WhatTheFunk Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 fuck it....here's what i would love for our starting line up to be come August: .......................Given Torosidis - Beye - Taylor - Enrique .....................Faye/Muntari Bentley - Milner - N'Zogbia ...............Owen - Crouch Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 I think Bentley could be tempted by moves to Villa or Newcastle. It would be difficult to persuade him, but i think it'd be worth a shot. I think those 2 and Everton have a more realistic chance of getting amongst it, despite current standings. exactly Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 We don;'t have a right to win anything, but the day we fail to recognise that we have a huge fanbase bigger than most is the day we are back to the days pre-Halls and Shepherd. You may not like that Dave, but its true. Rubbish, we've always had some of the best attendance figures, even when we were shite we had bigger crowds than most. aye, we sold our best players, brought in 2nd raters [which caused them to want to leave] and you defend it - again. Well done. Go to top of the class. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 The point is Jenas wasn't one of our best players. But we still made good money on him when he went stale/wanted out. I'm assuming that's all he means, not specifically getting players, making them good, then selling them off just for the money. I think it looks precisely that, so its up to him to clarify. I take it you agree that we should be attempting to buy players of the calibre that Liverpool do then ? The original post is also cherry picking anyway, choosing a few players who "failed" proves nothing, paying the going rate is also what the top clubs do. If people really want the club to act 2nd rate, then they will get a 2nd rate club. I meant what Dave said. We have been paying top dollar for second rate players for a long time now. I want us to model our transfer policy more like Arsenal's or even Spurs not Liverpool who have wasted a s***-load of money for unspectacular players. We need to spot good young talent. Once a player reaches a certain status it'll be impossible to sign him when the top 4 target them. I don't agree. Wenger is a genius [but he's made mistakes buying players, he is best at finding them and moulding them and is a one off in that respect] Spurs over the last 10-15 years have not been anywhere near us for the most part. Its only the last few years they have spent big money when they have moved back into the top positions. Which sort of proves my point. I would prefer us to be like Liverpool. At the end of the day, if you compete in the bargain and 2nd rate market, you will end up with a 2nd rate team. History - and not just ours - proves this to be absolutely correct. You should not knock the club for trying to back their managers and complete with the other big clubs. The vast majority of clubs would give their teeth for such ambition, and you fail to understand that every club wants to sign the best young talent. I fear that Manu, Chelsea etc may have something to say about your theory and become a slight obstacle to your easy guide to automatic success. Another fact is that if a top player becomes available, and someone like Everton or Man City offer him a better contract than us, he will sign for the other club. Kids stuff this, sorry to say like. I think its quite sad that people have so much hatred for the old board they are completely unable or unwilling to accept the things that they did correctly. And paying the money to get the players their managers wanted, was without question the right thing to do. Another 18 months of the last board and we'd have been bankrupt. Ashley's already had to sink a shedload of money into the club to get us back on an even footing. We couldn't keep on spending beyond our means, especially when you look at the current economic climate. The government may have nationalised Northern Rock but there's no way they'd have done the same for NUFC! I'm not even going to bother answering this. Its rubbish, and ChezGiven has covered it in detail, being an economist. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 NE5, read the comments on the link I posted on page 5 regarding the attitude of Blackburn fans. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Even the biggest diehard Blackburn fan [all 8,000 of them] would concede they aren't as big a club as clubs like Newcastle Dear NE5, read this article, and then read the comments: http://www.newcastle-online.com/2007/07/02/buying-from-our-premiership-rivals-2007-blackburn-rovers/ why do you think I'm bothered about the opinion of a handful of Blackburn fans ? I've been to Blackburn twice in the 80's and there was more NUFC fans than they were. They boo their ex player who won the title for them almost single handed, idiots that they are. Without Jack Walkers money they would be nothing, because they are a small club, albeit with a good manager at the moment who will move on when the right offer comes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhatTheFunk Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Even the biggest diehard Blackburn fan [all 8,000 of them] would concede they aren't as big a club as clubs like Newcastle Dear NE5, read this article, and then read the comments: http://www.newcastle-online.com/2007/07/02/buying-from-our-premiership-rivals-2007-blackburn-rovers/ why do you think I'm bothered about the opinion of a handful of Blackburn fans ? I've been to Blackburn twice in the 80's and there was more NUFC fans than they were. They boo their ex player who won the title for them almost single handed, idiots that they are. Without Jack Walkers money they would be nothing, because they are a small club, albeit with a good manager at the moment who will move on when the right offer comes ur on a roll today NE5. Im agreeing with every word you say. