Fans to blame? F*ck off!

[Big Geordie]

What Ashley discovered, belatedly, is that too much about Newcastle is concerned with an excessive clamour for swift success and excessive emotional investment in the club. A woman interviewed on Match of the Day suggested her life had been ruined by recent events at St James' Park. The TV pundit Mark Lawrenson's gentle reproach that she was somewhat overstating things, resulted, by Monday, with opprobrium being heaped upon him. Over-expectancy inevitably leads to panic moves, a heavy turnover of managers – seven in the 11 years since Keegan was last at St James' Park – and purchasesof too many modest players.

 

So why would any buyer look at Newcastle now? HBOS found a saviour in Lloyds TSB. No-boss Newcastle are not so fortunate. It is a buyers' market. There is a fond belief that sugar sheikhs are queuing up to ride in from the desert to get their hands on the Premier League brand. Even if that were true, Liverpool would be the more treasured prize. Newcastle's plight is not helped by the stance of their more vocal followers. Individually they may, indeed, be among the game's most passionate fans. As a mob, they hardly contribute to the best marketing package. Neither does Ashley's response to them that he was "now a dad who can't take his kids to a football game". Almost certainly he overstates his concerns, but it is scarcely the most attractive selling point.

 

In the end, Ashley's so-called surrender may turn out to be a pyrrhic victory for Newcastle's followers, who should have taken a lesson from the Old West of Randy Lerner's homeland. You don't find too many volunteers to become the new sheriff when the previous incumbent has just been run out of town.

 

From today's Independent. It'll probably be dismissed as the views of an outsider, but the fact is, any buyer of the club is more than likely going to be an outsider. We really need Geordie businessmen to stand up and be counted.

 

I'm sick of all this bullshit about the fans demanding instant success. It's complete rot and yet it's wheeled out time and time again by the media and fans of other clubs. Most of us want to see the team playing good football and progressing. This demanding titles/cups is nothing more than a red herring to shift the blame onto the supporters.

[Teasy]

You can't judge players on 5 games or less - this time last year people were quite pleased with Rozenhal and Cacapa and Jonas could still be a Cordone.

 

Guthrie should only be a squad player which we need more of but if he plays more than 30 games a season for the next 3 years we will get nowhere near Europe.

 

 

 

How can you compare Cordone to Gutierrez?

 

Guttierez for all his fantastic workrate created the one chance at Arsenal in his first 3 games - Cordone scored on one of his - pretty similar.

 

Being a hypocrite it took me seeing Ginola for 5 minutes to know he was something wonderful.

 

 

 

Comparing one goal to one assist doesn't really work, you could do the same and say that Gutierrez compared to Stephane Guivarch , look at the actual performances, Cordone had one good game and even then he didn't play on the level Gutierrez has.

[Teasy]

What Ashley discovered, belatedly, is that too much about Newcastle is concerned with an excessive clamour for swift success and excessive emotional investment in the club.

 

Not wanting our manager to be treated like crap to the point where he walks away is a clamour for swift success?    Bunch of fucking clowns just like every other rag out there.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

If we are guilty of anything it is that we care about our club and when provoked will turn out in our droves and let our feelings be known. This isn't anything new though, fans have marched onto SJP many a time long before Sky and their cameras were around.

 

Newcastle fans have always been militant in that way if you like.

 

When Hughie Gallacher was sold there were demonstrations, supporter gatherings in bars and town halls, campaigns in the Chronicle and massive unrest not too dissimilar to today. 67,000 fans turned up to a midweek evening game (our highest ever attendance) to witness Hughie's return with Chelsea where fans paid their homage to their former star and let the Directors Committee know in no uncertain terms what they all thought about the way he had been treated and his sale. Similar to the gathering against Hull... just replace Hughie with Keegan and the Directors Committee with Mike Ashley and Co.

 

Then there was the sale of Andy Cole that prompted fans once again to march to SJP demanding answers. When KK left back in Jan 97 fans again went to SJP.

 

There were also demonstrations against Freddy Shepherd a few times.

 

Back in the 80s fans demonstrated and protested against the old board too. In the early days of the club fans would buy fruit outside of SJP to throw at the team if they underperformed. Booing was common place at SJP as far back as the late 1800s and has always been a tool of fans to show their strength of feeling.

