Tron watch it again. n'zogbia, suppoosedly a creative player, plays a ten yard pass to baron in the centre circle where he is surrounded by 4 manure players.

 

Clearly, there is a big difference between you watching a game and understanding it.

 

Surrounded? They were 10 yards away. What do you expect in midfield, all the Man U players should retreat to their own penalty area while Barton collects and composes himself? He'd still probably miss the fucking pass.

 

 

[Rich]

Tron watch it again. n'zogbia, suppoosedly a creative player, plays a ten yard pass to baron in the centre circle where he is surrounded by 4 manure players.

 

Clearly, there is a big difference between you watching a game and understanding it.

The fact you keep harping on about that shows just how obsessed you are with putting the kid down. And he's probably the best player we've got (certainly one of the best).

 

It's idiots like that who hated Robert man, because they couldn't see what he offered outside of "not tracking back."

 

Got a fucking cheek telling Tron he doesn't understand the game like

[bulivye]

Hopefully with Geremi back around the place, his mood will have lightened as well. He does tend to get stroppy when his French-speaking mates aren't in the side.

 

this is a good point.  perhaps some of his flaws could be improved if he spoke better english? 

 

fao The Janitor:

    did you notice my thread's initial cap? 

 

It was magical stuff, aye! You missed the capital Z off N'Zogbia like

 

ARRGH!  i have no recourse but to fall on my sword. 

[johnnypd]

Duff's been fucking shit. Can't believe some of the praise he gets. Even his better displays have only been good relative to his usual non-shows in black and white.

 

He looked quite sharp when he returned but his end product has been zero. He also looks like one of those players you can count on least when it gets tough.

 

I've not given up hope on Duff working out for us, because his class is sometimes evident. He's another player mightily handicapped by our central midfield/strikers. He at least looked interested and was involved plenty against Man Utd, although most of our initial threat came down the right thanks to Milner and Beye.

 

This is why I think it won't take ridiculous numbers of changes to make us compete again, because we have players who will look infinitely better with some quality players to feed off. Obviously some of them aren't good enough - both central midfielders and the target men we've been playing, and we're still crying out for a proper centre half/left-back.

 

A lot of our players aren't beyond saving though. Duff has lost a bit of pace, but he could still play his part here. Not now though, and not at left-wing.

 

Where do you think Duff could play for us, if not at left-wing?

[Guest alex]

I go by what I see on the pitch alex. Not what I think I see like a lot of people on here. You as well if you think n'zogbia is the best player we've got.

That doesn't even make sense.

[Guest Sniffer]

You know what I mean Alex. And that it's true.

 

As for tron. He misses the point and just supports the fact he knows little about football.

[TRon]

You know what I mean Alex. And that it's true.

 

As for tron. He misses the point and just supports the fact he knows little about football.

 

you've said that so it must be true.

[Guest Sniffer]

Glad you see the light. There may be hope for you yet.

[Rich]

Duff's been fucking shit. Can't believe some of the praise he gets. Even his better displays have only been good relative to his usual non-shows in black and white.

 

He looked quite sharp when he returned but his end product has been zero. He also looks like one of those players you can count on least when it gets tough.

 

I've not given up hope on Duff working out for us, because his class is sometimes evident. He's another player mightily handicapped by our central midfield/strikers. He at least looked interested and was involved plenty against Man Utd, although most of our initial threat came down the right thanks to Milner and Beye.

 

This is why I think it won't take ridiculous numbers of changes to make us compete again, because we have players who will look infinitely better with some quality players to feed off. Obviously some of them aren't good enough - both central midfielders and the target men we've been playing, and we're still crying out for a proper centre half/left-back.

 

A lot of our players aren't beyond saving though. Duff has lost a bit of pace, but he could still play his part here. Not now though, and not at left-wing.

 

Where do you think Duff could play for us, if not at left-wing?

 

I think he should be sat on the bench at the moment, then tried in behind Owen/Martins if one gets injured or the partnership doesn't work/isn't given a chance.

 

He looks to me to be a player who now needs pace around him to function properly, because he seems to have the eye for a bit of pass-n-move, unlike any of our other midfielders.

