Tomorrow's Mirror!!

[Cronky]

What's the problem with Curbishley? I would really like someone to explain this. It can't be his record. He's kept a small club in the top division, playing good football, with no financial resources, for several seasons. What's more at one point that club was bankrupt and not even playing on their own ground.

 

Curbishley comes across as very calm and sensible. His comments about the game are very astute, and he clearly has confidence in his own ideas. His teams always look very positive, relaxed and motivated.

 

I think the problem with Curbishley seems to be his quietly-spoken image. He's not a teacup-thrower, and he doesn't lose his cool. To assume that he lacks passion or the ability to motivate would be a mistake. It's all about instilling confidence in players and that's not about being a loudmouth.

 

Yes, he'd be ideal if we were a small club in the top division, wanting to play good football, with no financial resources, for several seasons. But we're not.

 

Although we're not as big as we think we are, we're massive compared to charlton, and the transition from small club to bigger club isn't always a happy one. Whereas he might excel in a no money tight budget low-expectations scenario, he might suck arse at the money-to-spend high-expectations bit.

 

Every single top manager - whether it be Mourinho, Ferguson or whoever - has had to go through the transition that you're talking about there. There's no guarantees, but there's no better indication of a person's ability to handle a big club than their ability to handle a smaller club beforehand.

 

And managers like Mourinho, Ferguson etc had managed to win something at their small clubs which gave them the step up.

 

Has Curbishley managed to win something at his small club? In 10 ****ing years?

 

Is he a winner?

 

The fact is that no team outside the current big four has won either the League or the FA Cup in the past 10 years. The only trophy that's remotely available to clubs like Charlton is the League Cup. If you're dismissing Curbishley's credentials on those grounds, that's scarcely fair.

 

I'm not saying Curbishley is the only or best possible candidate. But realistically we have to look at a manager who's taking a step up, not a step down or sideways.

[Skirge]

Curbs is looking for work and you can bet if Fred is thinking of sacking Roeder then Curbs will be the man he is looking at. I am not 100% convinced that Curbs would do a good job here, he did okay with Charlton but lets face it they were never really a big force in the league. Yes he would do better than Glenn but not as good as I think we should be doing.

[Guest Amanda]

Curbs might go to West Ham, another London club.  Not sure about him.

[tmonkey]

I like Curbs, think hes potentially a good manager, not great or top level, but potentially the same level as Martin Jol or Hughes for example.

 

As Jol (poster) says, noone knows how good or bad he is, its impossible to tell from his career because Charlton have never had the finances to take any kind of step up, and yet hes achieved moderate success without turning Charlton into an ugly, fighting, spitting, scrapping team that the likes of Allardyce, Hughes, Bruce, Moyes, Kinnear, etc, have done at various points of their career.

 

However, we need to look at what type of club we are before making any appointment. We need European football to sustain our finances, everyone knows this, even our incompetent chairman knows this and has us entering crap like the Intertoto because we have to. Therefore, why continually appoint managers with either shiite or nil records in Europe?

 

Its quite simply bind bogglingly daft. The new man will come in, and hell instantly be asked to qualify for Europe, and then after that, plan/manage/control a double-headed campaign where the team has to deal with a completely different ball game (Europe) as well as doing well domestically. Why give that job to someone with no success there, no track record, nothing to measure their capability of handling such a secondary tough task on top of what is an already tough primary task (doing well domestically)?

 

Therefore, although Curbishley may well be a good manager or might be a shiite one, we need to be looking for someone with a significantly stronger CV if we want as best a guarantee as possible of stopping this filthy rot that has set itself within the club.

 

And I dont think for a second we cant get a manager like that. Im betting we could have someone like Hector Cuper, Van Gaal, Svenn Goran, etc, here tomorrow if we wanted, managers with impressive CVs in that theyve achieved some top level success, but too sporadic from the viewpoint of a CL elite club.

 

But knowing Fat Fred, we wont bother with that lot. Maybe its because theyre foreign, who knows.

[Dave]

blueyes.gif

[NE5]

I like Curbs, think hes potentially a good manager, not great or top level, but potentially the same level as Martin Jol or Hughes for example.

 

As Jol (poster) says, noone knows how good or bad he is, its impossible to tell from his career because Charlton have never had the finances to take any kind of step up, and yet hes achieved moderate success without turning Charlton into an ugly, fighting, spitting, scrapping team that the likes of Allardyce, Hughes, Bruce, Moyes, Kinnear, etc, have done at various points of their career.

