Timing: Our past, the present, our future? by NE5

[macbeth]

30, you cheeky ****!  I'm a regular oil of olay user too so I look about 23.

 

Your backside may look 23 with the use of all that Ulay, rest of you looks far older

[Guest Pugwash]

 

Sunderland 20

 

 

 

 

[Guest The Fox]

The state of the current board compared to pre 92 has little to do with Freddie Shepherd. Its entirely due to Sir JOhn Hall who ousted the previous board. Would Shepherd have spent his that amount of money doing so. Answer NO. We would have drifted along under the old dickensian set up.

A successful Chairman ensures that the club is in  areasoinable financial state and that a Manager or Managers are appointed that bring success to the club and quality performances on the field. Sir JohnHall did this.

Too much avoiding the question on here so I'll ask the same question again.

Has the club maintained or improved the quality of performance on the pitch that was achieved under Sir Jon Hall/KK?

IMO nowhere near and the current squad is about as exciting as one of Freddie's public statements.

[WhatTheFunk]

NE5, the board (or chairman rather) has shown the desire and intention to take the club forwards and upwards, and make it one of the most successful in Europe. Regardless of the past, he's done a good job of fucking things up when it really mattered (spending owt 2003, manner of sacking of SBR, hiring GS, backing GS, Rooneygate, NOTW, this transfer window, hiring GR, etc...). Now, you can have all the desire and intention in the world, but if you're shit at application, then you will be found out, and you will ultimately fail to reach your goal. IMO, these are the grounds that Shepherd should part with the club on. It has nothing to do with the past, when you look at it this way. He's set out to achieve goals, and failed. Simple as.

 

We should applaud Mr. Shepherd, and say thanks for some wonderful memories, but thats all. It's time to move on, as we have come as far (up or down) as we can go under his tenure.

 

you may be right, but believe me a far worse scenario is having a board who have no ambition or courage to compete with the other big clubs. I have tried to point this out - this is not directed at you mind just a general reply within the thread. When you have a board who is like this they can appoint managers until doomsday and if they are good we will lose them and we will never succeed.

 

I don't consider regular european football to be shit application by the way. Until Souness, the previous 3 managers were all appointments that a majority of fans were happy with, quite a lot of fans would have chosen those managers themselves in fact.

 

Don't expect me to back a change to people who may not have ambition or the good of the club at heart, this would be a nightmare scenario and unfortunately you yourself, despite a pretty decent post, also seem to be unaware that is it highly possible - at least that is how I read your comment about "shit application".

 

 

 

What I meant by "shit application" is the following:

 

To run the massive business that is NUFC in the past decade, you need high levels of consistency, professionalism, credibility, and a hell of a lot of good PR. This is where Shepherd falls short.

 

He's been inconsistent for example, when it comes to spending (2003/GS), treatment of SBR (you don't sack SBR/sacked him)

He's been unprofessional at the wrong times

He's put his creditibility in question with comments about smaller clubs, Rooney, top 8 jobs in the world etc..

Do I really need to comment about bad PR?

 

He may be an ambitious fish, with the club's interest at heart, but he's too small a fish for the vast ocean that is running a football business these days.

 

I'm not saying he's never done anything right. It's just that he's gone and fucked things up at the wrong times, when it really mattered.

[Guest elbee909]

 

Only 4 clubs have qualified for europe more than us in the last decade, the same 4 clubs are the only ones with a higher average league position.

 

What is so difficult in interpreting that 

 

Already dealt with that before.  When you're faced with rebuttals to your arguments you just retreat back into your shell.  No fun.

[Colos Short and Curlies]

So this average league position is a bit like the UEFA rankings where we are in the top 10 right?

 

I think I have a good compromise:

 

When we are in the prsence of other clubs fans (particuarly Spuds) we use NE5s methods.

amongst ourselves we agree that Macbeth/Gemmil or whoevers method is more accurate?

 

[Delima]

So this average league position is a bit like the UEFA rankings where we are in the top 10 right?

 

I think I have a good compromise:

 

When we are in the prsence of other clubs fans (particuarly Spuds) we use NE5s methods.

amongst ourselves we agree that Macbeth/Gemmil or whoevers method is more accurate?

 

 

Good suggestion. But then we will once more justify our status as joke of the country.

[NE5]

 

Only 4 clubs have qualified for europe more than us in the last decade, the same 4 clubs are the only ones with a higher average league position.

