Tony Jimenez leaves the club

[Mick]

 

It's not beyond the bounds of possibility that Souness told the truth about Luque's signing - you can have any structure on the planet but if a chairman decides he wants to buy someone that's it.

 

 

 

If Souness was telling the truth then no, a DoF would have made no difference.

[quayside]

 

It's not beyond the bounds of possibility that Souness told the truth about Luque's signing - you can have any structure on the planet but if a chairman decides he wants to buy someone that's it.

 

 

 

If Souness was telling the truth then no, a DoF would have made no difference.

 

To be fair to Souness (can't believe I just typed those words) Luque's own version of how he got transferred from Deportivo would suggest that he was Shepherd's signing.

[UV]

I'm guessing his point is, if you're a Chairman/Owner why would you trust a DoF to sign players if you don't think you can trust your manager too?

If you can't trust your own judgement by giving the Manager the money to spend how can you trust your own judgement in recruiting a DoF to buy the players instead?

 

Precisely. A poor DoF is just as likely to buy badly as a poor manager is.

All you do by putting an extra level of management in is increase the likelihood that the player will not be successful (the FTC may not rate the player, may not play him in the role bought for, the player knows the FTC is not in charge of buying/selling him so doesn't have his full respect/isn't sure the FTC wants him at all, etc, etc), increase the money spent on team management, and increase management staff turnover when it goes wrong and you need a scapegoat or when the large egos which go with the territory clash.

 

 

It's not beyond the bounds of possibility that Souness told the truth about Luque's signing - you can have any structure on the planet but if a chairman decides he wants to buy someone that's it.

 

 

 

If Souness was telling the truth then no, a DoF would have made no difference.

 

If Souness was telling the truth then Shepherd was simply acting as a DoF. He has more relevant experience for the role than Dennis Wise after all. So is Luque's signing a  for the DoF system?

 

 

Souness' first major signing was an expensive experienced international central defender from a foreign league with weaknesses in his existing game which would be exposed in the Premiership if he couldn't adapt (so poor scouting / risky purchase for the money).

 

The system's first major signing couldn't have been more similar in circumstances if you'd tried.

[TRon]

I'm guessing his point is, if you're a Chairman/Owner why would you trust a DoF to sign players if you don't think you can trust your manager too?

If you can't trust your own judgement by giving the Manager the money to spend how can you trust your own judgement in recruiting a DoF to buy the players instead?

 

Precisely. A poor DoF is just as likely to buy badly as a poor manager is.

All you do by putting an extra level of management in is increase the likelihood that the player will not be successful (the FTC may not rate the player, may not play him in the role bought for, the player knows the FTC is not in charge of buying/selling him so doesn't have his full respect/isn't sure the FTC wants him at all, etc, etc), increase the money spent on team management, and increase management staff turnover when it goes wrong and you need a scapegoat or when the large egos which go with the territory clash.

 

 

It's not beyond the bounds of possibility that Souness told the truth about Luque's signing - you can have any structure on the planet but if a chairman decides he wants to buy someone that's it.

 

 

 

If Souness was telling the truth then no, a DoF would have made no difference.

 

If Souness was telling the truth then Shepherd was simply acting as a DoF. He has more relevant experience for the role than Dennis Wise after all. So is Luque's signing a  for the DoF system?

 

 

Souness' first major signing was an expensive experienced international central defender from a foreign league with weaknesses in his existing game which would be exposed in the Premiership if he couldn't adapt (so poor scouting / risky purchase for the money).

 

The system's first major signing couldn't have been more similar in circumstances if you'd tried.

 

So you are saying the old board operated with a DoF in everything but name only? So we can attribute good or bad signings to Freddie Shepherd during his term as Chairman is that correct?

[Mick]

 

If Souness was telling the truth then Shepherd was simply acting as a DoF. He has more relevant experience for the role than Dennis Wise after all. So is Luque's signing a  for the DoF system?

 

 

Souness' first major signing was an expensive experienced international central defender from a foreign league with weaknesses in his existing game which would be exposed in the Premiership if he couldn't adapt (so poor scouting / risky purchase for the money).

 

The system's first major signing couldn't have been more similar in circumstances if you'd tried.

 

To be fair to Dennis Wise, he hasn't brought in another Luque so I see a bit of a difference, I also see a difference between Boumsong and Coloccini, even if you don't.  It's nice to see you compare a player who flopped from day 1 against Yeading with another who has played well more often than not.

[UV]

 

So you are saying the old board operated with a DoF in everything but name only? So we can attribute good or bad signings to Freddie Shepherd during his term as Chairman is that correct?