 

However, we need to look at what type of club we are before making any appointment. We need European football to sustain our finances, everyone knows this, even our incompetent chairman knows this and has us entering crap like the Intertoto because we have to. Therefore, why continually appoint managers with either shiite or nil records in Europe?

 

 

this is the problem with most of these anti board/Shepherd posts. They make points about the club which are fair then get carried away making things up that does nothing else other than ruin the credibility of any good points they do make.

[macbeth]

 

 

this is the problem with most of these anti board/Shepherd posts. They make points about the club which are fair then get carried away making things up that does nothing else other than ruin the credibility of any good points they do make.

 

As chairman I expect that Shepherd came up with a few key points that a manager of his club needed to have.

 

The three key ones for me would bth

1. Proven ability to improve an existing side

2. Good record on buying players to bring in to complement those already there

3. Record of successfully managing a side in a European competition

 

There are lots of others, but they are the key ones for me. Everyone will have a judgement on the relevant merits of any particualr candidate. For me Martin O'Neill met those, others I know weren't so sure. That's opinion.

 

Curbishley fits point one, as he took a low level side and took them to the level that they were disappointed at finishign mid-table. I guess he must have succeeded on poitn 2, I don't know Charlton's buys well enough to tell. He has no European experience though.

 

When Roeder was appointed a case coudl be made to say he had point 1 covered, although it was over a very short period of time. Point 2 was again unproven, point 3 he was missing.

 

I'm sure that Shepherd has a fuller list of requirements, he works closer with people who have done the job so should be able to add in the other key selection criteria. I believe he shoved in new point 1 when he appointed Souness, that over rode all other thoughts, and that was that he had to be a disciplinarian who could sort out the bad influences.

 

If/when he commes to relpace Roeder I hope he doesn't tick in some other new top priority and ignore the basic requirements. The obvious other top priority he may have is that the manager should be a Geordie. If he goes down that route then he may well make the wrong decision, again.

 

If Shpeherd tries to play the "it's what the fans want" card again then I would happily campaign for NE5 to take over as chairman. The chairman should lead, not respond.

 

 

[Baggio]

I like Curbs, think hes potentially a good manager, not great or top level, but potentially the same level as Martin Jol or Hughes for example.

 

As Jol (poster) says, noone knows how good or bad he is, its impossible to tell from his career because Charlton have never had the finances to take any kind of step up, and yet hes achieved moderate success without turning Charlton into an ugly, fighting, spitting, scrapping team that the likes of Allardyce, Hughes, Bruce, Moyes, Kinnear, etc, have done at various points of their career.

 

However, we need to look at what type of club we are before making any appointment. We need European football to sustain our finances, everyone knows this, even our incompetent chairman knows this and has us entering crap like the Intertoto because we have to. Therefore, why continually appoint managers with either shiite or nil records in Europe?

 

 

this is the problem with most of these anti board/Shepherd posts. They make points about the club which are fair then get carried away making things up that does nothing else other than ruin the credibility of any good points they do make.

 

Dalglish - Early exit from the UEFA Cup with Blackburn.

 

Gullit - Quarter finals of the Cup Winners Cup before being sacked by Chelsea.

 

Sir Bobby - Won the UEFA Cup with Ipswich, Won the European Cup Winners Cup with Barcelona, Poor performances in Europe with PSV.

 

Souness - Shite everywhere he went.

 

Roeder - No European experience.

 

Out of all the managers we've had since Keegan only Robson has any sort of European pedigree, I think tmonkey makes a valid point.

[Howaythelads]

I like Curbs, think hes potentially a good manager, not great or top level, but potentially the same level as Martin Jol or Hughes for example.

 

As Jol (poster) says, noone knows how good or bad he is, its impossible to tell from his career because Charlton have never had the finances to take any kind of step up, and yet hes achieved moderate success without turning Charlton into an ugly, fighting, spitting, scrapping team that the likes of Allardyce, Hughes, Bruce, Moyes, Kinnear, etc, have done at various points of their career.

 

However, we need to look at what type of club we are before making any appointment. We need European football to sustain our finances, everyone knows this, even our incompetent chairman knows this and has us entering crap like the Intertoto because we have to. Therefore, why continually appoint managers with either shiite or nil records in Europe?

 

 

this is the problem with most of these anti board/Shepherd posts. They make points about the club which are fair then get carried away making things up that does nothing else other than ruin the credibility of any good points they do make.

 

Dalglish - Early exit from the UEFA Cup with Blackburn.

 

Gullit - Quarter finals of the Cup Winners Cup before being sacked by Chelsea.

 

Sir Bobby - Won the UEFA Cup with Ipswich, Won the European Cup Winners Cup with Barcelona, Poor performances in Europe with PSV.