 

Conversely when something good happens fans also march to SJP to let their feelings be known like when Dalglish arrived, or Gullit and Sir Bobby. Then there was Shearer's unveiling and later Owen's.

 

This is as much a part of the club's traditions and culture as number 9s and failure.

 

Fans will never change and will always march onto SJP to let their feelings be known, whether it be to kick-off over the loss of a manager or to welcome a Michael Owen to Toon.

 

There are not many clubs in England with fans like this and rather than try and dumb it down the club should be tapping into it like Keegan masterfully did on the steps of SJP confronting fans over the sale of Cole.

 

Newcastle fans need constant communication with their club, they need to be made to feel far more involved than mere customers on a match day and a lot of the anger from fans stems from the total lack of communication on September the 1st and 2nd when all around were claiming their hero had been sacked or resigned.

 

I'm not saying Ashley or any of his boardroom should have done what KK had done over the sale of Cole and confronted fans personally, but at a club like this some form of communication would have tempered a great deal of the unrest, my own especially.

 

That never materialised and only served to inflame feelings further resulting in the protests at home to Hull.

 

This could have all been avoided though and fans could have been won around with some communication, truth and knowledge of what the heck is going on and what will be done to fix things.

 

Like Beardsley said, we can be a forgiving bunch. Ask Freddy Shepherd and co.

 

Ashley and Co totally undermined the sense of feeling fans have for their club and the lengths fans will go to in showing their true feelings when provoked.

 

Blame fans all you like but fans are only doing what is natural and what they've been doing since the club was formed back in 1882.

 

To deny it and condemn it would be following Ashley and co's total lack of understanding of fans' feelings for their club.

[Thespence]

MORE strife at Newcastle. More mirth nationwide. More works of gleefully-penned fiction from slavering, slack-jawed journalists darn sarf.

 

Let’s get this straight once and for all: nobody knows better than their supporters just how big a joke the Magpies have become.

 

That’s their supporters. NOT the ambulance-chasing charvers who descend on St James’s Park, looking like extras from a George Romero film, on any given midweek afternoon to perform for Sky Sports News, and might only ever get hold of a season ticket through a probation officer or social worker.

 

That’s the supporters who continue to hurl money, credit crunch or no credit crunch, into the emotional black hole that is Newcastle United.

 

Strange, then, that I keep reading about those same real supporters being delusional glory-hunters no more fanatical than the next set of, er, fans.

 

Strange also because there is a basic contradiction in the following two-pronged accusation now routinely levelled at Tynesiders and their accursed football club.

 

“Newcastle fans aren’t particularly loyal and Newcastle aren’t a big club because they haven’t won anything for years.”

 

If hackneyed of Hackney, or any other journalist likely to turn up on Sky’s Sunday Supplement, still doesn’t see the contradiction, he should ask himself another question . . .

 

What could be more loyal than 50,000 fans turning up every fortnight (and a large proportion also attending away games) to watch an unsuccessful, insignificant football team?

 

Oh, and here are two more teasers . . .

 

If the measure of a club is recent trophies won, does that make Portsmouth bigger than Newcastle? And if so, why do Newcastle attract so much more media coverage — in good times as well as bad — than Portsmouth?

 

On the basis that a club is nothing without its fans, I believe fans maketh the club.

 

And few who have encountered Newcastle supporters on their travels can deny they are a special breed, well used to having to make their own entertainment.

 

It seems clear that Matthew Syed, who joined the Geordie-baiting brigade last week in his blog in The Times, has not crossed paths with those supporters.

 

If he had, he would know they are neither “self-pitying” nor “self-indulgent” but self-deprecating in the extreme.

 

He’d also know they are not “deluded”, but painfully aware of their place in football’s pecking order, expecting only that their manager — Messiah or not — be allowed to manage and perhaps challenge for a top six (none but the aforementioned camera-friendly cretins expecting a top four) league finish.

 

He’d appreciate that, having toasted Mike Ashley on the terraces only three weeks ago, those supporters’ only real beef with United’s owner is his belief that a part-time employee (who just happens to be Dennis Wise) is more important than his manager (who just happened to be Kevin Keegan).

 

And he’d certainly not be peddling another myth: that Sam Allardyce was run out of Toon by “agitating” fans.

 

Were they the same fans who chanted “Big Sam’s Black and White Army” as he left the pitch after his last game in charge?

