Clear the Air Talks ?

[Liam Liam Liam O]

NE5:

 

My reply was predictable - very rich coming from you!

 

To answer your question though, I probably would have preferred the Woodgate money to be given to Robson to spend on team building, rather than to have Robson subsequently sacked because of the club becoming completely unstable that summer and the money then given to Souness to waste, aye. That's if Souness did actually buy Luque, like...

 

 

completely ignoring the fact that Robson was backed when he bought Woodgate in the first place .......

 

I don't think that actually we could afford to turn down the offer from Real Madrid to be honest, in view of his injury record at the time.

 

We did try to spend the money on building a team though didn't we ? Why is it that because Boumsong was a poor signing, you consider this not to have been the case ?

 

Just like you've completely ignored that the "Rooney money" was then given to Souness, man!

 

I love this stuff, it's fucking priceless. Brilliant way of avoiding this assignment.

 

eeer.......yes, yes it was. For "team building". Shame we didn't get Rooney though, don't you think ?

 

 

 

 

 

Man United wouldn't have move for Rooney when they did if shit-for-brains Shepherd hadn't announced to the world that we were going for him.  Ferguson said as much at the time.

[Rich]

NE5:

 

My reply was predictable - very rich coming from you!

 

To answer your question though, I probably would have preferred the Woodgate money to be given to Robson to spend on team building, rather than to have Robson subsequently sacked because of the club becoming completely unstable that summer and the money then given to Souness to waste, aye. That's if Souness did actually buy Luque, like...

 

 

completely ignoring the fact that Robson was backed when he bought Woodgate in the first place .......

 

I don't think that actually we could afford to turn down the offer from Real Madrid to be honest, in view of his injury record at the time.

 

We did try to spend the money on building a team though didn't we ? Why is it that because Boumsong was a poor signing, you consider this not to have been the case ?

 

Just like you've completely ignored that the "Rooney money" was then given to Souness, man!

 

I love this stuff, it's fucking priceless. Brilliant way of avoiding this assignment.

 

eeer.......yes, yes it was. For "team building". Shame we didn't get Rooney though, don't you think ?

 

Dunno like. Souness might have driven him out of the club like he did with Bellamy?

 

possibly, he might even decide we are better off without these trophy players ?

 

Are you calling Craig Bellamy a trophy player now?

[NE5]

Oh, and well done on completely ignoring the Owen stuff as well. Fantastic work.

 

What question about Owen ?

 

I've answered most things I've seen, unlike other people that I ask, and you know who they are.

 

I also haven't got all day to spend on here too.

 

About how at 2 years into his deal, where he'd probably taken upwards of £10M off us in wages and cost us £16M, he'd played less than 14 games and scored 7 goals - making his signing a bit of a disaster at that point, to say the least.

 

well, if you'd known that was going to happen, you should have rang the club and told them !!

 

 

 

I tried!! Thing is, Shepherd would never speak to the fans man.

 

If Mort had been there, the whole thing could have been avoided!

 

and you'd tell him to build a team of johnny averages instead of players like Rooney no doubt 

[NE5]

NE5:

 

My reply was predictable - very rich coming from you!

 

To answer your question though, I probably would have preferred the Woodgate money to be given to Robson to spend on team building, rather than to have Robson subsequently sacked because of the club becoming completely unstable that summer and the money then given to Souness to waste, aye. That's if Souness did actually buy Luque, like...

 

 

completely ignoring the fact that Robson was backed when he bought Woodgate in the first place .......

 

I don't think that actually we could afford to turn down the offer from Real Madrid to be honest, in view of his injury record at the time.

 

We did try to spend the money on building a team though didn't we ? Why is it that because Boumsong was a poor signing, you consider this not to have been the case ?

 

Just like you've completely ignored that the "Rooney money" was then given to Souness, man!

 

I love this stuff, it's fucking priceless. Brilliant way of avoiding this assignment.

 

eeer.......yes, yes it was. For "team building". Shame we didn't get Rooney though, don't you think ?

 

Dunno like. Souness might have driven him out of the club like he did with Bellamy?

 

possibly, he might even decide we are better off without these trophy players ?