 

Souness - Shite everywhere he went.

 

Roeder - No European experience.

 

Out of all the managers we've had since Keegan only Robson has any sort of European pedigree, I think tmonkey makes a valid point.

 

If you're going to post track records why not be honest and post the whole thing......? There's more to it than Europe.

 

[Baggio]

I like Curbs, think hes potentially a good manager, not great or top level, but potentially the same level as Martin Jol or Hughes for example.

 

As Jol (poster) says, noone knows how good or bad he is, its impossible to tell from his career because Charlton have never had the finances to take any kind of step up, and yet hes achieved moderate success without turning Charlton into an ugly, fighting, spitting, scrapping team that the likes of Allardyce, Hughes, Bruce, Moyes, Kinnear, etc, have done at various points of their career.

 

However, we need to look at what type of club we are before making any appointment. We need European football to sustain our finances, everyone knows this, even our incompetent chairman knows this and has us entering crap like the Intertoto because we have to. Therefore, why continually appoint managers with either shiite or nil records in Europe?

 

 

this is the problem with most of these anti board/Shepherd posts. They make points about the club which are fair then get carried away making things up that does nothing else other than ruin the credibility of any good points they do make.

 

Dalglish - Early exit from the UEFA Cup with Blackburn.

 

Gullit - Quarter finals of the Cup Winners Cup before being sacked by Chelsea.

 

Sir Bobby - Won the UEFA Cup with Ipswich, Won the European Cup Winners Cup with Barcelona, Poor performances in Europe with PSV.

 

Souness - Shite everywhere he went.

 

Roeder - No European experience.

 

Out of all the managers we've had since Keegan only Robson has any sort of European pedigree, I think tmonkey makes a valid point.

 

If you're going to post track records why not be honest and post the whole thing......? There's more to it than Europe.

 

 

Because tmonkey's point is "why continually appoint managers with either shiite or nil records in Europe?", to back up his statement I posted their track records in Europe, nobody mentioned their success at domestic level.

 

[Howaythelads]

I like Curbs, think hes potentially a good manager, not great or top level, but potentially the same level as Martin Jol or Hughes for example.

 

As Jol (poster) says, noone knows how good or bad he is, its impossible to tell from his career because Charlton have never had the finances to take any kind of step up, and yet hes achieved moderate success without turning Charlton into an ugly, fighting, spitting, scrapping team that the likes of Allardyce, Hughes, Bruce, Moyes, Kinnear, etc, have done at various points of their career.

 

However, we need to look at what type of club we are before making any appointment. We need European football to sustain our finances, everyone knows this, even our incompetent chairman knows this and has us entering crap like the Intertoto because we have to. Therefore, why continually appoint managers with either shiite or nil records in Europe?

 

 

this is the problem with most of these anti board/Shepherd posts. They make points about the club which are fair then get carried away making things up that does nothing else other than ruin the credibility of any good points they do make.

 

Dalglish - Early exit from the UEFA Cup with Blackburn.

 

Gullit - Quarter finals of the Cup Winners Cup before being sacked by Chelsea.

 

Sir Bobby - Won the UEFA Cup with Ipswich, Won the European Cup Winners Cup with Barcelona, Poor performances in Europe with PSV.

 

Souness - Shite everywhere he went.

 

Roeder - No European experience.

 

Out of all the managers we've had since Keegan only Robson has any sort of European pedigree, I think tmonkey makes a valid point.

 

If you're going to post track records why not be honest and post the whole thing......? There's more to it than Europe.

 

 

Because tmonkey's point is "why continually appoint managers with either shiite or nil records in Europe?", to back up his statement I posted their track records in Europe, nobody mentioned their success at domestic level.

 

 

I know what he said but the fact is there is absolutely no reason at all to narrow it down to Europe only, apart from the fact it suits some to do so.

 

Success in the PL and/or FA Cup definitely count. Even the League Cup was cited by some who were backing Martin O'Neill, but as I say, when it suits.......

 

Not surprised.

[Parky]

At the end of the day the counter Curbs argument is pure assumption, as he has never had the chance to be tested in Europe properly. He is a top level coach by any standard and people this late in the day with a crisis looming, nitpicking against Curbishley need their heads checked. bluebigrazz.gif

[NE5]

I like Curbs, think hes potentially a good manager, not great or top level, but potentially the same level as Martin Jol or Hughes for example.