 

Funny, but I don’t remember Syed — don’t remember anyone, come to think of it — ridiculing Liverpool fans for their similarly strident protests against absentee owners.

 

Owners who recently sanctioned the purchases of messrs Keane, Riera and Dossena for well over £30 million, that is.

 

I’ll stop short of pigeonholing Syed as easily as he does every member of the third biggest football fanbase in the country.

 

No, my problem with him isn’t that he’s a former ping-pong player turned failed politician.

 

It isn’t that his Home Counties-bred, Oxford-educated, broadsheet-employed existence gives him no obvious qualification to pass comment on the supporters of Newcastle United.

 

It isn’t even that for a left-winger so right on that he reckons anyone who says black people are naturally better sprinters has a racial agenda, his stereotyping of the Geordie Nation (I use that term knowingly) smacks of something not too dissimilar.

 

No, my problem with Syed is that he appears to know absolutely bugger all about football.

 

It was four years ago this coming week that he wrote that a Premier League manager had “endured criticism before only to bounce back, but there will be no renaissance this time”.

 

That manager was Sir Alex Ferguson.

 

“His continued presence” at Manchester United, according to Syed, was “jeopardising its future”.

 

Yes, he meant that Sir Alex Ferguson.

 

I guess Syed got a response to that particular article too. Job done, in that sense, both then and now.

 

But I’d like to thank him for writing off Newcastle United anyway.

 

Given his track record, it’s the most encouraging thing I’ve read since Keegan disappeared.

 

http://www.sundaysun.co.uk/news/columnists/2008/09/21/hacks-take-heed-toon-fans-are-not-deluded-79310-21862532/

[Spider Jerusalem]

The squad hasn't improved this summer?

 

The first team has improved - when players are fit.  The squad is just as thin as it was last season perhaps even thinner, as is being shown by the subs on the bench.  Football isn't about having eleven goodish players and that's it any more.

[SteveMc]

That Sunday Sun piece is absolutely brilliant.  Spot on

[Teasy]

To be fair the squad's been strengthened as well:

 

Out:-

 

James Milner

Abdoulaye Faye

Emre

Ramage

Carr

 

In-

 

Gutierrez

Guthrie

Bassong

Coloccini

Xisco

Gonzales

 

Even in pure numbers we've strengthened slightly (though greatly in quality).  But consider Emre almost never played, Carr never played at all and Ramage was useless the squad has been strengthened quite a bit.  Still it could have been so much better had we spent a bit of money on left back and right back cover.

[NJS]

To be fair the squad's been strengthened as well:

 

Out:-

 

James Milner

Abdoulaye Faye

Emre

Ramage

Carr

 

In-

 

Gutierrez

Guthrie

Bassong

Coloccini

Xisco

Gonzales

 

Even in pure numbers we've strengthened slightly (though greatly in quality).  But consider Emre almost never played, Carr never played at all and Ramage was useless the squad has been strengthened quite a bit.  Still it could have been so much better had we spent a bit of money on left back and right back cover.

 

You missed Rozenhal as an out - just to keep the numbers argument correct.

 

As I've said elsewhere theres a desperate assumption that the new players are good - I don;t think there that much of an improvement overall - certainly not enough to improve a team from 13th to anywhere near the top 6.

 

 

[Spider Jerusalem]

To be fair the squad's been strengthened as well:

 

Out:-

 

James Milner

Abdoulaye Faye

Emre

Ramage

Carr

 

In-

 

Gutierrez

Guthrie

Bassong

Coloccini

Xisco

Gonzales

 

Even in pure numbers we've strengthened.  But consider Emre almost never played, Carr never played at all and Ramage was useless the squad has been strengthened quite a bit.  Still it could have been so much better had we spent a bit of money on left back and right back cover.

 

Rozenthal and Triosi also gone - so down in numbers really.  I've said before that we have in real terms strengethend by replacing the deadwood and most of the sick notes, but the lack of full back cover is crucifying the team at the minute - we either play a reserve centre half there or a left winger who does'nt really want to be here, never mind playing out of position.

 

Plus, any team that in most likelyhood has the name Nicky Butt as one of the first on the team sheet is really going to struggle.