 

Are you calling Craig Bellamy a trophy player now?

 

no, he was a quality player, its others who use such daft phrases.

[Rich]

I wouldn't have to tell Mort, he does that already.

 

Just look at Beye, Faye, Enrique, etc.

 

Johnny Averages, to a man, 'cos they only cost 2/3 of what Owen did between them!!

[Rich]

NE5:

 

My reply was predictable - very rich coming from you!

 

To answer your question though, I probably would have preferred the Woodgate money to be given to Robson to spend on team building, rather than to have Robson subsequently sacked because of the club becoming completely unstable that summer and the money then given to Souness to waste, aye. That's if Souness did actually buy Luque, like...

 

 

completely ignoring the fact that Robson was backed when he bought Woodgate in the first place .......

 

I don't think that actually we could afford to turn down the offer from Real Madrid to be honest, in view of his injury record at the time.

 

We did try to spend the money on building a team though didn't we ? Why is it that because Boumsong was a poor signing, you consider this not to have been the case ?

 

Just like you've completely ignored that the "Rooney money" was then given to Souness, man!

 

I love this stuff, it's fucking priceless. Brilliant way of avoiding this assignment.

 

eeer.......yes, yes it was. For "team building". Shame we didn't get Rooney though, don't you think ?

 

Dunno like. Souness might have driven him out of the club like he did with Bellamy?

 

possibly, he might even decide we are better off without these trophy players ?

 

Are you calling Craig Bellamy a trophy player now?

 

no, he was a quality player, its others who use such daft phrases.

 

He was quality like, bit injury prone mind.

[Tooj]

When a player as good as Rooney becomes available despite the other complications, if the cash was there to make a bid and you genuinely have a chance of getting him, then you go for him, we may not have got him, but even Rooney said if Man Utd hadn't come in then he would have went to us.

[NE5]

I wouldn't have to tell Mort, he does that already.

 

Just look at Beye, Faye, Enrique, etc.

 

Johnny Averages, to a man, 'cos they only cost 2/3 of what Owen did between them!!

 

what about Smith, Barton, Cacapa, Rozenhal, and as you have said yourself, Duff ?

 

Then ask yourself why we have finshed 12th/13th.

 

 

[NE5]

When a player as good as Rooney becomes available despite the other complications, if the cash was there to make a bid and you genuinely have a chance of getting him, then you go for him, we may not have got him, but even Rooney said if Man Utd hadn't come in then he would have went to us.

 

precisely

 

 

[Rich]

When a player as good as Rooney becomes available despite the other complications, if the cash was there to make a bid and you genuinely have a chance of getting him, then you go for him, we may not have got him, but even Rooney said if Man Utd hadn't come in then he would have went to us.

 

We'd still have had a shite defence, mind, and I dread to think what it would have done to the club financially.

 

Not to mention the Bellamy implosion waiting to happen, the fact we had Shearer, Kluivert and Ameobi as well...

 

It's often not as simple as "someone is available, get them bought", I think that's the point, you can't do that at the expense of everything else, as exciting as it would be.

[Tooj]

When a player as good as Rooney becomes available despite the other complications, if the cash was there to make a bid and you genuinely have a chance of getting him, then you go for him, we may not have got him, but even Rooney said if Man Utd hadn't come in then he would have went to us.

 

We'd still have had a shite defence, mind, and I dread to think what it would have done to the club financially.

 

Not to mention the Bellamy implosion waiting to happen, the fact we had Shearer, Kluivert and Ameobi as well...

 

It's often not as simple as "someone is available, get them bought", I think that's the point, you can't do that at the expense of everything else, as exciting as it would be.

 

A na man, that's why I said of the complications, but a player like Rooney can be the cornerstone of your team for years to come. Someone that talented who is within your grasp, you just have to go for them. Weren't Northern Rock going to be putting the money up for Rooney as well? Sure something like that rings a bell.

[Rich]

I wouldn't have to tell Mort, he does that already.

 

Just look at Beye, Faye, Enrique, etc.

 

Johnny Averages, to a man, 'cos they only cost 2/3 of what Owen did between them!!