 

As Jol (poster) says, noone knows how good or bad he is, its impossible to tell from his career because Charlton have never had the finances to take any kind of step up, and yet hes achieved moderate success without turning Charlton into an ugly, fighting, spitting, scrapping team that the likes of Allardyce, Hughes, Bruce, Moyes, Kinnear, etc, have done at various points of their career.

 

However, we need to look at what type of club we are before making any appointment. We need European football to sustain our finances, everyone knows this, even our incompetent chairman knows this and has us entering crap like the Intertoto because we have to. Therefore, why continually appoint managers with either shiite or nil records in Europe?

 

 

this is the problem with most of these anti board/Shepherd posts. They make points about the club which are fair then get carried away making things up that does nothing else other than ruin the credibility of any good points they do make.

 

Dalglish - Early exit from the UEFA Cup with Blackburn.

 

Gullit - Quarter finals of the Cup Winners Cup before being sacked by Chelsea.

 

Sir Bobby - Won the UEFA Cup with Ipswich, Won the European Cup Winners Cup with Barcelona, Poor performances in Europe with PSV.

 

Souness - Shite everywhere he went.

 

Roeder - No European experience.

 

Out of all the managers we've had since Keegan only Robson has any sort of European pedigree, I think tmonkey makes a valid point.

 

If you're going to post track records why not be honest and post the whole thing......? There's more to it than Europe.

 

 

Because tmonkey's point is "why continually appoint managers with either shiite or nil records in Europe?", to back up his statement I posted their track records in Europe, nobody mentioned their success at domestic level.

 

 

but the statement is bollocks, your own post shows it. Dalglish was manager of a great Liverpool team during the ban in europe too, and there is no way they would not have done well.

 

I also fail to understand the whole point of this, why appoint a manager who has a good record in europe when you first have to qualify ? Is this typical of some supporters nowadays that have a board they expect to qualify for europe as a right then claim they are "shit" ? The league is the bread and butter, believe it or not qualifying for europe is a degree of success and you don't achieve it unless you have earned it.

 

If you like, you could re-affirm your hilarious statement that Martins is better than Bellamy when he first came, if you wish to pursue this stalking of me and repeating statements you believe are correct or otherwise.

[Baggio]

I like Curbs, think hes potentially a good manager, not great or top level, but potentially the same level as Martin Jol or Hughes for example.

 

As Jol (poster) says, noone knows how good or bad he is, its impossible to tell from his career because Charlton have never had the finances to take any kind of step up, and yet hes achieved moderate success without turning Charlton into an ugly, fighting, spitting, scrapping team that the likes of Allardyce, Hughes, Bruce, Moyes, Kinnear, etc, have done at various points of their career.

 

However, we need to look at what type of club we are before making any appointment. We need European football to sustain our finances, everyone knows this, even our incompetent chairman knows this and has us entering crap like the Intertoto because we have to. Therefore, why continually appoint managers with either shiite or nil records in Europe?

 

 

this is the problem with most of these anti board/Shepherd posts. They make points about the club which are fair then get carried away making things up that does nothing else other than ruin the credibility of any good points they do make.

 

Dalglish - Early exit from the UEFA Cup with Blackburn.

 

Gullit - Quarter finals of the Cup Winners Cup before being sacked by Chelsea.

 

Sir Bobby - Won the UEFA Cup with Ipswich, Won the European Cup Winners Cup with Barcelona, Poor performances in Europe with PSV.

 

Souness - Shite everywhere he went.

 

Roeder - No European experience.

 

Out of all the managers we've had since Keegan only Robson has any sort of European pedigree, I think tmonkey makes a valid point.

 

If you're going to post track records why not be honest and post the whole thing......? There's more to it than Europe.

 

 

Because tmonkey's point is "why continually appoint managers with either shiite or nil records in Europe?", to back up his statement I posted their track records in Europe, nobody mentioned their success at domestic level.

 

 

I know what he said but the fact is there is absolutely no reason at all to narrow it down to Europe only, apart from the fact it suits some to do so.

 

Success in the PL and/or FA Cup definitely count. Even the League Cup was cited by some who were backing Martin O'Neill, but as I say, when it suits.......

 

Not surprised.

 

Where has he said it should be narrowed down to Europe only?

 

He's said "We need European football to sustain our finances, everyone knows this, even our incompetent chairman knows this and has us entering crap like the Intertoto because we have to. Therefore, why continually appoint managers with either shiite or nil records in Europe?"

 

Of course success in the Premiership and domestic cups count, but now we've got ourselves into such a financial mess that we need European football, a manager with success in Europe should be just as important as success in domestic competitions.

 

BTW O'Neill got Celtic to the final of the UFEA Cup beating Liverpool and Celtic, to think some supporters actually wanted Roeder here ahead of him!

