NUFC want to offer Owen new deal

[Optimistic Nut]

If Owen was to leave, I don't think there'll be another club on the face of the Earth that'll offer him close to £100k/week.

 

On the other hand, if Owen was to leave, we'd not be able to sign an equal or better striker whether it be on £10k or £110k a week. I think Owen's going to have his best season since 2000-1 next year, based on the fact I'm confident Keegan will continue to get the best out of him, and the way Owen has performed the last 4 matches in particular.

[merlin]

As with any job, your salary is determined by what sort of competition there is for your services. In Owen's case, we're paying him Big 4 wages, but the Big 4 don't want him.

 

It's a team game, and if players see that someone is being overpaid, then long-term you could have a problem.

 

The difference is that the 'Big 4' don't NEED him - they can all sign top strikers from elsewhere - NUFC CAN'T.

 

Its time for people to get a reality check about the club's position and standing in the game - we have improved but we are still a bottom-half club and that is how top young players will see us - esp ones from abroad.

[Taylor Swift]

Or you could say "Basically Michael you have done pretty much fuck all since you arrived, we have stood by you and paid you a huge wage now its time to return the favour and earn a wage which fits your contribution to the team".

 

Funny thing is a few have said "We are minted now, just offer him what he wants" then moan that a replacement would cost a transfer fee and wages. If we are in this fantasy position where we don't give a shit about money why not buy a striker who will more than likely contribute more?

 

I'm of this view here. Good post, Jon.

[Cronky]

On reflection, the thing that really bothers me about the Owen situation is the way his reputation is greater than his ability. He's still a good player, but not 'world class'. It feels like a repeat of Shearer's last 2 or 3 seasons, where he seemed to have an undroppable status and team selection and long term planning seemed to be fitting in around him rather than the other way round.

 

It's tricky, because he would need replacing, but what we'd be looking for is someone to fulfil his current role. I don't think his future now lies as an out and out striker.

[Guest Pie]

I cant see him signing it tbh. Wouldn't want us to be offering the same terms as he is currently on anyway.

Isn't that going to lead to the Stan Cummins situation? Or doesn't that exist now? I mean offer them less money and they leave on a free. Know it's an old case but not sure if it still applies.

[madras]

I cant see him signing it tbh. Wouldn't want us to be offering the same terms as he is currently on anyway.

Isn't that going to lead to the Stan Cummins situation? Or doesn't that exist now? I mean offer them less money and they leave on a free. Know it's an old case but not sure if it still applies.

back then players could only leave on afree under those circumstances when there contract had expired. the way it was when the contract had ran out,if they'd been offered an improved contract a transfer fee was still needed even when the contract had finished.

 

 

[Optimistic Nut]

Or you could say "Basically Michael you have done pretty much f*** all since you arrived, we have stood by you and paid you a huge wage now its time to return the favour and earn a wage which fits your contribution to the team".

 

Funny thing is a few have said "We are minted now, just offer him what he wants" then moan that a replacement would cost a transfer fee and wages. If we are in this fantasy position where we don't give a s*** about money why not buy a striker who will more than likely contribute more?

 

I'm of this view here. Good post, Jon.

 

On the other hand though, he's had his problems and seems over them to me, so we'd be the fools for saying "Here's £50k, earn it", when someone like City offer him the full whack and he gets them 20 goals a season.

[Guest SB]

If Owen was to leave, I don't think there'll be another club on the face of the Earth that'll offer him close to £100k/week.

 

If his contract runs out and is available for free, I'm sure there'll be teams to pay this wage. Even more if he completes next season without injury. And that's not good for NUFC. So, even if were to sell him, first we need to make sure he sings a new deal.

 

But I'd say selling him is just silly.

[Guest rebel_yell12]

On reflection, the thing that really bothers me about the Owen situation is the way his reputation is greater than his ability. He's still a good player, but not 'world class'. It feels like a repeat of Shearer's last 2 or 3 seasons, where he seemed to have an undroppable status and team selection and long term planning seemed to be fitting in around him rather than the other way round.