 

what about Smith, Barton, Cacapa, Rozenhal, and as you have said yourself, Duff ?

 

Then ask yourself why we have finshed 12th/13th.

 

I thought you rated Smith??

 

Mort wasn't the chairman when we bought Duff, was he?

 

I'll give you Cacapa and Rozehnal, but Barton looks like sorting himself out.

 

If you'd known that those players were going to be poor though, why didn't you give the club a ring to let them know!? You don't want us to fail, do you? :-[

[Baggio]

I wouldn't have to tell Mort, he does that already.

 

Just look at Beye, Faye, Enrique, etc.

 

Johnny Averages, to a man, 'cos they only cost 2/3 of what Owen did between them!!

 

what about Smith, Barton, Cacapa, Rozenhal, and as you have said yourself, Duff ?

 

Then ask yourself why we have finshed 13th.

 

 

 

You were the one that wanted Smith here so it's a bit two faced to moan now about his signing.

[Rich]

When a player as good as Rooney becomes available despite the other complications, if the cash was there to make a bid and you genuinely have a chance of getting him, then you go for him, we may not have got him, but even Rooney said if Man Utd hadn't come in then he would have went to us.

 

We'd still have had a shite defence, mind, and I dread to think what it would have done to the club financially.

 

Not to mention the Bellamy implosion waiting to happen, the fact we had Shearer, Kluivert and Ameobi as well...

 

It's often not as simple as "someone is available, get them bought", I think that's the point, you can't do that at the expense of everything else, as exciting as it would be.

 

A na man, that's why I said of the complications, but a player like Rooney can be the cornerstone of your team for years to come. Someone that talented who is within your grasp, you just have to go for them. Weren't Northern Rock going to be putting the money up for Rooney as well? Sure something like that rings a bell.

 

I think Northern Rock "putting the money up" was simply them giving us the sponsorship money in one go, rather than in staggered payments, like they did for Owen. It's a bit different then, isn't it?

 

I'd also say that it's incredibly unlikely to think that Rooney would have stayed here "for years". As soon as a bigger club came in for him, he'd have been away.

 

Man Utd were in a position to buy Rooney and surround him with other top class players. We weren't, unfortunately. If we'd got him, that would have been that for I dunno how long. The money was drying up - most of it wasn't even ours, in fact.

[johnnypd]

i agree with Tooj actually. however the only way we could reasonably expect to attract Rooney to the club ahead of the Man Utd's, or keep him here, is by having a good, well rounded team of players other than him. there's no chance a player like him would come if half the defence was full of glaring holes, or even if he did come, no chance he'd hang around unless we spent similar sums elsewhere in the side. unfortunately if you have a 2nd rate side out of europe, you can only get over-rated, injury-prone names like Owen, and even then by paying so much that your nearest competitors are priced out of the negotiations.

[Rich]

i agree with Tooj actually. however the only way we could reasonably expect to attract Rooney to the club ahead of the Man Utd's, or keep him here, is by having a good, well rounded team of players other than him. there's no chance a player like him would come if half the defence was full of glaring holes, or even if he did come, no chance he'd hang around unless we spent similar sums elsewhere in the side. unfortunately if you have a 2nd rate side out of europe, you can only get over-rated, injury-prone names like Owen, and even then by paying so much that your nearest competitors are priced out of the negotiations.

 

So you agree with Jonny, but can see that us buying Rooney at that time probably wouldn't have been ideal?

 

That's probably the right answer. Thing is, like I said, it was Man Utd who were in the position to do that at that time, not us.

 

As nice as it might have been, I'm not sure it was plausible to take a risk of that magnitude on even a player like Rooney.

[johnnypd]

i agree with Tooj actually. however the only way we could reasonably expect to attract Rooney to the club ahead of the Man Utd's, or keep him here, is by having a good, well rounded team of players other than him. there's no chance a player like him would come if half the defence was full of glaring holes, or even if he did come, no chance he'd hang around unless we spent similar sums elsewhere in the side. unfortunately if you have a 2nd rate side out of europe, you can only get over-rated, injury-prone names like Owen, and even then by paying so much that your nearest competitors are priced out of the negotiations.