[Spider Jerusalem]

To be fair the squad's been strengthened as well:

 

Out:-

 

James Milner

Abdoulaye Faye

Emre

Ramage

Carr

 

In-

 

Gutierrez

Guthrie

Bassong

Coloccini

Xisco

Gonzales

 

Even in pure numbers we've strengthened.  But consider Emre almost never played, Carr never played at all and Ramage was useless the squad has been strengthened quite a bit.  Still it could have been so much better had we spent a bit of money on left back and right back cover.

 

Rozenthal and Triosi also gone - so down in numbers really.  I've said before that we have in real terms strengethend by replacing the deadwood and most of the sick notes, but the lack of full back cover is crucifying the team at the minute - we either play a reserve centre half there or a left winger who does'nt really want to be here, never mind playing out of position.

 

Plus, any team that in most likelyhood has the name Nicky Butt as one of the first on the team sheet is really going to struggle.

 

Plus we haven't got a right winger either.

[Teasy]

 

Rozenthal and Triosi also gone - so down in numbers really.  I've said before that we have in real terms strengethend by replacing the deadwood and most of the sick notes, but the lack of full back cover is crucifying the team at the minute - we either play a reserve centre half there or a left winger who does'nt really want to be here, never mind playing out of position.

 

Plus, any team that in most likelyhood has the name Nicky Butt as one of the first on the team sheet is really going to struggle.

 

Rozehnal wasn't here for the second half of last season, that's why I haven't included him.  Troisi is in the same league as the likes of Zamblera and Ranger to me as well which is why I didn't include him.  Even including the likes of Carr is touch and go   I agree we should have strengthened even more though.

[ChezGiven]

http://www.danoconnor.com/images/golf/golf_cartoon_shoot_self_in_foot.jpg

 

 

Sorry.

[Dave]

Ended the season needing a left back, even if just for cover. Didn't buy one.

Ended the season needing a right back, even if just for cover. Didn't buy one.

Ended the season needing a quality central midfielder because Butt and Geremi are fucking shite and Barton's future was up in the air. Didn't buy one.

Ended the season needing to rid the wage bill of wasters like Ameobi and Smith because they offered nothing to the team (they weren't playing when we started winning) and prevented other strikers coming in. Apparently. Got rid of neither.

Ended the season needing a good centre-half to partner our best centre-half. We signed one. Then sold the other.

Ended the season needing a replacement for Milner because he wasn't good enough. Sold him and didn't replace him.

 

I'm happy enough with the individuals that came in (so far) but in the context of the squad as a whole the window was a failure because we failed to address long-standing and urgent issues.

 

Who takes responsibility for that?

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Ended the season needing a left back, even if just for cover. Didn't buy one.

Ended the season needing a right back, even if just for cover. Didn't buy one.

Ended the season needing a quality central midfielder because Butt and Geremi are f***ing s**** and Barton's future was up in the air. Didn't buy one.

Ended the season needing to rid the wage bill of wasters like Ameobi and Smith because they offered nothing to the team (they weren't playing when we started winning) and prevented other strikers coming in. Apparently. Got rid of neither.

Ended the season needing a good centre-half to partner our best centre-half. We signed one. Then sold the other.

Ended the season needing a replacement for Milner because he wasn't good enough. Sold him and didn't replace him.

 

I'm happy enough with the individuals that came in (so far) but in the context of the squad as a whole the window was a failure because we failed to address long-standing and urgent issues.

 

Who takes responsibility for that?

 

KK, he was the manager.

 

Oh wait...

[ChezGiven]

Its probably fair to say that players still at the club, who shouldnt be, are there because KK wanted them and gaps in the playing staff are the fault of the recruitment team.

[Guest LucaAltieri]

To be fair the squad's been strengthened as well:

 

Out:-

 

James Milner

Abdoulaye Faye

Emre

Ramage

Carr

 

In-

 

Gutierrez

Guthrie

Bassong

Coloccini

Xisco

Gonzales

 

Even in pure numbers we've strengthened.  But consider Emre almost never played, Carr never played at all and Ramage was useless the squad has been strengthened quite a bit.  Still it could have been so much better had we spent a bit of money on left back and right back cover.

 

Rozenthal and Triosi also gone - so down in numbers really.  I've said before that we have in real terms strengethend by replacing the deadwood and most of the sick notes, but the lack of full back cover is crucifying the team at the minute - we either play a reserve centre half there or a left winger who does'nt really want to be here, never mind playing out of position.