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzza Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Wow! A decent thread with good arguments. I am also of the opinion that we are very much part of the group of "secondary" teams in the premier league who all claim to be "big" clubs and all of their own support would bet his house that a player would rather move to his "big" club rather than yours... We are all quite similar; rich owners, decent history and managers capable of doing well: Villa, Man city, Everton, newcastle, Tottenham and even Portsmouth TBF. Any player who is worth his salt would find it hard to choose between these clubs at the moment and would much prefer any of the top four. It wouldn't be easy to get bentley here, I'd actually prefer to get some cheaper rejects i.e. Wright Philips Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Even the biggest diehard Blackburn fan [all 8,000 of them] would concede they aren't as big a club as clubs like Newcastle Dear NE5, read this article, and then read the comments: http://www.newcastle-online.com/2007/07/02/buying-from-our-premiership-rivals-2007-blackburn-rovers/ why do you think I'm bothered about the opinion of a handful of Blackburn fans ? Well you say that even the biggest Blackburn fans would admit that NUFC are the more attractive club, and now you are faced with conflicting evidence that contradicts your point, you claim not to be interested in their views. Do you only think people that share your exact same viewpoint are worth listening to? FWIW, I think it would be very difficult to get Bentley, but I think that we should try. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 What makes a club big? Previous success? Fanbase? Current success? I'd be interested in anyone's definition of 'big' because when considering recent history and things like titles/cups won, Blackburn > Newcastle. I'm not saying I believe that to be true, but obviously belief in this case depends on a definition of what 'big' is and the comparative weighting that must be given to factors such as fanbase, titles, revenue, brand loyalty etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowen Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Even the biggest diehard Blackburn fan [all 8,000 of them] would concede they aren't as big a club as clubs like Newcastle Dear NE5, read this article, and then read the comments: http://www.newcastle-online.com/2007/07/02/buying-from-our-premiership-rivals-2007-blackburn-rovers/ why do you think I'm bothered about the opinion of a handful of Blackburn fans ? I've been to Blackburn twice in the 80's and there was more NUFC fans than they were. They boo their ex player who won the title for them almost single handed, idiots that they are. Without Jack Walkers money they would be nothing, because they are a small club, albeit with a good manager at the moment who will move on when the right offer comes Did Blackburn fans really boo Shearer? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Even the biggest diehard Blackburn fan [all 8,000 of them] would concede they aren't as big a club as clubs like Newcastle Dear NE5, read this article, and then read the comments: http://www.newcastle-online.com/2007/07/02/buying-from-our-premiership-rivals-2007-blackburn-rovers/ why do you think I'm bothered about the opinion of a handful of Blackburn fans ? I've been to Blackburn twice in the 80's and there was more NUFC fans than they were. They boo their ex player who won the title for them almost single handed, idiots that they are. Without Jack Walkers money they would be nothing, because they are a small club, albeit with a good manager at the moment who will move on when the right offer comes Did Blackburn fans really boo Shearer? Yeah. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Only just noticed, James? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Sometimes stars aren't what we need. In all seriousness, if a 'star' comes to a club like us, you'd have to wonder why. Not that we're a bad club, but we're not in any European competitions at all, which is generally why they move. The only other reason is money, and we've got enough players playing just for the money at the moment. There's plenty of players out there who wouldn't be classified as stars, but they'd strengthen our team immensely. "Star" ? I just look at quality players. I've no time for this sort of "trophy signing" bollocks, which is nothing other than a daft phrase made up by people who want to slate the old board for anything they can think of. The trophy winning clubs buy these "trophy" players, because its the "trophy" quality players that win the trophies and look no further than Rooney, Tevez, Ronaldo, Ferdinand, Nani, Drogba, Torres etc for proof. These people who would prefer us to sign Johnny averages are an absolute hoot. To get players of the right character, its as Keegan says, you need to lock them in a room and ask them why they want to come. Character evaluation and judgement. I suspect that too much of this has not been done or bad judgement has been applied, rather than this "overspending" lark, which is rubbish because for a club with the 3rd largest stadium in the country and a fanbase that fills it every week, you can take the risks and you MUST take them if you want to overcome the clubs above you who will almost certainly do the same, which is why they are winning the trophies. Why do I have to keep explaining this ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 About his method of 'debate' I mean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Parka Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Step down for Bentley to come here. If he does I''d be very surprised. Next season I reckon we might see something like this: ...............Given............... Beye..Faye..Taylor....Enrique ...............New DM.............. ......Barton............Milner..... .................Owen............... ........New CF....Martins....... Provided we can keep hold of the more important players. New DM I am stumped, can't really think of anyone. New Striker: Someone like Crouch, someone hungry for first team football. If this 4-3-3 is Kev's future plans, I think it could bring great success. Of course, against bigger teams I'd expect a 4-4-1-1 lining up with Milner and Zog on the flanks, Barton and new CM in the middle, and Owen behind a powerful striker. Looking at blackburn, Jason Roberts isn't seeing much first team football, and I could see him being successful in the right set up (a bit old though). I could see us looking at Bullard, Harper (reading), Kitson and Doyle. Looking a bit lower down the league players like: Kightly (wolves) would be worth a look. There are