Mike Ashley: "I've loved owning Newcastle"

[Rich]

I wonder if City fans are blaming the Abu Dhabi blokes at the minute.

 

Afterall, on the transfer deadline day they signed someone above the manager's head, and are currently just 2 points above the relegation zone.

 

the manager didnt say "no" to robinho, and thats a crucial difference. i dont think keegan wouldve said no either. had the abu dhabi fella spenT what was left of the budget on a player hughes felt wasnt good enough then we'd hae a similar situation. though even bringing in players their way can cause problems as the manager has to assemble a team with players given to him, rather than with players he has individually pinpointed to fit into a system.

 

While it would be nice to be bankrolled in the way City are, as you say it's hardly ideal when you've got players coming in that the manager may not necessarily want but then has to fit in anyway in order to appease his higher-ups. I'm not sure I'd be comfortable if I was a City fan, and I'd assume the sensible ones aren't - especially with the position they're in right now.

 

At the end of the day, I still firmly believe the manager should have the final say on everything IF the finances are stable enough (i.e. if a player doesn't NEED to be sold to stave off financial turmoil, etc.)

[johnnypd]

I find that Sunderland comparison fairly laughable with the amount of piss-taking that gets done about their "£70m wasted". You can't have it both ways man, you want money to be spent on quality players, not just money spent for the sake of spending it.

 

that's where appointing a good manager comes in, i'd think. similar to sunderland we wasted a lot of money under souness, though at least they have had some tangible on field improvement, cisse and jones is a fair bit better than whatever nomarks were upfront for them when they got promoted. spending the money wasnt the problem, the problem was having a shit manager spend it. had we appointed a good manager that money couldve done wonders for us. we can only dream of keegan having had such backing, and seeing whered we'd be as a result 

[Rich]

I find that Sunderland comparison fairly laughable with the amount of piss-taking that gets done about their "£70m wasted". You can't have it both ways man, you want money to be spent on quality players, not just money spent for the sake of spending it.

 

that's where appointing a good manager comes in, i'd think. similar to sunderland we wasted a lot of money under souness, though at least they have had some tangible on field improvement, cisse and jones is a fair bit better than whatever nomarks were upfront for them when they got promoted. spending the money wasnt the problem, the problem was having a shit manager spend it. had we appointed a good manager that money couldve done wonders for us.

 

Aye, again I can't disagree with the theory there. Speculation again though, innit?

[Mick]

 

Again though I'd say if he wasn't able or willing to see this coming (particularly when employing someone like Kevin Keegan) then he's seriously misguided. The fans were bound to be majorly pissed off about something at some point, that's what tends to happen in football.

 

I didn't see it coming and I've been going to games since the late 60's.

[Dave]

 

Again though I'd say if he wasn't able or willing to see this coming (particularly when employing someone like Kevin Keegan) then he's seriously misguided. The fans were bound to be majorly pissed off about something at some point, that's what tends to happen in football.

 

I didn't see it coming and I've been going to games since the late 60's.

 

You didn't think the fans would kick off if it came out (true or otherwise) that Keegan had walked out due to people like Dennis Wise going above his head on transfer dealings?

[Rich]

 

Again though I'd say if he wasn't able or willing to see this coming (particularly when employing someone like Kevin Keegan) then he's seriously misguided. The fans were bound to be majorly pissed off about something at some point, that's what tends to happen in football.

 

I didn't see it coming and I've been going to games since the late 60's.

 

Honestly?

 

There was massive worry when Wise/Jimenez/Vetere were brought in as people rightly realised that it was going to lead to problems with Keegan. There was continued worry (on NUFC.com and on here, etc.) when it appeared Keegan had very little input into the negotiations/signings of players, further than just naming them/sanctioning them.

 

I was personally skeptical, but as usual I hoped it would work and believed it could, which as always proved to be my downfall. When you tend to hope for the best/look on the bright side with this club, you tend to get kicked in the bollocks. Over and over again.

 

Everyone's worst fears were eventually realised, but it's hard to say it was a complete shock when it happened how it happened and the reaction, in particular, was completely expected.

[johnnypd]

I find that Sunderland comparison fairly laughable with the amount of piss-taking that gets done about their "£70m wasted". You can't have it both ways man, you want money to be spent on quality players, not just money spent for the sake of spending it.