[Baggio]

If you like, you could re-affirm your hilarious statement that Martins is better than Bellamy when he first came, if you wish to pursue this stalking of me and repeating statements you believe are correct or otherwise.

 

Um...I said Martins was better than Bellamy before they came to Newcastle.

 

Martins at Inter was a better player than Bellamy at Coventry, you obviously disagree but the stats back me up, even Bellamy himself said that he was poor in his time at Coventry so why you find that hard to grasp is beyond me, but you knew all along he'd be great didn't you?! you're what is known in the betting world as an 'after caller' you keep saying you made certain predictions about players after they have become top performers yet no proof exists of this, you claiming N'Zogbia would be a top player from the first time you seen him is a good one.

 

In truth the only things I've seen you predict lately is that Roeder would do a better job for us than O'Neill who's overrated (bad call ) and that we were better off getting Bernard back than signing Wayne Bridge who's overrated.

 

I didn't carry on the discussion with because as per usual you drag it down into an exchange of childish insults and name calling, me being the more mature out of the pair of us (and at half your age) decided to leave, not because you were right but because I'm above such name actions.

 

How much of Martins did you see at Inter btw?

[NE5]

I like Curbs, think hes potentially a good manager, not great or top level, but potentially the same level as Martin Jol or Hughes for example.

 

As Jol (poster) says, noone knows how good or bad he is, its impossible to tell from his career because Charlton have never had the finances to take any kind of step up, and yet hes achieved moderate success without turning Charlton into an ugly, fighting, spitting, scrapping team that the likes of Allardyce, Hughes, Bruce, Moyes, Kinnear, etc, have done at various points of their career.

 

However, we need to look at what type of club we are before making any appointment. We need European football to sustain our finances, everyone knows this, even our incompetent chairman knows this and has us entering crap like the Intertoto because we have to. Therefore, why continually appoint managers with either shiite or nil records in Europe?

 

 

this is the problem with most of these anti board/Shepherd posts. They make points about the club which are fair then get carried away making things up that does nothing else other than ruin the credibility of any good points they do make.

 

Dalglish - Early exit from the UEFA Cup with Blackburn.

 

Gullit - Quarter finals of the Cup Winners Cup before being sacked by Chelsea.

 

Sir Bobby - Won the UEFA Cup with Ipswich, Won the European Cup Winners Cup with Barcelona, Poor performances in Europe with PSV.

 

Souness - Shite everywhere he went.

 

Roeder - No European experience.

 

Out of all the managers we've had since Keegan only Robson has any sort of European pedigree, I think tmonkey makes a valid point.

 

If you're going to post track records why not be honest and post the whole thing......? There's more to it than Europe.

 

 

Because tmonkey's point is "why continually appoint managers with either shiite or nil records in Europe?", to back up his statement I posted their track records in Europe, nobody mentioned their success at domestic level.

 

 

I know what he said but the fact is there is absolutely no reason at all to narrow it down to Europe only, apart from the fact it suits some to do so.

 

Success in the PL and/or FA Cup definitely count. Even the League Cup was cited by some who were backing Martin O'Neill, but as I say, when it suits.......

 

Not surprised.

 

Where has he said it should be narrowed down to Europe only?

 

He's said "We need European football to sustain our finances, everyone knows this, even our incompetent chairman knows this and has us entering crap like the Intertoto because we have to. Therefore, why continually appoint managers with either shiite or nil records in Europe?"

 

Of course success in the Premiership and domestic cups count, but now we've got ourselves into such a financial mess that we need European football, a manager with success in Europe should be just as important as success in domestic competitions.

 

BTW O'Neill got Celtic to the final of the UFEA Cup beating Liverpool and Celtic, to think some supporters actually wanted Roeder here ahead of him!

 

David O'Leary got Leeds to the European Cup Semi Final. A far superior achievement altogether. Would you want him ?

 

 

[Baggio]

I like Curbs, think hes potentially a good manager, not great or top level, but potentially the same level as Martin Jol or Hughes for example.

 

As Jol (poster) says, noone knows how good or bad he is, its impossible to tell from his career because Charlton have never had the finances to take any kind of step up, and yet hes achieved moderate success without turning Charlton into an ugly, fighting, spitting, scrapping team that the likes of Allardyce, Hughes, Bruce, Moyes, Kinnear, etc, have done at various points of their career.

 

However, we need to look at what type of club we are before making any appointment. We need European football to sustain our finances, everyone knows this, even our incompetent chairman knows this and has us entering crap like the Intertoto because we have to. Therefore, why continually appoint managers with either shiite or nil records in Europe?