 

So you agree with Jonny, but can see that us buying Rooney at that time probably wouldn't have been ideal?

 

That's probably the right answer. Thing is, like I said, it was Man Utd who were in the position to do that at that time, not us.

 

As nice as it might have been, I'm not sure it was plausible to take a risk of that magnitude on even a player like Rooney.

 

Indeed. and even had Rooney came, is there a guarantee we could have made him the consistent and level-headed performer he is today, or would he have gone off the rails? remember the season before he left Everton, they finished one place above the relegation zone so there is no guarantee he would've improved our league position.

[Rich]

i agree with Tooj actually. however the only way we could reasonably expect to attract Rooney to the club ahead of the Man Utd's, or keep him here, is by having a good, well rounded team of players other than him. there's no chance a player like him would come if half the defence was full of glaring holes, or even if he did come, no chance he'd hang around unless we spent similar sums elsewhere in the side. unfortunately if you have a 2nd rate side out of europe, you can only get over-rated, injury-prone names like Owen, and even then by paying so much that your nearest competitors are priced out of the negotiations.

 

So you agree with Jonny, but can see that us buying Rooney at that time probably wouldn't have been ideal?

 

That's probably the right answer. Thing is, like I said, it was Man Utd who were in the position to do that at that time, not us.

 

As nice as it might have been, I'm not sure it was plausible to take a risk of that magnitude on even a player like Rooney.

 

Indeed. and even had Rooney came, is there a guarantee we could have made him the consistent and level-headed performer he is today, or would he have gone off the rails? remember the season before he left Everton, they finished one place above the relegation zone so there is no guarantee he would've improved our league position.

 

He would have been an idiot to come here ahead of Man Utd, undoubtedly, the proof is in the pudding there.

 

One player doesn't make a team and that's even just discounting what it would have meant for Wor Craig, etc.

 

It was a nice thought, if we were playing Football Manager.

[NE5]

I wouldn't have to tell Mort, he does that already.

 

Just look at Beye, Faye, Enrique, etc.

 

Johnny Averages, to a man, 'cos they only cost 2/3 of what Owen did between them!!

 

what about Smith, Barton, Cacapa, Rozenhal, and as you have said yourself, Duff ?

 

Then ask yourself why we have finshed 12th/13th.

 

I thought you rated Smith??

 

Mort wasn't the chairman when we bought Duff, was he?

 

I'll give you Cacapa and Rozehnal, but Barton looks like sorting himself out.

 

If you'd known that those players were going to be poor though, why didn't you give the club a ring to let them know!? You don't want us to fail, do you? :-[

 

having seen real shite long before you were even born, I certainly don't want it again. Advocating the club buys the top player for the top dollar if necessary, makes that question look a bit daft ?

 

Equally, I've heard the sort of thing a club says to fool its supporters into thinking its progressive. Basically, I don't believe they are progressive until they show me that they are.

 

Smith was a good player at Leeds, I'm not the only one to think this. It's OK now saying that he's not performed here - which is true - but you buy players on what you have seen them play, agreed  ? If his injury is going to prevent him from becoming that player again, well he isn't the first and he won't be the last.

 

Duff is another in the same category.

 

Barton too, hasn't performed like he did at Man City, but he's having problems.

 

The difference is, I'm not criticising the club for buying them, and they are the sort of players you are talking about when you say "building a team" .... but I sure would rather have had Rooney than all three when he became available, whereas you and others are saying the opposite

 

 

 

 

[johnnypd]

i agree with Tooj actually. however the only way we could reasonably expect to attract Rooney to the club ahead of the Man Utd's, or keep him here, is by having a good, well rounded team of players other than him. there's no chance a player like him would come if half the defence was full of glaring holes, or even if he did come, no chance he'd hang around unless we spent similar sums elsewhere in the side. unfortunately if you have a 2nd rate side out of europe, you can only get over-rated, injury-prone names like Owen, and even then by paying so much that your nearest competitors are priced out of the negotiations.

 

So you agree with Jonny, but can see that us buying Rooney at that time probably wouldn't have been ideal?

 

That's probably the right answer. Thing is, like I said, it was Man Utd who were in the position to do that at that time, not us.