 

It's tricky, because he would need replacing, but what we'd be looking for is someone to fulfil his current role. I don't think his future now lies as an out and out striker.

 

Shearer, in his last 2-3 seasons, was approximately 33 years old.  Owen is 28 and a few months.  Shearer never scored 40 goals for his country before he turned 28 either -- and that's with 2 years all but out entirely with serious injuries.  Owen is still England's best option up front -- for me, that's "world class" since he's of international class (some people, I know, define world class as best XI in the world...a VERY exclusive club) for a country that is still a relatively top-ranked international squad. 

 

Owen IS undroppable right now.  Who would play in his position?  There's no one.  Hell, with the current squad, Viduka, Martins, Barton, Butt, Harper, Beye & Enrique are all undroppable. 

 

And you've not addressed my earlier point -- if you cut Owen's wages, it's going to be known just as his current wages are known.  It's going to be a serious image problem for Newcastle.  Forget whether you think he's been overpaid, it's ALREADY happened and can't be fixed.  You have to deal with the very real consequences of what message it sends to players, currently at the club and prospective, if you cut the top scorer, best player, AND club captain's wages. 

 

The options at this point are SELL, re-sign at the SAME PAY, or slightly increase.  That's it. 

[Fatwax]

Definitely not having a go, but to those saying that he needs to earn the money currently invested in him.. I can't really think of a situation where he was to blame. He can't help dangerous injuries, nor can he be at fault for being placed in a team that isn't functioning and not providing him with service.

 

Over the last few weeks Keegan has shown what Owen is capable of if used in a position that works for him and the team. I don't understand how people are still writing the man off when his goals this season have pulled us out of trouble.

 

But then again, I don't see Mort as a man to throw money and wages about. If Owen did get an increase I doubt it'd be ridiculous. The man's a lawyer after all. 

[Guest justin99.]

I'm not sure what issue about owen's wages are. Mike Ashley can pay him what ever he wants.

 

Owen would definately bring in a whole lot more money than he's being paid though.

[Dr Venkman]

I'm not sure what issue about owen's wages are. Mike Ashley can pay him what ever he wants.

 

Owen would definately bring in a whole lot more money than he's being paid though.

 

ridiculous isnt it, people just need to remove the bug from their arses, he's a class act, end of

[Guest Knightrider]

I'd rather we cut our loses myself but I trust Keegan and if he wants to keep the player, Owen himself wants to stay, and the club can afford to renew his contract then I'm happy for the club to retain the services of our number 10 and would support such a decision 100% despite my misgivings about Owen, and that applies to all the players really and any major decisions on the horizon that the club and manager sees fit to keep on, peddle or take.

[afar]

I think this long debate is kind of futile. I have no doubt KK has told Mort to do all he can to resign Owen.

 

The real question is will Owen want to stay rather than do we want him, I'm not sure.

[Guest Knightrider]

I think this long debate is kind of futile. I have no doubt KK has told Mort to do all he can to resign Owen.

 

The real question is will Owen want to stay rather than do we want him, I'm not sure.

 

For me, Owen's primary remaining goal in his career that is tangible, is Sir Bobby Charlton's goalscoring record. To get back into that England team and to have any chance of breaking it, he has to play every week and do what he does best, score goals and lots of them. Well, he'll get games every week at Newcastle providing he's on form, fit and KK wants him, which I think he does, and if we keep playing like we are, he'll also score a lot of goals. He'll stay because it's his best route back into the England set up on a permanent basis as Capello cannot ignore a prolific striker, a striker who despite his injuries and form, is still England's best marksman. Surely? I think he'll want to stay anyway.