 

What is so difficult in interpreting that 

 

Already dealt with that before.  When you're faced with rebuttals to your arguments you just retreat back into your shell.  No fun.

 

yes, you dealt with it. You were unable to name any more than 4.

 

 

[NE5]

The state of the current board compared to pre 92 has little to do with Freddie Shepherd. Its entirely due to Sir JOhn Hall who ousted the previous board. Would Shepherd have spent his that amount of money doing so. Answer NO. We would have drifted along under the old dickensian set up.

A successful Chairman ensures that the club is in  areasoinable financial state and that a Manager or Managers are appointed that bring success to the club and quality performances on the field. Sir JohnHall did this.

Too much avoiding the question on here so I'll ask the same question again.

Has the club maintained or improved the quality of performance on the pitch that was achieved under Sir Jon Hall/KK?

IMO nowhere near and the current squad is about as exciting as one of Freddie's public statements.

 

Basically, I think he would have showed ambition and hauled the club up if he had took over the setup from McKeag.

 

And also, the club has produced plenty of quality performances on the field, unless you think only 4 clubs in the country have put in quality performances during the last decade.

 

You can't argue with results. And you can't argue with qualifying for europe and beating top teams especially in the CL. Only those who don't witness it seem to be unaware of it.

 

 

[Guest elbee909]

 

Only 4 clubs have qualified for europe more than us in the last decade, the same 4 clubs are the only ones with a higher average league position.

 

What is so difficult in interpreting that 

 

Already dealt with that before.  When you're faced with rebuttals to your arguments you just retreat back into your shell.  No fun.

 

yes, you dealt with it. You were unable to name any more than 4.

 

 

Yes, yes.  You're always correct, I'm obviously wrong, everything is peachy.

[NE5]

NE5, the board (or chairman rather) has shown the desire and intention to take the club forwards and upwards, and make it one of the most successful in Europe. Regardless of the past, he's done a good job of fucking things up when it really mattered (spending owt 2003, manner of sacking of SBR, hiring GS, backing GS, Rooneygate, NOTW, this transfer window, hiring GR, etc...). Now, you can have all the desire and intention in the world, but if you're shit at application, then you will be found out, and you will ultimately fail to reach your goal. IMO, these are the grounds that Shepherd should part with the club on. It has nothing to do with the past, when you look at it this way. He's set out to achieve goals, and failed. Simple as.

 

We should applaud Mr. Shepherd, and say thanks for some wonderful memories, but thats all. It's time to move on, as we have come as far (up or down) as we can go under his tenure.

 

you may be right, but believe me a far worse scenario is having a board who have no ambition or courage to compete with the other big clubs. I have tried to point this out - this is not directed at you mind just a general reply within the thread. When you have a board who is like this they can appoint managers until doomsday and if they are good we will lose them and we will never succeed.

 

I don't consider regular european football to be shit application by the way. Until Souness, the previous 3 managers were all appointments that a majority of fans were happy with, quite a lot of fans would have chosen those managers themselves in fact.

 

Don't expect me to back a change to people who may not have ambition or the good of the club at heart, this would be a nightmare scenario and unfortunately you yourself, despite a pretty decent post, also seem to be unaware that is it highly possible - at least that is how I read your comment about "shit application".

 

 

 

What I meant by "shit application" is the following:

 

To run the massive business that is NUFC in the past decade, you need high levels of consistency, professionalism, credibility, and a hell of a lot of good PR. This is where Shepherd falls short.

 

He's been inconsistent for example, when it comes to spending (2003/GS), treatment of SBR (you don't sack SBR/sacked him)

He's been unprofessional at the wrong times

He's put his creditibility in question with comments about smaller clubs, Rooney, top 8 jobs in the world etc..

Do I really need to comment about bad PR?

 

He may be an ambitious fish, with the club's interest at heart, but he's too small a fish for the vast ocean that is running a football business these days.

 

I'm not saying he's never done anything right. It's just that he's gone and fucked things up at the wrong times, when it really mattered.

 

I can assure you now that an ambitious board/chairman who run the club and put the money up for the manager but makes an odd daft statement in public is a damn sight better than a gentleman who runs the club like a modern scrooge, and lacks the vision and enterprise to tap the support of a football club. You don't need to look around at our own past, look around at other big city clubs that we have overtaken and have attracted nothing like our results, european qualifications and support.

 

The sad thing is - and again I don't mean you - is that there are people out there who STILL don't understand that we could easily, very easily, replace the current board with one like this.