 

As nice as it might have been, I'm not sure it was plausible to take a risk of that magnitude on even a player like Rooney.

 

Indeed. and even had Rooney came, is there a guarantee we could have made him the consistent and level-headed performer he is today, or would he have gone off the rails? remember the season before he left Everton, they finished one place above the relegation zone so there is no guarantee he would've improved our league position.

 

He would have been an idiot to come here ahead of Man Utd, undoubtedly, the proof is in the pudding there.

 

One player doesn't make a team and that's even just discounting what it would have meant for Wor Craig, etc.

 

It was a nice thought, if we were playing Football Manager.

 

looking at Everton again, they finished 17th with a great player like Rooney in the team, narrowly avoiding relegation. their problem was shit players in the other 10 positions. so they sold Rooney for a big sum, invested wisely in players like Cahill, and the very next season, without the star player but with a more balanced squad, qualified for the Champion's League by finishing 4th.

[fredbob]

It's a "trophy player" when a disproportionate amount of the budget is blown on one star, shirt-selling signing.

 

names ?

 

 

Owen is the only player that genuinely springs to mind to me of players we have actually bought when people bandy this "trophy player" stuff about, because until recently he'd been a massive failure for this football club.

 

Rooney is probably the best example of it, though, and we didn't even sign him.

 

Owens goals, and Martins, have just saved us from relegation.

 

Poor signing ? I don't think so.

 

I don't think ManU would consider Rooney a "trophy" signing, and to be honest I find it absolutely incredible that any Newcastle United supporter would be unhappy to have him.

 

Ridiculous.

 

Just giving you the answer you were asking for, as I assume those two would be the players singled out as trophy signings/potential trophy signings.

 

As for the bold bit, it's a very superficial argument, as someone could easily counter with "if that £16M had been better spent, we might not have been fighting relegation to begin with", which would be a fair enough comment. Then we'd end up in that brilliant never-ending cycle again.

 

Faced with a choice of spending 16m quid on a proven player who you know is top class, or 3 or 4 sub standard players who are decidely risky, its a complete no brainer.

 

The quality player wins every single time, for me.

 

Alan Shearer spring to mind ?

 

Was he a "trophy" player then ? Owen was actually one of the few players around capable of stepping into his shoes, and not being fazed by it or anything. Its exactly the sort of player the club should have looked to replace Shearer with, which they did.

 

 

 

Well kind of yes. didnt we have to end up needing to sell players in order to finance the summer budget after Shearer had signed. Im not doubting the quality of the singin or the player but if i rememebr  correctyl signing Shearer compromised us as a club.

 

So in some respects yes he was a trophy signing. People have a definite view of what a trophy signing is and they dont discrimnate the facts a trophy signings ability or overall quality but people are able to assess there usefullness to a club.

 

For example if you ask them who they;d rather sign Klass Jan Huntelaar otr Thierry Henry, i can bet alot of money that a lot of  people would go for Huntelaar.

 

Now for you id imagine you;d go for Thierry Henry - and thats fair enough, i think people would describe him somewhat of a trophy player and if you can see the reasons why people would rather spend the same money on an unproven talent who has bags of potential then maybe you;ll figure out the difference.

 

oh, I'm quite aware of the difference fredbob.

 

Thanks all the same.

 

Thierry is getting on a bit, the price would have to reflect his age is what I think, just thought I'd add that, along with reminding you that Dyer, Jenas, Bramble, Cort, Ambrose, Gavilan, and Viana all had "potential"

 

I realise it suits some people to pretend the club hasn't attempted this path before .........

 

 

 

Sorry - i didnt mean for it to sound patronising- was merely offering my view on my definition of what is a "trophy signing". To be fair you mention a few names who were all part of our most successful period, i get the impression that you think people are implying that the old board didnt invest in youth, period, and quite frankly you;d be wrong, but its an interesting point that you would point to talent that was acquired during one of our most successful spells under Shepherd, something which in my view was not a coincident.