 

that's where appointing a good manager comes in, i'd think. similar to sunderland we wasted a lot of money under souness, though at least they have had some tangible on field improvement, cisse and jones is a fair bit better than whatever nomarks were upfront for them when they got promoted. spending the money wasnt the problem, the problem was having a shit manager spend it. had we appointed a good manager that money couldve done wonders for us.

 

Aye, again I can't disagree with the theory there. Speculation again though, innit?

 

nothing is certain, but i think the basic premise of top manager + funds has a fair chance at success. better than shit manager + funds or even top manager + little funds. canny discussion anyway, off to bed now. 

[Rich]

I find that Sunderland comparison fairly laughable with the amount of piss-taking that gets done about their "£70m wasted". You can't have it both ways man, you want money to be spent on quality players, not just money spent for the sake of spending it.

 

that's where appointing a good manager comes in, i'd think. similar to sunderland we wasted a lot of money under souness, though at least they have had some tangible on field improvement, cisse and jones is a fair bit better than whatever nomarks were upfront for them when they got promoted. spending the money wasnt the problem, the problem was having a shit manager spend it. had we appointed a good manager that money couldve done wonders for us.

 

Aye, again I can't disagree with the theory there. Speculation again though, innit?

 

nothing is certain, but i think the basic premise of top manager + funds has a fair chance at success. better than shit manager + funds or even top manager + little funds. canny discussion anyway, off to bed now. 

 

Night night. Good idea as well. Was planning on being asleep by midnight myself. This fucking place.

[ChezGiven]

I just think its hilarious that everyone who has been involved in the club for the last 16 years who isnt Keegan or Robson is a cunt. A thick / fat cunt at that.

 

Souness, Dalglish, Gullit, Roeder, Allardyce, Shepherd, Ashley; everyone of them cunts apparently. Unless you take us to the top of the league you're a cunt.

 

Well said Rich btw, spot on.

 

 

 

[Mick]

 

You didn't think the fans would kick off if it came out (true or otherwise) that Keegan had walked out due to people like Dennis Wise going above his head on transfer dealings?

 

It happened so quick, it's not as if he could have planned for it.  I did see it coming but that was as it was happening rather than before it kicked off.

[Rich]

I just think its hilarious that everyone who has been involved in the club for the last 16 years who isnt Keegan or Robson is a cunt. A thick / fat cunt at that.

 

Souness, Dalglish, Gullit, Roeder, Allardyce, Shepherd, Ashley; everyone of them cunts apparently. Unless you take us to the top of the league you're a cunt.

 

Well said Rich btw, spot on.

 

You missed Kinnear, who I'm as guilty of as any for labelling in the way you suggest as it does appear that you're either a cunt or a messiah, you're not wrong there.

 

You're definitely a messiah by that token, though

[Optimistic Nut]

 

Again though I'd say if he wasn't able or willing to see this coming (particularly when employing someone like Kevin Keegan) then he's seriously misguided. The fans were bound to be majorly pissed off about something at some point, that's what tends to happen in football.

 

I didn't see it coming and I've been going to games since the late 60's.

 

Honestly?

 

There was massive worry when Wise/Jimenez/Vetere were brought in as people rightly realised that it was going to lead to problems with Keegan. There was continued worry (on NUFC.com and on here, etc.) when it appeared Keegan had very little input into the negotiations/signings of players, further than just naming them/sanctioning them.

 

I was personally skeptical, but as usual I hoped it would work and believed it could, which as always proved to be my downfall. When you tend to hope for the best/look on the bright side with this club, you tend to get kicked in the bollocks. Over and over again.

 

Everyone's worst fears were eventually realised, but it's hard to say it was a complete shock when it happened how it happened and the reaction, in particular, was completely expected.

 

If you were sceptical of it from day one, how come Keegan wasn't?

 

And if he was, why did he wait until September before acting?

[Mick]

 

Honestly?

 

There was massive worry when Wise/Jimenez/Vetere were brought in as people rightly realised that it was going to lead to problems with Keegan. There was continued worry (on NUFC.com and on here, etc.) when it appeared Keegan had very little input into the negotiations/signings of players, further than just naming them/sanctioning them.

 

I was personally skeptical, but as usual I hoped it would work and believed it could, which as always proved to be my downfall. When you tend to hope for the best/look on the bright side with this club, you tend to get kicked in the bollocks. Over and over again.

 

Everyone's worst fears were eventually realised, but it's hard to say it was a complete shock when it happened how it happened and the reaction, in particular, was completely expected.