 

No, I'm saying if it's true that he bought Luque and not Souness, then he acted as a DoF in that instance. He certainly didn't act as a DoF all the time, we know that.

 

If it is true, then it's certainly a black mark on Shepherd's record IMO, but I guess those in favour of having a DoF would just say he was ahead of his time. 

 

 

 

If Souness was telling the truth then Shepherd was simply acting as a DoF. He has more relevant experience for the role than Dennis Wise after all. So is Luque's signing a  for the DoF system?

 

 

Souness' first major signing was an expensive experienced international central defender from a foreign league with weaknesses in his existing game which would be exposed in the Premiership if he couldn't adapt (so poor scouting / risky purchase for the money).

 

The system's first major signing couldn't have been more similar in circumstances if you'd tried.

 

To be fair to Dennis Wise, he hasn't brought in another Luque so I see a bit of a difference, I also see a difference between Boumsong and Coloccini, even if you don't.  It's nice to see you compare a player who flopped from day 1 against Yeading with another who has played well more often than not.

 

Ashley's too stingy to allow 2 big signings in one year so it's not really a fair comparison.

 

I stand by what I said about Coloccini. He has weaknesses in this league which will cost goals if he does not adapt. For the price we paid, it's a big risk hoping that he can adapt. That's not a sign of good scouting IMO.

 

Having a DoF doesn't magically improve the quality or the suitability of the players you sign, it just clouds the issue of whose fault it is if they don't perform.

[Mick]

 

Ashley's too stingy to allow 2 big signings in one year so it's not really a fair comparison.

 

I stand by what I said about Coloccini. He has weaknesses in this league which will cost goals if he does not adapt. For the price we paid, it's a big risk hoping that he can adapt. That's not a sign of good scouting IMO.

 

Having a DoF doesn't magically improve the quality or the suitability of the players you sign, it just clouds the issue of whose fault it is if they don't perform.

 

We'll just have to see how Coloccini gets on, I see a lot more in him than I ever saw in Boumsong, I'm sure you're just being extreme for the sake of it.  As for the DoF, I'd rather have had him report to Keegan as I think we've done well in the last window but could have done with a couple of quality signings to take us into a European qualification position.  Something which was probably beyond us, even with Keegan at the club and the current squad.

[TRon]

 

So you are saying the old board operated with a DoF in everything but name only? So we can attribute good or bad signings to Freddie Shepherd during his term as Chairman is that correct?

 

No, I'm saying if it's true that he bought Luque and not Souness, then he acted as a DoF in that instance. He certainly didn't act as a DoF all the time, we know that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

So you are saying that if Shepherd acted as a DoF it was only for a little bit, and once only...not when he bought Bowyer, Carr and Kluivert possibly during Sir Bobby Robson's reign, allegedly without his knowledge?

 

If it is true, then it's certainly a black mark on Shepherd's record IMO, but I guess those in favour of having a DoF would just say he was ahead of his time. 

 

 

Most people just thought he was a bit thick regarding football and should leave football matters to the experts he appointed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[NE5]

 

Ashley's too stingy to allow 2 big signings in one year so it's not really a fair comparison.

 

I stand by what I said about Coloccini. He has weaknesses in this league which will cost goals if he does not adapt. For the price we paid, it's a big risk hoping that he can adapt. That's not a sign of good scouting IMO.

 

Having a DoF doesn't magically improve the quality or the suitability of the players you sign, it just clouds the issue of whose fault it is if they don't perform.

 

We'll just have to see how Coloccini gets on, I see a lot more in him than I ever saw in Boumsong, I'm sure you're just being extreme for the sake of it.  As for the DoF, I'd rather have had him report to Keegan as I think we've done well in the last window but could have done with a couple of quality signings to take us into a European qualification position .  Something which was probably beyond us, even with Keegan at the club and the current squad.

 

mackems.gif

 

so what exactly is your ambition here ? 15th like in the good old days of Mckeag etc or the top positions as in what Ashley's predecessors achieved rather more than him or the great days of Ashley who never looked like getting either ?

 

How can you say you are happy with the window then concede you are happy to be in no mans land ......... keep up the rubbish you're getting even better for a laugh than ever.

[Mick]

 

Ashley's too stingy to allow 2 big signings in one year so it's not really a fair comparison.

 

I stand by what I said about Coloccini. He has weaknesses in this league which will cost goals if he does not adapt. For the price we paid, it's a big risk hoping that he can adapt. That's not a sign of good scouting IMO.