 

So yourself acknowledge the difference between Henry and Huntelaar, well those difference are what defines a trophy sgining in my book. I just think that the term "trophy signings" which you obviously dislike got coined at a period of histroy in NUFC when big money and had very little to show for it -  some people think it was the teams faults for not performing other blame the policy itselfs.

 

 

[Mr Logic]

Trying to separate a trophy signing from a top player is pretty much like playing with words, semantics.

 

It cannot be encapsulated into something so simple, like a computer game, as there as so many other variables to take into consideration. There were two occasions in my memory when our club was 'clicking'.

 

Keegan had us at full click in his first stint as manager and there's no telling what may have happened if SJH's other financial obligations had not resulted in the club being effectively sold onto the stock exchange.

 

The next occasion was SBR, he had us fluctuating, at times, between 90-95% 'clicking', and there's a whole catalogue of speculation and rumour surrounding the demise of that regime.

 

Imbetween those times the club probably wasn't that healthy a place to be depending on your own personal psychological make-up. The point being is some of those players so regularly demonised could well have been entirley different propositions if they'd played whilst the club was clicking.

 

Boumsong, who for many is close to the anti-christ of football, played most of his term in a team that was under some kind of pressure. For all that he could look quite sublime in flashes.

 

Kluivert had been around the block and then some, he'd seen it all and maybe lost the spark that produces commitment and desire, or maybe it was still latent within him and circumstance conspired against him.

 

Luque possibly had mental health problems for all I know, but he also had talent if it could be harnessed and unleashed.

 

They were all here at the wrong time, wrong place. Any one of those guys would have been an entirely different proposition under the first Keegan revolution. At a time when the club was united. All too often in the interim periods it has been a club disunited.

 

All that said, my own feeling is during the periods of being disunited there have been some poor decisions made in the selection of players. It does appear as though some were bought with the idea that it would mollify any discontent amongst the rank and file of the  vociferous ones. (Namely us, the supporters.) If they were a known name the fans will be excited, if it was someone unknown.. it just wasn't an option.

 

The club as a United entity has been hung out to dry more times than it bears thinking about. As I stated in the beginning of this post, which has run a little over schedule, it has only clicked twice in my living memory. There's a chance it's about to start clicking again, and I'd like to see some unity surrounding the place to encourage the seed to fruition.

 

 

 

 

[Rich]

NE5:

 

The question was a joke, you miserable old bugger. I thought that would be fairly obvious after you had asked me the same thing earlier.

 

Rooney was going to cost a fair bit more than £17M though, wasn't he (the sum of Duff, Barton and Smith)? It's more apt to say would you rather have Rooney at £27M or whatever it was, than all of the players we signed in the summer this time around. Despite the failures of some of them, I still think that would have been the right way to go if we only had £27M to spend.

 

It's a wank argument as it is like, but I'm trying to work with what you're giving me here. Totally different timings and circumstances.

 

As for you not criticising the club for signing "them" - has someone else been on your account since the summer, then?

 

All we've heard from you is about "Johnny Averages" and "no ambition", which is the polar opposite stance of what others have taken in the past. The last board couldn't win with certain people on here and the current board can't win with certain people on here, I find the whole thing more amusing than anything else.

 

At the end of the day all I want for the club is success and for it to keep existing, I don't care whether it comes one way or another, but I just hope it comes. That's why you don't tend to hear me moaning on too much these days, I've accepted that I've got no say in the grand scheme of things and I'm happy to ride the wave and see where it takes us.

 

I'm happy Shepherd is gone simply because I thought the man was a cunt and that he'd had his time here, I have no qualms admitting that he had his good spells and he did a lot of good, but the club was sinking fast and he'd lost the fans. His position was untenable. He's just a man though, like Ashley is, like Mort is, it's the club that matters.

[NE5]

i agree with Tooj actually. however the only way we could reasonably expect to attract Rooney to the club ahead of the Man Utd's, or keep him here, is by having a good, well rounded team of players other than him. there's no chance a player like him would come if half the defence was full of glaring holes, or even if he did come, no chance he'd hang around unless we spent similar sums elsewhere in the side. unfortunately if you have a 2nd rate side out of europe, you can only get over-rated, injury-prone names like Owen, and even then by paying so much that your nearest competitors are priced out of the negotiations.