 

 

[OzzieMandias]

Basically, I think he would have showed ambition and hauled the club up if he had took over the setup from McKeag.

 

 

A non-argument. He didn't take over the setup from McKeag.

[NE5]

 

Only 4 clubs have qualified for europe more than us in the last decade, the same 4 clubs are the only ones with a higher average league position.

 

What is so difficult in interpreting that 

 

Already dealt with that before.  When you're faced with rebuttals to your arguments you just retreat back into your shell.  No fun.

 

yes, you dealt with it. You were unable to name any more than 4.

 

 

Yes, yes.  You're always correct, I'm obviously wrong, everything is peachy.

 

Well, go ahead and name them. Take your time.

 

 

[NE5]

Basically, I think he would have showed ambition and hauled the club up if he had took over the setup from McKeag.

 

 

A non-argument. He didn't take over the setup from McKeag.

 

eerrrrr....it wasn't me who approached the hypothetical argument in the first place.

 

Are you still backing your man Souness ? 7th request.

 

Or are you going to behave in a completely immature and stupid fashion like you did before.

 

 

[WhatTheFunk]

NE5, the board (or chairman rather) has shown the desire and intention to take the club forwards and upwards, and make it one of the most successful in Europe. Regardless of the past, he's done a good job of fucking things up when it really mattered (spending owt 2003, manner of sacking of SBR, hiring GS, backing GS, Rooneygate, NOTW, this transfer window, hiring GR, etc...). Now, you can have all the desire and intention in the world, but if you're shit at application, then you will be found out, and you will ultimately fail to reach your goal. IMO, these are the grounds that Shepherd should part with the club on. It has nothing to do with the past, when you look at it this way. He's set out to achieve goals, and failed. Simple as.

 

We should applaud Mr. Shepherd, and say thanks for some wonderful memories, but thats all. It's time to move on, as we have come as far (up or down) as we can go under his tenure.

 

you may be right, but believe me a far worse scenario is having a board who have no ambition or courage to compete with the other big clubs. I have tried to point this out - this is not directed at you mind just a general reply within the thread. When you have a board who is like this they can appoint managers until doomsday and if they are good we will lose them and we will never succeed.

 

I don't consider regular european football to be shit application by the way. Until Souness, the previous 3 managers were all appointments that a majority of fans were happy with, quite a lot of fans would have chosen those managers themselves in fact.

 

Don't expect me to back a change to people who may not have ambition or the good of the club at heart, this would be a nightmare scenario and unfortunately you yourself, despite a pretty decent post, also seem to be unaware that is it highly possible - at least that is how I read your comment about "shit application".

 

 

 

What I meant by "shit application" is the following:

 

To run the massive business that is NUFC in the past decade, you need high levels of consistency, professionalism, credibility, and a hell of a lot of good PR. This is where Shepherd falls short.

 

He's been inconsistent for example, when it comes to spending (2003/GS), treatment of SBR (you don't sack SBR/sacked him)

He's been unprofessional at the wrong times

He's put his creditibility in question with comments about smaller clubs, Rooney, top 8 jobs in the world etc..

Do I really need to comment about bad PR?

 

He may be an ambitious fish, with the club's interest at heart, but he's too small a fish for the vast ocean that is running a football business these days.

 

I'm not saying he's never done anything right. It's just that he's gone and fucked things up at the wrong times, when it really mattered.

 

I can assure you now that an ambitious board/chairman who run the club and put the money up for the manager but makes an odd daft statement in public is a damn sight better than a gentleman who runs the club like a modern scrooge, and lacks the vision and enterprise to tap the support of a football club. You don't need to look around at our own past, look around at other big city clubs that we have overtaken and have attracted nothing like our results, european qualifications and support.

 

The sad thing is - and again I don't mean you - is that there are people out there who STILL don't understand that we could easily, very easily, replace the current board with one like this.

 

 

 

I very much agree with you in that replacing the current chairman with another, could end up being disastrous for us, and could have the total opposite effect than that which we all hope for. However, look at it this way...Roeder let's say is a decent manager, who will guarantee us a top 8 finish every year, with the odd fantastic team performance and european qualification every now and then. It is a damn sight better than where we were headed under Souness. But do we stick with Roeder simply because we might get a worse manager?

