Guest Knightrider Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 Martins lacks the co-ordination to control that ball sufficiently enough to put it to much use and that's not going to change now or ever. He's basically not a footballer, he's someone with pace, power and has had the good fortune of many years of expert coaching to teach him the basics in technique and the right environment to develop his skills in. Which without he'd still be in Nigeria playing football on the streets as a hobby. The hell? Martins has brilliant shot technique, that's how he gets so much power behind them. He gets so much power behind his snap shots because his shooting technique allows him to get sufficient power when he gets little back lift. He strikes the ball more sweetly than any other player at our club. One of the goals he scored against Spurs last season highlights this, you could try a 100 times and not hit the ball so sweetly and powerfully. No co-ordination? Just look at the volley he had yesterday. Chest then boom.. his control of the ball is poor but he doesn't lack co-ordination. By your account Dwayne Chambers would be as good a footballer as Martins if he had the right training. His shooting technique is very good, you can picture him playing as a kid on bobbly hard surfaces in Africa snapping at the ball from all kinds of angles and ranges as that kind of technique can't really be taught. Control however involves a high degree of co-ordination, especially the act of controlling a ball in flight and in motion. Technique btw is the execution of something, i.e. striking a ball, heading it or passing it. Shooting doesn't require a great deal of co-ordination unless you first have to control it or are required to make a run and time yourself. He rarely gets goals that way and he won't because his co-ordination levels are poor. Anyone can become a footballer with the right kind of training. Many are playing the game today who are not natural footballers. Indeed it's a myth that footballers are born. Most aren't, they are made or conditioned into one using a few building blocks to work with like pace and strength which are the modern day must haves. Your greats though, all natural talent. So yes, Chambers would be as good a footballer as Martins if he had the right training. 10 years from the age of 8 to 18 is the kind of figures we are talking about. Quality of coaching, type of coaching, building blocks to start with and mental strengths will determine whether after that 10 years you have a footballer on your hands or not. Don't expect a top footballer though if co-ordination levels are poor. Shola Ameobi has the same problems btw. Can't really be arsed to debunk all that at present so I'll just ask you this, are you on wind-up or what? Debunk what? That Martins' co-ordination levels are poor? That technique is more important in shooting than anything else? That someone can't be turned into a footballer with the right kind of training? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 That anyone can become a footballer with the right kind of training. Unless you meant anyone can be a footballer in the sense that they can play 5-a-side at an ok-ish level with their mates. Even then I'm not sure. And that was just the main one that stood out. And Chambers would be as good as Martins? I'm hardly a massive fan of Martins but I honestly think you have zero appreciation of just how good pro footballers are. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 Martins lacks the co-ordination to control that ball sufficiently enough to put it to much use and that's not going to change now or ever. He's basically not a footballer, he's someone with pace, power and has had the good fortune of many years of expert coaching to teach him the basics in technique and the right environment to develop his skills in. Which without he'd still be in Nigeria playing football on the streets as a hobby. The hell? Martins has brilliant shot technique, that's how he gets so much power behind them. He gets so much power behind his snap shots because his shooting technique allows him to get sufficient power when he gets little back lift. He strikes the ball more sweetly than any other player at our club. One of the goals he scored against Spurs last season highlights this, you could try a 100 times and not hit the ball so sweetly and powerfully. No co-ordination? Just look at the volley he had yesterday. Chest then boom.. his control of the ball is poor but he doesn't lack co-ordination. By your account Dwayne Chambers would be as good a footballer as Martins if he had the right training. His shooting technique is very good, you can picture him playing as a kid on bobbly hard surfaces in Africa snapping at the ball from all kinds of angles and ranges as that kind of technique can't really be taught. Control however involves a high degree of co-ordination, especially the act of controlling a ball in flight and in motion. Technique btw is the execution of something, i.e. striking a ball, heading it or passing it. Shooting doesn't require a great deal of co-ordination unless you first have to control it or are required to make a run and time yourself. He rarely gets goals that way and he won't because his co-ordination levels are poor. Anyone can become a footballer with the right kind of training. Many are playing the game today who are not natural footballers. Indeed it's a myth that footballers are born. Most aren't, they are made or conditioned into one using a few building blocks to work with like pace and strength which are the modern day must haves. Your greats though, all natural talent. So yes, Chambers would be as good a footballer as Martins if he had the right training. 10 years from the age of 8 to 18 is the kind of figures we are talking about. Quality of coaching, type of coaching, building blocks to start with and mental strengths will determine whether after that 10 years you have a footballer on your hands or not. Don't expect a top footballer though if co-ordination levels are poor. Shola Ameobi has the same problems btw. Can't really be arsed to debunk all that at present so I'll just ask you this, are you on wind-up or what? Alex, you can't possibly know more than the Coach. He's a coach. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colocho Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 Can't sack King Kev. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 Martins lacks the co-ordination to control that ball sufficiently enough to put it to much use and that's not going to change now or ever. He's basically not a footballer, he's someone with pace, power and has had the good fortune of many years of expert coaching to teach him the basics in technique and the right environment to develop his skills in. Which without he'd still be in Nigeria playing football on the streets as a hobby. The hell? Martins has brilliant shot technique, that's how he gets so much power behind them. He gets so much power behind his snap shots because his shooting technique allows him to get sufficient power when he gets little back lift. He strikes the ball more sweetly than any other player at our club. One of the goals he scored against Spurs last season highlights this, you could try a 100 times and not hit the ball so sweetly and powerfully. No co-ordination? Just look at the volley he had yesterday. Chest then boom.. his control of the ball is poor but he doesn't lack co-ordination. By your account Dwayne Chambers would be as good a footballer as Martins if he had the right training. His shooting technique is very good, you can picture him playing as a kid on bobbly hard surfaces in Africa snapping at the ball from all kinds of angles and ranges as that kind of technique can't really be taught. Control however involves a high degree of co-ordination, especially the act of controlling a ball in flight and in motion. Technique btw is the execution of something, i.e. striking a ball, heading it or passing it. Shooting doesn't require a great deal of co-ordination unless you first have to control it or are required to make a run and time yourself. He rarely gets goals that way and he won't because his co-ordination levels are poor. Anyone can become a footballer with the right kind of training. Many are playing the game today who are not natural footballers. Indeed it's a myth that footballers are born. Most aren't, they are made or conditioned into one using a few building blocks to work with like pace and strength which are the modern day must haves. Your greats though, all natural talent. So yes, Chambers would be as good a footballer as Martins if he had the right training. 10 years from the age of 8 to 18 is the kind of figures we are talking about. Quality of coaching, type of coaching, building blocks to start with and mental strengths will determine whether after that 10 years you have a footballer on your hands or not. Don't expect a top footballer though if co-ordination levels are poor. Shola Ameobi has the same problems btw. Can't really be arsed to debunk all that at present so I'll just ask you this, are you on wind-up or what? Alex, you can't possibly know more than the Coach. He's a coach. More of a faciilitator apparently. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 That anyone can become a footballer with the right kind of training. Unless you meant anyone can be a footballer in the sense that they can play 5-a-side at an ok-ish level with their mates. Even then I'm not sure. And that was just the main one that stood out. And Chambers would be as good as Martins? I'm hardly a massive fan of Martins but I honestly think you have zero appreciation of just how good pro footballers are. If Chambers practiced every day from the age of 8 for 10 years solid and got expert coaching from the likes of Inter Milan, he'd be sufficiently decent enough technically to be able to play football at a high level. High level being professional football. This isn't just my opinion btw, it's the opinion of most academies and even Arsene Wenger who all believe that football can be coached and learned by the vast majority of kids. Obviously it isn't as simple as that, many factors decide, but effectively, yes, anyone can become a footballer in theory with the right training, environment and will to succeed etc. I am fully in appreciation of how good professional footballers are btw, to such an extent I'm now starting to see that ability doesn't even tell you half of it, it's mainly what goes on in the head that determines how good a footballer someone can be or is. Technically Owen is no better than Martins, what separates the two is what goes on in the head and not ability. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 Laugh all you will fellas, this isn't some crack pot theory. We wouldn't have academies if they didn't think they could turn a kid into a footballer. Every kid they get through the door isn't some finished article you know or blessed with amazing ability. In fact most are very much the same ability wise. And if people want to deny that Martins' co-ordination levels are shite... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 That anyone can become a footballer with the right kind of training. Unless you meant anyone can be a footballer in the sense that they can play 5-a-side at an ok-ish level with their mates. Even then I'm not sure. And that was just the main one that stood out. And Chambers would be as good as Martins? I'm hardly a massive fan of Martins but I honestly think you have zero appreciation of just how good pro footballers are. If Chambers practiced every day from the age of 8 for 10 years solid and got expert coaching from the likes of Inter Milan, he'd be sufficiently decent enough technically to be able to play football at a high level. High level being professional football. This isn't just my opinion btw, it's the opinion of most academies and even Arsene Wenger who all believe that football can be coached and learned by the vast majority of kids. Obviously it isn't as simple as that, many factors decide, but effectively, yes, anyone can become a footballer in theory with the right training, environment and will to succeed etc. I am fully in appreciation of how good professional footballers are btw, to such an extent I'm now starting to see that ability doesn't even tell you half of it, it's mainly what goes on in the head that determines