 

At Blackburn in particular he had all the tricks and a lot more pace than he has now, which meant he still performed to an exceptional level because he could do a lot by himself - much like I've seen N'Zogbia do for us. Now that he's lost that extra yard, he struggles to beat people to the byline and looks to have started to model his game on feeding balls into the strikers and then running off them - quite probably the way he was trained to play at Chelsea.

 

Unless our playing style alters dramatically away from what it is now and what I expect Keegan to play (fairly direct attacking football with two wingers and two mobile central midfielders, fullbacks bombing on, etc.) then I'm struggling to see him as a first choice player.

 

Sitting on the left-flank I get to see a fair bit of Duff from a good vantage point and I'm yet to see him square up to a man, take it past him to the byline and swing a ball in. All of his crosses come from stationary positions, making it nigh-on impossible for the strikers to do anything worthwhile with them.

 

The best game I've seen Duff have was AZ home last season, when him and Martins linked nicely together and Duff was often in acres of space (more to do with AZ's formation than anything, IIRC) - but that was a one-off because AZ played in such a strange fashion.

 

It's a puzzle, but for me there's only one winner between Duff and N'Zogbia for that LW spot in the current climate.

[Guest alex]

You know what I mean Alex. And that it's true.

 

As for tron. He misses the point and just supports the fact he knows little about football.

I haven't got a clue what the bit I bolded was meant to mean. Stop trying to be clever, it doesn't suit you.

In any case it says it all to me that you're apportioning blame to him for a goal that was essentially down to Barton losing possession.

[johnnypd]

Duff's been fucking shit. Can't believe some of the praise he gets. Even his better displays have only been good relative to his usual non-shows in black and white.

 

He looked quite sharp when he returned but his end product has been zero. He also looks like one of those players you can count on least when it gets tough.

 

I've not given up hope on Duff working out for us, because his class is sometimes evident. He's another player mightily handicapped by our central midfield/strikers. He at least looked interested and was involved plenty against Man Utd, although most of our initial threat came down the right thanks to Milner and Beye.

 

This is why I think it won't take ridiculous numbers of changes to make us compete again, because we have players who will look infinitely better with some quality players to feed off. Obviously some of them aren't good enough - both central midfielders and the target men we've been playing, and we're still crying out for a proper centre half/left-back.

 

A lot of our players aren't beyond saving though. Duff has lost a bit of pace, but he could still play his part here. Not now though, and not at left-wing.

 

Where do you think Duff could play for us, if not at left-wing?

 

I think he should be sat on the bench at the moment, then tried in behind Owen/Martins if one gets injured or the partnership doesn't work/isn't given a chance.

 

He looks to me to be a player who now needs pace around him to function properly, because he seems to have the eye for a bit of pass-n-move, unlike any of our other midfielders.

 

At Blackburn in particular he had all the tricks and a lot more pace than he has now, which meant he still performed to an exceptional level because he could do a lot by himself - much like I've seen N'Zogbia do for us. Now that he's lost that extra yard, he struggles to beat people to the byline and looks to have started to model his game on feeding balls into the strikers and then running off them - quite probably the way he was trained to play at Chelsea.

 

Unless our playing style alters dramatically away from what it is now and what I expect Keegan to play (fairly direct attacking football with two wingers and two mobile central midfielders, fullbacks bombing on, etc.) then I'm struggling to see him as a first choice player.

 

Sitting on the left-flank I get to see a fair bit of Duff from a good vantage point and I'm yet to see him square up to a man, take it past him to the byline and swing a ball in. All of his crosses come from stationary positions, making it nigh-on impossible for the strikers to do anything worthwhile with them.

 

The best game I've seen Duff have was AZ home last season, when him and Martins linked nicely together and Duff was often in acres of space (more to do with AZ's formation than anything, IIRC) - but that was a one-off because AZ played in such a strange fashion.

 

It's a puzzle, but for me there's only one winner between Duff and N'Zogbia for that LW spot in the current climate.

 

I agree with that.

 

Another point, Duff seemed to have much more power at Blackburn too, remember he used to hit unstoppable shots into the top corner every few weeks or so. Now his shots look unbelievably feeble. This might be related to his loss of pace - ie, legs have gone.

[madras]

Duff's been f****** s***. Can't believe some of the praise he gets. Even his better displays have only been good relative to his usual non-shows in black and white.

 

He looked quite sharp when he returned but his end product has been zero. He also looks like one of those players you can count on least when it gets tough.