 

Plus, any team that in most likelyhood has the name Nicky Butt as one of the first on the team sheet is really going to struggle.

 

Triosi wasn't anywhere near the first team and Roz had been shipped out on loan prior to being sold. So all depends what counts as losing a player, really.

[TRon]

I hope KK's enjoying his time in Spain. Maybe Freddie Shepherd will give him the manager's job if he buys Mallorca?

[TRon]

I hope KK's enjoying his time in Spain. Maybe Freddie Shepherd will give him the manager's job if he buys Mallorca?

 

Where's the confirmation that he's even in Spain?

 

And why is it an issue if he is? He no longer manages this club.

 

You need to tell that to some of the fans here. Most of them are supporting Keegan far more than they are supporting their team.

[Guest toonlass]

I hope KK's enjoying his time in Spain. Maybe Freddie Shepherd will give him the manager's job if he buys Mallorca?

 

Where's the confirmation that he's even in Spain?

 

And why is it an issue if he is? He no longer manages this club.

 

You need to tell that to some of the fans here. Most of them are supporting Keegan far more than they are supporting their team.

 

I think you'll find they're supporting Keegan far more than they're supporting the owners of the club. I haven't encountered anyone who isn't supporting the team in the this.

 

Spot on!

[TRon]

I hope KK's enjoying his time in Spain. Maybe Freddie Shepherd will give him the manager's job if he buys Mallorca?

 

Where's the confirmation that he's even in Spain?

 

And why is it an issue if he is? He no longer manages this club.

 

You need to tell that to some of the fans here. Most of them are supporting Keegan far more than they are supporting their team.

 

I think you'll find they're supporting Keegan far more than they're supporting the owners of the club. I haven't encountered anyone who isn't supporting the team in this.

 

You are right, I am going to support the next owners of the club seeing as these ones are shite. A geordie consortium of businessmen who have put together a £300m bid to buy Ashley out.

[Big Geordie]

Neil Farrington

[Baggio]

To be fair the squad's been strengthened as well:

 

Out:-

 

James Milner

Abdoulaye Faye

Emre

Ramage

Carr

 

In-

 

Gutierrez

Guthrie

Bassong

Coloccini

Xisco

Gonzales

 

Even in pure numbers we've strengthened.  But consider Emre almost never played, Carr never played at all and Ramage was useless the squad has been strengthened quite a bit.  Still it could have been so much better had we spent a bit of money on left back and right back cover.

 

Rozenthal and Triosi also gone - so down in numbers really.  I've said before that we have in real terms strengethend by replacing the deadwood and most of the sick notes, but the lack of full back cover is crucifying the team at the minute - we either play a reserve centre half there or a left winger who does'nt really want to be here, never mind playing out of position.

 

Plus, any team that in most likelyhood has the name Nicky Butt as one of the first on the team sheet is really going to struggle.

 

Triosi didn't even play for the first team, that's like including Nile Ranger ffs.

 

 

[Guest Edd]

I hope KK's enjoying his time in Spain. Maybe Freddie Shepherd will give him the manager's job if he buys Mallorca?

 

Where's the confirmation that he's even in Spain?

 

And why is it an issue if he is? He no longer manages this club.

 

You need to tell that to some of the fans here. Most of them are supporting Keegan far more than they are supporting their team.

 

I think you'll find they're supporting Keegan far more than they're supporting the owners of the club.  I haven't encountered anyone who isn't supporting the team in this.

 

Well apart from those that still plan on boycotting games.  That's certainly not supporting the team.

[TRon]

Ashley still appears to be intent on selling the club and one former Premier League manager who has spoken to The Journal believes the Newcastle manager’s job is widely regarded as a poisoned chalice.

 

He said: “Nobody wants to go there, I haven’t spoken to or heard about a single manager who is interested in the job. Who on earth would want a job like that one?

 

“The owner wants to sell, the supporters are protesting the whole time. The squad is small and the transfer window doesn’t open again for another three months.

 

“It’s a tough job at any time, let alone now. Newcastle is a special club, but it isn’t a club that is attractive to manage any more. The fans don’t give anyone time to achieve anything there and the people who run it have obviously made some mistakes and want to get out. It looks like a complete mess.”

 

From today's Journal. Don't think the vocal protests will have made us a more attractive proposition for the future, but time will tell.