 

 

this is the problem with most of these anti board/Shepherd posts. They make points about the club which are fair then get carried away making things up that does nothing else other than ruin the credibility of any good points they do make.

 

Dalglish - Early exit from the UEFA Cup with Blackburn.

 

Gullit - Quarter finals of the Cup Winners Cup before being sacked by Chelsea.

 

Sir Bobby - Won the UEFA Cup with Ipswich, Won the European Cup Winners Cup with Barcelona, Poor performances in Europe with PSV.

 

Souness - Shite everywhere he went.

 

Roeder - No European experience.

 

Out of all the managers we've had since Keegan only Robson has any sort of European pedigree, I think tmonkey makes a valid point.

 

If you're going to post track records why not be honest and post the whole thing......? There's more to it than Europe.

 

 

Because tmonkey's point is "why continually appoint managers with either shiite or nil records in Europe?", to back up his statement I posted their track records in Europe, nobody mentioned their success at domestic level.

 

 

I know what he said but the fact is there is absolutely no reason at all to narrow it down to Europe only, apart from the fact it suits some to do so.

 

Success in the PL and/or FA Cup definitely count. Even the League Cup was cited by some who were backing Martin O'Neill, but as I say, when it suits.......

 

Not surprised.

 

Where has he said it should be narrowed down to Europe only?

 

He's said "We need European football to sustain our finances, everyone knows this, even our incompetent chairman knows this and has us entering crap like the Intertoto because we have to. Therefore, why continually appoint managers with either shiite or nil records in Europe?"

 

Of course success in the Premiership and domestic cups count, but now we've got ourselves into such a financial mess that we need European football, a manager with success in Europe should be just as important as success in domestic competitions.

 

BTW O'Neill got Celtic to the final of the UFEA Cup beating Liverpool and Celtic, to think some supporters actually wanted Roeder here ahead of him!

 

David O'Leary got Leeds to the European Cup Semi Final. A far superior achievement altogether. Would you want him ?

 

 

 

O'Leary spent a fortune getting them there and has since been a disaster at Villa.

 

It maybe hard for you to grasp but a level of common sense should be used when appointing a manager as well.

[NE5]

If you like, you could re-affirm your hilarious statement that Martins is better than Bellamy when he first came, if you wish to pursue this stalking of me and repeating statements you believe are correct or otherwise.

 

Um...I said Martins was better than Bellamy before they came to Newcastle.

 

Martins at Inter was a better player than Bellamy at Coventry, you obviously disagree but the stats back me up, even Bellamy himself said that he was poor in his time at Coventry so why you find that hard to grasp is beyond me, but you knew all along he'd be great didn't you?! you're what is known in the betting world as an 'after caller' you keep saying you made certain predictions about players after they have become top performers yet no proof exists of this, you claiming N'Zogbia would be a top player from the first time you seen him is a good one.

 

In truth the only things I've seen you predict lately is that Roeder would do a better job for us than O'Neill who's overrated (bad call ) and that we were better off getting Bernard back than signing Wayne Bridge who's overrated.

 

I didn't carry on the discussion with because as per usual you drag it down into an exchange of childish insults and name calling, me being the more mature out of the pair of us (and at half your age) decided to leave, not because you were right but because I'm above such name actions.

 

How much of Martins did you see at Inter btw?

 

http://www.toontastic.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=9429&st=20&p=214068entry214068

 

I don't care about Martins goal stats at Inter. If you cannot see or understand the difference between a player who is an out and out goalscorer and one who is a support striker, you have a problem and it isn't surprising your judgement is flawed.

 

What Martins did at Inter is irrelevant to what he does at Newcastle. Its a different country, a different culture, a different game and a diffierent league. I can't be bothered to go down the same route as over Luque and "adapting". However, I for one was very pleased when we bought Craig Bellamy, you will have to take my word on that but if you don't I'm not bothered....

 

If you wish to take into account our age difference, relative to opinions and judgements, now is the time to do it and there will be no more need for us to disagree.

 

The only thing I remember saying about Bridge is that if Bernard comes back as the player he was before there would be no point in buying Bridge, and also the club may not have the money anyway if they have spent their budget and was very much in favour of them not overspending at this moment in time, do you disagree with that ?

 

For the 2nd time, I have not said Roeder would do a better job than O'Neill, only that O'Neill has done nothing special to date and also to date Roeder has achieved the higher premiership position. [fact]. If you disagree, find it.

 

 

[NE5]

I like Curbs, think hes potentially a good manager, not great or top level, but potentially the same level as Martin Jol or Hughes for example.

