Jonas Gutierrez

[David Icke - Son of God]

If that's the criteria we're using then Steve Harper is our most creative player because somewhere down the line he's thrown it, hoofed it or punched it.

 

Jonas is an athlete and nothing more - runs all day but little or no skill. Similar to Boumsong in that respect.

 

Ive no idea what you're waffling about atall really, or how you've come to that conclusion.

 

Jonas relieves pressure on his own, by bursting out of our half continually & going past several of their players. Or he makes runs for our other players to put long passes fowards through to him, to once again give us possession deeper in their half and relieve the rest of our team.

 

We've already seen what happens when he isnt there, thats whats so ridiculous about this whole argument. We boot it long, we lose the ball because we booted it long & then we get put under pressure again. This is repeated endlessly. Then people like you moan about us not "getting the ball down". Only for the one player who does get the ball down and run with it, to be the next main player you end up moaning about because he cant single handedly sprint past everyone AND finish or setup someone else instantly. I find it laughable really.

 

You're saying "Jonas does something which somewhere down the line leads to an attack" which i'm simply pointing out can be applied to Harper. Extreme? Yes, but i'm trying to point out how ridiculous your point about Jonas providing some form of attack threat is.

 

I saw us play the ball on the floor quite a lot tonight and we did so quite well. The player who was guilty more than anyone of losing the ball when on said floor was Jonas, despite the fact Guthrie was half asleep for most of the evening.

 

I also take issue with the term 'play' the ball along the floor with regards to Jonas, because to play the ball you've got to have some semblance of skill and be able do something with it. Jonas can't.

[JH]

And you're ignoring the 12 dozen times (I wish I was exagerating) he's taken on men since he got here and lost the ball when could have so easily have passed the ball.

 

And you're ignoring his total lack of finishing in the final third. And you're ignoring some of his overshot, pathetic crossing.

 

He's like that kid in GOAL, I find myself screaming "PASS!" over and over whenever he's got the ball. He just doesn't know when enough is enough and he should give it to someone else. It's too selfish at times, I don't care if once in a blue moon it pays off.

 

Except im not ignoring it atall.

Im just not focusing my entire viewpoint on his annoying flaws and ignoring all the strengths he used to get into those advanced positions in the first place.

 

Its a simple argument as i say. Id prefer a player who gets into the positions to miss in the first place, than one who doesnt.

 

You want a player who passes, but your basing your ideas on the assumption that theyd end up in the same positions Jonas finds himself in. Which is the big shortsighted issue. Taking for granted his strengths so you can focus on the cocks ups as i keep saying.

 

So you're allowed to only focus on the positives but I'm not allowed to focus only on the cock ups?

[ChezGiven]

There is almost a protestant/catholic level of polarisation on this. I've never known a player to that as much as jonas.

 

Scott Parker?

 

True and the overly critical cunts were wrong about him too.

[Jayson]

You're saying "Jonas does something which somewhere down the line leads to an attack" which i'm simply pointing out can be applied to Harper. Extreme? Yes, but i'm trying to point out how ridiculous your point about Jonas providing some form of attack threat is.

 

I saw us play the ball on the floor quite a lot tonight and we did so quite well. The player who was guilty more than anyone of losing the ball when on said floor was Jonas, despite the fact Guthrie was half asleep for most of the evening.

 

I also take issue with the term 'play' the ball along the floor with regards to Jonas, because to play the ball you've got to have some semblance of skill and be able do something with it. Jonas can't.

 

Well goalkicks do relieve pressure yes? but its not really down to the work of the goalkeeper is it. Its down to the opposition missing, so i dont really see the comparison or how that makes my point ridiculous.

 

To break it down.

 

Jonas> runs with ball> entire team move fowards> opposition moves backwards > loses ball/gets throwin/gets corner/gets freekick/ falls over> we end up in a better position.

 

Another player> plays long ball> we lose ball instantly> ball comes back quickly> team has no time to get fowards or and relief whatsoever> we remain under pressure

[David Icke - Son of God]

There is almost a protestant/catholic level of polarisation on this. I've never known a player to that as much as jonas.

 

Scott Parker?

 

True and the overly critical cunts were wrong about him too.

 

He was fucking shite, man!

 

More pirouettes than a night at the ballet. Made me feel fucking ill.

[Guest]

There is almost a protestant/catholic level of polarisation on this. I've never known a player to that as much as jonas.