 

I've not given up hope on Duff working out for us, because his class is sometimes evident. He's another player mightily handicapped by our central midfield/strikers. He at least looked interested and was involved plenty against Man Utd, although most of our initial threat came down the right thanks to Milner and Beye.

 

This is why I think it won't take ridiculous numbers of changes to make us compete again, because we have players who will look infinitely better with some quality players to feed off. Obviously some of them aren't good enough - both central midfielders and the target men we've been playing, and we're still crying out for a proper centre half/left-back.

 

A lot of our players aren't beyond saving though. Duff has lost a bit of pace, but he could still play his part here. Not now though, and not at left-wing.

 

Where do you think Duff could play for us, if not at left-wing?

 

I think he should be sat on the bench at the moment, then tried in behind Owen/Martins if one gets injured or the partnership doesn't work/isn't given a chance.

 

He looks to me to be a player who now needs pace around him to function properly, because he seems to have the eye for a bit of pass-n-move, unlike any of our other midfielders.

 

At Blackburn in particular he had all the tricks and a lot more pace than he has now, which meant he still performed to an exceptional level because he could do a lot by himself - much like I've seen N'Zogbia do for us. Now that he's lost that extra yard, he struggles to beat people to the byline and looks to have started to model his game on feeding balls into the strikers and then running off them - quite probably the way he was trained to play at Chelsea.

 

Unless our playing style alters dramatically away from what it is now and what I expect Keegan to play (fairly direct attacking football with two wingers and two mobile central midfielders, fullbacks bombing on, etc.) then I'm struggling to see him as a first choice player.

 

Sitting on the left-flank I get to see a fair bit of Duff from a good vantage point and I'm yet to see him square up to a man, take it past him to the byline and swing a ball in. All of his crosses come from stationary positions, making it nigh-on impossible for the strikers to do anything worthwhile with them.

 

The best game I've seen Duff have was AZ home last season, when him and Martins linked nicely together and Duff was often in acres of space (more to do with AZ's formation than anything, IIRC) - but that was a one-off because AZ played in such a strange fashion.

 

It's a puzzle, but for me there's only one winner between Duff and N'Zogbia for that LW spot in the current climate.

 

I agree with that.

 

Another point, Duff seemed to have much more power at Blackburn too, remember he used to hit unstoppable shots into the top corner every few weeks or so. Now his shots look unbelievably feeble. This might be related to his loss of pace - ie, legs have gone.

i think it's as much related to that he is soooo very out wide these days. if he comes inside the full back rarely comes outside and to recieve the ball instead of it being played quick it's normally been played via midfiled with 3 players having several touches so the oppo can squeeze the play meaning whoever is out wide has to go to the touch line tryiong to find space (this happens regardless of who we have playing wide)

[TRon]

 

Unless our playing style alters dramatically away from what it is now and what I expect Keegan to play (fairly direct attacking football with two wingers and two mobile central midfielders, fullbacks bombing on, etc.) then I'm struggling to see him as a first choice player.

 

 

The difference two mobile central midfielders would make can't be under-estimated. Duff hasn't been great but he's been isolated too many times when he's on the ball IMO.

 

 

 

[Rich]

Aye Tron, but that's exactly my point. Why use Duff in the current team when it's clear he can do next to nowt?

 

N'Zogbia has played with worse players than this and performed to a high level, so I don't see why he can't do it again.

 

I'd say N'Zogbia relies more on individual ability and his natural attributes than he does on team-mates, unlike the Duff of today.

[Rich]

I just look back fondly on how threatening we'd seem when the 'keeper would collect the ball from an opposition attack, N'Zogbia would be screaming for it in space on the left, he'd receive the ball and turn with an almighty roar from the ground cheering him on.

 

He can turn defence into attack far quicker than any of our other players, which we haven't seen at all this season unfortunately. We do everything at such a slow pace these days that little outlets like this could make a massive difference to us.

[madras]

I just look back fondly on how threatening we'd seem when the 'keeper would collect the ball from an opposition attack, N'Zogbia would be screaming for it in space on the left, he'd receive the ball and turn with an almighty roar from the ground cheering him on.

 

He can turn defence into attack far quicker than any of our other players, which we haven't seen at all this season unfortunately. We do everything at such a slow pace these days that little outlets like this could make a massive difference to us.

2005-06