 

As Jol (poster) says, noone knows how good or bad he is, its impossible to tell from his career because Charlton have never had the finances to take any kind of step up, and yet hes achieved moderate success without turning Charlton into an ugly, fighting, spitting, scrapping team that the likes of Allardyce, Hughes, Bruce, Moyes, Kinnear, etc, have done at various points of their career.

 

However, we need to look at what type of club we are before making any appointment. We need European football to sustain our finances, everyone knows this, even our incompetent chairman knows this and has us entering crap like the Intertoto because we have to. Therefore, why continually appoint managers with either shiite or nil records in Europe?

 

 

this is the problem with most of these anti board/Shepherd posts. They make points about the club which are fair then get carried away making things up that does nothing else other than ruin the credibility of any good points they do make.

 

Dalglish - Early exit from the UEFA Cup with Blackburn.

 

Gullit - Quarter finals of the Cup Winners Cup before being sacked by Chelsea.

 

Sir Bobby - Won the UEFA Cup with Ipswich, Won the European Cup Winners Cup with Barcelona, Poor performances in Europe with PSV.

 

Souness - Shite everywhere he went.

 

Roeder - No European experience.

 

Out of all the managers we've had since Keegan only Robson has any sort of European pedigree, I think tmonkey makes a valid point.

 

If you're going to post track records why not be honest and post the whole thing......? There's more to it than Europe.

 

 

Because tmonkey's point is "why continually appoint managers with either shiite or nil records in Europe?", to back up his statement I posted their track records in Europe, nobody mentioned their success at domestic level.

 

 

I know what he said but the fact is there is absolutely no reason at all to narrow it down to Europe only, apart from the fact it suits some to do so.

 

Success in the PL and/or FA Cup definitely count. Even the League Cup was cited by some who were backing Martin O'Neill, but as I say, when it suits.......

 

Not surprised.

 

Where has he said it should be narrowed down to Europe only?

 

He's said "We need European football to sustain our finances, everyone knows this, even our incompetent chairman knows this and has us entering crap like the Intertoto because we have to. Therefore, why continually appoint managers with either shiite or nil records in Europe?"

 

Of course success in the Premiership and domestic cups count, but now we've got ourselves into such a financial mess that we need European football, a manager with success in Europe should be just as important as success in domestic competitions.

 

BTW O'Neill got Celtic to the final of the UFEA Cup beating Liverpool and Celtic, to think some supporters actually wanted Roeder here ahead of him!

 

David O'Leary got Leeds to the European Cup Semi Final. A far superior achievement altogether. Would you want him ?

 

 

 

O'Leary spent a fortune getting them there and has since been a disaster at Villa.

 

It maybe hard for you to grasp but a level of common sense should be used when appointing a manager as well.

 

such as ?

 

Track record perhaps ?

 

Note - if you quote O'Neills track record, then Dalglish and Robson piss all over him, especially Dalglish.

 

It may be hard for you to grasp but hindsight is a wonderful thing.

 

Did you tell us at the time that Dalglish and Gullit would only reach FA Cup Finals at Newcastle  :roll:

 

A lot of people in this country were making O'Leary out to be the big deal at the time too.

 

 

[indi]

 

but the statement is bollocks, your own post shows it. Dalglish was manager of a great Liverpool team during the ban in europe too, and there is no way they would not have done well.

 

I also fail to understand the whole point of this, why appoint a manager who has a good record in europe when you first have to qualify ? Is this typical of some supporters nowadays that have a board they expect to qualify for europe as a right then claim they are "shit" ? The league is the bread and butter, believe it or not qualifying for europe is a degree of success and you don't achieve it unless you have earned it.

 

 

 

Erm, I really don't want to get dragged into this argument, but I feel the need to point out that to have a record in Europe these managers must also have qualified first. Therefore, it goes without saying that a manager with a consistant record in Europe, must also have a successful domestic pedigree. One is a necessary step to achieve the other.

 

I'm off to bed, enjoy your argument.

 

[Guest Matt10]

Don't think this has been posted anywhere else.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?view=DETAILS&grid=A1YourView&xml=/sport/2006/10/24/sfnwin24.xml

 

Excellent piece by Winter. Spot on IMO

[NE5]

 

but the statement is bollocks, your own post shows it. Dalglish was manager of a great Liverpool team during the ban in europe too, and there is no way they would not have done well.

 

I also fail to understand the whole point of this, why appoint a manager who has a good record in europe when you first have to qualify ? Is this typical of some supporters nowadays that have a board they expect to qualify for europe as a right then claim they are "shit" ? The league is the bread and butter, believe it or not qualifying for europe is a degree of success and you don't achieve it unless you have earned it.