[Taylor Swift]

Owen's only good in the 4-3-3, and actually, that's not even conclusive considering we've only played that formation for 4 games at the tail end of a season. Not trying to demean our performances so far but we've played two not-so-good teams at home and a Tottenham team playing quite a few players out of position. Hardly signs that we can challenge for the top 6/8 next season. But anyway, my point is that Owen does not deserve to be paid £100k/week. He's not our best player, not the most important player in our current formation and I think is easily replaceable with someone who'll be more versatile and thus more valuable on the whole. Just consider that if Owen plays, we have to play with a 4-3-3 or else his usefulness is reduced to the sum total of fuck all. Is that the kind of trait that a so-called 'best' player should have? Should we be locked into someone who's only effective in one position and one formation? Is that someone really worth paying £100k/week to? Bear in mind that players like Rooney, Ronaldo and Fabregas reportedly earns less or similar to this. And of course, his atrocious injury record hasn't even been mentioned. Throughout his entire career, he has picked up little niggling injuries, and has yet to score 20 league goals in a season EVER. There's no evidence to support the claim that he's 'over' it.

 

Frankly, I'd rather we sell him in the summer because his value might be at the highest it'll ever be right now, someone will be willing to pay money for his so-called 'lethal' finishing, and at least KK won't have to be locked into playing one formation all season because our captain is shit in every other one.

[Guest diddimz]

I cant understand people saying sell him, theres no one in his class that we could realisticly sign, what other strikers with as much talent as he could we get

[Mowen]

Owen's only good in the 4-3-3, and actually, that's not even conclusive considering we've only played that formation for 4 games at the tail end of a season. Not trying to demean our performances so far but we've played two not-so-good teams at home and a Tottenham team playing quite a few players out of position. Hardly signs that we can challenge for the top 6/8 next season. But anyway, my point is that Owen does not deserve to be paid £100k/week. He's not our best player, not the most important player in our current formation and I think is easily replaceable with someone who'll be more versatile and thus more valuable on the whole. Just consider that if Owen plays, we have to play with a 4-3-3 or else his usefulness is reduced to the sum total of fuck all. Is that the kind of trait that a so-called 'best' player should have? Should we be locked into someone who's only effective in one position and one formation? Is that someone really worth paying £100k/week to? Bear in mind that players like Rooney, Ronaldo and Fabregas reportedly earns less or similar to this. And of course, his atrocious injury record hasn't even been mentioned. Throughout his entire career, he has picked up little niggling injuries, and has yet to score 20 league goals in a season EVER. There's no evidence to support the claim that he's 'over' it.

 

Frankly, I'd rather we sell him in the summer because his value might be at the highest it'll ever be right now, someone will be willing to pay money for his so-called 'lethal' finishing, and at least KK won't have to be locked into playing one formation all season because our captain is shit in every other one.

 

I disagree with that bolded part massively. I think Owen, whilst not a brilliant player, is good enough to adapt to playing well in a number of formations. He has only very recently started playing in 'our' 443 which, as far as I can tell, is a formation he's never played in before. He's adapted to it in 4 games, and has played very well. Why couldn't he play well in another formation?

 

Given that the rest of you post seems to be based on the premise of the first sentance I find it hard to agree with much of it, except what he is paid - which almost isn't relevant imo. The benefits of getting Owen on a long term contract (persuading others to re-sign, encouraging new signings with a big name, etc.) pretty much counteract the fact he'll be earning more than he's worth afaic.

[Offshore]

Owen's only good in the 4-3-3, and actually, that's not even conclusive considering we've only played that formation for 4 games at the tail end of a season. Not trying to demean our performances so far but we've played two not-so-good teams at home and a Tottenham team playing quite a few players out of position. Hardly signs that we can challenge for the top 6/8 next season. But anyway, my point is that Owen does not deserve to be paid £100k/week. He's not our best player, not the most important player in our current formation and I think is easily replaceable with someone who'll be more versatile and thus more valuable on the whole. Just consider that if Owen plays, we have to play with a 4-3-3 or else his usefulness is reduced to the sum total of f*** all. Is that the kind of trait that a so-called 'best' player should have? Should we be locked into someone who's only effective in one position and one formation? Is that someone really worth paying £100k/week to? Bear in mind that players like Rooney, Ronaldo and Fabregas reportedly earns less or similar to this. And of course, his atrocious injury record hasn't even been mentioned. Throughout his entire career, he has picked up little niggling injuries, and has yet to score 20 league goals in a season EVER. There's no evidence to support the claim that he's 'over' it.