 

So you agree with Jonny, but can see that us buying Rooney at that time probably wouldn't have been ideal?

 

That's probably the right answer. Thing is, like I said, it was Man Utd who were in the position to do that at that time, not us.

 

As nice as it might have been, I'm not sure it was plausible to take a risk of that magnitude on even a player like Rooney.

 

Indeed. and even had Rooney came, is there a guarantee we could have made him the consistent and level-headed performer he is today, or would he have gone off the rails? remember the season before he left Everton, they finished one place above the relegation zone so there is no guarantee he would've improved our league position.

 

He would have been an idiot to come here ahead of Man Utd, undoubtedly, the proof is in the pudding there.

 

One player doesn't make a team and that's even just discounting what it would have meant for Wor Craig, etc.

 

It was a nice thought, if we were playing Football Manager.

 

looking at Everton again, they finished 17th with a great player like Rooney in the team, narrowly avoiding relegation. their problem was shit players in the other 10 positions. so they sold Rooney for a big sum, invested wisely in players like Cahill, and the very next season, without the star player but with a more balanced squad, qualified for the Champion's League by finishing 4th.

 

Equally Johnny, Newcastle sold Gazza [and Beardsley before him] and ended up with a more balanced squad that we all knew were going down by Xmas.

 

Personally I knew we were going down before we even kicked a ball that season.

 

Rooney was still very young then but ManU have also gone from strength to strength with Rooney. Its interesting that Ronaldo is getting all the plaudits because he's a world class star, but I read somewhere that Manu have lost all of their games in the premiership this season when Rooney hasn't played.

 

Moyes has done well at Everton, but at the stage they are now [which I think is only slightly better than us and only temporary as we've been well ahead of them for most of the past decade] its players like Rooney which is what is needed to go higher.

 

I don't think they will do it anyway, because they are operating on too tight a business and won't stretch to it [my whole point], not that I give a toss about them like.

 

 

[Rich]

Trying to separate a trophy signing from a top player is pretty much like playing with words, semantics.

 

It cannot be encapsulated into something so simple, like a computer game, as there as so many other variables to take into consideration. There were two occasions in my memory when our club was 'clicking'.

 

Keegan had us at full click in his first stint as manager and there's no telling what may have happened if SJH's other financial obligations had not resulted in the club being effectively sold onto the stock exchange.

 

The next occasion was SBR, he had us fluctuating, at times, between 90-95% 'clicking', and there's a whole catalogue of speculation and rumour surrounding the demise of that regime.

 

Imbetween those times the club probably wasn't that healthy a place to be depending on your own personal psychological make-up. The point being is some of those players so regularly demonised could well have been entirley different propositions if they'd played whilst the club was clicking.

 

Boumsong, who for many is close to the anti-christ of football, played most of his term in a team that was under some kind of pressure. For all that he could look quite sublime in flashes.

 

Kluivert had been around the block and then some, he'd seen it all and maybe lost the spark that produces commitment and desire, or maybe it was still latent within him and circumstance conspired against him.

 

Luque possibly had mental health problems for all I know, but he also had talent if it could be harnessed and unleashed.

 

They were all here at the wrong time, wrong place. Any one of those guys would have been an entirely different proposition under the first Keegan revolution. At a time when the club was united. All too often in the interim periods it has been a club disunited.

 

All that said, my own feeling is during the periods of being disunited there have been some poor decisions made in the selection of players. It does appear as though some were bought with the idea that it would mollify any discontent amongst the rank and file of the  vociferous ones. (Namely us, the supporters.) If they were a known name the fans will be excited, if it was someone unknown.. it just wasn't an option.

 

The club as a United entity has been hung out to dry more times than it bears thinking about. As I stated in the beginning of this post, which has run a little over schedule, it has only clicked twice in my living memory. There's a chance it's about to start clicking again, and I'd like to see some unity surrounding the place to encourage the seed to fruition.

 

 

A good take on things, and how I look at stuff as well.

 

Sometimes you have to look a bit deeper than just saying "we should have bought him then for that much money" and take everything else into account, the circumstances, too many people don't do that on here and are shown up because of it.