 

 

 

Erm, I really don't want to get dragged into this argument, but I feel the need to point out that to have a record in Europe these managers must also have qualified first. Therefore, it goes without saying that a manager with a consistant record in Europe, must also have a successful domestic pedigree. One is a necessary step to achieve the other.

 

I'm off to bed, enjoy your argument.

 

 

indeed. But in the case of O'Neill for instance, and Souness, qualifying for europe with the teams they managed, is pretty much automatic and not an achievement at all. In fact, I didn't want to split hairs....but Souness had a good run in the European Cup with Rangers .....

 

 

[Baggio]

If you like, you could re-affirm your hilarious statement that Martins is better than Bellamy when he first came, if you wish to pursue this stalking of me and repeating statements you believe are correct or otherwise.

 

Um...I said Martins was better than Bellamy before they came to Newcastle.

 

Martins at Inter was a better player than Bellamy at Coventry, you obviously disagree but the stats back me up, even Bellamy himself said that he was poor in his time at Coventry so why you find that hard to grasp is beyond me, but you knew all along he'd be great didn't you?! you're what is known in the betting world as an 'after caller' you keep saying you made certain predictions about players after they have become top performers yet no proof exists of this, you claiming N'Zogbia would be a top player from the first time you seen him is a good one.

 

In truth the only things I've seen you predict lately is that Roeder would do a better job for us than O'Neill who's overrated (bad call ) and that we were better off getting Bernard back than signing Wayne Bridge who's overrated.

 

I didn't carry on the discussion with because as per usual you drag it down into an exchange of childish insults and name calling, me being the more mature out of the pair of us (and at half your age) decided to leave, not because you were right but because I'm above such name actions.

 

How much of Martins did you see at Inter btw?

 

http://www.toontastic.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=9429&st=20&p=214068entry214068

 

I don't care about Martins goal stats at Inter. If you cannot see or understand the difference between a player who is an out and out goalscorer and one who is a support striker, you have a problem and it isn't surprising your judgement is flawed.

 

What Martins did at Inter is irrelevant to what he does at Newcastle. Its a different country, a different culture, a different game and a diffierent league. I can't be bothered to go down the same route as over Luque and "adapting". However, I for one was very pleased when we bought Craig Bellamy, you will have to take my word on that but if you don't I'm not bothered....

 

If you wish to take into account our age difference, relative to opinions and judgements, now is the time to do it and there will be no more need for us to disagree.

 

The only thing I remember saying about Bridge is that if Bernard comes back as the player he was before there would be no point in buying Bridge, and also the club may not have the money anyway if they have spent their budget and was very much in favour of them not overspending at this moment in time, do you disagree with that ?

 

For the 2nd time, I have not said Roeder would do a better job than O'Neill, only that O'Neill has done nothing special to date and also to date Roeder has achieved the higher premiership position. [fact]. If you disagree, find it.

 

 

 

I agree what Martins did at Inter is irrelevant but that isn't the point I was making over there, you seem to have taken my comments totally out of context and presumed I thought Martins is better for us than Bellamy was when he first joined which just isn't the case, perhaps we've both got our wires crossed somewhere along the way.

 

If the fee was right I'd still take Bridge over Bernard, the chances of him ever finding the form he had here is slim and tbh I didn't ever rate him in the class of Bridge when he was here, money is tight but it's a position that we're desperate to fill, Ideally we'd have Bernard as back up to Bridge and move Babayaro on who (rumour has it) is on high wages for the performances he's putting in.

 

You did talk O'Neill down and well Roeder may have a higher Premiership finish under his belt (that is a fact), he also has the baggage of taking teams to relegation. I was never really in the pro O'Neill camp as I didn't like the style of football he played at Celtic, however one thing you can't take away from him is that he's improved every club he's been at.

 

Now I'm off to bed as I have an early start in the morning, I hope this clears up  any differences we have.

 

Feel free to PM me if it hasn't.

 

 

[Guest Texasmag]

Wow! What an article, and all of it true!

[GM]

Don't think this has been posted anywhere else.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?view=DETAILS&grid=A1YourView&xml=/sport/2006/10/24/sfnwin24.xml

 

Excellent piece by Winter. Spot on IMO

 

Good to see.

 

I'd agree with Winter about O'Neill as well. Always has a sneaking admiration for him whilst he was up here at Celtic. I'd not be surprised to discover in future that O'Neill was put off signing for NUFC because of the way FFS treated Sir Bobby.