 

Keegan and the others were appointed within days of each other and Keegan claimed that he knew that we would be bringing in the new structure and even claimed that he was given 3 names and had preferred Wise as DoF.  If the timing had been different then I might have been worried but Keegan was even asked something about him leaving last time and claiming something about the job not being what it said in the brochure, he said that this time he wasn't given a brochure.

 

When he was asked about how much he had been promised to spend he was always vague and claimed that he'd have to try and persuade Ashley to spend, I can't remember if he said that he hoped Ashley would fall in love with the team or something. 

[Rich]

Nut, you're an infuriating fucker sometimes.

 

You know I can't answer those questions because I'm not Kevin Keegan. I'll play along though...

 

For all we know he was skeptical, but took a similar approach and hoped he could make it work. That's one possibility. Perhaps on that fateful day in September the transfer window had closed and he realised it was never going to work because of how things turned out.

 

That's as good as I can do, because those questions were fairly daft.

[Rich]

 

Honestly?

 

There was massive worry when Wise/Jimenez/Vetere were brought in as people rightly realised that it was going to lead to problems with Keegan. There was continued worry (on NUFC.com and on here, etc.) when it appeared Keegan had very little input into the negotiations/signings of players, further than just naming them/sanctioning them.

 

I was personally skeptical, but as usual I hoped it would work and believed it could, which as always proved to be my downfall. When you tend to hope for the best/look on the bright side with this club, you tend to get kicked in the bollocks. Over and over again.

 

Everyone's worst fears were eventually realised, but it's hard to say it was a complete shock when it happened how it happened and the reaction, in particular, was completely expected.

 

Keegan and the others were appointed within days of each other and Keegan claimed that he knew that we would be bringing in the new structure and even claimed that he was given 3 names and had preferred Wise as DoF.  If the timing had been different then I might have been worried but Keegan was even asked something about him leaving last time and claiming something about the job not being what it said in the brochure, he said that this time he wasn't given a brochure.

 

When he was asked about how much he had been promised to spend he was always vague and claimed that he'd have to try and persuade Ashley to spend, I can't remember if he said that he hoped Ashley would fall in love with the team or something. 

 

Keegan didn't look/sound right to me for a good long while, if you know what I mean. There were a lot of times where I was struggling to believe if he actually believed what he was saying... I did wonder whether he was often saying things to defend his position/put pressure on the board to back him/in order to try and keep the peace.

 

I think a more accurate reflection of KK was the tirade after the Chelsea game (tirade may be a strong word) as a lot of pent-up frustration appeared to bubble out of him.

 

Despite the improvements on the field something didn't seem right and as the months went by things seemed to be getting more and more suspicious. People were skeptical enough to make it a prominent question (first one asked?) to Mort once upon a time as well.

 

I dunno. You'll remember me saying for a good few months prior to the KK walkout that things were a bit rotten, the posts will be on here somewhere.

[Optimistic Nut]

It's all supposition though, from both sides until the facts come out (if they ever do).

 

And I know those were pretty crap questions.

[Rich]

It's all supposition though, from both sides until the facts come out (if they ever do).

 

And I know those were pretty crap questions.

 

You're right like, with the first bit. It's infuriating. You just have to hope the truth will out when/if it goes to court.

[timnufc22]

It's all supposition though, from both sides until the facts come out (if they ever do).

 

And I know those were pretty crap questions.

 

 

In moving to clarify his role on Tyneside, Wise, 41, said: "A lot of people have got a little mixed up with the reason I'm here and we need to straighten that out quite quickly.

 

"I'm not here to be involved in the first team. I'm not here to manage. I'm here to help Kevin as much as possible with bringing young players through and also recommending certain players to him.

 

"He will say yes or no. He has the final word, no one else. I'm not going to do things like bring players in behind his back, I'm not into that. Everything that happens will be run past him and he'll say yes or no."

 

 

Thats clear then. No interference  ...

 

 

 

"I've been working desperately hard to find a way forward with the directors, but sadly that has not proved possible," Keegan said in a statement.

 

"It's my opinion that a manager must have the right to manage and that clubs should not impose upon any manager any player that he does not want."

 

 

... wait a minute, he is saying there that, in the end, there was interference? A Very strong accusation considering Dennis Wise's statement above, if a false accusation I'm assuming the club will be quick to deny a claim of such particular interference...