 

Frankly, I'd rather we sell him in the summer because his value might be at the highest it'll ever be right now, someone will be willing to pay money for his so-called 'lethal' finishing, and at least KK won't have to be locked into playing one formation all season because our captain is s*** in every other one.

 

Nonsense.

 

I presume you're only basing this on the last 4 games as if its some sort of KK/MO great moment of clarity (as recovering alcoholics may say) that he's playing a deeper role in a front three so can't play any other way. He's played and excelled in all sorts of formations for his previous clubs and England as he's given the chances to score. He's a striker, and a quality one at that and its only been these last few games that we've started to look like a footballing team again that actually creates chances to win the game instead of setting out not to lose first.

 

As was said earlier in this thread, he 'IS' our best player, he 'IS' our major draw and he 'IS' at last doing the business on the field. To sell him just because we could is a backwards step, one we would end up paying for alot more in the end than we'd get for him.

 

 

 

note to self.....type faster.

[Guest rebel_yell12]

Owen's only good in the 4-3-3, and actually, that's not even conclusive considering we've only played that formation for 4 games at the tail end of a season. Not trying to demean our performances so far but we've played two not-so-good teams at home and a Tottenham team playing quite a few players out of position. Hardly signs that we can challenge for the top 6/8 next season. But anyway, my point is that Owen does not deserve to be paid £100k/week. He's not our best player, not the most important player in our current formation and I think is easily replaceable with someone who'll be more versatile and thus more valuable on the whole. Just consider that if Owen plays, we have to play with a 4-3-3 or else his usefulness is reduced to the sum total of f*** all. Is that the kind of trait that a so-called 'best' player should have? Should we be locked into someone who's only effective in one position and one formation? Is that someone really worth paying £100k/week to? Bear in mind that players like Rooney, Ronaldo and Fabregas reportedly earns less or similar to this. And of course, his atrocious injury record hasn't even been mentioned. Throughout his entire career, he has picked up little niggling injuries, and has yet to score 20 league goals in a season EVER. There's no evidence to support the claim that he's 'over' it.

 

Frankly, I'd rather we sell him in the summer because his value might be at the highest it'll ever be right now, someone will be willing to pay money for his so-called 'lethal' finishing, and at least KK won't have to be locked into playing one formation all season because our captain is s*** in every other one.

 

Right then, stop you there for a moment. 

 

Who is Newcastle's best player, in your opinion?              I think you'll find most neutrals and analysts would say Owen with little pause or debate.

 

Who is the most important player in this formation?          Again, I think most would say Owen.  Although Martins & Butt, especially, are very important as well.

 

Name his replacement.  A FEASIBLE replacement, please -- one that Newcastle can have in the squad, ready to play on the first day of pre-season.

 

 

And others have addressed the utterly ridiculous statement that he's only good in a 4-3-3.  Someone remind me, was it a 4-3-3 he's played in his whole career?  Or even, say, last September and October against an international team that qualified ahead of England?  Yeah, I didn't think so.  It wasn't a 4-3-3 he scored his first 4 goals this season for Newcastle in either.  Perhaps even more ridiculous is the "only effective in one position" argument -- yes, that's why he's currently playing in a position he's never played before, and doing quite well.  Because he's "only effective in one position".  I've heard that song before, only it was several months ago, and from people saying Owen can only play in a 4-4-2, as an off-the-shoulder striker, and can't really contribute to the team and general play.  Not looking very prescient, are they? 