 

The club needs a change. Like someone said earlier, the Hall/Shepherd era ended the day Shearer retired. They based all of their plans on what was to come after signing him. We've failed to use the best damn English centreforward in modern times (and a Geordie at that!) as a conduit to the success we've been starved of, and have waited for all those years. We came close, but not close enough. We need a new plan and a new direction, and just hope that things will get even better.

[OzzieMandias]

However, look at it this way...Roeder let's say is a decent manager, who will guarantee us a top 8 finish every year, with the odd fantastic team performance and european qualification every now and then.

 

Even that much is doubtful. But you seem correct in implying that some people are happy with the level of abject mediocrity we have "achieved" under Fat Fred.

 

[NE5]

NE5, the board (or chairman rather) has shown the desire and intention to take the club forwards and upwards, and make it one of the most successful in Europe. Regardless of the past, he's done a good job of fucking things up when it really mattered (spending owt 2003, manner of sacking of SBR, hiring GS, backing GS, Rooneygate, NOTW, this transfer window, hiring GR, etc...). Now, you can have all the desire and intention in the world, but if you're shit at application, then you will be found out, and you will ultimately fail to reach your goal. IMO, these are the grounds that Shepherd should part with the club on. It has nothing to do with the past, when you look at it this way. He's set out to achieve goals, and failed. Simple as.

 

We should applaud Mr. Shepherd, and say thanks for some wonderful memories, but thats all. It's time to move on, as we have come as far (up or down) as we can go under his tenure.

 

you may be right, but believe me a far worse scenario is having a board who have no ambition or courage to compete with the other big clubs. I have tried to point this out - this is not directed at you mind just a general reply within the thread. When you have a board who is like this they can appoint managers until doomsday and if they are good we will lose them and we will never succeed.

 

I don't consider regular european football to be shit application by the way. Until Souness, the previous 3 managers were all appointments that a majority of fans were happy with, quite a lot of fans would have chosen those managers themselves in fact.

 

Don't expect me to back a change to people who may not have ambition or the good of the club at heart, this would be a nightmare scenario and unfortunately you yourself, despite a pretty decent post, also seem to be unaware that is it highly possible - at least that is how I read your comment about "shit application".

 

 

 

What I meant by "shit application" is the following:

 

To run the massive business that is NUFC in the past decade, you need high levels of consistency, professionalism, credibility, and a hell of a lot of good PR. This is where Shepherd falls short.

 

He's been inconsistent for example, when it comes to spending (2003/GS), treatment of SBR (you don't sack SBR/sacked him)

He's been unprofessional at the wrong times

He's put his creditibility in question with comments about smaller clubs, Rooney, top 8 jobs in the world etc..

Do I really need to comment about bad PR?

 

He may be an ambitious fish, with the club's interest at heart, but he's too small a fish for the vast ocean that is running a football business these days.

 

I'm not saying he's never done anything right. It's just that he's gone and fucked things up at the wrong times, when it really mattered.

 

I can assure you now that an ambitious board/chairman who run the club and put the money up for the manager but makes an odd daft statement in public is a damn sight better than a gentleman who runs the club like a modern scrooge, and lacks the vision and enterprise to tap the support of a football club. You don't need to look around at our own past, look around at other big city clubs that we have overtaken and have attracted nothing like our results, european qualifications and support.

 

The sad thing is - and again I don't mean you - is that there are people out there who STILL don't understand that we could easily, very easily, replace the current board with one like this.

 

 

 

I very much agree with you in that replacing the current chairman with another, could end up being disastrous for us, and could have the total opposite effect than that which we all hope for. However, look at it this way...Roeder let's say is a decent manager, who will guarantee us a top 8 finish every year, with the odd fantastic team performance and european qualification every now and then. It is a damn sight better than where we were headed under Souness. But do we stick with Roeder simply because we might get a worse manager?

 

The club needs a change. Like someone said earlier, the Hall/Shepherd era ended the day Shearer retired. They based all of their plans on what was to come after signing him. We've failed to use the best damn English centreforward in modern times (and a Geordie at that!) as a conduit to the success we've been starved of, and have waited for all those years. We came close, but not close enough. We need a new plan and a new direction, and just hope that things will get even better.

 

I am aware that the club is treading water and at a crossroads. Maybe they have taken us as far as the can, if so there is no shame in that, it would be sad if many people don't appreciate how far we have came but like anyone else I want us to have the best club in the world. As when we lost Keegan - who had done well and we thought we had it cracked and thought it would be a bit of a breeze to replace him with someone "tactical" and move that bit further forwards... but he was replaced by people not so good and now we are in a position a decade later where we have not matched it. This is a scenario that could easily be repeated with another board.