 

Scott Parker?

 

True and the overly critical c***s were wrong about him too.

 

He was f***ing s****, man!

 

More pirouettes than a night at the ballet. Made me feel f***ing ill.

 

He came close to captaining us to relegation in 2006, he might actually succeed with West Ham.

[David Icke - Son of God]

You're saying "Jonas does something which somewhere down the line leads to an attack" which i'm simply pointing out can be applied to Harper. Extreme? Yes, but i'm trying to point out how ridiculous your point about Jonas providing some form of attack threat is.

 

I saw us play the ball on the floor quite a lot tonight and we did so quite well. The player who was guilty more than anyone of losing the ball when on said floor was Jonas, despite the fact Guthrie was half asleep for most of the evening.

 

I also take issue with the term 'play' the ball along the floor with regards to Jonas, because to play the ball you've got to have some semblance of skill and be able do something with it. Jonas can't.

 

Opposition misses> Harper hoofs ball out> Random player gets the ball and brings it forward> entire team move fowards> opposition moves backwards > loses ball/gets throwin/gets corner/gets freekick/ falls over> we end up in a better position.

 

 

FYP.

 

 

[David Icke - Son of God]

There is almost a protestant/catholic level of polarisation on this. I've never known a player to that as much as jonas.

 

Scott Parker?

 

True and the overly critical c***s were wrong about him too.

 

He was f***ing s****, man!

 

More pirouettes than a night at the ballet. Made me feel f***ing ill.

 

He came close to captaining us to relegation in 2006, he might actually succeed with West Ham.

 

I may have more time for him if he wasn't the embodiment of Souness' drive for "proper players". Oh, and if he didn't act like a cunt towards the end of his time here. Did he flick the crowd the Vs after a typically poor performance?

[Jayson]

 

So you're allowed to only focus on the positives but I'm not allowed to focus only on the cock ups?

 

I focus on the positives in response to people going over the top about his negatives. Ofcourse i saw him falling on his ass & flailing it over the bar in the final minutes. I agree that hes disasterous at finishing and wastes clear goalscoring chances. He could be better at crossing also yes. I like when he runs with the ball tbh. Either that or what, smith having shots from outside the area? We were hardly knocking it about with skill when Jonas wasnt on the ball, dunno what ppl are looking foward to instead of Jonas going for it. As i said earlier aswell, i can name 3 clear chances to score he created today, so he doesnt just lose the ball. Its an overexaggeration based on mainly his woeful finishing & the fact that hes normally 20 yards ahead of the rest of our players because hes gone on one of his bursting runs fowards. So ofcourse sometimes he loses it

[Jayson]

Opposition misses> Harper hoofs ball out> Random player gets the ball and brings it forward> entire team move fowards> opposition moves backwards > loses ball/gets throwin/gets corner/gets freekick/ falls over> we end up in a better position.

 

 

FYP.

 

 

 

 

I agreed that goalkicks are beneficial? why do you think people prefer goalkicks to corners, because it relieves pressure. If it involved skill from Harper to get us goalkicks instead of corners, then yes that would be a good useful benefit which he should get credit for. We're on the front foot, instead of defending a potential goal scoring situation for the opposition. But its not down to any skill of his own, so he doesnt.

 

What do you disagree with?

[Guest firetotheworks]

I still have the same opinion on him. He's mint at almost everything except his final product. Because he gets into positions to fuck it up so often, its annoying and quite often almost makes you forget that he got there in the first place. He's a strangely amazing defensive player because he relieves the defence and gives them an outlet literally every single time.

 

Like I said in the other thread. He's like a stupid friend that you've known for years. You know he's a bit daft but you cant help but love him.

[macca888]

Jonas is a frustrating player because as some on here have pointed out, he tends to give the ball away a lot and his crossing is abysmal but he has the ability to take a player on and get past him. That is why most teams in this division double up on him. Enrique needs to suppoort him more in attacking positions.

 

I would like to see Jonas operating down the right because by continually being forced inside by defenders results in the lack of quality balls into the forwards. With the likes of Carroll, Ranger and Ameobi all good in the air, we need two quality wingers to provide the crosses. Jonas has the pace to beat most full backs on the outside so play him on the right and give him specialist one to one coaching on crossing technique.

