It isn't the structure as such that has failed.

[indi]

PRIMARY OBJECTIVE.

 

The goal of a football organisation is primarily to be successful on the pitch, this takes precedence over all other activities. Once all management fully understand this, other activities and proposals fall into place.

 

The DOF should be someone who has a wide contact footprint and understands the nature of the game Europe wide, ideally also some coaching or management experience in Europe. He would ideally be a senior figure who complements seniority and experience with good instinct. His core objective is to develop the footballing side in harness with the manager and be the managers main confidante in the boardroom.

 

His role should encompass overseeing the transfer strategy by having a team of scouts and consultants under his guidance. They should be briefed on the 'mix' of players targeted by him and the manager for any given window. He should have one chief scout per top tier European league and a 'spotter' in every serious league in the world. Regular briefings should take place including the manager at monthly meetings to collect data and give direction.

 

Mishandling this appointment (DOF) seriously undermines any delusions about being like Arsenal.

 

Discuss.

 

Leeds were pretty successful on the pitch...

 

 

 

...for a while.

 

 

 

Their wages to income ration was over 90% near the end. Ours has peaked at 68% or thereabouts. The corollations end there. They also didn't actually own some of their top players and were loaning them under some strange financial instrument, therefore losing out on real re-sale value iirc.

 

Either, what happens on the pitch "takes precedence over all other activities" or it doesn't.

 

Leeds is a perfect example of why that statement is fundamentally flawed.

 

What happens on the pitch is very important, but not to the detriment of the future of the club.

 

You clearly know nothing about what happened at Leeds.

 

You clearly are not understanding what I'm saying.

 

Leeds was an example of where what happened on the pitch was given "precedence over all other activities" and it was to the detriment of that club's future.

 

How they went about doing that, is neither here, nor there.

 

Here's a better example of over loading player spend to the detriment of the club...

 

"The property of the Westfalenstadion, originally belonging to the city of Dortmund and later sold to the club Borussia Dortmund, was sold to a real estate trust in 2002 when the club was facing serious financial problems. Borussia Dortmund intended to repurchase the stadium gradually up to 2017, but was not able to pay the regular rates in spring 2005."

 

 

Are you trying to filibuster me?

 

What relevance has anything you've posted in response got to do with the point I was making?

 

 

 

Filli what?!! 

 

Dortmund overspent so much on players they couldn't cover it and sold the stadium and leased it back. Wildly careless and a solid example of mishandling of over loading player purchases against other factors.

 

And that supports your argument and not mine in what way?

[NE5]

PRIMARY OBJECTIVE.

 

The goal of a football organisation is primarily to be successful on the pitch, this takes precedence over all other activities. Once all management fully understand this, other activities and proposals fall into place.

 

The DOF should be someone who has a wide contact footprint and understands the nature of the game Europe wide, ideally also some coaching or management experience in Europe. He would ideally be a senior figure who complements seniority and experience with good instinct. His core objective is to develop the footballing side in harness with the manager and be the managers main confidante in the boardroom.

 

His role should encompass overseeing the transfer strategy by having a team of scouts and consultants under his guidance. They should be briefed on the 'mix' of players targeted by him and the manager for any given window. He should have one chief scout per top tier European league and a 'spotter' in every serious league in the world. Regular briefings should take place including the manager at monthly meetings to collect data and give direction.

 

Mishandling this appointment (DOF) seriously undermines any delusions about being like Arsenal.

 

Discuss.

 

Leeds were pretty successful on the pitch...

 

 

 

...for a while.

 

 

 

Their wages to income ration was over 90% near the end. Ours has peaked at 68% or thereabouts. The corollations end there. They also didn't actually own some of their top players and were loaning them under some strange financial instrument, therefore losing out on real re-sale value iirc.

 

Either, what happens on the pitch "takes precedence over all other activities" or it doesn't.

 

Leeds is a perfect example of why that statement is fundamentally flawed.

 

What happens on the pitch is very important, but not to the detriment of the future of the club.

 

You clearly know nothing about what happened at Leeds.

 

You clearly are not understanding what I'm saying.

 

Leeds was an example of where what happened on the pitch was given "precedence over all other activities" and it was to the detriment of that club's future.

 

How they went about doing that, is neither here, nor there.

 

Here's a better example of over loading player spend to the detriment of the club...

 

"The property of the Westfalenstadion, originally belonging to the city of Dortmund and later sold to the club Borussia Dortmund, was sold to a real estate trust in 2002 when the club was facing serious financial problems. Borussia Dortmund intended to repurchase the stadium gradually up to 2017, but was not able to pay the regular rates in spring 2005."

 

 

Are you trying to filibuster me?

 

What relevance has anything you've posted in response got to do with the point I was making?

 

 

 

Filli what?!! 

 

Dortmund overspent so much on players they couldn't cover it and sold the stadium and leased it back. Wildly careless and a solid example of mishandling of over loading player purchases against other factors.