 

Having a DoF doesn't magically improve the quality or the suitability of the players you sign, it just clouds the issue of whose fault it is if they don't perform.

 

We'll just have to see how Coloccini gets on, I see a lot more in him than I ever saw in Boumsong, I'm sure you're just being extreme for the sake of it.  As for the DoF, I'd rather have had him report to Keegan as I think we've done well in the last window but could have done with a couple of quality signings to take us into a European qualification position .  Something which was probably beyond us, even with Keegan at the club and the current squad.

 

mackems.gif

 

so what exactly is your ambition here ? 15th like in the good old days of Mckeag etc or the top positions as in what Ashley's predecessors achieved rather more than him or the great days of Ashley who never looked like getting either ?

 

How can you say you are happy with the window then concede you are happy to be in no mans land ......... keep up the rubbish you're getting even better for a laugh than ever.

 

[NE5]

 

So you're assuming that a DoF, simply because of their job title, wont waste money on bad players?

 

 

I'd assume that a DoF would have scouted Luque and not bought him because Michael Robinson thought he might be worth a punt.

 

unless Micheal Robinson was the DOF, which you clearly have decided to support rather than criticise your blue eyed boy who hasn't embarrassed you. 

 

 

[NE5]

 

Ashley's too stingy to allow 2 big signings in one year so it's not really a fair comparison.

 

I stand by what I said about Coloccini. He has weaknesses in this league which will cost goals if he does not adapt. For the price we paid, it's a big risk hoping that he can adapt. That's not a sign of good scouting IMO.

 

Having a DoF doesn't magically improve the quality or the suitability of the players you sign, it just clouds the issue of whose fault it is if they don't perform.

 

We'll just have to see how Coloccini gets on, I see a lot more in him than I ever saw in Boumsong, I'm sure you're just being extreme for the sake of it.  As for the DoF, I'd rather have had him report to Keegan as I think we've done well in the last window but could have done with a couple of quality signings to take us into a European qualification position .  Something which was probably beyond us, even with Keegan at the club and the current squad.

 

mackems.gif

 

so what exactly is your ambition here ? 15th like in the good old days of Mckeag etc or the top positions as in what Ashley's predecessors achieved rather more than him or the great days of Ashley who never looked like getting either ?

 

How can you say you are happy with the window then concede you are happy to be in no mans land ......... keep up the rubbish you're getting even better for a laugh than ever.

 

 

no response then ?

 

I wonder why  mackems.gif

[Mick]

 

unless Micheal Robinson was the DOF, which you clearly have decided to support rather than criticise your blue eyed boy who hasn't embarrassed you. 

 

 

 

I have criticised Ashley if that is who you're on about, I guess that doesn't sit well with your agenda though.

 

[NE5]

I'm guessing his point is, if you're a Chairman/Owner why would you trust a DoF to sign players if you don't think you can trust your manager too?

If you can't trust your own judgement by giving the Manager the money to spend how can you trust your own judgement in recruiting a DoF to buy the players instead?

 

Precisely. A poor DoF is just as likely to buy badly as a poor manager is.

All you do by putting an extra level of management in is increase the likelihood that the player will not be successful (the FTC may not rate the player, may not play him in the role bought for, the player knows the FTC is not in charge of buying/selling him so doesn't have his full respect/isn't sure the FTC wants him at all, etc, etc), increase the money spent on team management, and increase management staff turnover when it goes wrong and you need a scapegoat or when the large egos which go with the territory clash.

 

 

It's not beyond the bounds of possibility that Souness told the truth about Luque's signing - you can have any structure on the planet but if a chairman decides he wants to buy someone that's it.

 

 

 

If Souness was telling the truth then no, a DoF would have made no difference.

 

If Souness was telling the truth then Shepherd was simply acting as a DoF. He has more relevant experience for the role than Dennis Wise after all. So is Luque's signing a  for the DoF system?

 

 

Souness' first major signing was an expensive experienced international central defender from a foreign league with weaknesses in his existing game which would be exposed in the Premiership if he couldn't adapt (so poor scouting / risky purchase for the money).

 

The system's first major signing couldn't have been more similar in circumstances if you'd tried.

 

So you are saying the old board operated with a DoF in everything but name only? So we can attribute good or bad signings to Freddie Shepherd during his term as Chairman is that correct?

 

I don't recall any manager leaving for reasons of being undermined by a DOF, or saying they lacked support and backing from the board. Do you ?