 

If we need new ideas, lets hope they are the right ones, but moving upwards from regular european qualifyers is not simple and it would be far easier to go the other way.

 

 

[Guest elbee909]

 

Only 4 clubs have qualified for europe more than us in the last decade, the same 4 clubs are the only ones with a higher average league position.

 

What is so difficult in interpreting that 

 

Already dealt with that before.  When you're faced with rebuttals to your arguments you just retreat back into your shell.  No fun.

 

yes, you dealt with it. You were unable to name any more than 4.

 

 

Yes, yes.  You're always correct, I'm obviously wrong, everything is peachy.

 

Well, go ahead and name them. Take your time.

 

 

No, you misunderstand.  Your stats there are meaningless when it comes to the argument that NUFC have declined.

 

You know, you'd think with the better facilities, better stadium and all that stirling stuff, we'd have more chance of doing well than ever before.  Strange that we're doing less well in terms of league finishes now, despite having a bigger stadium and better training facilities.  I wonder why this could be?  All that European experience and we seemingly have learnt rather little.

 

I'm assuming that according to your stats, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea and Man Utd are those above us.  Well, Liverpool got rid of their Roy Evans, now we have ours.  Optimistic?

 

 

[NE5]

However, look at it this way...Roeder let's say is a decent manager, who will guarantee us a top 8 finish every year, with the odd fantastic team performance and european qualification every now and then.

 

Even that much is doubtful. But you seem correct in implying that some people are happy with the level of abject mediocrity we have "achieved" under Fat Fred.

 

 

But you said we should back your man Souness ?

 

Do you still back him. 8th request. Why are you forgetting, isn't your wallpaper a reminder ?

 

 

 

[Guest Gemmill]

However, look at it this way...Roeder let's say is a decent manager, who will guarantee us a top 8 finish every year, with the odd fantastic team performance and european qualification every now and then.

 

Even that much is doubtful. But you seem correct in implying that some people are happy with the level of abject mediocrity we have "achieved" under Fat Fred.

 

 

But you said we should back your man Souness ?

 

Do you still back him. 8th request. Why are you forgetting, isn't your wallpaper a reminder ?

 

 

 

 

Who appointed and backed Souness?  This is another of those things you keep bringing up even though people have repeatedly used it to slap you in the face when they point out that it was Shepherd that's to blame for Souness. 

[macbeth]

 

I can assure you now that an ambitious board/chairman who run the club and put the money up for the manager but makes an odd daft statement in public is a damn sight better than a gentleman who runs the club like a modern scrooge, and lacks the vision and enterprise to tap the support of a football club.

 

Be careful with your wording. You make it sound as though the board are actually putting into the club. This is not the case and has not been the case since 1997.

 

The current membership of the board have taken out £33m from the club, while not putting a penny in. McKeag for all his faults, and their were many, did not bleed the club dry of money the way the Halls and Shepherds have done.

 

McKeag couldn't run a football club successfully, no one at all is disputing that. He took the club downwards through total incompetence. Hall and Shepherd are doing it be robbing the club of the money the fans put in. Due to their inability to manage the club's finances they are now borrowing money in the name of the club,  to give to themselves under the guise of "dividends". Shame on them.

 

To support this practice, as you regularly do, shows you have more love of H&S than you do for your club. Shame on you.

 

 

 

[NE5]

 

Only 4 clubs have qualified for europe more than us in the last decade, the same 4 clubs are the only ones with a higher average league position.

 

What is so difficult in interpreting that 

 

Already dealt with that before.  When you're faced with rebuttals to your arguments you just retreat back into your shell.  No fun.

 

yes, you dealt with it. You were unable to name any more than 4.

 

 

Yes, yes.  You're always correct, I'm obviously wrong, everything is peachy.

 

Well, go ahead and name them. Take your time.

 

 

No, you misunderstand.  Your stats there are meaningless when it comes to the argument that NUFC have declined.

 

You know, you'd think with the better facilities, better stadium and all that stirling stuff, we'd have more chance of doing well than ever before.  Strange that we're doing less well in terms of league finishes now, despite having a bigger stadium and better training facilities.  I wonder why this could be?  All that European experience and we seemingly have learnt rather little.