 

And that supports your argument and not mine in what way?

 

stop fuckin squabbling you two and tell me that I'm spot on or something.

 

 

[NJS]

I would also question the fact that nearly all the players signed come from Spain (ie via Jiminez) - seems too specialised/insular/narrow to me.

 

 

[Guest Howaythetoon]

The structure has failed because every objective or goal of this structure hasn't been delivered or built on. Admittedly it hasn't been in operation that long in football terms but if we are to look at it based on failure vs success you'd be mad to say it has been a success, even a small success.

 

People keep pointing to what appears to be good players that this system have brought to the club. That may be the case that these players are or will indeed be good players for us, but that's nothing to crow about not when the depth of the squad still remains extremely shallow in both numbers and true quality with several key areas deeply understrength, left-back, central midfield and up front for example which we are already finding out with injuries or suspensions to Enrique, Barton, Guthrie, Viduka and Martins.

 

This system has also allowed Michael Owen's contract issue to drag on and on when both the then manager and player were committed to a new deal.

 

The system has effectively failed to support the manager's critical view on a key player and subsequently failed to recognise Owen's true value to the club which as things stand he is not only our best player, he's also the most likely to get us goals.

 

They didn't have to renew his contract by the way, that isn't the issue. They have neglected this very critical area or taking it lightly. That doesn't bode confidence I'm afraid.

 

This system has also sold players without either having replacements in first or replacing them afterwards.

 

I won't go into undermining KK but this system is responsible for the resignation of the one man capable as he was proving of making something happen with a team that when he arrived was heading down and looking anything but a team into one that had genuine hopes for the season.

 

Whatever the rights and wrongs that whole saga has been handled appallingly.

 

The system has failed, as an entire infrastructure and as elements in the infrastructure.

 

How anyone can deny it is beyond me and I'm one of those who is happy with the players we've signed.

[Mowen]

This system has also allowed Michael Owen's contract issue to drag on and on when both the then manager and player were committed to a new deal.

 

Snipped either side of that. I don't have time to reply to it all, but how can you possibly believe that this was the case?

[Guest gggg]

Spurs have a DOF (one of the best apparently!) and a manager who has worked with one all his career and yet it doesnt work there either and their fans on their forums are calling for a 'proper' manager.

 

I also hope this and developments elsewhere will see the end of of directors of football in England, I suspect that Jol would still be in a job with us if he'd been in charge of transfers and been backed as Ramos has.

 

The Director of Football - The supporters of the system say it works in Europe so therefore is the right way to run a club.  It's detractors say that it's just another level where politics and agendas can be made.  It's safe to say that since Comolli has took over the overall transfer deals of the club have been bizarre.  Positions that need to be filled, seem to be simply ignored time and time again.

 

Sounds familiar.

[Parky]

Spurs have a DOF (one of the best apparently!) and a manager who has worked with one all his career and yet it doesnt work there either and their fans on their forums are calling for a 'proper' manager.

 

I also hope this and developments elsewhere will see the end of of directors of football in England, I suspect that Jol would still be in a job with us if he'd been in charge of transfers and been backed as Ramos has.

 

The Director of Football - The supporters of the system say it works in Europe so therefore is the right way to run a club.  It's detractors say that it's just another level where politics and agendas can be made.  It's safe to say that since Comolli has took over the overall transfer deals of the club have been bizarre.  Positions that need to be filled, seem to be simply ignored time and time again.

 

Sounds familiar.

 

One of the reasons it works in Europe is that they prefer collective decision making. Whereas in out football culture we prefer one man to go with his vision.

[Neil]

Spurs have a DOF (one of the best apparently!) and a manager who has worked with one all his career and yet it doesnt work there either and their fans on their forums are calling for a 'proper' manager.

 

I also hope this and developments elsewhere will see the end of of directors of football in England, I suspect that Jol would still be in a job with us if he'd been in charge of transfers and been backed as Ramos has.

 

The Director of Football - The supporters of the system say it works in Europe so therefore is the right way to run a club.  It's detractors say that it's just another level where politics and agendas can be made.  It's safe to say that since Comolli has took over the overall transfer deals of the club have been bizarre.  Positions that need to be filled, seem to be simply ignored time and time again.

 

Sounds familiar.

 

One of the reasons it works in Europe is that they prefer collective decision making. Whereas in out football culture we prefer one man to go with his vision.

 

Take the word "football" out of that statement and it seems like the middle of a hotly-contested synoptic political debate!

 

Now I'll get back to conforming to student stereotypes and wasting some money or something like that.

[Ericz]

Ashley just wants $$$.

 

Look at the price he quotes for sale

 

"According to the sale documents, Ashley wants to recoup his entire investment, plus take a massive profit. - £480m.'

 

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=572848&sec=england&cc=4716

 

What he said about loving Newcastle United are all a pack of lies. It is typical PR stuffs to be honest.