[Darth Crooks]

I still have the same opinion on him. He's mint at almost everything except his final product. Because he gets into positions to f*** it up so often, its annoying and quite often almost makes you forget that he got there in the first place. He's a strangely amazing defensive player because he relieves the defence and gives them an outlet literally every single time.

 

Like I said in the other thread. He's like a stupid friend that you've known for years. You know he's a bit daft but you cant help but love him.

 

Find it hard to disagree. I mean he has DEFINITE limitations. But to be as brazen to say he's devoid of talent/skill and offers nothing is a bit strange to me

[TRon]

That's the Newcastle spirit! We can't get anyone better, so he's good

 

And what do you propose to do about that?

Lets see if Lennon, Young, Arteta, Malouda etc want to have a go with us.

 

Just because we can't get Lennon or Young means I should be happy with Jonas?

 

Name a replacement you would be happy with.

 

I can't name one off the top of my head. But my point stands, it doesn't mean that I should b happy with him.

 

This.

 

It is an absolutely ridiculous view to take. You can't call a player shite because there is no viable alternative

 

Jonas is an awful footballer. Me saying this does not mean I believe we should go out and buy Aaron Lennon because I know that isn't possible. My opinion of one player is not altered because there isn't somebody better immediately available. I understand the team is stuck with him but you can fuck off if you think i'm going to pretend he's something he patently is not.

 

If you are an NUST member and this is your level of thinking I am seriously worried.

 

I'll take that as a complement coming from one of the members of the N-O intelligentsia

 

Well the members of the NUST intelligentsia could be heard loud and clear with their "You fat Cockney bastard get out of our club" renditon nationwide. All I will say is just do it. Provide answers instead of complaints.

 

It's not my job to provide answers. I will however point out that a certain player is fucking shite when it's obvious he is.

 

Exactly my point. Unconstructive criticism is fairly useless beyond a certain point.

 

I'm not the one going on the training ground and trying to teach this lad how to wrap his club foot around a fucking football ergo my criticism doesn't need to be constructive, just honest.

 

This is just a two-bit football messageboard and at the end of the day what I post on here is always going to be useless. It's just another string of words floating off into the dark bowels of the interweb, all of which will be forgotten in a few weeks time. I'm not writing this to be of use to anyone, i'm writing all this because I clearly like banging my head against a brick wall.

 

Yet you object to other opinions unless they are season ticket holders IIRC. Make your fucking mind up man. Why don't you fuck off to Skunkers and collect the necessary money from them rather than the "N-O intelligentsia"?

 

 

[Dave]

Play nice kids.

[nufcmichael]

Absolute rubbish today...

[Guest firetotheworks]

I might start calling him Marmite. Because Im cool, you see.

[ChezGiven]

Play nice kids.

 

Instead of Jonas?

[Dave]

Play nice kids.

 

Instead of Jonas?

 

 

At least they can finish their dinner.

[Guest firetotheworks]

Play nice kids.

 

Instead of Jonas?

 

 

At least they can finish their dinner.

 

Aye, but it doesn't give them the runs.

[Newcastle Fan]

He was really selfish at times today, instead of passing the ball the one of our player he kept trying to take on 3 or 4 of their players, his end product was awfull, really needs to get his act togther.

[Guest iliketoonarmy]

He was really selfish at times today, instead of passing the ball the one of our player he kept trying to take on 3 or 4 of their players, his end product was awfull, really needs to get his act togther.

 

A team needs selfish players, even for good teams because that's what football about. The issue is not being selfish or not, but his end product was awful most of the time and I hardly see he could improve much on that =(

[Golfmag]

he is one of the worst finishers I have seen at those level. He is also our most creative, attacking, talented and feared player and we are miles better with him in the team. Even last night, his ability to carry the ball away from our area to safety, rather than lumping it immediately to the opposition, was vital.

[womblemaster]

if i was a manager i would try to convert him to a central midfield attacking player.  its clear hes a poor winger.(cant cross)

 

Not sure if hes got enough intelligence to play in the centre tho....and i guess his lack of finishing would also be a problem.

 

tbh jg is starting to look like a luxury player that doesnt really fit into the team.

[nobby_solano]

i don't know what he was trying to do with that lay-off from lovenkrands at the end, was he trying to chip the keeper or something?

you'd think he'd have just leathered it after pete put it on a plate for him. that said like, i'd have rather lovenkrands had taken it left footed himself after creating the space