 

I'm assuming that according to your stats, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea and Man Utd are those above us.  Well, Liverpool got rid of their Roy Evans, now we have ours.  Optimistic?

 

 

It's fairly obvious they are the only 4 clubs above us. Well done.

 

Are you saying that the structure and setup of the club is improved hugely so giving club a platform to move forward ? Do you not call that good planning ? Or do you call it going backwards ? If you are saying that the club hasn't matched Keegan in the managerial stakes, but made progress in those areas then I will agree. All you have to do now is realise that nobody has a right to appoint the best managers and win one of only 2 major domestic trophies, and accept qualifying for europe for what it is. Which is - being one of the countries top clubs.

 

If you fail to do that, you should tell us who your magical man is that will guarantee being the equal of those who run the 4 clubs you mention, as we have a divine right to expect it and the current board being so shit, will of course be an easy task.

 

Don't bother looking at all the big city clubs that used to be above us for decades though, as they are obviously run by inferior people otherwise such a thing could not happen

 

 

[NE5]

 

I can assure you now that an ambitious board/chairman who run the club and put the money up for the manager but makes an odd daft statement in public is a damn sight better than a gentleman who runs the club like a modern scrooge, and lacks the vision and enterprise to tap the support of a football club.

 

Be careful with your wording. You make it sound as though the board are actually putting into the club. This is not the case and has not been the case since 1997.

 

The current membership of the board have taken out £33m from the club, while not putting a penny in. McKeag for all his faults, and their were many, did not bleed the club dry of money the way the Halls and Shepherds have done.

 

McKeag couldn't run a football club successfully, no one at all is disputing that. He took the club downwards through total incompetence. Hall and Shepherd are doing it be robbing the club of the money the fans put in. Due to their inability to manage the club's finances they are now borrowing money in the name of the club,  to give to themselves under the guise of "dividends". Shame on them.

 

To support this practice, as you regularly do, shows you have more love of H&S than you do for your club. Shame on you.

 

 

 

I'm not really bothered about wording things correctly, this is not a courtroom nor do I expect to receive a summons...

 

Have you contacted your man Crozier yet  :roll:

[Guest Gemmill]

 

Only 4 clubs have qualified for europe more than us in the last decade, the same 4 clubs are the only ones with a higher average league position.

 

What is so difficult in interpreting that 

 

Already dealt with that before.  When you're faced with rebuttals to your arguments you just retreat back into your shell.  No fun.

 

yes, you dealt with it. You were unable to name any more than 4.

 

 

Yes, yes.  You're always correct, I'm obviously wrong, everything is peachy.

 

Well, go ahead and name them. Take your time.

 

 

No, you misunderstand.  Your stats there are meaningless when it comes to the argument that NUFC have declined.

 

You know, you'd think with the better facilities, better stadium and all that stirling stuff, we'd have more chance of doing well than ever before.  Strange that we're doing less well in terms of league finishes now, despite having a bigger stadium and better training facilities.  I wonder why this could be?  All that European experience and we seemingly have learnt rather little.

 

I'm assuming that according to your stats, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea and Man Utd are those above us.  Well, Liverpool got rid of their Roy Evans, now we have ours.  Optimistic?

 

 

It's fairly obvious they are the only 4 clubs above us. Well done.

 

 

7.  On average.  Stop misinterpreting the figures.  On average, during Shepherd's time as Chairman, you would find SEVEN clubs finishing above us.  That there are only 4 that consistently do with the remaining 3 comprising a variety of different teams is irrelevant.  We still finish 8th on average, not 4th.

[NE5]

However, look at it this way...Roeder let's say is a decent manager, who will guarantee us a top 8 finish every year, with the odd fantastic team performance and european qualification every now and then.

 

Even that much is doubtful. But you seem correct in implying that some people are happy with the level of abject mediocrity we have "achieved" under Fat Fred.

 

 

But you said we should back your man Souness ?

 

Do you still back him. 8th request. Why are you forgetting, isn't your wallpaper a reminder ?

 

 

 

 

Who appointed and backed Souness?  This is another of those things you keep bringing up even though people have repeatedly used it to slap you in the face when they point out that it was Shepherd that's to blame for Souness. 

 

and show me where I haven't said I don't accept this to be the case.....after all, I told you that Souness was a scottish fuckpig that would ruin the club, but you disagreed, which shows 2 things.

 

1. Your judgement is shite, which you prove is so by the day

2. You might be Shepherd yourself, as you are one of the few people who agreed with him.