quite a lot of players in Scotland and the Championship with potential. I could see us looking for players here too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 About his method of 'debate' I mean. I tend to ignore the quote pyramids, so that is the first time I've seen such an explicit case of him saying: "Everyone of those fans thinks this. OK, some don't but they don't count as I'm arrogant enough to know better." Drug induced fantasy featuring hallucinations of head in cloud ninety-nine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Blackburn Rovers Titles won: 3 FA Cups: 6 League Cup: 1 Newcastle United Titles won: 4 FA Cups: 6 League Cup: 1 In the past 15 years, Blackburn's got a title and a league cup to show for. We, on the other hand, obviously don't. The reference to Jack Walker's money is irrelevant - they won it, who gives a shit how? History won't put an asterisk next to their title, and history won't be putting asterisks next to the numerous trophies that Chelsea have won in the past few years as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Even the biggest diehard Blackburn fan [all 8,000 of them] would concede they aren't as big a club as clubs like Newcastle Dear NE5, read this article, and then read the comments: http://www.newcastle-online.com/2007/07/02/buying-from-our-premiership-rivals-2007-blackburn-rovers/ why do you think I'm bothered about the opinion of a handful of Blackburn fans ? Well you say that even the biggest Blackburn fans would admit that NUFC are the more attractive club, and now you are faced with conflicting evidence that contradicts your point, you claim not to be interested in their views. Do you only think people that share your exact same viewpoint are worth listening to? FWIW, I think it would be very difficult to get Bentley, but I think that we should try. They don't sound like mature and half intelligent Blackburn fans though. They sound pretty much like the southern mongs who are hosting radio shows, hence their view. The night before the 1999 Cup Final, me and my mate got chatting to a Blackburn fan in Watford [where we were staying]. He wished us all the best [meant it] and said that we as fans deserved to win and was quite aware that we were long overdue real success. As a Blackburn fan he had never expected what Walker had done for them in his wildest dreams and like anyone took it while it was there and enjoyed it while it lasted. Having supported Newcastle when we also lost our best players in Gazza, Beardsley and Waddle, [ie because we were a shitty club run by shit directors like a back street corner shop] I fully understood how he felt when he said how disappointed he had been Shearer moved to a bigger club and the one that he supports [just like Gazza and Beardsley]. Top bloke. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Blackburn Rovers Titles won: 3 FA Cups: 6 League Cup: 1 Newcastle United Titles won: 4 FA Cups: 6 League Cup: 1 In the past 15 years, Blackburn's got a title and a league cup to show for. We, on the other hand, obviously don't. The reference to Jack Walker's money is irrelevant - they won it, who gives a shit how? History won't put an asterisk next to their title, and history won't be putting asterisks next to the numerous trophies that Chelsea have won in the past few years as well. more successful within a specific time equals doesn't equal bigger 2 Cups. But also a relegation. We have been more consistent in terms of league positions. We also lost 2 Cup Finals or we would have had a trophy. Its difficult to say who you blame for losing 2 Cup Finals, or rather it isn't because I know who I think is to blame aside of the fact that we played the Champions twice. Also makes the appointment of Dalglish more understandable, wouldn't you agree ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 In the end of the day, there are two factors that determine who a player will sign for: a) Opportunities for successful career b) Money being offerred The likes of Luque have admitted that coming here wasn't a career move, it was a financial move, and those players signed under the late Shepherd regime didn't have the motivation to show their quality over a season. It is going to be hard to promote reason a) as a reason to join the club right now, while reason b) is very flawed, especially as we have too many like that already. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 About his method of 'debate' I mean. I tend to ignore the quote pyramids, so that is the first time I've seen such an explicit case of him saying: "Everyone of those fans thinks this. OK, some don't but they don't count as I'm arrogant enough to know better." Drug induced fantasy featuring hallucinations of head in cloud ninety-nine. Don;t know what you are referring to here mate - as you missed out the quote pyramid - but if its me, I'm pretty amazed that people can go around complaining about the club underachieving ie qualifying for europe more than everybody but 4 teams - then also complain that the club shouldn't be competing with the clubs above them if they want to catch them. This isn't arrogant. Neither is it making anything up. Its stone cold fact and the only way to do it. Drug induced - in my opinion - is being unable to recognise when you have people attempting it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 What? You've just thrown that in, nobody is saying that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 What? You've just thrown that in, nobody is saying that. As I said Dave, he missed the quote pyramid so I'm not sure. The sentiment is correct though, based on the tone of the thread, isn't it ? If you want to be successful you have to act like the successful clubs. Not rocket science mate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzza Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 If Keegan is to make any "star" signing or preferably "high quality" signings then a centre back and cover for full backs is essential. Again a couple of chelsea rejects wouldn't be too bad i.e. Bridge, ben haim & ferreira... Just keeping the chelsea thing hot, don't suppose they'd be overpriced either as Chelsea have overtaken our mantle of buying big selling cheap!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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