 

 

[Guest ryunufc]

Parky-you missed an important point-1) should the DOF appoint the Manager or the other way round.

 

Why do Arsenal,Chelsea,Man Utd,A Villa consider such a person is not necessary. 

 

This is my understanding about DoF. The advantage of having a DoF/Sporting Director is that you make an effort to maintain continuity. It is his responsibility to look after the club's long term objective (say the club wants to challenge for the title within 5 years) whilst the manager/head coach/ the Allenatore attempts to meet the short term objective (say first season to finish minimum 9th, second 6th, third  to challenge for the top 4 and so on..). DoF is indirectly responsible for the results on the pitch, and thus he has to consider to what the head coach wants and do his best to assist him because short term success is one step towards completing the long term objective. At the same time he has to ensure that the club do not overspend (plan the spending in each transfer window) and sometime has to make decision which is for the greater good of the club in the long term. I do not know if Wise's job scope is only restricted to finding players for the manager, from my understanding a DoF has bigger responsibility than that, thus it is possible that he has greater authority than the head coach.

 

The DoF has to be the man who appoints the head coach because he would stay for longer period of time at the club, even when the coach leaves, but of course he is not unsackable. He chooses a head coach who he is comfortable to work with and has similar philosophy. In case he makes some bad head coach appointments and/or player signings (because it is impossible that anyone can get the right person all the time and that not every player signing could turn up to be a success) he has to minimize the consequences (financial is one of them) and then find a way to get the club right back on track towards pursuing the long term objective.

 

You may let the manager choose the DoF, but you are losing the purpose of having that role in the first place when the manager leaves and the man he chose decides to follow him. That would be not much different with having a manager in full control. Each time a new manager comes in he would like his own philosophy to be applied, meaning the club has to start from zero again and this would cost the club alot more, whereas if you have a DoF and the head coach leaves, you appoint someone else (presumably someone more capable) and try to continue with the progress.

 

How I see it, Man United and Arsenal may not need such position because not only their managers are exceptional but they also have been in their job for very long time, and if they dont need it maybe because they have already done things that a DoF would do. They try to maintain continuity, one example is by replacing important players at the right time, they also are not afraid to introduce youngsters and place strong emphasize on players development.  And we can see from some of Sir Alex signings that he is trying to prepare Man United for life after his retirement. Chelsea brought in Avram Grant but they made a common mistake by hiring a DoF after Mourinho was already there, he was Abramovich's choice and Mourinho already had his own way to manage and then someone he barely knew and likely has different ideas came in to work with him, conflict was waiting to happen. I do not know about Villa's case, O'Neill is doing very well and has good relationship with Lerner, but we do not know what will happen next month or next year.

 

To me, it is just a different approach to run a club and there is no guarantee you can get instant or better results with either one of them. For every Man United there is Nottingham Forest, for every Bayern Munich there is Dortmund. At the end of the day, the people in charge will make most of the difference rather than their job titles or the overall structure. But not everyone is lucky enough to have someone like Sir Alex or Wenger and not many can enjoy steady progress like Moyes or O'Neill. I think Sir Bobby has a very good point when he says Dennis Wise will never be accepted, the way I see it, it was the similar mistake with Chelsea's.

[Lotus]

I think it's imperative to have someone on the Board who knows football though. I had appreciation for the old board (as stated previously) but at times their decisions regarding the managers was just stupifyingly ignorant. Sacking SBR after 4 games and replacing him with Souness!!!!! A man that everyone could see, and i mean everyone accept whoever appointed him, was going to clash with Bellamy (our best player imo) and ruin the team. I can't for the life of me imagine, Peter Kenyon, David Dein making that kind of decision. And then they compounded that by replacing him with Roeder. The result was utterly predictable. What you learn from that is, whoever on the old Board made these decisions, they weren't well informed. To help with that, you employ someone to advise on these matters. Someone who knows football. You don't have to give them the power to make the appointment but you should listen to what they have to say.

Once the managers in place then you can make appointments with his approval for scouting, negotiating, etc. The youth team needn't be in the 1st team managers remit and so the appointments for those posts can be made independantly of the manager.

As has been said, the players we've bought in this summer all look good value for money, we got good prices for who we sold too, no one can argue with that. I'm sure KK was happy with Guti, Colo and Guthrie. Xisco looks ok for the money but i can't say much after 1 game. Same for Bassong.

But the very idea that KK had to report to Wise is a f**king joke (if true) wtf has Wise done to deserve that kind of power?

[Skirge]

When trying to do it the way we have been you need to make sure you snap up the young talent and do not miss out on top ones..

 

Magpies let surprise package Zaki slip through their hands

 

Sep 18 2008 by Mark Douglas, The Journal

http://www.journallive.co.uk/nufc/newcastle-united-news/2008/09/18/magpies-let-surprise-package-zaki-slip-through-their-hands-61634-21844053/