how good a footballer someone can be or is. Technically Owen is no better than Martins, what separates the two is what goes on in the head and not ability. No he couldn't man (re: Chambers). The only people who get that level of coaching are the ones who already showed enough natural ability to set them apart from the rest. And Owen is technically better than Martins. Although Owen isn't brilliant in that regard either. As though you have time to think before controlling the ball or whatever (first touch probably being the most important technique of all). You probably do think you'd have been good enough if you'd been coached since you were a barin, don't you? Fuck me Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 If it were that easy we wouldn't have all these problems with the national team tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 Laugh all you will fellas, this isn't some crack pot theory. We wouldn't have academies if they didn't think they could turn a kid into a footballer. Every kid they get through the door isn't some finished article you know or blessed with amazing ability. In fact most are very much the same ability wise. And if people want to deny that Martins' co-ordination levels are shite... Who said kids were the finished article before they went to academies then? They're the ones who've shown enough innate talent to there in the first place though. If what you were saying was correct though every kid who went to an academy and worked their socks off and looked after themselves in terms of lifestyle etc. would make the grade, whereas most of them don't because they don't have the natural talent etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 That anyone can become a footballer with the right kind of training. Unless you meant anyone can be a footballer in the sense that they can play 5-a-side at an ok-ish level with their mates. Even then I'm not sure. And that was just the main one that stood out. And Chambers would be as good as Martins? I'm hardly a massive fan of Martins but I honestly think you have zero appreciation of just how good pro footballers are. If Chambers practiced every day from the age of 8 for 10 years solid and got expert coaching from the likes of Inter Milan, he'd be sufficiently decent enough technically to be able to play football at a high level. High level being professional football. This isn't just my opinion btw, it's the opinion of most academies and even Arsene Wenger who all believe that football can be coached and learned by the vast majority of kids. Obviously it isn't as simple as that, many factors decide, but effectively, yes, anyone can become a footballer in theory with the right training, environment and will to succeed etc. I am fully in appreciation of how good professional footballers are btw, to such an extent I'm now starting to see that ability doesn't even tell you half of it, it's mainly what goes on in the head that determines how good a footballer someone can be or is. Technically Owen is no better than Martins, what separates the two is what goes on in the head and not ability. Oba is better than Michael. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 That anyone can become a footballer with the right kind of training. Unless you meant anyone can be a footballer in the sense that they can play 5-a-side at an ok-ish level with their mates. Even then I'm not sure. And that was just the main one that stood out. And Chambers would be as good as Martins? I'm hardly a massive fan of Martins but I honestly think you have zero appreciation of just how good pro footballers are. If Chambers practiced every day from the age of 8 for 10 years solid and got expert coaching from the likes of Inter Milan, he'd be sufficiently decent enough technically to be able to play football at a high level. High level being professional football. This isn't just my opinion btw, it's the opinion of most academies and even Arsene Wenger who all believe that football can be coached and learned by the vast majority of kids. Obviously it isn't as simple as that, many factors decide, but effectively, yes, anyone can become a footballer in theory with the right training, environment and will to succeed etc. I am fully in appreciation of how good professional footballers are btw, to such an extent I'm now starting to see that ability doesn't even tell you half of it, it's mainly what goes on in the head that determines how good a footballer someone can be or is. Technically Owen is no better than Martins, what separates the two is what goes on in the head and not ability. No he couldn't man (re: Chambers). The only people who get that level of coaching are the ones who already showed enough natural ability to set them apart from the rest. And Owen is technically better than Martins. Although Owen isn't brilliant in that regard either. As though you have time to think before controlling the ball or whatever (first touch probably being the most important technique of all). You probably do think you'd have been good enough if you'd been coached since you were a barin, don't you? Fuck me The bit in bold, that's bull. Guess what Chelsea look for in young players first and foremost because to them technique and ability can be coached? Pace, character and physical strength. If they can find a kid with those things then they are confident they can teach the them the football things like technique, control and skills. In today's football development ability isn't essential as it really can be taught or learned hence why I said (and I'm not alone in this view) that in theory, anyone can become a footballer. I disagree that Owen is any better technically than Martins. Shooting wise Owen's technique is average compared to Martins'. Although Owen's brain gets him into far better positions and enables to time his runs far better.... Martins on the other hand So what is it then for you Alex, is it that Martins has a shite footballing brain which I'm sure I've read you post? But they don't have time to think man... nah, it's his co-ordination levels. They are poor. When you're waiting for a cross you have time to think, especially if Milner's on the ball. Anyway, co-ordination isn't teh act of thinking, it's more about reactions being programmed by your body. When you go to the bog you don't think about it but a million and one processes are dragging your body along. Same applies to ball control. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 Laugh all you will fellas, this isn't some crack pot theory. We wouldn't have academies if they didn't think they could turn a kid into a footballer. Every kid they get through the door isn't some finished article you know or blessed with amazing ability. In fact most are very much the same ability wise. And if people want to deny that Martins' co-ordination levels are s****... Who said kids were the finished article before they went to academies then? They're the ones who've shown enough innate talent to there in the first place though. If what you were saying was correct though every kid who went to an academy and worked their socks off and looked after themselves in terms of lifestyle etc. would make the grade, whereas most of them don't because they don't have the natural talent etc. I honestly think HTT has been on the old "sticky-icky" again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 You see HTT, reading that shows all you know is based on little snippets you've read etc. As though the kids Chelsea look at and sign are lacking the basics. As for the rest of your post, fucking hell, I give up. The going for a shit analogy is apt though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 Which academy did Maradona attend? Just so I know. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Laugh all you will fellas, this isn't some crack pot theory. We wouldn't have academies if they didn't think they could turn a kid into a footballer. Every kid they get through the door isn't some finished article you know or blessed with amazing ability. In fact most are very much the same ability wise. And if people want to deny that Martins' co-ordination levels are shite... Who said kids were the finished article before they went to academies then? They're the ones who've shown enough innate talent to there in the first place though. If what you were saying was correct though every kid who went to an academy and worked their socks off and looked after themselves in terms of lifestyle etc. would make the grade, whereas most of them don't because they don't have the natural talent etc. Look, I basically said that if it wasn't for Martins' physical attributes allied to his training under Inter, he would be back home in Nigeria. The College Dropout then responded by saying well if that's the case, Chambers with the right training could be as good as Martins as he's quick, powerful, with the right training. And I said aye, in theory. In short I was saying you don't need to have technique, skills or ability from the off to become a footballer as they can be learned or coached. That's been my whole point all along and I stand by it. Obviously not everyone can become a footballer, but then you don't expect people to take your "anyone" as literal. Anyone was me saying people like Chalmbers who has what Martins has physically. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Well, at least you've backtracked rather than dug deeper. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Liam Liam O Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Which academy did Maradona attend? Just so I know. The "CoachHTT Summer School". Taught him all he knows. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 I was watching my brother play in a school football match 4 or so years ago. There was 1 lad who stood out, he was strong, quick and fairly tall for a 13/4 year old but he wasn't the exception in physicality on the pitch. The defender he was up against was bigger, stronger and could run as fast but this lad was on another planet. He was 2 seconds ahead of the others in every aspect, his first touch, passing and movement was just that level or 2 above the other lads and I don't think he was taught that. I recently discovered that the lad is called Victor Moses and he's recently emerged in the Crystal Palace first team. I don't know how long he had been training with Crystal Palace but all those years back he looked much better than the other lads. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 I thought Martins was signed by Inter from another Italian club at a young age. I don't think they discovered him in Nigeria. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 On the flip side, I'd like to hear of one example of a kid who was shit at football as a kid, was coached properly and ended up as a professional. Because Arsenal et al must be wasting a fortune searching the globe for talent when all they need to do is take a few kids from the local primary schools. I jest of course Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 I thought Martins was signed by Inter from another Italian club at a young age. I don't think they discovered him in Nigeria. Reggiana. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 On the flip side, I'd like to hear of one example of a kid who was s*** at football as a kid, was coached properly and ended up as a professional. Because Arsenal et al must be wasting a fortune searching the globe for talent when all they need to do is take a few kids from the local primary schools. I jest of course I doubt a kid who was shit would get the time and effort spent on him which would be needed for him to end up as a professional, even if it was possible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 On the flip side, I'd like to hear of one example of a kid who was s*** at football as a kid, was coached properly and ended up as a professional. Because Arsenal et al must be wasting a fortune searching the globe for talent when all they need to do is take a few kids from the local primary schools. I jest of course I doubt a kid who was shit would get the time and effort spent on him which would be needed for him to end up as a professional, even if it was possible. No shit Sherlock. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 No s*** Sherlock. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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