 

What are you and others like you going to make up next 

[NE5]

 

unless Micheal Robinson was the DOF, which you clearly have decided to support rather than criticise your blue eyed boy who hasn't embarrassed you. 

 

 

I have criticised Ashley if that is who you're on about, I guess that doesn't sit well with your agenda though.

 

 

I don't have any agenda. I was right about your blue eyed boy. Who has made a complete mess of a club that used to regularly qualify for europe, fill the stadium, and bring top players to the club. The first board that has done this in 50 years. Of course, I realise your "opinion" will be different.

 

Still, we didn't waste any money in the transfer window and had "a good window" didn't we, according to you, while we sit 2nd bottom of the table with a small squad and in serious danger of going back to where the board you slate rescued us.

 

[Mick]

 

Ashley's too stingy to allow 2 big signings in one year so it's not really a fair comparison.

 

I stand by what I said about Coloccini. He has weaknesses in this league which will cost goals if he does not adapt. For the price we paid, it's a big risk hoping that he can adapt. That's not a sign of good scouting IMO.

 

Having a DoF doesn't magically improve the quality or the suitability of the players you sign, it just clouds the issue of whose fault it is if they don't perform.

 

We'll just have to see how Coloccini gets on, I see a lot more in him than I ever saw in Boumsong, I'm sure you're just being extreme for the sake of it.  As for the DoF, I'd rather have had him report to Keegan as I think we've done well in the last window but could have done with a couple of quality signings to take us into a European qualification position .  Something which was probably beyond us, even with Keegan at the club and the current squad.

 

mackems.gif

 

so what exactly is your ambition here ? 15th like in the good old days of Mckeag etc or the top positions as in what Ashley's predecessors achieved rather more than him or the great days of Ashley who never looked like getting either ?

 

How can you say you are happy with the window then concede you are happy to be in no mans land ......... keep up the rubbish you're getting even better for a laugh than ever.

 

 

no response then ?

 

I wonder why  mackems.gif

 

You don't need to wonder about the response, you replied to it.

[Mick]

 

I don't have any agenda. I was right about your blue eyed boy. Who has made a complete mess of a club that used to regularly qualify for europe, fill the stadium, and bring top players to the club. The first board that has done this in 50 years. Of course, I realise your "opinion" will be different.

 

Still, we didn't waste any money in the transfer window and had "a good window" didn't we, according to you, while we sit 2nd bottom of the table with a small squad and in serious danger of going back to where the board you slate rescued us.

 

 

[NE5]

 

Ashley's too stingy to allow 2 big signings in one year so it's not really a fair comparison.

 

I stand by what I said about Coloccini. He has weaknesses in this league which will cost goals if he does not adapt. For the price we paid, it's a big risk hoping that he can adapt. That's not a sign of good scouting IMO.

 

Having a DoF doesn't magically improve the quality or the suitability of the players you sign, it just clouds the issue of whose fault it is if they don't perform.

 

We'll just have to see how Coloccini gets on, I see a lot more in him than I ever saw in Boumsong, I'm sure you're just being extreme for the sake of it.  As for the DoF, I'd rather have had him report to Keegan as I think we've done well in the last window but could have done with a couple of quality signings to take us into a European qualification position .  Something which was probably beyond us, even with Keegan at the club and the current squad.

 

mackems.gif

 

so what exactly is your ambition here ? 15th like in the good old days of Mckeag etc or the top positions as in what Ashley's predecessors achieved rather more than him or the great days of Ashley who never looked like getting either ?

 

How can you say you are happy with the window then concede you are happy to be in no mans land ......... keep up the rubbish you're getting even better for a laugh than ever.

 

 

no response then ?

 

I wonder why  mackems.gif

 

You don't need to wonder about the response, you replied to it.

 

As I said, no response.

 

I wonder why  mackems.gif

[NE5]

 

I don't have any agenda. I was right about your blue eyed boy. Who has made a complete mess of a club that used to regularly qualify for europe, fill the stadium, and bring top players to the club. The first board that has done this in 50 years. Of course, I realise your "opinion" will be different.

 

Still, we didn't waste any money in the transfer window and had "a good window" didn't we, according to you, while we sit 2nd bottom of the table with a small squad and in serious danger of going back to where the board you slate rescued us.

 

 

 

no response again.

 

mackems.gif

 

You would love to prove me wrong wouldn't you  mackems.gif Simple fact is though, those silly replies are because you can't, you know it, and so does everybody else.

 

You'd get more credibility if you just admitted it.

 

 

[Dave]

Another thread down the toilet.

 

Great work boys.