 

 

 

● It is a fact that he agreed not to talk to the media in relation to the acquisition or disposal of players.

 

● It is a fact that Kevin Keegan, as manager, had specific duties in that he was responsible for the training, coaching, selection and motivation of the team.

 

 

... I assumed wrong, they did not even deny nor respond to Kevin Keeagn's claim of interference, only stated that ^. And, in my opinion, that reply from the club is so, so telling.

[fredbob]

It's all supposition though, from both sides until the facts come out (if they ever do).

 

And I know those were pretty crap questions.

 

 

In moving to clarify his role on Tyneside, Wise, 41, said: "A lot of people have got a little mixed up with the reason I'm here and we need to straighten that out quite quickly.

 

"I'm not here to be involved in the first team. I'm not here to manage. I'm here to help Kevin as much as possible with bringing young players through and also recommending certain players to him.

 

"He will say yes or no. He has the final word, no one else. I'm not going to do things like bring players in behind his back, I'm not into that. Everything that happens will be run past him and he'll say yes or no."

 

 

Thats clear then. No interference  ...

 

 

 

"I've been working desperately hard to find a way forward with the directors, but sadly that has not proved possible," Keegan said in a statement.

 

"It's my opinion that a manager must have the right to manage and that clubs should not impose upon any manager any player that he does not want."

 

 

... wait a minute, he is saying there that, in the end, there was interference? A Very strong accusation considering Dennis Wise's statement above, if a false accusation I'm assuming the club will be quick to deny a claim of such particular interference...

 

 

 

● It is a fact that he agreed not to talk to the media in relation to the acquisition or disposal of players.

 

● It is a fact that Kevin Keegan, as manager, had specific duties in that he was responsible for the training, coaching, selection and motivation of the team.

 

 

... I assumed wrong, they did not even deny nor respond to Kevin Keeagn's claim of interference, only stated that ^. And, in my opinion, that reply from the club is so, so telling.

 

That is brand new information.

[Rich]

No need, fredbob, thought it was a decent response with some obvious effort behind it myself. Can't hurt to remind people of quotes from the various people involved at different times, surely?

[timnufc22]

Well I dont understand some of the confusion?

 

'we'll find out the truth'... do people think Keegan is telling lie's when he said he wasnt in control? And if he was, surley the club would have flat out denied it! But they realsed statements to practically back up Keegans comments!

 

And if you say 'ah Keegan agreed to everything in Jan', but quite clearly Wise's statement contradicts that.

 

Its a disgraceful, shambolic way to treat a manager, and such a massive waste.

[fredbob]

No need, fredbob, thought it was a decent response with some obvious effort behind it myself. Can't hurt to remind people of quotes from the various people involved at different times, surely?

 

Sorry, its just like banging your head against a brick wall sometimes, thoses quotes are completely irrelvanent, we know thatKeegan has been undermined thats a fact, the 2 sides arent arguing this point which those quotes would back up.

 

I feel the debate should of moved onto why he was undermined? Was it a simple case of him never having full control on transfers and was expected to accomodate any player the club decided to buy? (Thats seems to be the line alot of fans are taking) Or was it a case of him actually having full say on transfers but was unable to identify suitable targets that fit in with the transfer policy the club was trying to incorporate and therefore forced the clubs hand to act?

 

In my opinion theres evidence that would suggest that the latter explanation is accurate.

 

 

[Optimistic Nut]

And from what we hear, Keegan did have final say on the Gutierrez, Guthrie, Coloccini & Bassong transfers....here's a quote from Xisco the day after he signed...

 

 

When I flew in on Monday, the club presented me to Kevin Keegan.” “He talked to me in a bit of detail about his plans for the footballing development of the club.”

 

“That was an important moment for me in my decision to accept this incredible turn of events.” “I just can’t believe he won’t be there when I get back from international duty.”

 

So from that, he spoke to Keegan, who outlined the plans, and THEN he signed.

 

That leaves Nacho Gonzalez, which was a short-term last minute deal anyway from the sounds of it, and if other targets that Keegan did want weren't attainable, I'd say it's fair enough the scouts get someone in on his behalf when the alternative is no player at all.

 

[merlin]

'Ive loved owning Newcastle'....A pity the rest of us cannot share that sentiment apart from the fact that the club has(supposedly)less debt and Shepherd' empire is no more.

[Decky]

"loved", sell the club and make that quote REAL past tense you fat cunt. Honestly, boil my piss this lot