 

I'll leave formations up to Keegan, but since he's already played Owen in two very different roles in two different systems, I think Keegan would disagree with your assessment that he'd be locked into one formation if Owen stays at the club. 

[Cronky]

The 4-4-2 that we were playing, with Owen as an off the shoulder striker, was failing. Keegan improved the team performance greatly with a switch of formation and a new role for Owen.

 

I was one who didn't think Owen could adapt. He's done better than I'd expected, but the quality of his individual performances - as with most things to do with Owen - have been exaggerated somewhat. Let's at least wait till the end of the season before reaching an assessment.

[Dave]

Stupid basic maths time with silly assumed figures:

 

One year at £100k per week = £5,200,000

New contract = 4 years

Cost of new contract = 4 x £5,200,000

Cost of keeping Owen on a new contract = £20,800,000

 

Cost of replacing Owen = £12,000,000

One year at £75k per week = £3,900,000

Contract for new player = 4 years

Cost of new player's contract = 4 x £3,900,000

Deduct revenue from selling Owen = -£7,000,000

Cost of replacing Owen with expensive new player = £20,600,000

 

Yeah it's ultra-simplistic, but we might as well keep him, which ever way you look at it.

[Optimistic Nut]

The 4-4-2 that we were playing, with Owen as an off the shoulder striker, was failing. Keegan improved the team performance greatly with a switch of formation and a new role for Owen.

 

I was one who didn't think Owen could adapt. He's done better than I'd expected, but the quality of his individual performances - as with most things to do with Owen - have been exaggerated somewhat. Let's at least wait till the end of the season before reaching an assessment.

 

I think people are hugely under-estimating the fact that when Owen was first back in the team this season in the 4-4-2, it was the first time he was playing regular-ish football for around 3 years. I'm sure if Keegan was to go back to 4-4-2 any time with Owen up front, he'd still be a massive player for us now.

[Taylor Swift]

He's adapted to it in 4 games, and has played very well. Why couldn't he play well in another formation?

 

Because this season he's been shite in Allardyce's 4-3-3, 4-4-2 and KK's 4-4-2. This is evidence from THIS season, not something like 5 years ago when he still had his legs.

 

Personally, the only on-field attribute that Owen possesses that is above-average (or better) is his movement and ability to keep possession. Otherwise, the aspects of his game that we paid 17m for, the aspects that critics lauded him for and the aspects that made him so lethal years ago have pretty much all but disappeared/become useless - his pace, his movement around the box and his 'clinical' finishing. His movement's still there, no doubt, but how often, as a team, do we get him into the box in a 4-4-2? From 15+ games this season, I'd say not enough to warrant playing him up there when he had someone more dynamic like Martins on the bench.

 

 

Who is Newcastle's best player, in your opinion?            I think you'll find most neutrals and analysts would say Owen with little pause or debate.

 

Presumably those will be the neutrals and analysts that hardly watch our games then, am I right?

 

He's not our 'best' player. He's our big draw, the big name, the captain etc. but not our best player.

 

I really don't know who our best player is btw, since we've had a few different MotMs in our recent wins. Shows how well we're playing as a team and how this nonsense about Owen scoring = us changing our fortunes is true.

 

Who is the most important player in this formation?          Again, I think most would say Owen.  Although Martins & Butt, especially, are very important as well.

 

Martins. I don't remember if a poll has been constructed here asking this question but I'd say that Martins is one player whom, if missing, would force us to play another style. He's the key in the 4-3-3 because he stretches defences, opens up the space in the middle for our midfield and for Owen to drop in, enables us to play a counter-attacking game (who else has pace in the team atm?), can do things with the ball that most of our players can't and he's shown that he's got a goals in him as well.

[Taylor Swift]

Dave, that's a really good argument about why we should keep him, and I guess that's the best reason - economics - but, the key question is whether that 12m can get us something better than Owen. I'd say yes for what Owen's currently offering on the field but probably no for what he offers off of it.